Colts passing game is a joke

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, OffensivelyPC said:

We've got Jacoby for another year.  If Tua's the guy, they're saying he's still a first round talent, but now a 20s pick.  Even if he's not the guy and we miss the playoffs, which puts us at no higher than 20, Deshaun Watson and Pat Mahomes were acquired by teams drafting in the late 20s for what amounted to their 2017 first and a future first.  

 

We'll be fine.  Probably won't even cost a future 1.  Ballard has drafted well enough in the later rounds that I'm not even concerned if he hits on the QB and it cost a future 1.  We need more than Jacoby. 

 Tua reminds me of Winston.  On top of that he's already had his share of injuries.  More to come in the NFL?  If he comes out I would be leary.  

[Nickster]

10 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

You'll see when some publish some all-22s, that there were plenty of open WRs... 

 

You can attack a zone. You attack it differently than man, but it's not like some impenetrable scheme.

 

And man or zone, they are one of the worst passing Ds in the league. And missing arguably their best DB, and 3 others playing banged up.

 

I meant the type of play calls.  Heck yeah you can torch a zone, but the QB has to be able to read quickly and ours can't do that.

[SteelCityColt]

7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

You'll see when some publish some all-22s, that there were plenty of open WRs... 

 

You can attack a zone. You attack it differently than man, but it's not like some impenetrable scheme.

 

And man or zone, they are one of the worst passing Ds in the league. And missing arguably their best DB, and 3 others playing banged up.

There is an adage that elite QBs chew zone up all day if they can’t identify the coverage and throw with anticipation as you know at what point in their route a receiver will be open. Obviously you do things around disgusting that coverage shell and mixing up blitzes but still. 
 

We were playing the 2nd string of a poor secondary that’s lost Watt and Clowney up front and couldn’t move the ball in the air. 

[Four2itus]

12 hours ago, cbear said:

not as much fun to watch, even when they win frankly.

No offense intended, but if I were to say that, it would feel like more of a me issue, than a Colts issue. 

[krunk]

Doyle was open many times.

[krunk]

So I'm wandering what adjustments we'll make against Tenn.  That game is no gimmee either. Brissett barely got out of that one alive last time. 

[Mr.Debonair]

26 minutes ago, Calmack said:

Who is coming back exactly? Funch? He alone wont make Brissett competent

 Funch and Parris Campbell. Campbell flashes when he plays but thats the biggest issue. He has been hurt far too much. 

[BigQungus]

14 hours ago, bravo4460 said:

JB is a complete game manager and check down artist.

 

I don’t understand why people cover for him so much.

 

So is Tom Brady.

 

Checkdowns and game managing wins games, even if he's not good

[Coffeedrinker]

14 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

The outrage police are out in full force....   

 

So I’ll keep it simple....   there’s still  a lot of football left to be played.   Nothing was decided tonight.   I still very much like our chances this year and in the future. 

I think the Colts were 6-5 last year after 11 games and made the playoffs.  So it's possible.  I like the direction the Colts are going and the future looks bright.

 

I do think it's funny that people are complaining about the Colts running too much, yet on their two TDs drives... 18 total plays, 17 runs.  On the non TD drives they were more 50/50 in run pass ratio.

 

I think all the Houston game did was show the Colts need a QB to be able to throw downfield.  The Colts had a great running game yesterday but sometimes that is not enough to win in the NFL.

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, krunk said:

 

Sorta seems like he's blaming Jacoby a little bit here.  The big plays he speaks of here could most likely only come from the QB.

 

JB and/or the WR core.

 

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

He's blaming JB and rightfully so for not executing better (missing open guys), but he also needs to take a look in the mirror and ask why he went the opposite direction of the game one game plan.

 

I'm going to watch every pass play, in All 22, both views, multiple times in slo-mo when it is released. But I asked someone what happens in this play-

 

Posted 2 hours ago (edited)

  3 hours ago, Shafty138 said:

There were enough times guys were open.  Yaboy can't read a defense or progress through his own reads on any given play.  It is what it is. 

 

I can't wait until they get the coaches film up on this game. Here is the 3rd down pass play from the Colts first drive, and he hasn't quit finished his drop, yet-

 

 

Any guess to what happens?

 

This-

 

 

Because this was what was happening downfield-

 

 

I'm going to scrutinize every play ( All 22 ) and assess every player, from Braden Smith to TY Hilton (including JB) for the failure to get any decent chunk passing plays.  If there were open guys downfield, I'll snap it with Snagit.  I have a feeling our guys practiced and ran  plays to get seperation in man coverage... throwing to a spot.  Their zone forced receivers to sit in a soft spot (if they even looked for one) and it wasn't where JB was expecting them to be. He was off aim even when he spotted a receiver.  It was enough off that the receiver often ended up on the ground too.  But I'll wait until i replay this with full field perspective.

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

No amount of skill players will make Jacoby Brissett a better quarterback, unfortunately that's not how it works. He still has to be able to diagnose and read a defense, lead receivers, throw guys open, put the ball in places where only his man can get it, no matter how good a receiver isn't open every play, in fact that's what makes some receivers great, their ability to win in contested catch situations. That is all null and void if your QB never makes the throw, or makes the throw seconds too late, in the NFL seconds matter and JB is just too slow in recognition and decisiveness. 

[shasta519]

11 minutes ago, krunk said:

Doyle was open many times.

 

His lack of involvement over the past few weeks is puzzling. He's not some dynamic threat...but he's steady...and reliable. And after putting up his best game of the year (granted it was only 61 yards)...he only seen 12 targets over the past three games.

 

I know they are running a lot more...but since there is virtually no downfield passing game...Doyle should be seeing 7-8 targets/game...even if that means giving him Ebron's targets...because Doyle is open a lot...and will pick up yardage.

[Blindside]

10 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

He's behind Jacoby Brissett and Brian Hoyer man, that's all you need to know. Frank Reich and Chris Ballard have been doing this their entire adult lives, and doing it well, you don't think they have the recognition to see if we have a starting QB already on the roster, on the practice squad? Seriously? Man, you guys are unreal. Same people that keep buying $30 worth of Powerball tickets every week, because "Somebody has to win". 

I didn't proclaim greatness if you read my post.  Coach brought him up over every other available qb to a team fighting for a playoff spot. It will take a disaster to happen for him to see the field but they see something. I think most here agree with their approach to this situation.  Let him sit for a year building trust then let him fully compete for starting or qb2 job year 2.  Know what you don't know. 

[cbear]

6 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

No offense intended, but if I were to say that, it would feel like more of a me issue, than a Colts issue. 

 

None taken and it is a me issue.  I still enjoy watching the Colts, but I've always been a passing guy, so yes, it was more fun watching Luck and Peyton.  Still set my dvr every Sunday though. That won't change. 

[shasta519]

2 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I think the Colts were 6-5 last year after 11 games and made the playoffs.  So it's possible.  I like the direction the Colts are going and the future looks bright.

 

I do think it's funny that people are complaining about the Colts running too much, yet on their two TDs drives... 18 total plays, 17 runs.  On the non TD drives they were more 50/50 in run pass ratio.

 

I think all the Houston game did was show the Colts need a QB to be able to throw downfield.  The Colts had a great running game yesterday but sometimes that is not enough to win in the NFL.

 

Completely different trajectories though. Luck was officially back after a slow start and playing like an MVP...and the schedule was a joke. Even when they were still <.500...I didn't see any reason why they couldn't run the table.

 

Instead, you have a passing offense (and QB) that is regressing...and a schedule that is a bit tougher.

 

But we will watch and hope they win out and some things can align. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

If the receiver is looking back at you and you still have not released the ball (on most routes) chances are you've already missed your passing window within the progression.

 

You've got to throw it right now!!  You're getting sacked in <1/2 second.
Where are you throwing it at this second in time? (it's the same play in question)

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Completely different trajectories though. Luck was officially back after a slow start and playing like an MVP...and the schedule was a joke. Even when they were still <.500...I didn't see any reason why they couldn't run the table.

 

Instead, you have a passing offense (and QB) that is regressing...and a schedule that is a bit tougher.

 

But we will watch and hope they win out and some things can align. 

Why are they regressing though. I think it should fair to say there is multiple reasons. Injuries are part of that.

[stitches]

1 minute ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

You've got to throw it right now!!  You're getting sacked in <1/2 second.
Where are you throwing it at this second in time? (it's the same play in question)

 

I was talking in general, not about this situation in particular. There are sacks that are unavoidable and not the fault of the QB. I have to see the play again, but it's possible this is one of them. 

[EastStreet]

29 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I meant the type of play calls.  Heck yeah you can torch a zone, but the QB has to be able to read quickly and ours can't do that.

yup. regardless, i think the play calling could have absolutely put JB in a better place to succeed even with his obvious struggles.

[SteelCityColt]

Just now, EastStreet said:

yup. regardless, i think the play calling could have absolutely put JB in a better place to succeed even with his obvious struggles.

 

Coaching/Playcalling is also showing really concerning signs of regression. 

[Luck 4 president]

14 minutes ago, BigQungus said:

 

So is Tom Brady.

 

Checkdowns and game managing wins games, even if he's not good

Difference is Tom goes through progressions first. If everyone is covered then his check down guy likely has tons of room to run. Jacoby doesn’t go through his progressions and will check it down to someone who is covered. Tom (maybe not this year) would rip apart any zone defense he faced. Jacoby just looked lost against a zone. 

[EastStreet]

31 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

There is an adage that elite QBs chew zone up all day if they can’t identify the coverage and throw with anticipation as you know at what point in their route a receiver will be open. Obviously you do things around disgusting that coverage shell and mixing up blitzes but still. 
 

We were playing the 2nd string of a poor secondary that’s lost Watt and Clowney up front and couldn’t move the ball in the air. 

 

It was truly a head scratcher of a gameplan and effort last night....

 

I was like the below from the opening moments.

 

[SteelCityColt]

1 minute ago, Luck 4 president said:

Difference is Tom goes through progressions first. If everyone is covered then his check down guy likely has tons of room to run. Jacoby doesn’t go through his progressions and will check it down to someone who is covered. Tom (maybe not this year) would rip apart any zone defense he faced. Jacoby just looked lost against a zone. 

 

Brady has been pretty vocal about how bad their O has been this year. He is also 42, I mean he's got to give the other guys a turn eventually right?

[SteelCityColt]

Just now, EastStreet said:

 

It was truly a head scratcher of a gameplan and effort last night....

 

I was like the below from the opening moments.

 

 

Thankfully (!) I had an early start and needed to be compos mentis so missed it live. Building up the mental strength to watch the replay.

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, Dingus McGirt said:

We have one he's on the practice squad, We have one he's on the practice squad, We have one he's on the practice squad, We have one he's on the practice squad.

 

No he's not, he's on the active roster now. No he's not, he's on the active roster now. No he's not, he's on the active roster now. No he's not, he's on the active roster now.

 

2 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Not only that, the picture is totally wihtout context.  It looks like they are still executing their first route.  

 

This was about a second or so before that pic was taken-

as above.

 

 

42 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

If only we had All 22....

 

They make that? 

 

Hopefully it's out soon (by tomorrow morning?). I'm interested to dive into this one, and will have Snagit and Imgur running in the background...

[SteelCityColt]

Just now, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

They make that? 

 

Hopefully it's out soon (by tomorrow morning?). I'm interested to dive into this one, and will have Snagit and Imgur running in the background...

 

Sometimes it's even All 23 when you hit the 12 men on the field penalty plays. 

[Four2itus]

1 hour ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I am so tired of hearing about Funch coming back. he has literally done nothing for the colts yet people on here act like we are getting prime Marvin Harrison back. I like the guy but damn let's wait and see he could be a total bust on the colts.

To me, it would be exactly like judging Jacoby, before he has at least a solid set of WR's. 

23 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

No amount of skill players will make Jacoby Brissett a better quarterback

I would say that the vast majority of QB's in NFL history, have been greatly aided by better skill players....which in the eyes of fans, makes them a better QB. 

[OffensivelyPC]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

 Tua reminds me of Winston.  On top of that he's already had his share of injuries.  More to come in the NFL?  If he comes out I would be leary.  

Ive got no opinion on Tua right now. I know he was considered a top3 pick and he got hurt. So he might be available to a team with a decent Qb sitch that can give him a year to develop.

 

For me, right off the bat, I wonder how he'll hold up to NFL combat or if not, will we neuter his effectiveness by protecting him.  Imagine Lamar Jackson, but teams not having to respect his ability to run. 

 

Ill review film on him in the offseason tho.

[EastStreet]

35 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

JB and/or the WR core.

 

 

I'm going to watch every pass play, in All 22, both views, multiple times in slo-mo when it is released. But I asked someone what happens in this play-

 

Posted 2 hours ago (edited)

  3 hours ago, Shafty138 said:

There were enough times guys were open.  Yaboy can't read a defense or progress through his own reads on any given play.  It is what it is. 

 

I can't wait until they get the coaches film up on this game. Here is the 3rd down pass play from the Colts first drive, and he hasn't quit finished his drop, yet-

 

 

Any guess to what happens?

 

This-

 

 

Because this was what was happening downfield-

 

 

I'm going to scrutinize every play ( All 22 ) and assess every player, from Braden Smith to TY Hilton (including JB) for the failure to get any decent chunk passing plays.  If there were open guys downfield, I'll snap it with Snagit.  I have a feeling our guys practiced and ran  plays to get seperation in man coverage... throwing to a spot.  Their zone forced receivers to sit in a soft spot (if they even looked for one) and it wasn't where JB was expecting them to be. He was off aim even when he spotted a receiver.  It was enough off that the receiver often ended up on the ground too.  But I'll wait until i replay this with full field perspective.

That was the only sack of the night right?

 

What I see in the downfield tweet pic.... 

 

1. All four pass catchers have at minimum 2 yards of separation.

2. The shallowest, guessing at TE, had 3 yards separation and looking back, 2 yards from the sticks. Should have been an easy completion and decent chance for the first down.

3. Right sideline - DB playing soft and 2.5 yards of cushion to the WR beyond the sticks. Comebacks and back shoulders play calls would absolutely eat that soft sheet up.

4. Right seam - WR is in back of the LB who is facing the QB, has 15-20 plus yards of open field in every direction around him, with the most (21 yards) open in front of him.

5. Left seam - looks like a TE perhaps going into a dig pattern after the clear out of #4 above, and will have wide open spaces in the middle of the field after the break.

[EastStreet]

31 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

Coaching/Playcalling is also showing really concerning signs of regression. 

 

I just don't get it. It's twilight zone stuff to me right now. The whole situation.

[EastStreet]

29 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Thankfully (!) I had an early start and needed to be compos mentis so missed it live. Building up the mental strength to watch the replay.

I've got it on my DVR, and going to do a rewatch with some beers tonight. 

I think they are doing replays all day on the NFL network too (for those that want to record). 

At least I can lubricate myself with a few tall beers this round... 

[Colts_Fan12]

24 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

To me, it would be exactly like judging Jacoby, before he has at least a solid set of WR's. 

I would say that the vast majority of QB's in NFL history, have been greatly aided by better skill players....which in the eyes of fans, makes them a better QB. 

oh yeah you're right we need pro bowlers at every slot!! good idea!! 

[ColtsBlueFL]

28 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

That was the only sack of the night right?

 

What I see in the downfield tweet pic.... 

 

1. All four pass catchers have at minimum 2 yards of separation.

2. The shallowest, guessing at TE, had 3 yards separation and looking back, 2 yards from the sticks. Should have been an easy completion and decent chance for the first down.

3. Right sideline - DB playing soft and 2.5 yards of cushion to the WR beyond the sticks. Comebacks and back shoulders play calls would absolutely eat that soft sheet up.

4. Right seam - WR is in back of the LB who is facing the QB, has 15-20 plus yards of open field in every direction around him, with the most (21 yards) open in front of him.

5. Left seam - looks like a TE perhaps going into a dig pattern after the clear out of #4 above, and will have wide open spaces in the middle of the field after the break.

 

By the downfield picture, JB was already going to the ground.  but if you threw early without feet set,

 

Congrats on your interception, or at minimum drilling your receiver in the back of his head; if you even got the pass off.

 

It was a 5 step drop from shotgun, His feet weren't even set to throw to Ebron (TE going to the flat), let alone the others. Braden essentially whiffed on a speed rush on the outside on what was essentially a 7 step type drop (5 from shotgun).  I'm replaying it over and over, in slo-mo and real time, from the NFL Game Pass condensed film file.  I'm waiting for all 22 so I can take snapshots of all players at same time for you, but it is easy to piece together now.

 

[OffensivelyPC]

3 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

By the downfield picture, JB was already going to the ground.  but if you threw early without feet set,

 

Congrats on your interception, or at minimum drilling your receiver in the back of his head; if you even got the pass off.

 

It was a 5 step drop from shotgun, His feet weren't even set to throw to Ebron (TE going to the flat), let alone the others. Braden essentially whiffed on a speed rush on the outside on what was essentially a 7 step type drop (5 from shotgun).  I'm replaying it over and over, in slo-mo and real time, from the NFL Game Pass condensed film file.  I'm waiting for all 22 so I can take snapshots of all players at same time for you, but it is easy to piece together now.

 

Well if you get sacked before your WRs even start to break, of course that's not anyones fault but the OL.  That stuff happens.  That's not really going ot be a knock on JB or the WR. Shame on anyone for using that to blame the WR.

[OffensivelyPC]

29 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I've got it on my DVR, and going to do a rewatch with some beers tonight. 

I think they are doing replays all day on the NFL network too (for those that want to record). 

At least I can lubricate myself with a few tall beers this round... 

Weird choice of words man.  But you do you brother!  lol

[VaAllDay757]

It's one thing I don't understand....why isn't the offense using more slant routes to get the wr some space??? The slant route is perfect for this offense but we rarely see it I don't get it

[SteelCityColt]

7 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

It's one thing I don't understand....why isn't the offense using more slant routes to get the wr some space??? The slant route is perfect for this offense but we rarely see it I don't get it

 

Slant routes typically:

Quick hitter (typically thrown under 1.5s from snap) 

Thrown with anticipation and timing 

 

Can you see why this might be a problem currently?

[ColtsBlueFL]

10 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

It's one thing I don't understand....why isn't the offense using more slant routes to get the wr some space??? The slant route is perfect for this offense but we rarely see it I don't get it

 

We are all (most of us) flummoxed right now.

[VaAllDay757]

1 minute ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Slant routes typically:

Quick hitter (typically thrown under 1.5s from snap) 

Thrown with anticipation and timing 

 

Can you see why this might be a problem currently?

How? It works 90% of the time unless we drops the ball

[stitches]

55 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

You've got to throw it right now!!  You're getting sacked in <1/2 second.
Where are you throwing it at this second in time? (it's the same play in question)

 

 

On the replay from the back camera(what Brissett is seeing) it shows TY getting open in the middle of the zone, but Braden gets beat WAY too quickly. If he holds the block for like... 0.2 second more...  and if Brissett had the anticipation(not sure  he could make that throw as quickly as that because he needs to throw it before TY is open) that's a 15 yards gain and 1st down. 

 

https://www.nfl.com/videos?id=10103061-7033-0000-0107-9237a969484b

 

This is not on Brissett, but IMO some elite QBs make that play - first step into the pocket to get yourself those extra 0.2 seconds and then throw with anticipation to the spot TY is going to end up at. It's really hard to blame it on Brissett though... he shouldn't expect Braden to get beat this badly and this quickly.

 

Look at this:

 

this is about when he needs to throw it... but he is busy trying to avoid Martin. Maybe the elite of the elite with pocket presence would start stepping up into the pocket a fraction of a second earlier and create themselves a throwing window, but IMO it's not fair to ask that of any QB, this is just a really bad play by Braden.