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Colts passing game is a joke


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9 minutes ago, jbaron04 said:

MVP qb don’t grow on trees it’s easier to have a good qb who takes care of football and surround him with great team than trying to fine MVP qb with nothing around him look at the luck era we was no better of with the MVP qb let’s build a great all around solid team and I think we will win a lot of games 

We don't need an MVP. Just someone more effective. There are plenty of QBs in the league who aren't MVP caliber, that are.

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Watching Brissett struggle even with Hilton in, I am inclined to say this game may have helped decide that he is not our future at QB. He simply holds the ball too long, doesn't provide any downfield threat to opposing defenses, and scrambles and checks down too often. Maybe the downfield threat issue is partially our WRs fault, or possibly Reich not designing them open on shorter routes that don't take as long to develop.  

 

Regardless, I believe a new QB will need to be brought in via the draft, preferably someone who can sit and learn for a year under Brissett. Possibly a target for Ballard would be Jordan Love in the 3rd round or so. 

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20 minutes ago, jbaron04 said:

We don’t need MVP qb we need Te with consistent hand (not ebron) better receiving deep threat or big body wr , some better corner back play and we will be fine , 

 

An MVP level QB would help a lot.  Ebron was much better with Luck at QB.  TY was back to his old self with Luck at QB.  A great QB makes everyone else play better.  

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Okay I like JB, but I'm not a fanboy. But let's look at the season so far not just one game. In the LAC game if our kicker makes a couple of PATs we win in regulation. It's hard to overcome 5 missed kicks. In fact JB led a pretty good late game drive for a score.

 

Oakland everybody looked bad

 

Pittsburgh JB effectively didn't play. Ditto Miami

 

Last night TY drops two passes that would have kept drives alive. Hines drops a pass that Troy Aikman figured would have gone for big yards with his speed. And on the one deep throw JB threw, Johnson cut off his route and the ball dropped harmlessly to the turf. If Johnson runs the route properly it may have been like Hopkins' first TD. Don't see how any of that can be blamed in JB

 

Now let's look at Houston. Fuller and Hopkins each make two phenomenal lay out catches. Fuller's and one of Hopkins' extend scoring drives, one of Hopkins' goes for the winning TD. None of those throws were great passes, but the were all great catches. Our misses were good passes right in the receiver's hands that were juggled and dropped.

 

So bottom line, 2 of our losses can't be blamed on JB he didn't even play. One was lost by a kicker who couldn't make PATs. And last night we had four well thrown passes that were either dropped or in the case of the long ball the receiver didn't run the right route. People are welcomed to their opinion, but to say we are 6-5 because our QB isn't good enough seems like a stretch to me. If he plays every game this season so far we are at least 8-3. If our HOF kicker could kick we would be 9-2. And if our receivers could hold onto the ball we might be 9-1. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, FRW said:

Okay I like JB, but I'm not a fanboy. But let's look at the season so far not just one game. In the LAC game if our kicker makes a couple of PATs we win in regulation. It's hard to overcome 5 missed kicks. In fact JB led a pretty good late game drive for a score.

 

Oakland everybody looked bad

 

Pittsburgh JB effectively didn't play. Ditto Miami

 

Last night TY drops two passes that would have kept drives alive. Hines drops a pass that Troy Aikman figured would have gone for big yards with his speed. And on the one deep throw JB threw, Johnson cut off his route and the ball dropped harmlessly to the turf. If Johnson runs the route properly it may have been like Hopkins' first TD. Don't see how any of that can be blamed in JB

 

Now let's look at Houston. Fuller and Hopkins each make two phenomenal lay out catches. Fuller's and one of Hopkins' extend scoring drives, one of Hopkins' goes for the winning TD. None of those throws were great passes, but the were all great catches. Our misses were good passes right in the receiver's hands that were juggled and dropped.

 

So bottom line, 2 of our losses can't be blamed on JB he didn't even play. One was lost by a kicker who couldn't make PATs. And last night we had four well thrown passes that were either dropped or in the case of the long ball the receiver didn't run the right route. People are welcomed to their opinion, but to say we are 6-5 because our QB isn't good enough seems like a stretch to me. If he plays every game this season so far we are at least 8-3. If our HOF kicker could kick we would be 9-2. And if our receivers could hold onto the ball we might be 9-1. 

 

 

Perfect.

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5 minutes ago, FRW said:

So bottom line, 2 of our losses can't be blamed on JB he didn't even play. One was lost by a kicker who couldn't make PATs. And last night we had four well thrown passes that were either dropped or in the case of the long ball the receiver didn't run the right route. People are welcomed to their opinion, but to say we are 6-5 because our QB isn't good enough seems like a stretch to me. If he plays every game this season so far we are at least 8-3. If our HOF kicker could kick we would be 9-2. And if our receivers could hold onto the ball we might be 9-1. 

 

You put together a good, insightful post.

 

However, it amazes me that people still think this conversation has anything to do with the Colts w/l record.

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A couple of interesting rid bits from Joel Erickson on his podcast this morning. Apparently after the game Reich had a long conversation with Jacoby in the locker room after the game. Zach pascal also was seen very upset and punched his locker and refused to talk. It’s pretty ridiculous he only had one target.

 

This was such a all around bad game by the entire offense. From TY drops to Johnson not finishing his route. To the bad QB play.

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20 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Exactly.  Most of our previous QBs looked great gunslinging themselves out of a hole they dug by first gunslinging interceptions.

 

Are you talking about Manning and Luck? Good Lord, Manning will go down as one of the top 5 QBs of all time. So he was a gunslinger who got himself in the hole all the time and you throw Luck in the same category? Ridiculous!

 

The team is being built differently, IMO.  I doubt that we will spend a lot of capital to get a gunslinging 1st round QB any time soon.  The point is to be in games at the end.  Not to be an offensive showpiece.

 

Our attendance sucks now. You think Irsay and the front office and the fans are going to put up with only be in games at the end. The point is to be ahead in the end and play exciting football. That is what attracts fan.

 

Yet, we can do better if we had better players, IMO.

 

Starting with the most important position on the field, the QB.

 

 

 

Last night, what player on the offense is the result of the highest capital investment by Ballard?

 

Nelson, a G.  Then Smith, a G/T.

 

Next is JB, a 3rd rounder.  Then there's Doyle, who is a checkdown TE who was a UDFA who earned a decent contract. 

 

Who were the playmakers?

 

  Ebron, with "only" a $5MM compensation level.  Then scrubs.

 

Doyle, former pro bowler

Ebron, 1st round-Pro bowler last year

Mack. leading rusher

Then you have 2 additional OL who were 1st rounders I would assume you wouldn't want him to replace as well as TY

I guess I don't quite understand the significance of 'highest capital investment'. Our offenses 

was 5th in the league last year in points scored 

 

If you want to go all in on trying to get the next Andrew Luck, we could move up to take the next college sensation.  What's his name ?  Is it Marcus Mariota, Sam Darnold, or Josh Rosen? (scarcasm)

 

I would take Sam Darnold behind this OL everyday and twice on Sunday

 

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4 minutes ago, MCurtis32 said:

pennington was much better at making decisions and reading defenses. His arm strenth was lacking.

 

I honestly think he is a less mobile version of Mariota.  Both are game managers that can't read defenses, hardly ever turn the ball over, have average QBRs, and have low average yards per completion.  However, Jacoby's average yards per game is even lower.

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1 hour ago, Shafty138 said:

There were enough times guys were open.  Yaboy can't read a defense or progress through his own reads on any given play.  It is what it is. 

 

I can't wait until they get the coaches film up on this game. Here is the 3rd down pass play from the Colts first drive, and he hasn't quit finished his drop, yet-

 

ZzINBQS.jpg

 

Any guess to what happens?

 

Quote

Reich knows this.... It's so bad, he's going with what our best chance is.  This crapshow run 1,2,3rd option offense is because he has ZERO confidence in Brissett.  We had an 18 play drive with 17 runs.... You will never convince me they believe in JB....he's just their only option.

Say what?

 

I heard Charlie Weis tell a story this morning. He said back in the day, the Steelers played only 2 defenses. 3 - 4 base, and dime. So they put in typiocal RB, 2 TE's, 2 WR.  They got the Steeler 3-4 base D. Then the \they spread out the RB and TE's. Ran 25 straight pass plays.  Got up a few scores.
Steelers finally adjust to their dime, they bring all the guys in tight and start pounding the rock on the ground.

 

Sometimes you just don't give up on something until 'they' adjust to stop it, then you (I assume the early 2000's Pats) readjust.  And he told this story referring to how the Colts were running effectively, yet still came out on one drive and threw it 3 times on a 3 and out.

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5 minutes ago, Thunderbolt said:

Time to trade up for a QB in the next draft. JB a nice guy, but not the answer to team success and future of this organization. 

Ballard has spent his entire time here rebuilding this team to where it is now very competitive and currently in a close division race.  Luck messed everything up but he traded for JB and gave him a new contract.  He might not be an all pro but he can win if he has a good supporting class.  I can see Ballard drafting a QB but trading up in the 1st rd to get one is something I can't envision.  Rookie QB's make rookie mistakes and rarely win out of the gate.  I think he thinks this team is very close right now and moving up to get a QB would be a risky maneuver that I don't see him making.  

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1 hour ago, bhougland said:

 

I would love this as I need to be able to mentally rule him out as an option as he looked very good in the preseason running the K-Gun offense.  Why shouldn't he?  He gets personal instruction from the man that ran it best (his Hall of Fame uncle).  However, he isn't Jim and has shown to be a knuckle head in his past.  That being said I want to see him play.

 

Will that happen?  Absolutely not.  I don't see Frank doing this as I think he would worry it would hurt JB's confidence and destroy his and CB's narrative about JB.  As a former QB, I have to think that deep down he knows that JB isn't the guy.  I want to see this organization take steps that lead us out of QB purgatory.  How many years did Tennessee waste with Mariota?  We already had years of our life wasted with the Pagano and Grigson extensions, do we have to do it with a QB as well?

You may be right....., my "gut" tells me you are.....

 

But.......  lets say it plays out that we miss playoffs and JB stays at same level, or regresses

 

Do we just not even try Kelly? And then just draft a QB in round one?......

 

To me.....  Id like to see if Kelly has any juice.......  BEFORE next years draft.

 

We arent going anywhere this year......  we are still to inconsistent, to make a run..... we play well one week, than lay an egg the next week

 

Why bother with having Kelly on the practice squad?  Why not just let him walk?

 

Walker can be the 3rd guy........

 

If you cant pass against teams that are playing 2nd and 3rd string DBs....... you have a problem

 

We have a problem

 

I hope its fixed with JB, (Im rooting for the guy to succeed) 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, FRW said:

Okay I like JB, but I'm not a fanboy. But let's look at the season so far not just one game. In the LAC game if our kicker makes a couple of PATs we win in regulation. It's hard to overcome 5 missed kicks. In fact JB led a pretty good late game drive for a score.

 

Oakland everybody looked bad

 

Pittsburgh JB effectively didn't play. Ditto Miami

 

Last night TY drops two passes that would have kept drives alive. Hines drops a pass that Troy Aikman figured would have gone for big yards with his speed. And on the one deep throw JB threw, Johnson cut off his route and the ball dropped harmlessly to the turf. If Johnson runs the route properly it may have been like Hopkins' first TD. Don't see how any of that can be blamed in JB

 

Now let's look at Houston. Fuller and Hopkins each make two phenomenal lay out catches. Fuller's and one of Hopkins' extend scoring drives, one of Hopkins' goes for the winning TD. None of those throws were great passes, but the were all great catches. Our misses were good passes right in the receiver's hands that were juggled and dropped.

 

So bottom line, 2 of our losses can't be blamed on JB he didn't even play. One was lost by a kicker who couldn't make PATs. And last night we had four well thrown passes that were either dropped or in the case of the long ball the receiver didn't run the right route. People are welcomed to their opinion, but to say we are 6-5 because our QB isn't good enough seems like a stretch to me. If he plays every game this season so far we are at least 8-3. If our HOF kicker could kick we would be 9-2. And if our receivers could hold onto the ball we might be 9-1. 

 

 

So what if the Colts were 9-1. this loss would have been as bad as the Dolphin loss. A quicker mind, a quicker release and quicker on his feet is all he lacks. Your answer might be on the practice squad? but, he has had problems in the past and does not attend church so we can't trust him at QB because why?  Lets just keep JB because?

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The question is will the Colts actually make a move, and if so for who?

 

Reich and Ballard are big character and emotional guys. They love Brissett for his leadership so it’s hard to imagine that they’d just give up on him so soon. They didn’t move on from Vinny, and you could point to some other players that they should have moved on from but haven’t. I’m convinced a move should be made but it won’t surprise me if it they don’t.

 

And who are you going to get? Hope Hebert falls because we know Ballard isn’t giving up early draft picks to move up in the 1st? Do you take a project like Jordan Love (who’s had a poor season this year) in the 2nd? Or maybe you take a steady Eddie like Jake From but based on what he’s asked to do at Georgia, there’s a chance you’re getting what you have in Brissett.

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An uninjured JB is more than a good enough QB for us, but not with that Frankenstein brace on his knee. Ever since he's been injured, JB has been off with his timing and hesitant to the point that he doesn't want to throw a pick. Our WRs are banged up and it didn't help that we didn't really have true practices during the short week. We are what we are ... and I don't think it will be good enough this year. If we get in the playoffs by some miracle, we will have to play BALT and/or NE away from home, and we will get embarrassed.

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22 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You put together a good, insightful post.

 

However, it amazes me that people still think this conversation has anything to do with the Colts w/l record.

well that's all that matters is what we have been told over and over 

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56 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Good luck finding  an upgrade where we will be drafting. 

We've got Jacoby for another year.  If Tua's the guy, they're saying he's still a first round talent, but now a 20s pick.  Even if he's not the guy and we miss the playoffs, which puts us at no higher than 20, Deshaun Watson and Pat Mahomes were acquired by teams drafting in the late 20s for what amounted to their 2017 first and a future first.  

 

We'll be fine.  Probably won't even cost a future 1.  Ballard has drafted well enough in the later rounds that I'm not even concerned if he hits on the QB and it cost a future 1.  We need more than Jacoby. 

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11 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

All Brissett has to do is lead this team to 21 points with a weakened Texans secondary. Despite Hilton dropping it twice, Brissett made little to no impact in this game against one of the easiest pass defenses of the year. Reich ran it so much because he knows Brissett is a bad QB and he doesn't trust him. Brissett proved him right Thursday. 129 yards and no tds Vs a banged up Texans secondary.

I would replace the word "bad" with the word "injured". When healthy, JB is not a bad QB.

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1 minute ago, Dr. T said:

I would replace the word "bad" with the word "injured". When healthy, JB is not a bad QB.

He's having the same issues now as he did when he was healthy.  

 

2 minutes ago, Stephen said:

So our wrs couldn't  get open versus zone from one of most injured secondaries in the league 

Or....Jacoby wasn't seeing them/throwing to them.

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20 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

You may be right....., my "gut" tells me you are.....

 

But.......  lets say it plays out that we miss playoffs and JB stays at same level, or regresses

 

Do we just not even try Kelly? And then just draft a QB in round one?......

 

To me.....  Id like to see if Kelly has any juice.......  BEFORE next years draft.

 

We arent going anywhere this year......  we are still to inconsistent, to make a run..... we play well one week, than lay an egg the next week

 

Why bother with having Kelly on the practice squad?  Why not just let him walk?

 

Walker can be the 3rd guy........

 

If you cant pass against teams that are playing 2nd and 3rd string DBs....... you have a problem

 

We have a problem

 

I hope its fixed with JB, (Im rooting for the guy to succeed) 

 

 

 

 

Oh I am with you, but I think this is more of a Bill Belichick type of move.  Our organization still publicly says that Vinny is still one of the best kickers in the league.  I just don't have confidence that they will take this step.

 

In fact, if JB gets injured late in the season and we were out of playoff contention, I still would anticipate that we march Hoyer out there to take the snaps.  This thought makes me sad.

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1 minute ago, Stephen said:

So our wrs couldn't  get open versus zone from one of most injured secondaries in the league 

I remember when we played the falcons. Rigley mentioned how he found it difficult to get open in the zone. I thought that was kind of interesting. Maybe it’s the WR being young. Without seeing the entire field it’s hard to tell.

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Just now, OffensivelyPC said:

He's having the same issues now as he did when he was healthy.  

I'm not sure about that. Do you have stats to back up this statement? The flaw that I saw with JB when he first joined us was that he had no touch. Everything was a laser beam, thrown as hard as possible. The coaches have clearly worked with him in that regard and this problem has improved a lot. I think that his problem now is that he can't plant and move properly with that clunky brace on this knee.

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17 minutes ago, Dr. T said:

An uninjured JB is more than a good enough QB for us, but not with that Frankenstein brace on his knee. Ever since he's been injured, JB has been off with his timing and hesitant to the point that he doesn't want to throw a pick. Our WRs are banged up and it didn't help that we didn't really have true practices during the short week. We are what we are ... and I don't think it will be good enough this year. If we get in the playoffs by some miracle, we will have to play BALT and/or NE away from home, and we will get embarrassed.

We might not make it that far the way we played  yesterday.  One and some if we make it.

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