Adam Vinatieri (Merge)

[bluebombers87]

20 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Now you're reaching.  Those kicks didn't lose us that game.  And they have nothing to do with our current record, either.

 

You can blame one loss on Vinny.  One.  That's it.  And he deserves criticism for that loss, but that's not a liability.

 

He gets credit for 5 wins, including his two game-winners.  

Also, this whole idea that I don’t think he’s the greatest is completely not true. I just am saying he’s a liability when he’s only making 75% of his kicks, which compared to his peers ranks him 22/32. I would and have said the same thing about manning his rookie season, and Luck when he struggled. But apparently not toeing the company line is verboten. 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

6 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Ah ok so it’s his fault when we win but when I cite a playoff loss, which was his last game prior to this season, it’s not. Yep, makes sense

 

He didn't lose that game.

 

Had he made all his kicks, we still would have lost.

 

If anything, Luck, the OLine, and the defense were liabilities in that game.

[bluebombers87]

Just now, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

He didn't lose that game.

 

Had he made all his kicks, we still would have lost.

 

If anything, Luck, the OLine, and the defense were liabilities in that game.

Just following your logic.

 

Saying he’s inconsistent isn’t saying he isn’t great. It isn’t saying he should be cut. It’s facing a reality that may be uncomfortable but is still a truth. Any coach would agree when they’re not in front of media. A kicker who is only making 75% of their kicks is a liability. If it weren’t true, we’d see a lot more kickers making those kicks have long careers. We don’t because teams don’t allow it for very long. I defy anyone to say the inverse is true.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

3 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

A kicker who is only making 75% of their kicks is a liability.

 

A kicker who wins you 5 out of every 6 games is not a liability.

[bluebombers87]

9 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

A kicker who wins you 5 out of every 6 games is not a liability.

Again, for the umpteenth time, an inconsistent kicker is a liability in this league.

 

Two things can be true at the same time, a kicker can be inconsistent but still kick game winning field goals. A kicker can help lose a game and help win a game. Doesn’t change the underlying fact he’s ranked 22/32 in the league. 
 

Would you be ok with the 22nd out of 32 in the league running backs just because they scored a go-ahead touchdown for the win? Would you be as complacent with any player who was ranked 22/32 in the league?

[Lucky Colts Fan]

2 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Would you be ok with the 22nd out of 32 in the league running backs just because they scored a go-ahead touchdown for the win? Would you be as complacent with any player who was ranked 22/32 in the league?

 

Yes.  Because of the bolded.

 

Remember Jerome Bettis at the end of his career when he didn't get many carries or yards?  All he did was score TDs to win games for the Steelers.

 

The ranking of players means diddly squat if the team is winning.  And Vinny has won us 5x more games than he lost for us this year.  So for the umpteenth time, he is not a liability as long as he keeps winning games for us.  If we lose the next three games because Vinny misses more kicks, or if we lose a playoff game because he misses the game-winner, then we can talk about him being a liability, but by then it will be a moot point.  

[bluebombers87]

3 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Yes.  Because of the bolded.

 

Remember Jerome Bettis at the end of his career when he didn't get many carries or yards?  All he did was score TDs to win games for the Steelers.

 

The ranking of players means diddly squat if the team is winning.  And Vinny has won us 5x more games than he lost for us this year.  So for the umpteenth time, he is not a liability as long as he keeps winning games for us.  If we lose the next three games because Vinny misses more kicks, or if we lose a playoff game because he misses the game-winner, then we can talk about him being a liability, but by then it will be a moot point.  

I hope you’re right. 

[Introspect]

1 hour ago, bluebombers87 said:

Ah ok so it’s his fault when we win but when I cite a playoff loss, which was his last game prior to this season, it’s not. Yep, makes sense

Some men you just can't reach Blue.... They can't look at the situation without the fanboy glasses. Vinny is not up to snuff NOW in his career PERIOD

[bluebombers87]

9 minutes ago, Introspect said:

Some men you just can't reach Blue.... They can't look at the situation without the fanboy glasses. Vinny is not up to snuff NOW in his career PERIOD

True but at some point it’s not worth the fight. People are entitled to their opinions. This is after all, a message board, not the UN.

[2006Coltsbestever]

15 minutes ago, Introspect said:

Some men you just can't reach Blue.... They can't look at the situation without the fanboy glasses. Vinny is not up to snuff NOW in his career PERIOD

So who do you suggest we get to replace him?  . People in here wear fanboy glasses for a reason after he made a 52 yard winning FG. This is a Colts site last I looked. This isn't ESPN or a Pats, Texans, Jags site like some post like it is. As long as we win who gives a flyin crap.

[DerekDiggler]

anyone that wants to cut AV is beyond foolish....   WHO IS GOING TO REPLACE HIM????

 

Ted Nugent?   

 

Kickers are not a dime a dozen

 

Less worries on this team than replacing AV 

[BigQungus]

On 10/31/2019 at 1:41 PM, Myles said:

But as the poster said, if he missed every kick for the next 5 years.  So if he went 0-30 for 5 years straight and 0-30 in extra points for 5 years, first the Colts would be a laughing stock and second his career numbers would suffer allot.   It would certainly affect his status as a legend.   He could still be thought of as the best of all time.

 

Yeah it'd affect his status cause it would affect how we would remember him, but he'd still be the GOAT. This is kind of a pointless debate though

On 10/31/2019 at 1:44 PM, bluebombers87 said:

So what you’re saying is you are quoting yourself quoting your version of what I said?

 

Yes? Does it matter anyways? And I didn't quote my version, I directly quoted your quote

[Gramz]

6 minutes ago, BigQungus said:

 

 

Yes? Does it matter anyways? And I didn't quote my version, I quoted your quote

Who's on first..???  

[Coffeedrinker]

19 hours ago, bluebombers87 said:

Again, for the umpteenth time, an inconsistent kicker is a liability in this league.

 

Two things can be true at the same time, a kicker can be inconsistent but still kick game winning field goals. A kicker can help lose a game and help win a game. Doesn’t change the underlying fact he’s ranked 22/32 in the league. 
 

Would you be ok with the 22nd out of 32 in the league running backs just because they scored a go-ahead touchdown for the win? Would you be as complacent with any player who was ranked 22/32 in the league?

Here's the thing though, and I have not read all 22 pages so I don't know if you have addressed this already, AV is inconsistent this year, there is no question.  What consistent NFL kicker would you replace him with?

[Lucky Colts Fan]

21 hours ago, Introspect said:

Some men you just can't reach Blue.... They can't look at the situation without the fanboy glasses. Vinny is not up to snuff NOW in his career PERIOD

 

Name a kicker besides Justin Tucker that is "up to snuff".

 

Name the other kickers that can be credited with winning 5 games for their team this year.

 

Now name the kickers that have lost their team at least one game.

[Introspect]

50 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Name a kicker besides Justin Tucker that is "up to snuff".

 

Name the other kickers that can be credited with winning 5 games for their team this year.

 

Now name the kickers that have lost their team at least one game.

I guess with that mentality we keep the status quo and never look to make the team better. No position on this team is a top 3 player. So we just stick with the players we got...HMMMM

Just always looking to make the Shoe better... But I think the team is better than one player... Just a medical guy who is a fan of this team. Just my thoughts...

[Lucky Colts Fan]

Just now, Introspect said:

I guess with that mentality we keep the status quo and never look to make the team better. No position on this team is a top 3 player. So we just stick with the players we got...HMMMM

Just always looking to make the Shoe better... But I think the team is better than one player... Just a medical guy who is a fan of this team. Just my thoughts...

 

What?  Ballard has been improving the team since day 1.  You're getting into left field here... we're talking about kickers.  And Vinny has been a top-3 kicker for years, but isn't now.  And Vanderjagt was before Vinny.  Now that we have an average (but still clutch) kicker, we see what the other 31 teams have to deal with on a yearly basis.

 

So what top-3 kicker do we replace Vinny with?  In your medical opinion...

 

Also, I'd say Nelson, Kelly, Smith, Hooker, Leonard, and Moore are arguably top-3 at their positions.  But like I said, improving the team is Ballards' job, not mine or yours, and he's been doing a pretty good job so far.  

[bluebombers87]

8 hours ago, BigQungus said:

 

Yeah it'd affect his status cause it would affect how we would remember him, but he'd still be the GOAT. This is kind of a pointless debate though

 

Yes? Does it matter anyways? And I didn't quote my version, I directly quoted your quote

And your point?

[bluebombers87]

8 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Here's the thing though, and I have not read all 22 pages so I don't know if you have addressed this already, AV is inconsistent this year, there is no question.  What consistent NFL kicker would you replace him with?

You should have read those 22 pages haha.

 

Never said we should replace him. I was merely pointing out that we shouldn’t be exuberant claiming he’s back. We said the same thing in game 3. He’s still having issues. Kickings only gonna get harder as the year goes on. Maybe he struggles, maybe he doesn’t. Point is he’s inconsistent. And an inconsistent kicker is a liability in this league. Apparently this is tantamount to saying he’s garbage. I dunno.

[BigQungus]

11 hours ago, bluebombers87 said:

And your point?

 

That you said the Chargers game is starting to look like it matters more and more when it doesn't...   good grief why do you keep running around in circles?

[bluebombers87]

2 hours ago, BigQungus said:

 

That you said the Chargers game is starting to look like it matters more and more when it doesn't...   good grief why do you keep running around in circles?

That one loss may end up being important in the long run. It may not. I’m wise enough to know that I can’t see the future. Good for you oh seer of seers.

[bluebombers87]

2 hours ago, BigQungus said:

 

That you said the Chargers game is starting to look like it matters more and more when it doesn't...   good grief why do you keep running around in circles?

 

On 10/28/2019 at 1:44 PM, bluebombers87 said:

As do I. That’s the problem with inconsistent players. You never know when they’ll be great or be bad.

 

Ive never been accused of being warm and fuzzy, but services rendered can’t make you immune to criticism or the truth. All it does it give you an extra shot or two to fix what isn’t working. We do owe him that but how many is the question.

 

I agree, I think this is his last season. I think he knows it too. That chargers game may end up costing us more than we know when the end of the season comes.

The top is what you’re saying I said. The second quote at the bottom is what I actually said. 
 

Comprehension is important.

[Four2itus]

On 10/31/2019 at 8:19 PM, DerekDiggler said:

anyone that wants to cut AV is beyond foolish....   WHO IS GOING TO REPLACE HIM????

 

Ted Nugent?   

[Lucky Colts Fan]

16 hours ago, bluebombers87 said:

Never said we should replace him. I was merely pointing out that we shouldn’t be exuberant claiming he’s back. We said the same thing in game 3. He’s still having issues. Kickings only gonna get harder as the year goes on. Maybe he struggles, maybe he doesn’t. Point is he’s inconsistent. And an inconsistent kicker is a liability in this league. Apparently this is tantamount to saying he’s garbage. I dunno.

 

I just don't like Vinny being labeled a "liability" because he is still winning games for us, but I can see where you're coming from.

 

Maybe I just need to understand your perspective better.

 

Only making 75% of his kicks is obviously not ideal.  At what rate would you no longer consider him a liability?  80%?  90%?  What if he makes all his kicks the rest of the year and ends up above 90%, but misses a game-winner in the first playoff game?  (basically the opposite of what we have right now:  consistent, but not clutch)

[Dingus McGirt]

What in the Wide World of Sports is-a-going on here...?

[Gramz]

1 hour ago, Dingus McGirt said:

What in the Wide World of Sports is-a-going on here...?

In a nut shell 

 

Vinny is 46 and not kicking like he did in his 20s and 30s.  Big surprise.   

 

Every few games we re-visit this thread to see if he's still getting older. 

 

Some would like for us to replace him mid season...but don't have suggestions of who to replace him with. 

 

As for me... I still wear my #4 jersey every Sunday and hope for the best.

 

 

 

 

[bluebombers87]

1 hour ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I just don't like Vinny being labeled a "liability" because he is still winning games for us, but I can see where you're coming from.

 

Maybe I just need to understand your perspective better.

 

Only making 75% of his kicks is obviously not ideal.  At what rate would you no longer consider him a liability?  80%?  90%?  What if he makes all his kicks the rest of the year and ends up above 90%, but misses a game-winner in the first playoff game?  (basically the opposite of what we have right now:  consistent, but not clutch)

For me it’s not necessarily a number. He’s had three games where he’s missed multiple times. I’m ok with a missed kick if it’s an aberration. It’s when it happens multiple times in a single game that gets me concerned. 

9 minutes ago, Gramz said:

In a nut shell 

 

Vinny is 46 and not kicking like he did in his 20s and 30s.  Big surprise.   

 

Every few games we re-visit this thread to see if he's still getting older. 

 

Some would like for us to replace him mid season...but don't have suggestions of who to replace him with. 

 

As for me... I still wear my #4 jersey every Sunday and hope for the best.

 

 

 

 

Now now, there have been very few, if any that say we should get someone else. At least recently.

[Gramz]

1 minute ago, bluebombers87 said:

 

Now now, there have been very few, if any that say we should get someone else. At least recently.

You didn't care for my analogy of this thread? 

 

 

[Dingus McGirt]

6 hours ago, Gramz said:

In a nut shell 

 

Vinny is 46 and not kicking like he did in his 20s and 30s.  Big surprise.   

 

Every few games we re-visit this thread to see if he's still getting older. 

 

Some would like for us to replace him mid season...but don't have suggestions of who to replace him with. 

 

As for me... I still wear my #4 jersey every Sunday and hope for the best.

 

 

 

 

I only asked because the back and forth in this thread is out of control.  :^)

[BigQungus]

On 10/29/2019 at 10:22 PM, BigQungus said:

Once again...

 

You said "That chargers game may end up costing us more than we know when the end of the season comes."

 

My understanding was that you were talking about the significance of the Chargers game in relation to seeding and standings.

 

I then replied that the Chargers game is looking less and less important since the Chargers are looking less and less like contenders.

 

You then stated that he cannot leave points on the board against good teams. I don't know if I'm misunderstanding something, or if I'm being slow, but how is that relevant to how significant the Chargers game was?

 

 

 

This is what I said you said... which is a verbatim quote of what you said. The quote you quoted of me saying what I said you said was me paraphrasing what you said so that it's clearer what I thought you said. From my understanding, it's the exact same meaning

 

Anyways this is kind of pointless as it doesn't even seem like you think that anymore, based on you using a tautology to justify your argument.

20 hours ago, bluebombers87 said:

 

The top is what you’re saying I said. The second quote at the bottom is what I actually said. 
 

Comprehension is important.

 

[BigQungus]

21 hours ago, bluebombers87 said:

That one loss may end up being important in the long run. It may not. I’m wise enough to know that I can’t see the future. Good for you oh seer of seers.

 

(illustration of your argument) "The Jets may make the playoffs this year"

 

"They may make the playoffs, they may not. Good for you oh seer of seers"

 

Well obviously either something is true or not true. p v ~p is a classic tautology, but if you say that something may happen, I'm assuming that you think there's a little more weight behind it happening other than the fact that it's theoretically possible. 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

Just now, BigQungus said:

This is what I said you said... which is a verbatim quote of what you said. The quote you quoted of me saying what I said you said was me paraphrasing what you said so that it's clearer what I thought you said.

 

 

[coltsva]

39 minutes ago, BigQungus said:

 

This is what I said you said... which is a verbatim quote of what you said. The quote you quoted of me saying what I said you said was me paraphrasing what you said so that it's clearer what I thought you said.

 

Well said....whatever it is you said. 

[bluebombers87]

51 minutes ago, BigQungus said:

 

(illustration of your argument) "The Jets may make the playoffs this year"

 

"They may make the playoffs, they may not. Good for you oh seer of seers"

 

Well obviously either something is true or not true. p v ~p is a classic tautology, but if you say that something may happen, I'm assuming that you think there's a little more weight behind it happening other than the fact that it's theoretically possible. 

My goodness man. You must be so fun at parties. I’ve said what I believe others have said what they believe. At this point no one else cares. You can keep going on having pointless grammatical or logic arguments all you want. No one cares anymore. 

[GoColts8818]

I was wrong.  I don’t know if there is a better kicker out there right now but the Colts have to find out.

[Fisticuffs111]

Look, I don't trust Vinny much either, but the laces were in. Not many kickers are gonna make that at all.

EDIT: Nevermind, he definitely did kick the ground first. Wouldn't have made it anyways.

[VaAllDay757]

I still want him gone that's 2 games we lost because of him

[21isSuperman]

I've been defending Vinny all season, but he's really showing his age. Wouldn't be a bad idea to look at some alternative options

[FanFromtheWasteland]

If he is still playing next week im done

[Btown_Colt]

I think it’s the holder and snapper. At least has something to do with it. It’s not all on Adam.