Ballard is not impressing me.....

[DougDew]

And here it goes.

 

In a conversation about Ballard, we start talking about Grigson.  

 

Just let him go folks.  Let him go.

[2006Coltsbestever]

IMO, it's too early to be critical of the guy. He's had 2 Drafts and 2 Free Agency's. Nelson and Hooker both were Great picks. Lets just hope Hooker gets healthy and stays healthy. I would almost bet that Ballard will spend some money next Free Agency, he held off this season and I have no problem with it for now. Ballard is also responsible for trading Dorset who actually is a bust for a solid backup QB in Brissett. I am also sick of hearing how great Grigson did in his first season. A healthy Andrew Luck fell into his lap at #1, without that pick we don't even sniff 11 wins and everyone knows it. Joe off the street would've drafted Luck.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 hour ago, Cynjin said:

 

No, not all of us.

I tend to be a Junior Coach

[Luck 4 president]

6 minutes ago, csmopar said:

14 Percent... that means pretty much 8 out of 10 are failing

If not making all pro is failing then 53 out of 53 of our players are failures. There are still lots of good players who are not all pros, and I wouldn’t consider “failing” 

[Cynjin]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

I tend to be a Junior Coach

 

I hope that you don't have to deal with parents as a Junior Coach.

[TheMarine]

28 minutes ago, Luck 4 president said:

How much did Ballard offer him then? I read that he matched the offer, but didn’t beat it. But still it’s partly on the GM for not making a compelling enough pitch

Offered him 4.8 to stay, dude took 4.5 to go to Oakland

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

a) No, he didn't put himself in the corner. The team he inherited did not have a core to build on. You can't build such a core other than drafting it. It's not a choice, it is the only way to do it successfully. 

 

 

 

The only thing I would disagree with is that GMs do have the ability to find young interior Olinemen and safeties coming off their rookie contracts who can be young enough to build with, provided the team has the space and they are available that year.

 

OTs, 3 down pass rushers, #1 CBs, and #1 WRs; generally don't become available and they must be drafted.......usually requiring 1st round talent.

[Yoshinator]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

IMO, it's too early to be critical of the guy. He's had 2 Drafts and 2 Free Agency's. Nelson and Hooker both were Great picks. Lets just hope Hooker gets healthy and stays healthy. I would almost bet that Ballard will spend some money next Free Agency, he held off this season and I have no problem with it for now. Ballard is also responsible for trading Dorset who actually is a bust for a solid backup QB in Brissett. I am also sick of hearing how great Grigson did in his first season. A healthy Andrew Luck fell into his lap at #1, without that pick we don't even sniff 11 wins and everyone knows it. Joe off the street would've drafted Luck.

Yep. Grigson is one of the worst GM's in history potentially. Any of us could do as good as him or better for the simple fact that we would of all drafted Luck as well, and Grigson missed on almost all of his other picks. Even with all his advanced technology and scouts, Grigson was a massive failure. That's what annoys me about people calling others "armchair GM's" and such. Usually these people know nothing about the real draft and just go along with whoever is drafted. Even real GM's can be bad, and we were on the bad side of that.

[Indy1996]

10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

IMO, it's too early to be critical of the guy. He's had 2 Drafts and 2 Free Agency's. Nelson and Hooker both were Great picks. Lets just hope Hooker gets healthy and stays healthy. I would almost bet that Ballard will spend some money next Free Agency, he held off this season and I have no problem with it for now. Ballard is also responsible for trading Dorset who actually is a bust for a solid backup QB in Brissett. I am also sick of hearing how great Grigson did in his first season. A healthy Andrew Luck fell into his lap at #1, without that pick we don't even sniff 11 wins and everyone knows it. Joe off the street would've drafted Luck.

Hooker is healthy where have you been at

[Luck 4 president]

2 minutes ago, TheMarine said:

Offered him 4.8 to stay, dude took 4.5 to go to Oakland

He actually signed a 1 year $6.5 million contract. So if Ballard offered him 4.8 I can see why he walked.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Cynjin said:

 

I hope that you don't have to deal with parents as a Junior Coach.

One my vivid memories of coaching is having parents yelling opposing directions to kids

     I never had any face to face conflicts with parents as a coach but did as a refereee

[TheMarine]

1 minute ago, Luck 4 president said:

He actually signed a 1 year $6.5 million contract. So if Ballard offered him 4.8 I can see why he walked.

 

I believe Ballard was offering a 2 year deal, 4.8mil per year average. Rashaan bet on himself, taking the 1 year deal with Oakland

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, Indy1996 said:

Hooker is healthy where have you been at

He hasn't played a Regular Season game since early last season, I want to see him play in the Regular Season and get back to how he was before his injury before I truly believe he is 100%. "Where have you been at". I have been right here everyday, how about you?

[Four2itus]

....aaaand my trophy room....err ignore list grows by one. 

 

Bazzzinga!

[shasta519]

This should be fun.

[Scott Pennock]

1 hour ago, Surge89 said:

 

There's a problem with your assumption.  About half of the 2nd round picks in the NFL are starters though.  We have had more 2nd rounders in 2 years than someone like the Steelers have had in 4.  Yet we have little to show for it in comparison.  In fact let's look at those picks just for comparison sake.  The Steelers have nabbed Stephen Tuitt (a top 5 DE in the AFC), Leveon Bell (a top 3 RB in the NFL),  JuJu Smith-Schuster (a top tier WR2 borderline WR1, Sean Davis a top 10 safety in the AFC and Sanquez Golson who had one heck of a career ahead of him but was injured every year he tried to play.

 

That is what 2nd round picks look like on a team who truly builds through the draft.  And ours aren't even in the same zip code. 

Tuitt has been in the league for 4-6 years now.....easy to judge based on hindsight as Tuitt didn't really secure a starting role until his 3rd year....

 

I'll give you JuJu....

 

Sean Davis.....never heard of her....

 

And this wonderfully talented other player (Golson) who's always hurt just murders your argument.

 

You're comparing established players with 1st year players and rookies.

 

Mr. Bell didn't even really become who he is until his 4th season either due to suspensions or injury.

 

Your chosen platform has a lot of holes in it....

[Coltsman1788]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Ballard is definitely better than Grigson. He is better mentally and emotionally for the job and has a better mindset and plan. However, the only thing I question is the execution as of now. Can he build our team through the draft his way instead of doing a BPA type strategy? This is the method SB winning teams have used throughout the years, and I'm worried we may miss a lot in the draft like Grigson did if we keep drafting like this. Loved Hooker, Nelson and Wilson. They were BPA picks. They are an example of the difference between BPA and filling a need.

I think that is a valid concern which bears watching.  One thing to consider though is that we don’t really have any idea how Ballard is evaluating or ranking these guys. He likely sees things differently than most of us do since he is privy to info that we don’t have.  But from a Colts fan perspective, I get where you are coming from. We must continue to watch how effectively Ballard is able to execute his philosophy and hold him accountable if necessary in a year or two. 

[Four2itus]

3 hours ago, basketballsteve said:

Great Caesar's Ghost!

Merlin's beard!

[shasta519]

5 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I just got up and have to check golf lineups for fanduel. Hadn't seen this thread yet, so I thought I'd put in a reasonable post first. 

 

Haha...someone who knows my pain when it comes to DFS Golf.

[SteelCityColt]

13 minutes ago, Luck 4 president said:

He actually signed a 1 year $6.5 million contract. So if Ballard offered him 4.8 I can see why he walked.

 

1 year $5.5 Million to be exact. I believe we offered a multi year deal. 

[shasta519]

3 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

You were the same type of person who would have crapped all over Theo Epstein when he systematically tore down and rebuilt the Cubs into WS Champions. And yes, the type of person who still cheared when they won.....

 

You're the type that refused to believe in the process and wanted your dessert before the meal was even made....

 

Look at the body of work put together by Ballard (Bears, Chiefs), Hogan (Bears) and Dodds (Seahawks). Those Bears teams were very good defensively and lost to the Colts in SB41 with Rex FREAKING Grossman as thier starting QB - that is nothing short of a miracle in itself. 

 

The Legion of Boom just collapsed in Seattle but there should be little doubt in Dodds capabilities either as they were stout for a solid 5-7 year run.

 

Buckle your chin strap young man and enjoy the ride as it takes more than 1 year and 1 preseason for the "foundation" to be set. Plus, the difference in all of those teams, we actually have a STAR Quarterback when they had/have game mamagers.

 

You can't really compare the Cubs rebuild to the Colts rebuild...much different scenarios. 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, shastamasta said:

 

You can't really compare the Cubs rebuild to the Colts rebuild...much different scenarios. 

You can since Anthony Rizzo and Addison Russell were the only young guns not drafted and/or groomed by the team

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

You were the same type of person who would have crapped all over Theo Epstein when he systematically tore down and rebuilt the Cubs into WS Champions. And yes, the type of person who still cheared when they won.....

 

You're the type that refused to believe in the process and wanted your dessert before the meal was even made....

 

Look at the body of work put together by Ballard (Bears, Chiefs), Hogan (Bears) and Dodds (Seahawks). Those Bears teams were very good defensively and lost to the Colts in SB41 with Rex FREAKING Grossman as thier starting QB - that is nothing short of a miracle in itself. 

 

The Legion of Boom just collapsed in Seattle but there should be little doubt in Dodds capabilities either as they were stout for a solid 5-7 year run.

 

Buckle your chin strap young man and enjoy the ride as it takes more than 1 year and 1 preseason for the "foundation" to be set. Plus, the difference in all of those teams, we actually have a STAR Quarterback when they had/have game mamagers.

Go Cubs!

[throwing BBZ]

10 hours ago, threeflight said:

I said this last winter and I will say it again after this draft.

 

IMO GM Ballard is not impressing me in the least.   I know he talks a good game, and comes across as someone who seems to know what he is doing, but his actions imo leave much to be desired.

 

FA signings have been mediocre at best.  And he has not used the plethora of money he has at his disposal to really get anyone of consequence.

 

Totally bungled the backup QB situation last year expecting to go into the season starting the worst Qb in the world.  Is that guy even still in the league?

 

Bungled the coaching search.

 

His drafts have been this.

 

Malik Hooker FSOhio State

Quincy Wilson CBFlorida

Tarell Basham OLBOhio

Zach Banner OTUSC

Marlon Mack RBSouth Florida

Grover Stewart DTAlbany State

Nate Hairston CBTemple

Anthony Walker Jr.ILBNorthwestern

 

Quenton Nelson Guard Notre Dame

Darius Leonard LinebackerSouth Carolina State

Braden Smith GuardAuburnFrom NY Jets

Kemoko Turay Defensive endRutgersFrom Baltimore via Philadelphia

Tyquan Lewis Defensive endOhio StateFrom Philadelphia via Cleveland

Nyheim Hines Running backNC State

Daurice Fountain Wide receiverNorthern IowaFrom Kansas City via Cleveland, New England, and Oakland

Jordan Wilkins Running backOle MissFrom Philadelphia

Deon Cain Wide receiverClemsonFrom Oakland

Matthew Adams LinebackerHouston

Zaire Franklin LinebackerSyracuse

For a guy who says he is wanting to build through the draft, and yes I realize it is early in the process, but besides a couple of guys...do we really see any standouts here?

 

Hooker, Nelson, Leonard and then???

 

Mack?  Maybe.

Hariston????

 

All those guys and so far we see just a few that look like they may amount to something more than just filler??

 

I mean cmon.  What is this guy doing?  I want to root for him more than anyone but so far, color me not impressed.

 

Bonkers.  Back under your rock till 2020 knaven johnson.

[csmopar]

39 minutes ago, Luck 4 president said:

If not making all pro is failing then 53 out of 53 of our players are failures. There are still lots of good players who are not all pros, and I wouldn’t consider “failing” 

that's exactly my point. Second rounders are not always going to be superstuds like many on here expect.

[NorthernBlue]

How is it that we did BETTER in preaseason this year yet people are somehow more mad 

[TDewar1987]

Y'all ever read the crap people post on WTHR and Fox59? Yeah this is on that level of stupid. 

[IinD]

I can't knock his first year much, I feel Irsay was being loyal to Chuck and probably didn't let him (Ballard) do EVERYTHING he wanted to do in terms of staff.

 

In my mind, I think they'll SPEND next year. Jim wanted to make sure he has a QB first. They'll go hard next year in terms of FA to get the vision they had. Totally my opinion, but I definitely think Jim and Chris were looking 3/4 years ahead, not two.

[akcolt]

1 minute ago, IinD said:

I can't knock his first year much, I feel Irsay was being loyal to Chuck and probably didn't let him (Ballard) do EVERYTHING he wanted to do in terms of staff.

 

In my mind, I think they'll SPEND next year. Jim wanted to make sure he has a QB first. They'll go hard next year in terms of FA to get the vision they had. Totally my opinion, but I definitely think Jim and Chris were looking 3/4 years ahead, not two.

Luck being healthy all season and winning some games will help with free agency too. Let's not forget free agents can sign with whoever they want. It's not alway just about money. Obviously money helps but Melvin is an example of a guy taking less to play elsewhere. Ballard has been an open book when he says he's building through the draft and will pick his spots in FA.  I expect he will do just that. 

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, Luck 4 president said:

He actually signed a 1 year $6.5 million contract. So if Ballard offered him 4.8 I can see why he walked.

ballard's offer was almost 10 mil, 2 years per many credible reports

[Yoshinator]

25 minutes ago, NorthernBlue said:

How is it that we did BETTER in preaseason this year yet people are somehow more mad 

I would guess because Cain and Lewis are injured, Hines is playing abysmal right now, and only Nelson and Leonard are really standing out from this draft class. Also, the O-Line and D-Line aren't very impressive either. It is preseason, and if it turns around, many people will change their tune, but there's limited info on both draft classes right now, and the early dividends are a bit poor, so morale is low. It's a situation right now where we have Luck back, but he may have to carry the team again.

[shasta519]

11 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

You can since Anthony Rizzo and Addison Russell were the only young guns not drafted and/or groomed by the team

 

I would say it's assumptive to compare anything Ballard is doing to what Theo did and accomplished. If it's too early to judge picks (which it is), then it's far too early to point to a successful example like that. We could just as easily list examples of teams that tried to rebuild and failed...of which there are many (even in the NFL).

 

But as for the Cubs comparisons, many of the young players that Theo acquired/drafted showed up immediately and were highly-ranked in the Top 100 prospects. Outside of a couple of players, that hasn't really happened with the Colts. That could change in a year...but it's not the case right now.

 

Also, Russell, Rizzo, Hendricks, Arrieta, Fowler (key pieces to the WS team)...all were acquired via trade...something that doesn't really exist in the NFL (at least not nearly at the same level).

 

And there is no foreign stream of young players that just cost money...like International Free Agency...where Theo was able to use his financial advantage to sign guys like Jorge Soler, Gleyber Torres and Eloy Jiminez...among several others.

 

And with the CBA in MLB, the draft works differently. It is incredibly advantageous to have a top pick because you get a much larger pool of money to spend. This means the can strategically underslot early picks and save money to overslot HS kids to get them to forego college. In the NFL, all picks are slotted and your only advantage is where you pick.

 

I just don't think you can compare NFL and MLB. In the NFL, you basically have the draft, UDFA, FA and the rare trade. And you need to ultimately fill a roster that is twice the size of a MLB roster without having the minor leagues to stash and develop players. If your focus is the draft and lotto tickets FAs/UDFAs, you are going to have to hit at an incredibly high level.

[csmopar]

12 minutes ago, IinD said:

I can't knock his first year much, I feel Irsay was being loyal to Chuck and probably didn't let him (Ballard) do EVERYTHING he wanted to do in terms of staff.

 

In my mind, I think they'll SPEND next year. Jim wanted to make sure he has a QB first. They'll go hard next year in terms of FA to get the vision they had. Totally my opinion, but I definitely think Jim and Chris were looking 3/4 years ahead, not two.

Yep. I also think the uncertainity around the coaching, the Luck situation etc all helped to deter some FAs as well. 

 

Keep in mind too, the Jags are already in Salary cap trouble.  For next season, they're nearly 20 million OVER the cap for 2019, 8 million under for 2020. Guys like Jalen Ramsey and others are coming up on contract extensions soon,  which means some very good talent is likely to be hitting the market. Jags play a 4-3 too... 

 

Plus, I think the 90 percent over 3 years rule comes into play for us next year as well.  We'll be using that cap, and the roll over from this year too, some additional 50 million...

[IinD]

4 minutes ago, akcolt said:

Luck being healthy all season and winning some games will help with free agency too. Let's not forget free agents can sign with whoever they want. It's not alway just about money. Obviously money helps but Melvin is an example of a guy taking less to play elsewhere. Ballard has been an open book when he says he's building through the draft and will pick his spots in FA.  I expect he will do just that. 

Agreed, why would FA's want to come here if we're a bad team? People will come if they can win as well as get paid. Irsay isn't cheap so I'll never buy that excuse. Every guy from the golden years was the highest paid when they got their new contracts.

 

We HAD to build the roster from the 50th guy and up. That's what I see happening now. 

 

Ballard will splash in next year's FA period, I'm almost 100% positive. They didn't want to spend, just to spend and I can understand that.

[Scott Pennock]

55 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

You can't really compare the Cubs rebuild to the Colts rebuild...much different scenarios. 

I'm not....I'm comparing the crybaby fanbase that have no patience and need thier instant gratification.....

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, akcolt said:

Luck being healthy all season and winning some games will help with free agency too. Let's not forget free agents can sign with whoever they want. It's not alway just about money. Obviously money helps but Melvin is an example of a guy taking less to play elsewhere. Ballard has been an open book when he says he's building through the draft and will pick his spots in FA.  I expect he will do just that. 

Yep, Ballard has his QB back now + the Coach he wanted after the Mcdaniels debacle. So I fully expect us to be on the upward trend as in winning 8 games at worse and I have us winning 9. Once we do that and Luck comes out of the season healthy, I believe many Free Agents will want to join Indy at that point. That is why (IMO) Ballard is waiting until next March to do his thing in Free Agency with the money he has. 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, shastamasta said:

 

I would say it's assumptive to compare anything Ballard is doing to what Theo did and accomplished. If it's too early to judge picks (which it is), then it's far too early to point to a successful example like that. We could just as easily list examples of teams that tried to rebuild and failed...of which there are many (even in the NFL).

 

But as for the Cubs comparisons, many of the young players that Theo acquired/drafted showed up immediately and were highly-ranked in the Top 100 prospects. Outside of a couple of players, that hasn't really happened with the Colts. That could change in a year...but it's not the case right now.

 

Also, Russell, Rizzo, Hendricks, Arrieta, Fowler (key pieces to the WS team)...all were acquired via trade...something that doesn't really exist in the NFL (at least not nearly at the same level).

 

And there is no foreign stream of young players that just cost money...like International Free Agency...where Theo was able to use his financial advantage to sign guys like Jorge Soler, Gleyber Torres and Eloy Jiminez...among several others.

 

And with the CBA in MLB, the draft works differently. It is incredibly advantageous to have a top pick because you get a much larger pool of money to spend. This means the can strategically underslot early picks and save money to overslot HS kids to get them to forego college. In the NFL, all picks are slotted and your only advantage is where you pick.

 

I just don't think you can compare NFL and MLB. In the NFL, you basically have the draft, UDFA, FA and the rare trade. And you need to ultimately fill a roster that is twice the size of a MLB roster without having the minor leagues to stash and develop players. If your focus is the draft and lotto tickets FAs/UDFAs, you are going to have to hit at an incredibly high level.

   Fowler was not added until the young guns were ready, JA was pulled of the scrap heap, KH and Addy were traded as Minor Leaguers and were groomed by the Cubs not to mention that Theo and Ballard have the same philosophy of building through the draft

[needanoline63]

10 hours ago, Luck 4 president said:

Ya I agree with you. His drafts have been disappointing and his FA signings have been... meh... on top of that he cut one of our top 3 defenders from last year and let our best CB walk.

Ya letting Melvin go was stupid! Like we don’t need a good corner Lol. Instead we go into the season with guys that will get destroyed 

[Surge89]

1 hour ago, Scott Pennock said:

Tuitt has been in the league for 4-6 years now.....easy to judge based on hindsight as Tuitt didn't really secure a starting role until his 3rd year....

 

I'll give you JuJu....

 

Sean Davis.....never heard of her....

 

And this wonderfully talented other player (Golson) who's always hurt just murders your argument.

 

You're comparing established players with 1st year players and rookies.

 

Mr. Bell didn't even really become who he is until his 4th season either due to suspensions or injury.

 

Your chosen platform has a lot of holes in it....

 

Wait so because you haven't heard of the player my argument is faulty? Lol ok.  Except that Tuitt was taking more snaps at DE in his first year than his entire draft class in a 3-4 allignment and was a regular starter in his 2nd year.... Not his 3rd

 

Sean Davis was a highly touted safety by those who followed the draft process and immediately started... Yet again just becaus you don't know who he is doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. 

 

Golson is solely based on his pre-draft status and never got a shot how does that murder my argument? He was a highly touted player that they took based on production and ability. Not question marks and risks.  No one could tell that aplayer with no injuries would all of a sudden become the most injured player of the class .

 

Im not comparing 1st year players with established vets in comparing draft strategies.  The Steelers took low question high potential players with production and have had a great return we have not. And the proof is solely in the play of their 2nd round players and the lack of ours. 

 

My platform is fine I can't foresee that you don't know the players I speak of. 

[Pacergeek]

3 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

I didn’t say that if a player was starting they were automatically good, but would you say Hooker, Wilson, Mack, or Hairston are bad players?

Wilson could be bad. He is an unknown. For a second round pick, he should be much better