Luck looked like crap tonight

[The Fish]

2 hours ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

I really wish we could've gotten Jeffery last year.. oh well. So many people are against Dez for some reason.. I do think we NEED a big bodied WR

If Dez wasn't T.O part 2, you'd see more people agreeing with you. As it stands he's slow, expensive and not a good team guy from most accounts. Three strikes 

[Cynjin]

4 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

You don't have proof.  Proof would be calling it ahead of time.   Not finding out who the champ is,  then trying to find a story to fit your narrative.   

 

When did you and I become the "breakfast club"?

[deedub75]

The excuses made for this team are amazing.  We could look back at the forum every year since Manning left and see a lot of the same excuses for this team's performance.  This team seems fundamentally flawed year after year.  The team has not looked good plain and simple.  This is year 2 of Ballard and think in 3 years he should be able to turn this team around.  This may not be our year but I'm not upset about it.  

[crazycolt1]

4 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

The excuses made for this team are amazing.  We could look back at the forum every year since Manning left and see a lot of the same excuses for this team's performance.  This team seems fundamentally flawed year after year.  The team has not looked good plain and simple.  This is year 2 of Ballard and think in 3 years he should be able to turn this team around.  This may not be our year but I'm not upset about it.  

It amazes me how you can make those comments based on 2 pre-season games. If you can't see that the coaches are looking at things that have nothing to do with winning football games I don't know what to tell you. We haven't even seen the starting lineups of the offense or the defense. We haven't seen a game plan put in place either. We have been looking at bubble players.

I am not saying we are going to be great or be bad but till I see regular season game action I am not predicting how good or bad we will be. 

[deedub75]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

It amazes me how you can make those comments based on 2 pre-season games. If you can't see that the coaches are looking at things that have nothing to do with winning football games I don't know what to tell you. We haven't even seen the starting lineups of the offense or the defense. We haven't seen a game plan put in place either. We have been looking at bubble players.

I am not saying we are going to be great or be bad but till I see regular season game action I am not predicting how good or bad we will be. 

 

My point is that the same things are said every year and even with a new coaching staff and new players the same things are being said.  The team has a history of playing in the first few regular season games the same way they played in the preseason.  The coaches and players aren't making excuses and I'm certainly not going to make excuses for them.  I don't think they even know who all of the starters are going to be 2 games in and that's a problem and I also don't believe they figured that out after last night.  We're relying on a bunch of unproven players hoping that Luck is going to ride in to the rescue.  

[a06cc]

Saturday is the true test for Luck. So please everyone hold your comments for after that game. Again the INT he threw was horribly stupid. However what do you expect with again no running game going? I’m not worried after rewatching Luck. He is pretty rusty. He’ll bounce back Saturday. 

[1959Colts]

11 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

My point is that the same things are said every year and even with a new coaching staff and new players the same things are being said.  The team has a history of playing in the first few regular season games the same way they played in the preseason.

 

You make a very good point.

Reich has said he would use "vanilla play calling" during the preseason.

Based on the offense's struggles so far, I will be very interested to see how much different (and innovative) the play calling will be in the first few regular season games.

[deedub75]

2 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

 

You make a very good point.

Reich has said he would use "vanilla play calling" during the preseason.

Based on the offense's struggles so far, I will be very interested to see how much different (and innovative) the play calling will be in the first few regular season games.

 

Most, if not all, teams use vanilla play calling during the preseason.  They want to hold their cards until the regular season.  However, we still have not seen Luck throw it more than 20 yard.  I hope this is by design but even so it's still unusual to see a QB not throw at least one long ball in 2 preseason games.  So it's difficult to get a true reading on your team if the the opposing defense in 2 preseason games knows that they only have to guard 20 yards down the field.  Play action isn't going to work and you really can't evaluate your run game.  

[Pacergeek]

I thought Luck flashed very well on the completion to Doyle. Where he stepped into the pocket

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, deedub75 said:

 

My point is that the same things are said every year and even with a new coaching staff and new players the same things are being said.  The team has a history of playing in the first few regular season games the same way they played in the preseason.  The coaches and players aren't making excuses and I'm certainly not going to make excuses for them.  I don't think they even know who all of the starters are going to be 2 games in and that's a problem and I also don't believe they figured that out after last night.  We're relying on a bunch of unproven players hoping that Luck is going to ride in to the rescue.  

What you don't seem to realize is this team has no history. This is Frank's first season right along with all the coaches. So there is no history established.

[deedub75]

11 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

What you don't seem to realize is this team has no history. This is Frank's first season right along with all the coaches. So there is no history established.

 

How many regimes have the Browns been through?  Jets?  Bills?  The Colts' past history does not predict the future.  However, this preseason is looking eerily similar to the past few preseasons.  I'm hoping this new regime can break from the old.  Like I said before, I'm not going to make excuses for this team.  They don't look very good at all and there are question marks at almost every position and these questions aren't going to be answered by Saturday.  So far there's been nothing to say they are going to be terrible but there's also been nothing to say that they are going to be great either.  

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

How many regimes have the Browns been through?  Jets?  Bills?  The Colts' past history does not predict the future.  However, this preseason is looking eerily similar to the past few preseasons.  I'm hoping this new regime can break from the old.  Like I said before, I'm not going to make excuses for this team.  They don't look very good at all and there are question marks at almost every position and these questions aren't going to be answered by Saturday.  So far there's been nothing to say they are going to be terrible but there's also been nothing to say that they are going to be great either.  

If you're expecting greatness this year,   you're gonna be disappointed I'm afraid.    Luck hasn't played in a long time.   New coaches,  new schemes.    It won't happen over night

[crazycolt1]

6 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

How many regimes have the Browns been through?  Jets?  Bills?  The Colts' past history does not predict the future.  However, this preseason is looking eerily similar to the past few preseasons.  I'm hoping this new regime can break from the old.  Like I said before, I'm not going to make excuses for this team.  They don't look very good at all and there are question marks at almost every position and these questions aren't going to be answered by Saturday.  So far there's been nothing to say they are going to be terrible but there's also been nothing to say that they are going to be great either.  

This coaching staff has nothing to do with Pagano's coaching staff just like Pagano's had nothing to do with Dungy/Cauldwell's staff.

Most all pre-season games are played the same by all teams. That is self explanatory.

You want to bring up history? Tell me how the Colts played in pre-season during the Manning years.

[deedub75]

40 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

This coaching staff has nothing to do with Pagano's coaching staff just like Pagano's had nothing to do with Dungy/Cauldwell's staff.

Most all pre-season games are played the same by all teams. That is self explanatory.

You want to bring up history? Tell me how the Colts played in pre-season during the Manning years.

 

I did not say Pagano’s coaching staff had anything to do with this coaching staff. I only said the results look similar and history can repeat itself no matter how many regimes a team goes through. Colts had Manning during the Manning years so you answered your own question on that one. He was so good that he only needed a couple of series throughout all of the preseason games to get ready. 

[deedub75]

45 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

If you're expecting greatness this year,   you're gonna be disappointed I'm afraid.    Luck hasn't played in a long time.   New coaches,  new schemes.    It won't happen over night

 

I’m with you. I’m not expecting greatness this season. But I’m also not going to make excuse for them. I don’t agree with the OP that Luck looked like crap but he did not look good either. The excuse makers came out big time on this thread. 

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, deedub75 said:

 

I’m with you. I’m not expecting greatness this season. But I’m also not going to make excuse for them. I don’t agree with the OP that Luck looked like crap but he did not look good either. The excuse makers came out big time on this thread. 

I don't think anyone that is being honest thought he looked good last night.     But as far as I could tell,   only Doyle was getting separation,  and the tackles weren't giving him much help.    I don't think Luck will be the reason we aren't great this year.     We will have a better idea next week.   

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, deedub75 said:

 

I’m with you. I’m not expecting greatness this season. But I’m also not going to make excuse for them. I don’t agree with the OP that Luck looked like crap but he did not look good either. The excuse makers came out big time on this thread. 

What you are seeing as excuses are reasons.  After reading the comments all of them are legit.

This team is right in the middle of a rebuild.

Luck played little after an extended medical leave.

It's only the second pre-season game for a whole new coaching staff.

We have a 90 man roster and things are not only hectic the coaches have to watch and decide what players stay and what players go. The cut day is getting real close.

Ballard is not only looking at our players he is watching players from the whole league to see if there is a player from another team that can help us.

Will all that going on you seem to think it's excuses?  Maybe if you realized the whole picture the color would come to life?

 

 

[AZColt11]

No big deal.  Even if everything went right for this team, this isn't the year to win a Superbowl IMHO.  Too many pieces left to build.   I've been sayin 2019 is the year to make a move with 2020 a possible Superbowl team.  I'm standing by that.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, deedub75 said:

 

I’m with you. I’m not expecting greatness this season. But I’m also not going to make excuse for them. I don’t agree with the OP that Luck looked like crap but he did not look good either. The excuse makers came out big time on this thread. 

"The excuse makers came out big time on this thread". Yeah well so did the bashers. Saying a guy played like crap when he was only playing his 2nd game in a year and a half is a bit harsh dont you think? Why dont the people saying he would never play again and we should've drafted Mayfield or Allen comment about that? About now they are eating crow is why. 

[Tsarquise]

21 hours ago, Boiler_Colt said:

Rams, not Steelers

That is so weird. I so rememeber it being the Steelers. But, yeah, you're right. 

[Coltsman1788]

Obviously Luck didn't look good last night.  Rust combined with his continued tendency to throw interceptions and make ill advised throws at times no doubt contributed.  He also continues to hold on to the ball way too long.  However, we must also realize that the Colts are usually very vanilla on offense during the preseason and last night were minus T.Y. Hilton, their top 2 running backs and starting LT.  Not surprising that Luck was less than impressive.  Hopefully, he will continue to use the preseason to shake off the rust and regain any lost confidence that may have resulted from the shoulder injury.  As I said earlier in the off-season...I expect Luck to be rusty and take some lumps this season.  I still think Colts have a chance to be decent but a lot of that will hinge on if they can get through the year relatively healthy.  Unfortunately they are already off to a rocky start on the injury front. 

[The Fish]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

"The excuse makers came out big time on this thread". Yeah well so did the bashers. Saying a guy played like crap when he was only playing his 2nd game in a year and a half is a bit harsh dont you think? Why dont the people saying he would never play again and we should've drafted Mayfield or Allen comment about that? About now they are eating crow is why. 

I'm not sure they are. There's always an angle... The variations can be seen in this thread even. Didn't you know about Phillip Walker. He threw a TD.. in a preseason game even. Luck didn't yesterday. Probably needs benched, ya know?

 

There's zero patience in this sport, but this year is more than likely going to require some patience. Luck needs to get rolling again (and him playing a whole game would be the way, we'll get there..) and the program as a whole needs to be defined and put into motion and practiced. Then there's the rebuild that every single person who spent the last 3 years before Ballard showed up, begging for Grigson to be fired (because he sucked and was tanking the franchise) should expect. There's no way to fix the mess he made by missing so often, so badly on draft picks in year 2. It honestly can't be overstated how very Browns Grigson was/is. 

[JMichael557]

Luck does not hold the ball too long. I don't know why people continue to say that. If you are going to throw the ball down the field you have to hold the ball until the route develops. When he threw the ball to Rodgers did he hold it too long. Of Course not. When he was sacked it was a play down the filed and Clark failed to make any block.  If it is a quick route and the receiver is open he throws the ball. If not he will extend the play but he is not just holding the ball. 

[King Colt]

Will Cain crawled all over Luck today  (Tues).  Fine Will  but it seems to me all agreed prior to the games Luck would be rusty yet when he was rusty you jump him. I know bad news sells papers. What will you say when he gets back in form, "I told you all so?!"

[Superman]

10 hours ago, deedub75 said:

However, this preseason is looking eerily similar to the past few preseasons

 

I disagree. I was pretty upset during preseason last year because I felt the team had no sense of urgency. Players weren't bringing any physicality, the team was flat, the defense was slow. And the coaching staff was treating Tolzien like he was a well established starter, playing him just one series in the first game and only one quarter in the second game. 

 

This year, there is a clear sense of urgency from top to bottom. The defense is playing fast and physical, even though they aren't great. They're giving Luck more playing time than Tolzien got last year. Camp was reportedly far more physical and grueling than any Pagano camp ever was. 

 

To me, Game 2 was just sloppy. I'm not making or accepting excuses for it, but I don't think it's anything more than that. After listening to Reich talk about the Saturday practice being sloppy because of the brawl, I'm not surprised the game was sloppy. And I'm thinking it's going to be a positive for the team, because the coaches can draw a straight line from that last sloppy practice to the sloppy game, and use both to hold players accountable. I hope they do just that. 

 

We'll see if the team winds up looking soft, sluggish, unprepared, etc., in Week 1. But I don't think this preseason is similar to previous years at all. I think the coaching staff has already established a far different tone. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I disagree. I was pretty upset during preseason last year because I felt the team had no sense of urgency. Players weren't bringing any physicality, the team was flat, the defense was slow. And the coaching staff was treating Tolzien like he was a well established starter, playing him just one series in the first game and only one quarter in the second game. 

 

This year, there is a clear sense of urgency from top to bottom. The defense is playing fast and physical, even though they aren't great. They're giving Luck more playing time than Tolzien got last year. Camp was reportedly far more physical and grueling than any Pagano camp ever was. 

 

To me, Game 2 was just sloppy. I'm not making or accepting excuses for it, but I don't think it's anything more than that. After listening to Reich talk about the Saturday practice being sloppy because of the brawl, I'm not surprised the game was sloppy. And I'm thinking it's going to be a positive for the team, because the coaches can draw a straight line from that last sloppy practice to the sloppy game, and use both to hold players accountable. I hope they do just that. 

 

We'll see if the team winds up looking soft, sluggish, unprepared, etc., in Week 1. But I don't think this preseason is similar to previous years at all. I think the coaching staff has already established a far different tone. 

I agree, this pre-season and last pre-season look nothing like each other IMO. I really can't add to your Post because you covered it all.

[deedub75]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I disagree. I was pretty upset during preseason last year because I felt the team had no sense of urgency. Players weren't bringing any physicality, the team was flat, the defense was slow. And the coaching staff was treating Tolzien like he was a well established starter, playing him just one series in the first game and only one quarter in the second game. 

 

This year, there is a clear sense of urgency from top to bottom. The defense is playing fast and physical, even though they aren't great. They're giving Luck more playing time than Tolzien got last year. Camp was reportedly far more physical and grueling than any Pagano camp ever was. 

 

To me, Game 2 was just sloppy. I'm not making or accepting excuses for it, but I don't think it's anything more than that. After listening to Reich talk about the Saturday practice being sloppy because of the brawl, I'm not surprised the game was sloppy. And I'm thinking it's going to be a positive for the team, because the coaches can draw a straight line from that last sloppy practice to the sloppy game, and use both to hold players accountable. I hope they do just that. 

 

We'll see if the team winds up looking soft, sluggish, unprepared, etc., in Week 1. But I don't think this preseason is similar to previous years at all. I think the coaching staff has already established a far different tone. 

 

I’m not talking about how the preseason is being run. The play in the 2 preseason games looks similar as well as the injuries. 

 

Calling game 2 sloppy is an excuse. They played a better team and that should be a wake up call for them. 

[deedub75]

10 hours ago, The Fish said:

I'm not sure they are. There's always an angle... The variations can be seen in this thread even. Didn't you know about Phillip Walker. He threw a TD.. in a preseason game even. Luck didn't yesterday. Probably needs benched, ya know?

 

There's zero patience in this sport, but this year is more than likely going to require some patience. Luck needs to get rolling again (and him playing a whole game would be the way, we'll get there..) and the program as a whole needs to be defined and put into motion and practiced. Then there's the rebuild that every single person who spent the last 3 years before Ballard showed up, begging for Grigson to be fired (because he sucked and was tanking the franchise) should expect. There's no way to fix the mess he made by missing so often, so badly on draft picks in year 2. It honestly can't be overstated how very Browns Grigson was/is. 

 

I’m preaching patience which is why I’m not upset with anything that’s going on right now.  Ballard has made mistakes and he will be the first to admit. It’s going to take time for the results we want. 

[Lawrence Owen]

27 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

I’m not talking about how the preseason is being run. The play in the 2 preseason games looks similar as well as the injuries. 

 

Calling game 2 sloppy is an excuse. They played a better team and that should be a wake up call for them. 

I will take THAT Injury statement as a WIN.

Think about it.  Pagano practiced 'soft' And got injuries all the time. (worse that we have now IMO).  Reich has had the most physical practices in recent memory with Indy and yet no worse for wear.  

At that point in time, Baltimore was the better team.  But with everything that is new to the Colts ATM, we won't know how good we truly are until a few weeks into the season IMO.

[IinD]

FYI if you recorded the pregame on ESPN, they stated Reich and company had a total of 3 plays scripted for game one. Wouldn't surprise me if game two wasn't much different.

[DougDew]

12 hours ago, JMichael557 said:

Luck does not hold the ball too long. I don't know why people continue to say that. If you are going to throw the ball down the field you have to hold the ball until the route develops. When he threw the ball to Rodgers did he hold it too long. Of Course not. When he was sacked it was a play down the filed and Clark failed to make any block.  If it is a quick route and the receiver is open he throws the ball. If not he will extend the play but he is not just holding the ball. 

Someone posted a stat last year or the year before, and Luck's time from taking the snap to releasing the ball was the longest in the NFL.  (last year, Brissett's was probably very high also). Most of us believe it is/was the function of 3 possible things, ranked in order.

 

Long developing routes and plays.

Receivers failing to get separation.

Luck looking for the big chunk yards instead of checkdowns (when one was even available in the play).

 

And because the time was long, it made the oline look even worse.  IOW, they had to hold their blocks longer than any other oline.

 

During the Raven pre-season game, I didn't see much of what I wanted to see in terms of offensive scheme change.  The plays looked similar than past seasons to me (maybe by design according to Reich).  That's what was disappointing to me.  I would like to see Luck look more like Nick Foles running the Philly offense (Yes, I just said that).  Until that time, I reserve the right to see a possibility that Luck himself simply looks down field way too much, is a big contributor to the slow starts and offensive struggles in certain games, which also led to his own injuries.

 

 

 

[aaron11]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Long developing routes and plays.

that was chudd's system, luck really didnt have much choice

 

our problem is no one is getting open fast enough, the QB doesnt have much choice but to wait

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

The Chud was back in the house on Monday Night but I think Reich called that type of game on purpose, can't show your hand. I thought against Seattle the play calling was Good just for a short stint, Luck was 6-9 in that game. After that back to Chud style = don't show your hand.

[DougDew]

Just now, aaron11 said:

that was chudd's system, luck really didnt have much choice

 

our problem is no one is getting open fast enough, the QB doesnt have much choice but to wait

 

I know, which is why many of us wanted a modern OC for a new HC.  But, until the offense looks more like Philly's and not Chud/Arians, Luck opens himself up to being thought of as part of the problem.  Just sayin'

 

And receivers not getting open has been a problem for years, and I've been saying it.  Its the reason I supported the drafting of Phillip Dorset.  He turned out to the the wrong player, but the positional strategy was sound at the time because when TY was double covered, neither a rehabbed Reggie or anyone else could beat single coverage.

 

I'm eagerly waiting for the O to look different, and have been for about 3 years.

[GoColts8818]

On 8/21/2018 at 5:32 PM, jvan1973 said:

If you're expecting greatness this year,   you're gonna be disappointed I'm afraid.    Luck hasn't played in a long time.   New coaches,  new schemes.    It won't happen over night

If they go 8-8 I’ll be thrilled.

[Yoshinator]

People are assuming Luck will return back to 2014 in short order. That's not a guarantee by any means, that's his ceiling at this point. The more likely scenario is there is a bit of permanent damage to Luck, and his recovery will make it so he will eventually be somewhere between 2014 Luck and how he is now. Right now, we don't know. However, we have to hope he improves over time. The longer he plays "rusty" and doesn't improve in real games, the less likely it is that he'll hit his 2014 potential again and his ceiling from here on out for the rest of his career will start to go down. 

 

He can throw the ball, and that's a good thing. However, he's not doing a lot else well right now. It's a lot tougher battle and a lot less of a guarantee then we think that he'll be back to normal 100%, much less improve the mistakes he's had his whole career at almost 29 years of age. Lets hope for the best.

[DougDew]

4 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

People are assuming Luck will return back to 2014 in short order. That's not a guarantee by any means, that's his ceiling at this point. The more likely scenario is there is a bit of permanent damage to Luck, and his recovery will make it so he will eventually be somewhere between 2014 Luck and how he is now. Right now, we don't know. However, we have to hope he improves over time. The longer he plays "rusty" and doesn't improve in real games, the less likely it is that he'll hit his 2014 potential again and his ceiling from here on out for the rest of his career will start to go down. 

 

He can throw the ball, and that's a good thing. However, he's not doing a lot else well right now. It's a lot tougher battle and a lot less of a guarantee then we think that he'll be back to normal 100%, much less improve the mistakes he's had his whole career at almost 29 years of age. Lets hope for the best.

After gaining complete confidence in his shoulder, hopefully at 90% of what it was pre-injury, he needs to learn a new offense, and gain timing with a revolving door receiving corps that may not have great talent to begin with.  TY and Doyle are comfortable, but it seems that everybody else is a fresh face nearly every week.

 

If Luck can manage to look like Case Keenum did last year, I'd be happy.

[ColtsBlueFL]

7 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

If they go 8-8 I’ll be thrilled.

 

Yes.  Likely we'll be below .500 in the first half, and over .500 to finish the season... with momentum and hope for 2019.

 

Luck and the Colts have never finished below .500 when he plays the season.  I don't wish it this year either.