Ongoing Colts 2018 draft talk........

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Since you're talking running backs here, I thought I'd join the conversation...

 

Short of finding a flat-out stud,   I too prefer RBBC...    but what I'm curious about from Ballard is this...    will he prefer another back who would contrast with Mack by being more of a power back..    like the Bears Jordan Howard, a 5th round pounder...     OR....    would he prefer to copy the Falcons,  a Dome/Carpet team that has two backs with more similar abilities...   Freeman and Coleman, whose strengths are more speed, quickness, and elusiveness..    would he prefer someone more similar to Mack?     I doubt Ballard will tip his hand until the Colts call the name draft night...    but I'd love to know his preference...     

 

 

I think all those guys you mentioned, besides Kamara, are much better with inside running than Mack has shown, so far. So if the Colts only added another guy like Mack, I think they'd be lacking at RB. 

 

I would like the Colts to add a more traditional back to share the backfield with Mack, and I don't think he absolutely has to come in the draft. And of course, I'm not a fan of using high draft picks on RBs, so the Jordan Howard kind of pick is what I'd prefer to see, if we do draft a back.

[NewColtsFan]

17 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think all those guys you mentioned, besides Kamara, are much better with inside running than Mack has shown, so far. So if the Colts only added another guy like Mack, I think they'd be lacking at RB. 

 

I would like the Colts to add a more traditional back to share the backfield with Mack, and I don't think he absolutely has to come in the draft. And of course, I'm not a fan of using high draft picks on RBs, so the Jordan Howard kind of pick is what I'd prefer to see, if we do draft a back.

 

I suppose Ballard could sign a FA RB in March.   But with back-to-back near historic classes of great running backs, I'd be disappointed if after the 17 and 18 drafts all we come away with is Mack.   And I really like Mack and glad we have him.  

 

Personally,  I think the Colts can find a quality back at the top of the 4th round.    I believe we will likely trade down a little,  3-5 picks,  and take an O-lineman in the 1st.   Then we will focus on defense on day 2...    before taking a more balanced approach on day 3...      I know you want BPA in every round and I think Ballard will do mostly that...    I just suspect our needs will match up with BPA and everyone will be happy...

 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I suppose Ballard could sign a FA RB in March.   But with back-to-back near historic classes of great running backs, I'd be disappointed if after the 17 and 18 drafts all we come away with is Mack.   And I really like Mack and glad we have him.  

 

Personally,  I think the Colts can find a quality back at the top of the 4th round.    I believe we will likely trade down a little 3-5 picks and take an O-lineman in the 1st.   Then we will focus on defense on day 2...    before taking a more balanced approach on day 3...      I know you want BPA in every round and I think Ballard will do mostly that...    I just suspect our needs will match up with BPA and everyone will be happy...

 

 

I'm not as familiar with this year's class of backs, so I'm not in love with anyone at this point and wouldn't be disappointed in missing out on any of them at this point... that can easily change.

 

As for my preferred approach, more relevant is that I don't want to spend high picks (especially #3 overall) on a RB that I think will only last 4-5 years in the league at a high level. 

 

Your trade down scenario would probably put us in range for Nelson from Notre Dame. I'm conflicted on that, but don't know enough about this year's class overall to have a legitimate opinion on what to do with our pick. Any disappointment I'd have from spending a top 5 pick on a guard would dissipate eventually if Nelson actually turns into what everyone says he will. 

 

The conflict comes more from the idea of finally having a high pick and not coming away with a pass rusher, because this is presumably going to be the best chance we have of drafting a blue chip prospect. All of that will depend on who comes out, how well they're graded, etc. I'm hoping the next Khalil Mack / Von Miller is in this year's draft, and available when we pick. If the alternative is moving back -- and picking up another first -- then I think I'll be able to get on board with that.

[NewColtsFan]

22 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not as familiar with this year's class of backs, so I'm not in love with anyone at this point and wouldn't be disappointed in missing out on any of them at this point... that can easily change.

 

As for my preferred approach, more relevant is that I don't want to spend high picks (especially #3 overall) on a RB that I think will only last 4-5 years in the league at a high level. 

 

Your trade down scenario would probably put us in range for Nelson from Notre Dame. I'm conflicted on that, but don't know enough about this year's class overall to have a legitimate opinion on what to do with our pick. Any disappointment I'd have from spending a top 5 pick on a guard would dissipate eventually if Nelson actually turns into what everyone says he will. 

 

The conflict comes more from the idea of finally having a high pick and not coming away with a pass rusher, because this is presumably going to be the best chance we have of drafting a blue chip prospect. All of that will depend on who comes out, how well they're graded, etc. I'm hoping the next Khalil Mack / Von Miller is in this year's draft, and available when we pick. If the alternative is moving back -- and picking up another first -- then I think I'll be able to get on board with that.

 

I figure if we trade back 3-5 spots we will then be picking 6-10 ish...      I figure Nelson or Williams or perhaps McGlinchy would be the guy then.

 

Your much desired pass rusher I think will come on Day 2 at the top of the 2nd round.    So, roughly pick 35.   Feels like there typicaly is a decent pass rusher available at the top of the 2nd.       Then, I'm thinking an inside linebacker in the 3rd.  That's a top-100 player (roughly 67) at a positon of need.     And if we trade back in the first,  I'm guessing we will get a good Day 2 pick to add to the defensive haul.    Three defensve picks on Day 2 would make everyone happy I would think....

 

Then a RB at the top of 4...   a Safety at the top of 5,  perhaps a tight end at the top of 6 and so on....    I think all will be there as BPA.     Combine that haul with Ballard being shrewd again in Free Agency and I think the 18 roster will look much, much improved over 17....      And that's even with a giant question-mark over Luck's head.    Add a healthy Luck and a better coaching staff, and then we're cooking with gas!

 

By the way,  when the time comes,   I think you're really going to like this class of RB's.     I think there is something for everyone.     This is another very, very strong class of RB's.     Back to back years.    I'd like another juicy bite at that apple please......    And I'm willing to wait until the start of Day 3 to have another good bite!

 

 

[colt18]

I'd be fine with Nelson, even at #3. I think the best case scenario is that we trade down, hopefully we get a couple firsts or a first and early second. 

[Dark Superman]

I never liked picking a running back in the top 10, but if there was ever worth one a top 5 pick it's Barkley.

[akcolt]

1 hour ago, Dark Superman said:

I never liked picking a running back in the top 10, but if there was ever worth one a top 5 pick it's Barkley.

I agree but with the holes we have I think we have to pass. Where is Mike Ditka when we need him?  I'm hoping to come away from the first 2 days with a terror off the edge and an athletic sideline to sideline ILB. Chubb and Scales are the two guys I'm looking at. Hopefully the OL is addressed in FA. I really like Harris/Penny as a consolation prize or later Freeman.  If Ballard is looking for a back he shouldn't have trouble finding an every down guy or one to pair with Mack. 

 

[Restored]

I'm honestly torn on what they should do. I've read a lot of good things about Barkley and how he's likely the most talented player in the draft (BPA). But then obviously there's Nelson from Notre Dame that could end up being one of the best guards in some years.

[pgt_rob]

10 minutes ago, Restored said:

I'm honestly torn on what they should do. I've read a lot of good things about Barkley and how he's likely the most talented player in the draft (BPA). But then obviously there's Nelson from Notre Dame that could end up being one of the best guards in some years.

 

A team with so many holes. Hard to just pick 1 player at #3. Good problem to have I suppose.

[csmopar]

11 hours ago, BOTT said:

I will quote bill Polian: don't draft guards in the first round.

I know.  Normally I'd agree. But everything I'm seeing and reading about Nelson is that he's better than over half the OLs in the league already.  That's BIG.  and while I'm usually the BPA type guy, in this case, I think the base player available at 3 is also going to be a position of need, either OL with Nelson or pass rush with Chubb.

[A8bil]

Saquan wont do anything behind this line but get hurt.  Mack too.  Solve the OL through the draft and FA and Mack will be more than serviceable.

[OLD FAN MAN]

if a qb is the best player on our board in rd one i say take a qb for an insurance policy just in case

[oldunclemark]

19 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

if a qb is the best player on our board in rd one i say take a qb for an insurance policy just in case

No, we have too many other needs...

...WE need much more on defense..and we must stock the line..

 

 

Id draft a QB late

[oldunclemark]

17 hours ago, Dark Superman said:

I never liked picking a running back in the top 10, but if there was ever worth one a top 5 pick it's Barkley.

RB isnt a glaring need with us...a team with glaring needs

[NewColtsFan]

31 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

RB isnt a glaring need with us...a team with glaring needs

 

Well I guess glaring is in the eye of the beholder...  but in general, I agree that I don't want to spend a first,  especially a high first on a running back.    But I certainly hope we spend a 3 or a 4 to get another quality RB.     This is another good deep class..   I hope we get another solid back to pair with Mack. 

 

 

[Coltfreak]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

RB isnt a glaring need with us...a team with glaring needs

Ballard is not going to draft based on need. It will be BPA 

which if you think about we need upgrades at every position 

[Coltfreak]

As far as taking a RB in the 1st.  Let's look at Dallas before Zekes suspension.  During it. And now when he's back

 

Is there enough of a difference there to justify using a pick on a RB with our 1st pick?

 

just wondering if  Barkley is still there when we pick. He would most likely be BPA   But I guess that may not be who is first on Ballards board.    And I assume he picks BPA with the exception of the rankings being close he would chose BPA with need 

[NewColtsFan]

27 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

Ballard is not going to draft based on need. It will be BPA 

which if you think about we need upgrades at every position 

 

I don't disagree...   I think Ballard proved that with last year's first round pick.

 

But...    when you're picking third overall (most likely) and have as many needs as we do, Ballard could pretty much pick any player he wants and claim he's BPA.   No way to know unless the guy is right out of left field.

 

Where it will get really interesting is the rest of the rounds...    maybe it was a coincidence, but all of our picks in days two and three last year were also our most pressing needs.    So was it really BPA or drafting for need on those rounds.

Perhaps a combination of both..  

 

I think we will all have a better feel for Ballard after this years free agency and draft..  

 

[ColtJax]

If Donald comes out you'll have Rosen, Donald and OU's  Baker Mayfield going 1-2-3 with Josh Adams still in the mix. The Colts could trade the rights to a Mayfield to the Bronco's for their #1 pick, #2 pick and next years #1.

[Myles]

On 12/21/2017 at 12:23 AM, Coltfreak said:

As far as taking a RB in the 1st.  Let's look at Dallas before Zekes suspension.  During it. And now when he's back

 

Remember,  Dallas had the best O line in the league.

 

I'm hoping they get Nelson.  Solidify that spot for a decade.  Helps both the run game and the passing game.

[BOTT]

On 12/21/2017 at 12:23 AM, Coltfreak said:

As far as taking a RB in the 1st.  Let's look at Dallas before Zekes suspension.  During it. And now when he's back

 

Is there enough of a difference there to justify using a pick on a RB with our 1st pick?

 

just wondering if  Barkley is still there when we pick. He would most likely be BPA   But I guess that may not be who is first on Ballards board.    And I assume he picks BPA with the exception of the rankings being close he would chose BPA with need 

Bill Polian was also a guy who went BPA....but he also believed in positional value.  He repeatedly said what he looked for in the first round......QB, pass rushers, LT, then guys who score touchdowns.  Outside of marlin jackson and rob Morris he stuck to that belief.

[aaron11]

On 12/21/2017 at 12:45 AM, NewColtsFan said:

Where it will get really interesting is the rest of the rounds...    maybe it was a coincidence, but all of our picks in days two and three last year were also our most pressing needs.    So was it really BPA or drafting for need on those rounds.

 

you could say almost any position was a need to some degree last year

 

every part of the offense has been under whelming.  dline was fine, but the lbs and dbs needed a lot of work, and still probably do depending on who comes back  

[richard pallo]

10 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Bill Polian was also a guy who went BPA....but he also believed in positional value.  He repeatedly said what he looked for in the first round......QB, pass rushers, LT, then guys who score touchdowns.  Outside of marlin jackson and rob Morris he stuck to that belief.

Guess who drafted Edgerrin James with the 4th. pick in the 1st. round.

[BOTT]

Just now, richard pallo said:

Guess who drafted Edgerrin James with the 4th. pick in the 1st. round.

And?

[richard pallo]

Just now, BOTT said:

And?

And he's a RB.

[BOTT]

1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

And he's a RB.

My point wasn't about running backs. It was about BPA and positional value.  

[richard pallo]

3 minutes ago, BOTT said:

My point wasn't about running backs. It was about BPA and positional value.  

  Polian obviously thought RB had a high position value or he wouldn't have taken Edge with the 4th. overall pick.  After reading you're complimentary remarks about Polian and how he values position value I'm sure you could support his pick of James at the RB position.  If a hall of fame GM believes a RB can go that high I think it would be fine if Ballard decides to go with BPA and if it's Barkley so be it.  He did have Elliot as his overall BPA the year he was drafted. 

[BOTT]

4 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

  Polian obviously thought RB had a high position value or he wouldn't have taken Edge with the 4th. overall pick.  After reading you're complimentary remarks about Polian and how he values position value I'm sure you could support his pick of James at the RB position.  If a hall of fame GM believes a RB can go that high I think it would be fine if Ballard decides to go with BPA and if it's Barkley so be it.  He did have Elliot as his overall BPA the year he was drafted. 

i can respect him and still disagree.  Personally, I wouldnt draft a rb or WR in the first.  Well, maybe a WR if I was drafting low and had a nice roster.

[Restored]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

  Polian obviously thought RB had a high position value or he wouldn't have taken Edge with the 4th. overall pick.  After reading you're complimentary remarks about Polian and how he values position value I'm sure you could support his pick of James at the RB position.  If a hall of fame GM believes a RB can go that high I think it would be fine if Ballard decides to go with BPA and if it's Barkley so be it.  He did have Elliot as his overall BPA the year he was drafted. 

I agree with this. If Ballard and co. truly believe that Barkley is the BPA, they should take him. Having a RB like that can truly change your offense.

[OLD FAN MAN]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

  Polian obviously thought RB had a high position value or he wouldn't have taken Edge with the 4th. overall pick.  After reading you're complimentary remarks about Polian and how he values position value I'm sure you could support his pick of James at the RB position.  If a hall of fame GM believes a RB can go that high I think it would be fine if Ballard decides to go with BPA and if it's Barkley so be it.  He did have Elliot as his overall BPA the year he was drafted. 

i concur

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

  Polian obviously thought RB had a high position value or he wouldn't have taken Edge with the 4th. overall pick.  After reading you're complimentary remarks about Polian and how he values position value I'm sure you could support his pick of James at the RB position.  If a hall of fame GM believes a RB can go that high I think it would be fine if Ballard decides to go with BPA and if it's Barkley so be it.  He did have Elliot as his overall BPA the year he was drafted. 

 

I'm sorry to step in like this...   but there's some historical context needed here...

 

Edge was drafted high in the first (along with Ricky Williams) in 1999.    The idea of NOT drafting a RB in the first because it's become a devalued position was roughly 8-10 years away.    The NFL had not warmed to that kind of analytic thinking by then, PLUS,  the rules changes that made the NFL more of a passing game and less of a running game were still years away.  

 

The idea of RB being less important I'd guess to be roughly 8-10 years old...   and has only gained serious momentum in the last 6-8 years...   

 

So Bill Polian thoughts on position importance in 1999 are less relevant...   remember..   Polian was still using first round picks on Addai and Brown in the mid to late 2000's...    that shows how recent a concept positional importance really is...

 

[WoolMagnet]

6 hours ago, richard pallo said:

And he's a RB.

Well, we had Manning so *check* on polians "qb" value.  

The 1999 draft was underwhelming (javon kearsecwas 1st off at 16.  Obviously the league didnt see blue chip

pass rushers in 99.

but edge did fit polians #3 factor..... player scores TDs.

we also had marvin, so pairing a young stud RB, with a young stud QB and a top receiver had to add to the decision.

[Dark Superman]

When the Colts drafted EJ their offense was pretty much set and all they needed was a true #2 WR and a stud RB. Everything else was pretty much set. The 2017 Colts have a ton of holes on both offense and defense, so who really knows who Ballard is gonna pick at 3.

[Coltfreak]

8 hours ago, Myles said:

Remember,  Dallas had the best O line in the league.

 

I'm hoping they get Nelson.  Solidify that spot for a decade.  Helps both the run game and the passing game.

Possibly.    I won't disagree with you.   But did the past RBs they had make the Oline look better and cover faults like Peyton did here? Or is it the Oline that makes Zeke or any of their RBs look good?

 

im not advocating FOR us to take a RB (in fact I am against it) my question is how much better are the Cowboys with Zeke as opposed to with their other RBs.   And they have a couple of very good back ups.  

 

Has anyone seen seen that much difference in Dallas in the absence of Zeke?

 

 

[DougDew]

Nick Chubb has been compared to Frank Gore coming out of college, so if we wanted the same style of RB, Chubb might be available in the early 3rd, but probably more likely the late 2nd if we did some trade downs early.

 

Gore had the same injury as Chubb in college but remained pretty durable, and Chubb is supposedly fully recovered after two years removed from surgery.

[Fluke_33]

17 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Nick Chubb has been compared to Frank Gore coming out of college, so if we wanted the same style of RB, Chubb might be available in the early 3rd, but probably more likely the late 2nd if we did some trade downs early.

 

Gore had the same injury as Chubb in college but remained pretty durable, and Chubb is supposedly fully recovered after two years removed from surgery.

So we’ll have an all * ...er...Chubb draft?

[Aluckiswolverine]

Get Nelson with the 3rd pick. Ballard spends $$$  in free agency on o-line. IMO Ballard realizes in 2018 the line has to be addressed.

 

We are not super bowl ready next season I could see us make the push 2019. This is all if Andrew is healthy which I expect him too be. 

[aaron11]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

The idea of RB being less important I'd guess to be roughly 8-10 years old...   and has only gained serious momentum in the last 6-8 years...   

 

 

 

we have had one go in the top 5 in each of the last three draft classes, and there will probably be another this year

 

some people say they are devalued and shouldnt be taken that high, yet real teams still do it

[RockThatBlue]

On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 6:19 PM, dgambill said:

Oh I do too...just not sure if NY ruined things beyond repair with the benching. I could see a team like Denver or Minnesota or Jacksonville being willing to take a couple years or Eli.

I hope he doesn't go to Jacksonville. Hell they are winning the division with a bottom 5 QB right now. Scary to think of them having Eli who will give them average to above average QB play. They could be a legit contender.

[richard pallo]

10 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

we have had one go in the top 5 in each of the last three draft classes, and there will probably be another this year

 

some people say they are devalued and shouldnt be taken that high, yet real teams still do it

Correct.  They say what goes around comes around.  That 1st. rd. argument is going out the window fast.