Ongoing Colts 2018 draft talk........

[NewColtsFan]

20 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

we have had one go in the top 5 in each of the last three draft classes, and there will probably be another this year

 

some people say they are devalued and shouldnt be taken that high, yet real teams still do it

 

 

I know...    fair points...    

 

I understand that not all 32 teams fully embrace the concept.    And I think some RBs are viewed as so good as to be considered exceptions to the rule.   I get all that.    

 

Ive even seen stories this year saying some teams now believe in the importance of the running game to the point of investing in a first round RB.

 

So perhaps the pendulum is swinging back the other way just a little bit...

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

we have had one go in the top 5 in each of the last three draft classes, and there will probably be another this year

 

some people say they are devalued and shouldnt be taken that high, yet real teams still do it

* last two draft classes

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

Correct.  They say what goes around comes around.  That 1st. rd. argument is going out the window fast.  

I hope so....push down talent to the Colts second round pick.

 

but the last 4 drafts there have been a total number of 4 running backs go in the first round....and that's including mccaffery, who is more of a pass catcher.

 

not my definition of fast

[aaron11]

12 minutes ago, BOTT said:

* last two draft classes

make that top 10

 

ok?

[BOTT]

Just now, aaron11 said:

make that top 10

 

ok?

You said 3 when it was 2.  Why the question mark?  Just a simple correction.

[aaron11]

Just now, BOTT said:

You said 3 when it was 2.  Why the question mark?  Just a simple correction.

its last three if we go by top ten

 

so thank you for that helpful correction 

[akcolt]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

I know...    fair points...    

 

I understand that not all 32 teams fully embrace the concept.    And I think some RBs are viewed as so good as to be considered exceptions to the rule.   I get all that.    

 

Ive even seen stories this year saying some teams now believe in the importance of the running game to the point of investing in a first round RB.

 

So perhaps the pendulum is swinging back the other way just a little bit...

We will see how Ballard feels about 1st round RB's. If you look at the backs taken in the 1st the last couple of years and there's been a few. Barkley looks like he's going to be the best of the bunch. The kid is.a freak He ran a 4.3 40 at around 225 great vision, sweet feet can run through or around you he can even jump over defenders in a single... He catches the ball as well as any RB. . He's the total package. He has no problems off the field and never injured on it. Is there a chink anywhere in his armor? Blocking?!

 

I am not a fan of taking a running back early let alone the 3rd pick but if Barkley is there Ballard has a tough call.  He may well be the best player in this draft  How can you be upset with the best player? I still prefer a pass rusher if Ballard grades someone that high or better yet trade back grab extra picks. We have hole and can get Harris or Penny day 2. Freeman among others could be around day 3.

 

There will be options at RB but we could pass on a rare talent. Let's forget the 4.3 whispers  if he runs under a 4.45 at 235-230 we are talking about guy we haven't seen before with his twitch. He could be the best RB in the league next year. He has the prototypical build 5'10 or 11" around 225lbs big legs low center of gravity. He's built for a long career. Tough call for Ballard 

[BOTT]

7 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

its last three if we go by top ten

 

so thank you for that helpful correction 

I didn't see where you wrote "make it top 10" when I first read your reply lol. My bad.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Connor Williams will look great in blue and white. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, akcolt said:

We will see how Ballard feels about 1st round RB's. If you look at the backs taken in the 1st the last couple of years and there's been a few. Barkley looks like he's going to be the best of the bunch. The kid is.a freak He ran a 4.3 40 at around 225 great vision, sweet feet can run through or around you he can even jump over defenders in a single... He catches the ball as well as any RB. . He's the total package. He has no problems off the field and never injured on it. Is there a chink anywhere in his armor? Blocking?!

 

I am not a fan of taking a running back early let alone the 3rd pick but if Barkley is there Ballard has a tough call.  He may well be the best player in this draft  How can you be upset with the best player? I still prefer a pass rusher if Ballard grades someone that high or better yet trade back grab extra picks. We have hole and can get Harris or Penny day 2. Freeman among others could be around day 3.

 

There will be options at RB but we could pass on a rare talent. Let's forget the 4.3 whispers  if he runs under a 4.45 at 235-230 we are talking about guy we haven't seen before with his twitch. He could be the best RB in the league next year. He has the prototypical build 5'10 or 11" around 225lbs big legs low center of gravity. He's built for a long career. Tough call for Ballard 

 

Phyically speaking...    I'm not sure he's much different from Founette or even Elliott...    Seriously.

 

And our defense needs so many difference makers I'd mean more towards Chubb.      And if we going to use a to-5 of too-10 pick on offense, then I'd rather trade back a few picks and go with Williams, Nelson, or McGlinchey.

 

At thus point in building a program, I think a top RB is more luxury than necessity.

 

Just my opinion...

 

 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, akcolt said:

We will see how Ballard feels about 1st round RB's. If you look at the backs taken in the 1st the last couple of years and there's been a few. Barkley looks like he's going to be the best of the bunch. The kid is.a freak He ran a 4.3 40 at around 225 great vision, sweet feet can run through or around you he can even jump over defenders in a single... He catches the ball as well as any RB. . He's the total package. He has no problems off the field and never injured on it. Is there a chink anywhere in his armor? Blocking?!

 

I am not a fan of taking a running back early let alone the 3rd pick but if Barkley is there Ballard has a tough call.  He may well be the best player in this draft  How can you be upset with the best player? I still prefer a pass rusher if Ballard grades someone that high or better yet trade back grab extra picks. We have hole and can get Harris or Penny day 2. Freeman among others could be around day 3.

 

There will be options at RB but we could pass on a rare talent. Let's forget the 4.3 whispers  if he runs under a 4.45 at 235-230 we are talking about guy we haven't seen before with his twitch. He could be the best RB in the league next year. He has the prototypical build 5'10 or 11" around 225lbs big legs low center of gravity. He's built for a long career. Tough call for Ballard 

On top of that he is only 20 yrs. old.

[Defjamz26]

3 hours ago, akcolt said:

We will see how Ballard feels about 1st round RB's. If you look at the backs taken in the 1st the last couple of years and there's been a few. Barkley looks like he's going to be the best of the bunch. The kid is.a freak He ran a 4.3 40 at around 225 great vision, sweet feet can run through or around you he can even jump over defenders in a single... He catches the ball as well as any RB. . He's the total package. He has no problems off the field and never injured on it. Is there a chink anywhere in his armor? Blocking?!

 

I am not a fan of taking a running back early let alone the 3rd pick but if Barkley is there Ballard has a tough call.  He may well be the best player in this draft  How can you be upset with the best player? I still prefer a pass rusher if Ballard grades someone that high or better yet trade back grab extra picks. We have hole and can get Harris or Penny day 2. Freeman among others could be around day 3.

 

There will be options at RB but we could pass on a rare talent. Let's forget the 4.3 whispers  if he runs under a 4.45 at 235-230 we are talking about guy we haven't seen before with his twitch. He could be the best RB in the league next year. He has the prototypical build 5'10 or 11" around 225lbs big legs low center of gravity. He's built for a long career. Tough call for Ballard 

Anyone who doesn't at least think Barkley should be in the conversation at #3 overall is fooling themselves. He's probably the best player in the draft regardless of position.

[OffensivelyPC]

On 12/17/2017 at 12:37 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm sorry.....

 

I thought someone (you?) commented that you wouldn't base your pick around who your coach is.     I took that to mean not just offense or defense,  but to scheme as well.      So, a defensive minded coach might want a certain lineman depending on if he runs a 3-4 or a 4-3.     Different requirements.

 

You might want a different quarterback depending on what you ask a QB to do.    Same with other positions.

 

That's all I was referring to......

 

I know I'm a little late on this, I just simply meant you don't draft offense or defense simply for the sake of your new HC. I'm not sure where exactly we disagreed, but we usually agree on these types of things with disagreements being in the minutia,  so I'll chalk it up to a minor misunderstanding.

[RockThatBlue]

The Colts need to draft Bradley Chubb IMO. 

[akcolt]

18 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Phyically speaking...    I'm not sure he's much different from Founette or even Elliott...    Seriously.

 

And our defense needs so many difference makers I'd mean more towards Chubb.      And if we going to use a to-5 of too-10 pick on offense, then I'd rather trade back a few picks and go with Williams, Nelson, or McGlinchey.

 

At thus point in building a program, I think a top RB is more luxury than necessity.

 

Just my opinion...

 

 

As I said I prefer a trading back getting extra picks. If we want a top RB Rashaad Penny is currently projecting as a 3rd rounder. That's.a steal for the second best back in this draft. He's 5'10 220lbs and explosive. He will probably climb boards after the show I expect at the Senior Bowl. We've discussed him earlier in the season. 

 

IMO Barkley is the best RB prospect in recent memory. I didn't think and still don't think Fournette's body is going to hold up. He isn't as good in the open field as Barkley doesn't have the speed or compare as a receiver. Yet he still made Bortles a top 10 QB.

 

The Elliott comparison I can see but  Barkley is the better back. I think Barkley is more explosive. He has more wiggle, better start stop and top end speed. The biggest difference there is no off the field issues for Barkley He appears to be miles ahead in maturity. 

 

If  we can't drop back or Chubb doesn't check out and Barkley is still there. Ballard will have a tough decision. Barkley is easily ahead of all the OL IMO check  out the numbers from BR Barkley is 5'11 233 pounds runs a 4.3 40 power cleans 405 lbs squatted 525 lbs x5 has no injury history and is only 20 yrs old.

 

The guy is a unicorn and it'll be tough to pass on him. I trust Ballard will get it right

[Jackie Daytona]

I love Barkley, and I think people here will freak out if Ballard does what I believe he will, and only adds a FA guard or two on the OL, maybe some later round picks....I think the team really likes Good, Haeg, and even Clark's potential....Clark was raw as heck coming out of college, and has perfect measurables, it takes time for all OL to develop, especially ones from non-pro-style college offenses.....  My thoughts here could all change if there is a dramatically different scene in FA, such as a very quality player getting cut, or a big trade made..... 

[dgambill]

22 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

I hope he doesn't go to Jacksonville. Hell they are winning the division with a bottom 5 QB right now. Scary to think of them having Eli who will give them average to above average QB play. They could be a legit contender.

The first half of the year yes....second half no....Blake bortles isn’t playing like a bottom qb....in fact he has been playing like an mvp qb. Once he figured out his defense will win him games and he settled down he has been good....but yeah a leader like Eli would be even harder to overcome.

[JColts72]

Qb, rb or d at 3. OL too high.

[dgambill]

All things being equal a rb is still dependent on his OL to be great. That said a great left tackle can protect a qbs blind side without help. A great pass rusher can get to the qb all on his own. A great qb can take a bad team and make them good (Luck). Perhaps things won’t be equal but if gratings are equal I take the pass rusher. I’ve seen plenty of avg backs be great behind a good OL. I don’t need Emmit Smith if I don’t have Larry Allen.

[dgambill]

22 hours ago, akcolt said:

We will see how Ballard feels about 1st round RB's. If you look at the backs taken in the 1st the last couple of years and there's been a few. Barkley looks like he's going to be the best of the bunch. The kid is.a freak He ran a 4.3 40 at around 225 great vision, sweet feet can run through or around you he can even jump over defenders in a single... He catches the ball as well as any RB. . He's the total package. He has no problems off the field and never injured on it. Is there a chink anywhere in his armor? Blocking?!

 

I am not a fan of taking a running back early let alone the 3rd pick but if Barkley is there Ballard has a tough call.  He may well be the best player in this draft  How can you be upset with the best player? I still prefer a pass rusher if Ballard grades someone that high or better yet trade back grab extra picks. We have hole and can get Harris or Penny day 2. Freeman among others could be around day 3.

 

There will be options at RB but we could pass on a rare talent. Let's forget the 4.3 whispers  if he runs under a 4.45 at 235-230 we are talking about guy we haven't seen before with his twitch. He could be the best RB in the league next year. He has the prototypical build 5'10 or 11" around 225lbs big legs low center of gravity. He's built for a long career. Tough call for Ballard 

It will be a tough call. He is very talented but some people think he is somehow perfect and he isn’t without his faults. He way way too often tries to break it to the outside and gives up on the design of the play. Doesn’t lower his pads and try to grind out tough yards instead tries to make the big play every time. His pass blocking is meh. His open field speed and elusiveness is off the charts but that initial burst at the line 0-10 say isn’t the same as the 10-60. Great back but he has faults like everyone. It will be a big decision for Ballard going forward. This pick could be the gem in his legacy. With the holes this team has on both sides of the ball I wouldn’t blame him for moving back and filing holes like Cleveland did....and since we have a qb....that can make a huge difference.

[Hoose]

15 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

The Colts need to draft Bradley Chubb IMO. 

Yes. 

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

All things being equal a rb is still dependent on his OL to be great. That said a great left tackle can protect a qbs blind side without help. A great pass rusher can get to the qb all on his own. A great qb can take a bad team and make them good (Luck). Perhaps things won’t be equal but if gratings are equal I take the pass rusher. I’ve seen plenty of avg backs be great behind a good OL. I don’t need Emmit Smith if I don’t have Larry Allen.

I take the pass rusher even if he has reasonably lower rating the the RB

[JMichael557]

You only pick hopefully in the top 3 on rare occasions. If we keep the pick you must get the best player. You certainly do not pick a guard. You need  a player that the other team has to game plan for each and every week. If we keep 3 and Barkley is there and is the best player you have to take him.  A great back keeps linebackers from dropping to quick and can affect the blitz.  My second choice is Conner Williams if healthy. We have to get an OT while we can or an elite pass rusher. 

[FalseStart]

I'm all for getting our line sured up in Free Agency with proven, experienced G/OTs.  Defense in the draft.  That being said, the choices, as I see them are;

 

2018

Round 1

1. *Trade out of the Pick. (2 First rounders 2018 & 2019 and a 2nd Rounder 2018)

2. Chubb DE

3. Barkley RB

4. Fitzpatrick CB

Round 2

1. Malik Jefferson ILB

2. Tavaras McFadden CB

3. Rashaan Evans ILB

4. Joshua Jackson CB

*Round2 (If Trade)

1. Josey Jewell ILB

2. Da'Ron Payne DT

3. Will Hernandez G

4. Billy Price G

Round 3

1. Braden Smith G

2. Martinas Rankin OT

3. Vita Vea DT

4. Reginald McKenzie Jr. DT

 

2 cents...

[Myles]

I'm warming up to Barkely a little bit.    I'd still prefer Nelson of all choices though.  

Allot could happen at the top of this draft.   Cleveland looks to have the 1st and 5th pick.   If they decide Mayfield is their QB of choice, they could take Barkely with the #1.  

[Superman]

2 hours ago, Myles said:

I'm warming up to Barkely a little bit.    I'd still prefer Nelson of all choices though.  

Allot could happen at the top of this draft.   Cleveland looks to have the 1st and 5th pick.   If they decide Mayfield is their QB of choice, they could take Barkely with the #1.  

 

I'm assuming John Dorsey had his hands all over the Patrick Mahomes pick last year. That's a much different QB profile than Baker Mayfield. I would be shocked if the Browns go that way at QB.

[colts2dasuperbowl]

On 12/15/2017 at 3:31 PM, GoColts8818 said:

I am leaning Chubb and investing heavily in Oline in free agency 

We need a MLB and a CB as well.

I would like us to pick Chubb and Oline in the first two rds and grab a MLB CB in the next two rds.

Or we can trade down and get multiple picks =)

 

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, colts2dasuperbowl said:

We need a MLB and a CB as well.

I would like us to pick Chubb and Oline in the first two rds and grab a MLB CB in the next two rds.

Or we can trade down and get multiple picks =)

 

Without question it’s not their only need.  I just think it’s the hardest need to fill without the draft.  The fact there is probably a top five guy available at that position and the Colts have a top five pick makes him attractive so we pretty much agree.

 

id like to see them nab a corner and proven olinemen with their free agency money because I think they need a vet in the secondary and I think with Luck comingback after being banged up id rather have ready to go guys without having to wait for them to develop.

 

they will also need some help at WR.  Hilton and Rodgers might be the only two back.  

[Superman]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

they will also need some help at WR.  Hilton and Rodgers might be the only two back.  

 

Yup. I'd keep Moncrief on the right deal, and sign a guy like Paul Richardson or Allen Robinson (assuming he's healthy), and whatever happens in the draft happens. 

[stitches]

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yup. I'd keep Moncrief on the right deal, and sign a guy like Paul Richardson or Allen Robinson (assuming he's healthy), and whatever happens in the draft happens. 

What about Watkins? I kind of want Watkins ahead of any other free agent WR... 

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, stitches said:

What about Watkins? I kind of want Watkins ahead of any other free agent WR... 

 

I'm super interested in receivers and backs who are dangerous with the ball in their hands and make defenders miss. I don't think that's Watkins.

[stitches]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm super interested in receivers and backs who are dangerous with the ball in their hands and make defenders miss. I don't think that's Watkins.

Jarvis Landry? 

[Superman]

Just now, stitches said:

Jarvis Landry? 

 

I'd love Jarvis Landry, but I think he'll be too rich. 

[stitches]

11 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'd love Jarvis Landry, but I think he'll be too rich. 

Yeah... Ballard still has a ton of money to spend. I kind of am of the mind that this summer should be dedicated on acquiring blue chippers (any way possible - draft, free agency), so I wouldn't mind him giving some serious money to top tier guys. I'd rather us have 1 top tier guy than 2 meh... 

 

On the WR core - we desperately need a consistent red-zone target. A bit of a different dimension to what TY gives us - big strong receiver with secure hands. That's why I'm thinking about Watkins. He also has some straight line speed... 

[dgambill]

58 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yup. I'd keep Moncrief on the right deal, and sign a guy like Paul Richardson or Allen Robinson (assuming he's healthy), and whatever happens in the draft happens. 

Do you think Ballard will re-sign Moncrief. He is another Grigson guy that has been spotty at best. I just don’t see it honestly (even if I wouldn’t mind it on the right deal). If we re-sign Moncrief (outside wr) then Landry is the perfect fit for this offense in the slot. Add a big athletic project in the middle rounds and I think that is a good core. Landry and Watkins will be the big names in FA and probably command top dollar but I think we have the resources to pull it off and I think it’s a priority and one that I think production can be easily translated to our team. If we let Moncrief go then I could see Robinson and Watkins be targets.

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

Yeah... Ballard still has a ton of money to spend. I kind of am of the mind that this summer should be dedicated on acquiring blue chippers (any way possible - draft, free agency), so I wouldn't mind him giving some serious money to top tier guys. I'd rather us have 1 top tier guy than 2 meh... 

 

On the WR core - we desperately need a consistent red-zone target. A bit of a different dimension to what TY gives us - big strong receiver with secure hands. That's why I'm thinking about Watkins. He also has some straight line speed... 

 

I agree on going after some blue chippers, but my preference would be OL and corner, then filling holes in the lineup with serviceable guys. I think we can come away with three top tier free agents, but I wouldn't want to spend big on a FA receiver right now.

 

As for Watkins, he has the physical profile, but he has never produced at a level that makes me want him, not for the amount of money I'm assuming he'll be asking for. Moncrief gave us 7 TDs in 9 games last year. I'd rather keep Moncrief with a new staff for one season.

[dgambill]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I agree on going after some blue chippers, but my preference would be OL and corner, then filling holes in the lineup with serviceable guys. I think we can come away with three top tier free agents, but I wouldn't want to spend big on a FA receiver right now.

 

As for Watkins, he has the physical profile, but he has never produced at a level that makes me want him, not for the amount of money I'm assuming he'll be asking for. Moncrief gave us 7 TDs in 9 games last year. I'd rather keep Moncrief with a new staff for one season.

I’d rather spend on those guys too....just not sure there will be any blue chip lineman get away for us to go after...whatever the case I’m spending money this offseason to fill holes that I don’t want to fill in the draft and that to me is a starting wr that can take coverage off Hilton...and to get that we would have to invest a high pick...so even though I wish I didn’t have too...I think it’s the logical direction. Just look at what Jefferies has done to help Philly and despite Watkins numbers he has drawn so much attention that lesser guys like Kupp etc have been able to run free. I’m afraid we have our hands tied....especially since the Dorsett pick didn’t work out.

[Myles]

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I agree on going after some blue chippers, but my preference would be OL and corner, then filling holes in the lineup with serviceable guys. I think we can come away with three top tier free agents, but I wouldn't want to spend big on a FA receiver right now.

 

As for Watkins, he has the physical profile, but he has never produced at a level that makes me want him, not for the amount of money I'm assuming he'll be asking for. Moncrief gave us 7 TDs in 9 games last year. I'd rather keep Moncrief with a new staff for one season.

Hopefully we can sign Moncreif on the cheap.  

Most importantly for the Colts is the offensive line.    They need to do more than just sign a cheap free agent.  That's why I prefer drafting Nelson.

[GoColts00]

On 12/15/2017 at 2:01 PM, Myles said:

I hope not.  A team cannot do as much with the 6th pick as they could with the 3rd.  

I hate to root against the Colts, but I do hope they continue losing.  

What if we lose to houston, but trade cleveland the #3 for their #6, #34 and their 6th Rd pick?

[Myles]

3 minutes ago, GoColts00 said:

What if we lose to houston, but trade cleveland the #3 for their #6, #34 and their 6th Rd pick?

That would be OK.   Then we could take Nelson at 6.