Marlon Mack: Can someone explain this?

[threeflight]

Let's get this out of the way.  Frank Gore is a great teammate and has been a very good runner for many years.  He is a credit to the team and the NFL.

 

But let's be honest, he is on the very back end of his career and he offers NOTHING to the Colts as far as what is their future.  Nothing.  He won't even be here next year.

 

So why, why, WHY does the coaching staff insist on giving him so many touches when you have a potential starting RB, and maybe a star, in Marlon Mack?  Mack is the future.  Or maybe not.  But why not find out now when the season is lost anyway??

 

Every time Gore is in the game, the DE's rush full tilt towards the QB and totally ignore him.  Where as when Mack comes in?  They aim straight for him and many times he is hit in the backfield, where as Gore hardly ever is.  That is because the D knows what is coming and is NOT afraid of Gore, but they are afraid of Mack.

 

Not only that, they rarely throw screens to him or pitches outside like you see with so many other RB's.  

This is totally 100% the coaches fault.

 

And the thing is, it makes no sense.  I don't think anyone expects the Colts to win a lot with out Luck.  So Pagano's best shot of keeping his job is too develop the young guys.  Ballard has even said that.  And yet he refuses to play him enough.  It defies logic!

 

I don't get it.  Other than Pagano is an *.

[gacoop1]

I agree

[csmopar]

Pretty much spot on

[richard pallo]

The fact is:   If Mack was so good he should have supplanted Gore by now.  He hasn't earned the PT IMO.  Sure he makes some exciting plays once in awhile but for the most part he isn't producing on a consistent basis. Gore is more effective behind that same crummy line.  Mack is not.  He's a good change of pace guy but nothing more unless he proves it on the field.  He's had plenty of chances but Gore consistently outplays him.  I would guess Gore is showing better in practice as well.  This off season It would be great if we could acquire an every down back through the draft or FA to replace Gore.   Mack has not shown enough to date to replace an aging Gore.  He has six more games though so maybe he can get started.  I hope I'm wrong but he's starting to follow the path of some of our other recent RB draft choices.  

[Trace Pyott]

I was wondering why it seems like Mack is always hit in the backfield basically as soon as he touches the ball. Watching the game I was starting to wonder what he did to make all the o line hate him so much and not block for him. This offense is so boring and predictable. A coaching change cannot come fast enough for me. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

The fact is:   If Mack was so good he should have supplanted Gore by now.  He hasn't earned the PT IMO.  Sure he makes someutside exciting plays once in awhile but for the most part he isn't producing on a consistent basis. Gore is more effective behind that same crummy line.  Mack is not.  He's a good change of pace guy but nothing more unless he proves it on the field.  He's had plenty of chances but Gore consistently outplays him.  I would guess Gore is showing better in practice as well.  This off season It would be great if we could acquire an every down back through the draft or FA to replace Gore.   Mack has not shown enough to date to replace an aging Gore.  He has six more games though so maybe he can get started.  I hope I'm wrong but he's starting to follow the path of some of our other recent RB draft choices.  

they try to use him the same as gore, up the middle, with his speed he could run outside

[jvan1973]

He is electric,    bit Gore rarely takes a loss on a run.   If we keep losing,   I'm guessing mack will get more touches

[threeflight]

Someone wrote about it.  I will try and find the link.

 

The difference is when Gore is in, the DE's aim straight for the  QB and forget about Gore because he is not a home run threat. That is why the gaps are more open for Gore. When Mack is in, the DE's forget about the QB and aim straight for Mack because chances are they are going to him and they know he is a home run threat.

 

So, that is on the coaches.  Mack is fighting against 2 extra players (the DE's) that Gore is not.  The coaches either need to come up with plays that counter act that, or play Mack more so the DE's cannot tee off on him all of the time. 

[Aluckiswolverine]

14 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

The fact is:   If Mack was so good he should have supplanted Gore by now.  He hasn't earned the PT IMO.  Sure he makes some exciting plays once in awhile but for the most part he isn't producing on a consistent basis. Gore is more effective behind that same crummy line.  Mack is not.  He's a good change of pace guy but nothing more unless he proves it on the field.  He's had plenty of chances but Gore consistently outplays him.  I would guess Gore is showing better in practice as well.  This off season It would be great if we could acquire an every down back through the draft or FA to replace Gore.   Mack has not shown enough to date to replace an aging Gore.  He has six more games though so maybe he can get started.  I hope I'm wrong but he's starting to follow the path of some of our other recent RB draft choices.  

Not true, Pagano’s homerism for Gore from their time at the U is why Gore is starting. There are several examples of Pagano not starting clearly talented players over veterans. I’m not listing any yiu csn look it up. To the OP your answer is Pagano is a bad head coach. Probably worst in the league. 

[threeflight]

2 minutes ago, Aluckiswolverine said:

Not true, Pagano’s homerism for Gore from their time at the U is why Gore is starting. There are several examples of Pagano not starting clearly talented players over veterans. I’m not listing any yiu csn look it up. To the OP your answer is Pagano is a bad head coach. Probably worst in the league. 

Ahhhh.  I forgot about that.  The Miami connection.  That makes total sense.

 

What is bewildering is most coaches always go for the more explosive, younger player at RB.  It is just the nature of the position.  But with Gore, it is the opposite.  

 

But yeah, that makes total sense.  I'ms surprised Ballard hasn't stepped in and told the coaching staff to start playing Mack more and to get him more plays in space.  After all, a draft pick next year may depend on it.  Better to find out what you have now.

[ColtsBlueFL]

38 minutes ago, threeflight said:

Let's get this out of the way.  Frank Gore is a great teammate and has been a very good runner for many years.  He is a credit to the team and the NFL.

 

But let's be honest, he is on the very back end of his career and he offers NOTHING to the Colts as far as what is their future.  Nothing.  He won't even be here next year.

 

So why, why, WHY does the coaching staff insist on giving him so many touches when you have a potential starting RB, and maybe a star, in Marlon Mack?  Mack is the future.  Or maybe not.  But why not find out now when the season is lost anyway??

 

Because, GM's and front office worry about the future, teams worry about today.

 

Quote

 

Every time Gore is in the game, the DE's rush full tilt towards the QB and totally ignore him.  Where as when Mack comes in?  They aim straight for him and many times he is hit in the backfield, where as Gore hardly ever is.  That is because the D knows what is coming and is NOT afraid of Gore, but they are afraid of Mack.

 

???

 

Quote

Not only that, they rarely throw screens to him or pitches outside like you see with so many other RB's.  

This is totally 100% the coaches fault.

 

And the thing is, it makes no sense.  I don't think anyone expects the Colts to win a lot with out Luck.  So Pagano's best shot of keeping his job is too develop the young guys.  Ballard has even said that.  And yet he refuses to play him enough.  It defies logic!

 

I don't get it.  Other than Pagano is an *.

 

Look iit's not all about Mack.  Every player on this roster deserves due consideration.  Frank is a veteran, starter, and producing.  You don't bench him just because you want to see a rookie under fire.  In addition, there is fallout from doing so.  Say Frank doesn't end up here next year.  but what other Free Agent would sign, knowing coaches will kick them to the curb to evaluate rookies at first chance?  Not only that, what about contracts?  That starter you bench might be closing in on NFL milestones, and also many contract incentives that may be reached.  Bench him, and they don't get achieved, and the player does not earn bonuses.  Now FA's really will look to other teams.  At a later time, then Fans wonder why super hot FA XxX signs with some other perceived horrid team, rather than the Colts...  There's likely a plethora of other reasons to be accounted for too.

 

When a decision is made, one must  look at the complete picture and the potential fallout or friendly fire delivered.

[throwing BBZ]

24 minutes ago, threeflight said:

Let's get this out of the way.  Frank Gore is a great teammate and has been a very good runner for many years.  He is a credit to the team and the NFL.

 

But let's be honest, he is on the very back end of his career and he offers NOTHING to the Colts as far as what is their future.  Nothing.  He won't even be here next year.

 

So why, why, WHY does the coaching staff insist on giving him so many touches when you have a potential starting RB, and maybe a star, in Marlon Mack?  Mack is the future.  Or maybe not.  But why not find out now when the season is lost anyway??

 

Every time Gore is in the game, the DE's rush full tilt towards the QB and totally ignore him.  Where as when Mack comes in?  They aim straight for him and many times he is hit in the backfield, where as Gore hardly ever is.  That is because the D knows what is coming and is NOT afraid of Gore, but they are afraid of Mack.

 

Not only that, they rarely throw screens to him or pitches outside like you see with so many other RB's.  

This is totally 100% the coaches fault.

 

And the thing is, it makes no sense.  I don't think anyone expects the Colts to win a lot with out Luck.  So Pagano's best shot of keeping his job is too develop the young guys.  Ballard has even said that.  And yet he refuses to play him enough.  It defies logic!

 

I don't get it.  Other than Pagano is an *.

 

 Don't think so rookie.
 Gore is slower than Mack right?  Well maybe NOT.
 Gore gets the hand off and BOLTS at the line hitting a hole that Mack probably still can't see.
 Mack takes a fraction of a sec to look for a hole and gets caught. Think Trent R.
  Afraid of Mack. Oh no little one.
 They can Blitz KNOWING if it is play action they will likely BURN Mack trying to block.
  If it is handed off, they get to him because he has that hesitation.
  When they respect his blocking and he hits the hole faster he will earn more PT.
    Screens, pitches? Our O-Lineman can't execute those plays.Haven't been able to for years and years.
  It takes athleticism, speed, experience. Maybe next year. 

[richard pallo]

1 minute ago, Aluckiswolverine said:

Not true, Pagano’s homerism for Gore from their time at the U is why Gore is starting. There are several examples of Pagano not starting clearly talented players over veterans. I’m not listing any yiu csn look it up. To the OP your answer is Pagano is a bad head coach. Probably worst in the league. 

Gore has been clearly outplaying him.  It's not even close.  

[threeflight]

1 minute ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Because, GM's and front office worry about the future, teams worry about today.

 

 

???

 

 

Look iit's not all about Mack.  Evey player on this roster deserves due consideration.  Frank is a veteran, starter, and producing.  Yo don't bench him just because you want to see a rookie under fire.  In addition, there is fallout from doing so.  Say frank doesn't end up here next year.  but what other Free Agent would sign, knowing coaches will kick them to the curb to evaluate rookies?  Not only that, what about contracts?  That starter you bench might be closing in on NFL milestones, and also many contract incentives to be reached.  Bench him, and they don't get achieved, and the player does not earn bonuses.  Now FA's really will look to other teams.  At a later time, then Fans wonder why super hot FA XxX signs with some other perceived horrid team, rather than the Colts...  There's likely a plethora of other reasons to be accounted for too.

 

When a decision is made, one must  look at the complete picture and the potential fallout or friendly fire delivered.

No true.  Ballard has stated the development of the young guys is just as important, if not more so, the wins and losses.  And everyone knows the Colts aren't going anywhere this year.

[ColtsBlueFL]

3 minutes ago, threeflight said:

No true.  Ballard has stated the development of the young guys is just as important, if not more so, the wins and losses.  And everyone knows the Colts aren't going anywhere this year.

 

Developing younger players doesn't mean giving them the starters position over the veteran players on the roster.  That's your definition.  Someone should ask Ballard to define his, so everyone will know and not infer what they feel.

[richard pallo]

7 minutes ago, Aluckiswolverine said:

Not true, Pagano’s homerism for Gore from their time at the U is why Gore is starting. There are several examples of Pagano not starting clearly talented players over veterans. I’m not listing any yiu csn look it up. To the OP your answer is Pagano is a bad head coach. Probably worst in the league. 

BTW Pagano cut the former all pro receiver from Houston who was also from the U.  He wasn't producing.  Gore is. 

[superrep1967]

1 hour ago, threeflight said:

Let's get this out of the way.  Frank Gore is a great teammate and has been a very good runner for many years.  He is a credit to the team and the NFL.

 

But let's be honest, he is on the very back end of his career and he offers NOTHING to the Colts as far as what is their future.  Nothing.  He won't even be here next year.

 

So why, why, WHY does the coaching staff insist on giving him so many touches when you have a potential starting RB, and maybe a star, in Marlon Mack?  Mack is the future.  Or maybe not.  But why not find out now when the season is lost anyway??

 

Every time Gore is in the game, the DE's rush full tilt towards the QB and totally ignore him.  Where as when Mack comes in?  They aim straight for him and many times he is hit in the backfield, where as Gore hardly ever is.  That is because the D knows what is coming and is NOT afraid of Gore, but they are afraid of Mack.

 

Not only that, they rarely throw screens to him or pitches outside like you see with so many other RB's.  

This is totally 100% the coaches fault.

 

And the thing is, it makes no sense.  I don't think anyone expects the Colts to win a lot with out Luck.  So Pagano's best shot of keeping his job is too develop the young guys.  Ballard has even said that.  And yet he refuses to play him enough.  It defies logic!

 

I don't get it.  Other than Pagano is an *.

Yeah, every time Mack comes in they run him so there not fooling anybody. 

[Indy1996]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

The fact is:   If Mack was so good he should have supplanted Gore by now.  He hasn't earned the PT IMO.  Sure he makes some exciting plays once in awhile but for the most part he isn't producing on a consistent basis. Gore is more effective behind that same crummy line.  Mack is not.  He's a good change of pace guy but nothing more unless he proves it on the field.  He's had plenty of chances but Gore consistently outplays him.  I would guess Gore is showing better in practice as well.  This off season It would be great if we could acquire an every down back through the draft or FA to replace Gore.   Mack has not shown enough to date to replace an aging Gore.  He has six more games though so maybe he can get started.  I hope I'm wrong but he's starting to follow the path of some of our other recent RB draft choices.  

wth you saying learn your football when they block for gore but cant block for nothing mack shows you why he cant do anything is because of the oline

[richard pallo]

Just now, Indy1996 said:

wth you saying learn your football when they block for gore but cant block for nothing mack shows you why he cant do anything is because of the oline

I hate to tell you but the same guys are blocking for both of them.  Gore produces Mack has not.  Same crummy line.

[Dark Superman]

I can see your point, but this season is already gone, so why throw Mack into the fire this year?

Keep him fresh. He's our future. Let Gore take the load this season in order to keep Mack fresh. The less we use Mack this season, the less tape our opponents will have on him.

Keep thinking long term. That's how I'm approaching this.

[Indy1996]

13 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I hate to tell you but the same guys are blocking for both of them.  Gore produces Mack has not.  Same crummy line.

Ok how about you be behind the line that cant even block for our qb

[Trace Pyott]

Yah I don't think it's because Mack is hesitating or gore is out playing him. I think it's because they are in the backfield as soon as he touches the ball. I guess the theory that the defense keys on him because they know it's going to be handed to him holds weight. 

[AKB]

3 minutes ago, Indy1996 said:

Ok how about you be behind the line that cant even block for our qb

So pass blocking and run blocking are the same thing?

[krunk]

I thought we should have stuck with more Gore in the second half. He was the hot hand. Should have maybe found more creative ways to get the ball to Mack in the passing game to burn some of that blitzing.

[krunk]

On the ground we didnt block very well for Mack i think.

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, Aluckiswolverine said:

Not true, Pagano’s homerism for Gore from their time at the U is why Gore is starting. There are several examples of Pagano not starting clearly talented players over veterans. I’m not listing any yiu csn look it up. To the OP your answer is Pagano is a bad head coach. Probably worst in the league. 

The offense looks "calmer" with Gore in there.  He's smart and we need that to help protect the QB.  I think Gore is running as well as he has since arriving here.

on Mack, i think he'd be more successful with plays and packages designed for him.  At least until we can strengthen the OL.

[krunk]

i still would love to see us run the same scheme the Denver Broncos run as far as the ground game is concerned. A committee of backs using the one cut ZBS. Mack would do well in that system.

[The Peytonator]

They’re keeping Mack fresh for next year’s 2,000 yard rushing, MVP, Super Bowl campaign. 

[bluebombers87]

Apologies if it’s already been said but I think Gore is the better blocker. With our line you gotta play it safe(r).

[aaron11]

mack averages 2.7 ypc in losses and 6.7 in wins

 

im not sure exactly what to make of that but today he had 7 carries for 7 yards, he just wasnt effective 

 

[will426]

It's pretty simple we use force him up the middle when he should be used on outside runs say stretch plays where he can cutback make  a guy miss 

[#12.]

3 hours ago, threeflight said:

or pitches outside

Has there been one?

 

There are numerous ways to get the ball into Mack's hands.  A good OC could create one hell of a weekly package for him.  

[Defjamz26]

3 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Gore has been clearly outplaying him.  It's not even close.  

It’s easy to get outplayed when you don’t get the ball. Or when the coaching staff doesn’t play to your strengths. 

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, threeflight said:

Let's get this out of the way.  Frank Gore is a great teammate and has been a very good runner for many years.  He is a credit to the team and the NFL.

 

But let's be honest, he is on the very back end of his career and he offers NOTHING to the Colts as far as what is their future.  Nothing.  He won't even be here next year.

 

So why, why, WHY does the coaching staff insist on giving him so many touches when you have a potential starting RB, and maybe a star, in Marlon Mack?  Mack is the future.  Or maybe not.  But why not find out now when the season is lost anyway??

 

Every time Gore is in the game, the DE's rush full tilt towards the QB and totally ignore him.  Where as when Mack comes in?  They aim straight for him and many times he is hit in the backfield, where as Gore hardly ever is.  That is because the D knows what is coming and is NOT afraid of Gore, but they are afraid of Mack.

 

Not only that, they rarely throw screens to him or pitches outside like you see with so many other RB's.  

This is totally 100% the coaches fault.

 

And the thing is, it makes no sense.  I don't think anyone expects the Colts to win a lot with out Luck.  So Pagano's best shot of keeping his job is too develop the young guys.  Ballard has even said that.  And yet he refuses to play him enough.  It defies logic!

 

I don't get it.  Other than Pagano is an *.

 

Oh boy...   another of these rants....

 

Here we go...

 

Gore plays more then Mack because the team is still trying to win.    The team is not yet at the point where they care more about seeing what players can do rather than winning.

 

That may change at some point before the season is out, but not yet.

 

And as much as they may want to,  fans can't have it both ways.     You can't complain about not beating a great team like Pittsburgh while at the same time crying that your favorite rookie doesn't play more.

 

Mack is getting more snaps and more touches.   But the team still wants to win.

 

And you can't expect Pagano to care more about NEXT YEARS players than he does about THIS YEARS games.    That's just not right on any level.

 

Come on now........

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, will426 said:

It's pretty simple we use force him up the middle when he should be used on outside runs say stretch plays where he can cutback make  a guy miss 

 

Things are almost never as simple as fans think they are....

 

In your scenario you have just made us completely predictable.   

 

When Gore is in,  he will run between the tackles.

 

When Mack is in,  he will run to the outside.

 

Every defense will know our tendences simply based on who we put in.

 

We want Mack to be able to do most everything,  certainly more than what he's capable of doing now.    Otherwise, we are completely predictable.

 

 

[will426]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Things are almost never as simple as fans think they are....

 

In your scenario you have just made us completely predictable.   

 

When Gore is in,  he will run between the tackles.

 

When Mack is in,  he will run to the outside.

 

Every defense will know our tendences simply based on who we put in.

 

We want Mack to be able to do most everything,  certainly more than what he's capable of doing now.    Otherwise, we are completely predictable.

 

 

Understand that but I mean let's not run him up the middle 90% of the time when we also run gore up the middle 90% of the time  

[lollygagger8]

As soon as Gore gets the ball he's almost always already in motion. Mack takes a second to look for the hole instead of just trusting it'll be there. That's why Gore will get yards out of nothing, and Mack gets hit in the backfield constantly. 

 

I love Mack, but he has only produced when he's had open space. Either bouncing it outside, or catching a ball and running with it. Gore produces regardless of where he's at.

[DaveA1102]

Even with Mack's ability to break away, the last three games have seen Gore average 3.7 yards on 50 carries whereas Mack was 2.3 yards from 27 carries.  Gore has found the tough yards and, as mentioned before, is so reliable on protection.

 

Another area to consider is the passing game, where Mack has had a few drops (sure there was at least a couple yesterday).  Gore has been good at taking the check down/screens and gaining yards.

 

I don't see Mack as our future RB1, I see us getting another power back next year in the draft and using them as complementary to each other, but Mack has to improve on protection and getting those tough yards.

[tfunky14]

Easy watch the 2 play...

[TheMarine]

Watching Mack run, I wish we would do the old school Colts stretch runs that used to be Edge's bread and butter