[Speculation] Jack Doyle to test free agency (Merged)

[southwest1]

On February 12, 2017 at 0:52 AM, Buck Showalter said:

True, but Ballard may place a slightly higher value on consistency, which may not be a bad thing.

While I fully expect Ballard to do some house cleaning, bringing back some of the players/elements that were working or at least were an asset, probably wouldn't be a horrible idea either...

I'm definitely team Doyle...

 

Yes Buck, there were times this season where Jack was the lightning rod that got us in an offensive rhythm when we desperately needed to generate points early & Doyle has a nose for the end zone. 

5 hours ago, jskinnz said:

My two cents...

 

I believe they are stuck with Allen and his contract so it depends on who they like more between Doyle and Swoope.  To me that answer is Swoope.  I understand the sample size is small but I think he has superior athleticism and presents a huge match-up problem.  

 

I think paying Doyle market value when added to Allen's contract is far too expensive for that position.  I believe they can keep Swoope around for another year on team friendly deal and then can gauge if he developed more from his impressive start last year.    

Krunk, another guy I respect on here like a brother would probably agree with with you Jskinnz. You make a compelling case for Swoope in his short time here. I'd hate to see Jack go, but this is a business & Swoope has shown flashes of brilliance. 

 

Nice post. Ideally, I'd prefer to keep Jack intact, but like you say, INDY will roll on & win regardless of whether Doyle is here or not. 

[DaltonDamaja]

Going to pretend I didn't read this lol

 

[Coltswarriors]

It will be a mistake if we let him go...

[Jdubu]

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 8:02 PM, jameszeigler834 said:

I would say4 years 15 to 20 million if he wants more than that move on. if he really wants to be back then he will sign a reasonable contract he has had one really good year that alone doesn't make him a 50-60 million tight end.

5 million a year and I just don't think I could justify much more unless they moved Allen and made Doyle the #1 TE target. Swoope is an up and coming TE but he is a stretch the field guy, the 2 players aren't the same strategy types. I could see the team coming up with a strategy of paying Doyle, cutting or trading Allen next season and then signing Swoope to a modest 3 year contract. I like how Swoope shields the ball with his frame and I like the way Doyle catches the ball. I don't have too much I care about Allen in the way he plays.

 

[jameszeigler834]

22 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

5 million a year and I just don't think I could justify much more unless they moved Allen and made Doyle the #1 TE target. Swoope is an up and coming TE but he is a stretch the field guy, the 2 players aren't the same strategy types. I could see the team coming up with a strategy of paying Doyle, cutting or trading Allen next season and then signing Swoope to a modest 3 year contract. I like how Swoope shields the ball with his frame and I like the way Doyle catches the ball. I don't have too much I care about Allen in the way he plays.

 

Keep both of those two cut allen because he stinks.

[Jdubu]

2 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Keep both of those two cut allen because he stinks.

There is zero cost savings to cut him, at least in this season. Next season he is cuttable though

[esmort]

2 hours ago, Jdubu said:

There is zero cost savings to cut him, at least in this season. Next season he is cuttable though

 

Actually we would save ~$3 million if we cut him... But, I am not advocating cutting Allen, I would carry all three TEs this season and see how things shake out. 

[theanarchist]

9 hours ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

As Superman points out, the contract Allen got was pretty weird. 

 

The fact that Allen got paid what he got paid and the fact that Doyle flat out out-performed him this year, means Doyle should have the opportunity to get paid as much or more.  I would like to see Doyle back, but my point is that he isn't an 'irreplacable player', we probably really only have 2 or 3 of them on our roster: Luck, Vontae, and TY (IMO, TY could be argued about).  Sure there are guys I would rather us keep and who I like on the Colts, but it isn't like we couldn't find someone for cheaper or in the draft that isn't comparable to Doyle.  Based on what his co-TE gets paid and based on the fact Doyle outperformed that guy, you are right, he is worth what Allen got paid last year.

 

That said, unless the team has a plan in place to release Allen this off-season or next if he is underperforming, it seems to me like having $13/year invested at the TE position is quite high given we desperately need to get better at several other positions like ILB, OLB, probably CB, probably DL, possibly the OL.... we have a pretty nice amount of cap space, so we should probably be able to afford bringing Doyle back.  However, if it comes down to bringing him back at a high price impacting our ability to address needs at positions we must improve at (ILB, OLB), then I would personally rather see us let him walk as we can get someone who is capable of performing at his level for likely less than we can get him.  TE is an important part of our offense, but I don't see us really skipping a beat on offense if we had to insert a different TE -- Doyle is good, but he's not like a Tony Gonzalez, Gronk, etc...

 

There are several TEs in FA who I think could function similarly to Doyle and who would come cheaper: Vernon Davis (his age is a concern, but he could be a stop-gap signing for a year for less than Doyle), Levine Toilolo, Jermaine Gresham, Ryan Griffin, even Jacob Tamme -- I think any of those guys will be less pricey than Doyle and I don't think we'd see a noticeable drop-off in production from the TE #1a.

 

I would be happy to see Doyle back in Indy, I just don't think he's worth overpaying for.  I appreciate what he's done here, and like him as a Colt and Indy native, but I don't think we'll ever see him be much more than an above average TE in this league.

I fully expect Doyle to be back. I think he's worth what Allen got. Banking on Allen to 1) stay healthy 2) produce consistently is dangerous and Swoope isn't ready to be the 1a or even 2 TE. I cant imagine that if Ballard watched the tape he wouldn't be impressed with Doyle. I agree that Doyle isn't gonna be a superstar. He's just gonna be a guy that you can count on to do the tough work and make the important catch and make a good block all game long. That's worth a lot. 13 million in cap space on TE isn't terrible. Unfortunately Grigson made that deal with Allen and now Ballard has to live with it. Hopefully it doesn't cost us Doyle.

[DougDew]

14 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Doesn't/did DA have/had a show or something?  I never understood how a guy who is an average performer the relatively infrequent times he actually suited up was ever popular enough to to have a show.

 

I guess some study done at some time thought that he had a following for some reason.

 

Like your gif, I'll pretend to not be sure what in the world that could be.... 

[jet1968]

He is the best tight end on the team by far. And probably more reliable of a pass catcher then the rest. He doesn't seem to drop very many passes when catches are needed the most.

[chad72]

It is the guaranteed money that most folks are after.

 

The same 4 year $18 mil. contract with $12 mil. guaranteed would mean more for an NFL player than another team's 4 year $22 mil. contract with $10 mil. guaranteed. So, if Ballard can work something out like that, that would be great.

 

If Ballard is honest with Doyle's agent and says to let him know what the guaranteed money he is getting on the open market and match it if it is possible with the Colts, I think a deal can get done.

[throwing BBZ]

14 hours ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

As Superman points out, the contract Allen got was pretty weird. 

 

The fact that Allen got paid what he got paid and the fact that Doyle flat out out-performed him this year, means Doyle should have the opportunity to get paid as much or more.  I would like to see Doyle back, but my point is that he isn't an 'irreplacable player', we probably really only have 2 or 3 of them on our roster: Luck, Vontae, and TY (IMO, TY could be argued about).  Sure there are guys I would rather us keep and who I like on the Colts, but it isn't like we couldn't find someone for cheaper or in the draft that isn't comparable to Doyle.  Based on what his co-TE gets paid and based on the fact Doyle outperformed that guy, you are right, he is worth what Allen got paid last year.

 

That said, unless the team has a plan in place to release Allen this off-season or next if he is underperforming, it seems to me like having $13/year invested at the TE position is quite high given we desperately need to get better at several other positions like ILB, OLB, probably CB, probably DL, possibly the OL.... we have a pretty nice amount of cap space, so we should probably be able to afford bringing Doyle back.  However, if it comes down to bringing him back at a high price impacting our ability to address needs at positions we must improve at (ILB, OLB), then I would personally rather see us let him walk as we can get someone who is capable of performing at his level for likely less than we can get him.  TE is an important part of our offense, but I don't see us really skipping a beat on offense if we had to insert a different TE -- Doyle is good, but he's not like a Tony Gonzalez, Gronk, etc...

 

There are several TEs in FA who I think could function similarly to Doyle and who would come cheaper: Vernon Davis (his age is a concern, but he could be a stop-gap signing for a year for less than Doyle), Levine Toilolo, Jermaine Gresham, Ryan Griffin, even Jacob Tamme -- I think any of those guys will be less pricey than Doyle and I don't think we'd see a noticeable drop-off in production from the TE #1a.

 

I would be happy to see Doyle back in Indy, I just don't think he's worth overpaying for.  I appreciate what he's done here, and like him as a Colt and Indy native, but I don't think we'll ever see him be much more than an above average TE in this league.

 

 I agree, Gresham & Tamme would fill in nicely for all those lead blocks from the FB position. And of course Lucky can use he great skills at knowing what route they will choose as they read the D.  Come on man.

[jameszeigler834]

9 hours ago, Jdubu said:

There is zero cost savings to cut him, at least in this season. Next season he is cuttable though

Good cause he is terrible.

[Jdubu]

7 hours ago, esmort said:

 

Actually we would save ~$3 million if we cut him... But, I am not advocating cutting Allen, I would carry all three TEs this season and see how things shake out. 

in cash maybe but we are not gaining the all important cap savings from cutting him.

 

[esmort]

3 hours ago, Jdubu said:

in cash maybe but we are not gaining the all important cap savings from cutting him.

 

 

We gain ~$3 million in cap space by cutting him. Yes we will have $3 million in dead cap space, but the net gain in cap space is still +$3 million. 

[Superman]

4 hours ago, Jdubu said:

in cash maybe but we are not gaining the all important cap savings from cutting him.

 

 

Cash dictates cap. If you want to save cap, start with saving cash.

[DougDew]

It is frustrating that we now have to deal with the potential of Doyle being a market-based FA when we could have at least attempted to do something with him last year when we knew we were going to let one of the two starters walk.

 

The Philly game he led as a FB, showed some versatility, and throughout the season when called upon he made good catches and showed that he could break a tackle and gain YAC, unlike Fleener who would go down the moment a safety wrapped him up.  A professional talent evaluator should have tried to lock him up for two or three years when he was under the radar.   

 

The fact that we are in this situation now is a shame.

 

Doyle and Swoope would have worked fine, with Chase Coffman as a backup.  Would have saved a nice chunk of cap to put towards defense this year.

 

You win championships by getting BETTER play from players than what you have invested in them, either in terms of draft pick or cap...not buy paying market for them....that's simply a push.

 

Last year was a great opportunity to do this and the Colts flubbed the entire TE situation, IMO.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

5 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 I agree, Gresham & Tamme would fill in nicely for all those lead blocks from the FB position. And of course Lucky can use he great skills at knowing what route they will choose as they read the D.  Come on man.

 

Not really quite sure what you're trying to say with the grammar going on here... Doyle isn't in a different league than either of those two.  Doyle did a nice job for us last year, but it isn't like our offense would be totally derailed by exchanging Doyle for anyone I listed.  I want Doyle back, I never said I didn't, I am saying if he's demanding a lot of money and we have option to sign a solid ILB/OLB or spend money where our team desperately needs fixing may be a better option than over-paying for an average NFL tightend.  I don't think we'd be stuck overpaying for him if Allen didn't get that contract last year, but chances are we're going to have to invest a pretty significant amount in him if we want to keep him around.  Putting $13+ million per year into two TEs that finished 23rd and 29th in the league in receptions last year seems like it might have more long term consequences to this team than it would be to part ways with one and bring in a guy who we won't see much drop-off from for much cheaper, especially given the need that our LB corps is pretty darn awful as it stands right now and we have at least 3 other positions of greater concern.

[Superman]

8 hours ago, DougDew said:

Like your gif, I'll pretend to not be sure what in the world that could be.... 

 

I'm not pretending to not be sure of what you're saying. It's just hard to believe you'd actually say it.

[Buddy Lee]

On 2/11/2017 at 6:45 PM, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

I don't think he's a must keep.  He is an above average TE, but it's not like he is a superstar that would break our team apart if he left.

 

 

Yes, exactly.  He's a good player, but he's not a great player worth overpaying for.  He should obviously get a raise, but he doesn't need to break our bank.  He isn't irreplacable.

 

 

Not really.  Swoope showed signs of improvement as a receiver last year, but not enough to be confident he's going to be the answer, plus he isn't the blocker Doyle is.  Allen has struggled with health issues most of his career, as well.  If Doyle leaves, we have Swoope and Allen as the only 2 TEs on the roster -- which to me is not 'deep' by any means.

 

I'd like to see Doyle brought back, but only if it's at a reasonable price.  There is no reason we need to be breaking the bank for him.  I am sure we can draft or find a FA at TE that isn't going to be a major drop off from Doyle.  That said, if he leaves, we definitely have a need for TE.

Spend it on defense.

[MasterCrief]

If he wants Dwayne Allen money, I think we should let him walk. Like others have said, he's good and I want him back at the right price, but he's not a must keep by any means. If we do have to replace him, George Kittle out of Iowa would be a good guy to look at in the 6th round or possibly even as an UDFA. I'll preface this by pointing out that I'm an Iowa fan, so I may be a little biased, but he really reminds me of Doyle. Not an explosive athlete, but he's a very good blocker (like most Iowa TEs) and a very reliable receiver. He's not going to be a deep threat like Fleener was, but he would be perfect in the role that Doyle played this year.

[SaturdayAllDay]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

It is frustrating that we now have to deal with the potential of Doyle being a market-based FA when we could have at least attempted to do something with him last year when we knew we were going to let one of the two starters walk.

 

The Philly game he led as a FB, showed some versatility, and throughout the season when called upon he made good catches and showed that he could break a tackle and gain YAC, unlike Fleener who would go down the moment a safety wrapped him up.  A professional talent evaluator should have tried to lock him up for two or three years when he was under the radar.   

 

The fact that we are in this situation now is a shame.

 

Doyle and Swoope would have worked fine, with Chase Coffman as a backup.  Would have saved a nice chunk of cap to put towards defense this year.

 

You win championships by getting BETTER play from players than what you have invested in them, either in terms of draft pick or cap...not buy paying market for them....that's simply a push.

 

Last year was a great opportunity to do this and the Colts flubbed the entire TE situation, IMO.

You dont know that they didnt try to lock him up long term last yr. Maybe Doyle bet on himself for a bigger paycheck and came out on top. 

[SaturdayAllDay]

3 hours ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

Not really quite sure what you're trying to say with the grammar going on here... Doyle isn't in a different league than either of those two.  Doyle did a nice job for us last year, but it isn't like our offense would be totally derailed by exchanging Doyle for anyone I listed.  I want Doyle back, I never said I didn't, I am saying if he's demanding a lot of money and we have option to sign a solid ILB/OLB or spend money where our team desperately needs fixing may be a better option than over-paying for an average NFL tightend.  I don't think we'd be stuck overpaying for him if Allen didn't get that contract last year, but chances are we're going to have to invest a pretty significant amount in him if we want to keep him around.  Putting $13+ million per year into two TEs that finished 23rd and 29th in the league in receptions last year seems like it might have more long term consequences to this team than it would be to part ways with one and bring in a guy who we won't see much drop-off from for much cheaper, especially given the need that our LB corps is pretty darn awful as it stands right now and we have at least 3 other positions of greater concern.

Realistically we would only be putting 13 million to our tes for 1 season, as Allen is a much easier cut a year from now. I dont see how that would cause long term consequences. At worst it causes slight cap issues for one season, and with the cap we have we can take the hit for one year and have another 6 million to spend on defense next yr. Could even work out contracts with our other signings so that they make slightly less this year to accommodate our tes but make more in year 2 when we get that extra money from cutting Allen. 

The only issue that would arise is if Allen and doyle suddenly both become top 5 tes next season, which is doubtful. 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

On 2/13/2017 at 9:12 AM, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Should also be noted that Chris Ballard has zero ties to Gore. If the D'Qwell Jackson release is any indication, it seems like saving money and getting younger is a pretty big priority to Ballard, and with no personal ties to the player, the likelihood of Gore getting released seems high.

Other than Gore is a leade,r model team mate, productive player, and future hall of famer!! Gore stays IMO!!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

4 hours ago, DougDew said:

It is frustrating that we now have to deal with the potential of Doyle being a market-based FA when we could have at least attempted to do something with him last year when we knew we were going to let one of the two starters walk.

 

The Philly game he led as a FB, showed some versatility, and throughout the season when called upon he made good catches and showed that he could break a tackle and gain YAC, unlike Fleener who would go down the moment a safety wrapped him up.  A professional talent evaluator should have tried to lock him up for two or three years when he was under the radar.   

 

The fact that we are in this situation now is a shame.

 

Doyle and Swoope would have worked fine, with Chase Coffman as a backup.  Would have saved a nice chunk of cap to put towards defense this year.

 

You win championships by getting BETTER play from players than what you have invested in them, either in terms of draft pick or cap...not buy paying market for them....that's simply a push.

 

Last year was a great opportunity to do this and the Colts flubbed the entire TE situation, IMO.

So you knew that Doyle was going to have the year he did and Swoope who they have been working on for what 2/3 years would show this potential?? REALLY?? You should be the GM!!

[dgambill]

19 hours ago, esmort said:

 

Actually we would save ~$3 million if we cut him... But, I am not advocating cutting Allen, I would carry all three TEs this season and see how things shake out. 

Indeed we are going to need 3 TEs on the roster. Why cut one that understands our system...gets in the end zone at least and if we cut we would probably have to spend as much in FA bring a starter in. We don't have cap issues. No reason not to bring back Doyle unless he gets a crazy number in FA...and I don't see that happening. Doyle in Colts system is much better than in any other imo....and I think other GMs discount that.

[Tmoney]

22 hours ago, Jdubu said:

There is zero cost savings to cut him, at least in this season. Next season he is cuttable though

Wed save 2.9 mil....to be exact, lose 3 mil in dead cap space. That 2.9 mil would be used to re sign Doyle and we move on with Jack Doyle and Erik Swipe, both are much better then Dwayne Allen. Maybe add a young talented TE in this super deep TE class

[Tmoney]

4 hours ago, MasterCrief said:

If he wants Dwayne Allen money, I think we should let him walk. Like others have said, he's good and I want him back at the right price, but he's not a must keep by any means. If we do have to replace him, George Kittle out of Iowa would be a good guy to look at in the 6th round or possibly even as an UDFA. I'll preface this by pointing out that I'm an Iowa fan, so I may be a little biased, but he really reminds me of Doyle. Not an explosive athlete, but he's a very good blocker (like most Iowa TEs) and a very reliable receiver. He's not going to be a deep threat like Fleener was, but he would be perfect in the role that Doyle played this year.

Well first I definitely think Jack Doyle is better then coby fleener in every aspect except maybe running in a straight line. Second why keep the worse, over paid TE and let the very talented one walk? Cut Dwayne, eat the 3 mil cap hit, and save that 2.9 mil that we can use to match any offer Jack gets. 

[DougDew]

15 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not pretending to not be sure of what you're saying. It's just hard to believe you'd actually say it.

Always speak the truth, regardless of its popularity.  And narrowmindedness is something that goes both ways and is much more rampant...rampant..than is publicized.   McAphee also had/has a following, but he at least he participated on the field regularly and was very good on the field, so there was some reasonable basis for it, even though I personally found him unfunny and annoying. 

[DougDew]

11 hours ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

So you knew that Doyle was going to have the year he did and Swoope who they have been working on for what 2/3 years would show this potential?? REALLY?? You should be the GM!!

I'm not going to dig for it, but you're welcome to sift through my posts from last spring to find that I thought " Doyle could do everything that DA could do" so we should let both DA and Fleener walk.

 

I never saw Swoope play so I had no opinion on him.  But the GM must have since he let Fleener go because of what he saw in Swoope.  I only wish he would have recognized that Doyle at least equaled DA, and let DA walk too.

[DougDew]

12 hours ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

You dont know that they didnt try to lock him up long term last yr. Maybe Doyle bet on himself for a bigger paycheck and came out on top. 

Yes.  That is a possibility.  But if that was the case, that is still no reason to sign DA to the contract he did, since Doyle would be playing.  

 

I just hope that Doyle wasn't/isn't kept down just because of DAs fan popularity.  That would be a shame (at best)

[SaturdayAllDay]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yes.  That is a possibility.  But if that was the case, that is still no reason to sign DA to the contract he did, since Doyle would be playing.  

 

I just hope that Doyle wasn't/isn't kept down just because of DAs fan popularity.  That would be a shame (at best)

I think it is the skill sets that are dictating where they are at this point tbh. Allen is a little too injury prone to be the lead blocking FB that Doyle is asked to be, and Doyle isnt particularly good in pass protection, whereas Allen seems to be trusted enough to go 1v1 vs the leagues best pass rushers for whatever reason. The coaches have to be seeing something to give him those responsibilities over and over. If having Allen means that he takes the protection duties while Doyle does routes, then I am all for it. Also, I think Doyle is a bigger fan favorite than Allen at this point, so that shouldnt be the reason hes being kept down. 

 

In the end I think they gambled on Allen showing the flashes he showed before all his injuries, with the thought that Doyle would have the time behind him to really come into his own and by this time next year he would be poised to take over as the starter if need be. Unfortunately now we have a new GM with a new vision and that might not be the case. Im hoping that we bite the bullet and just deal with Allen/Doyle for one more year, when can ditch Allen a lot easier. At this point we wont save much by releasing him simply because wed have to replace him with someone who can block (Swoope hasnt really shown much skill for blocking). That being said I would rather ditch Allen then lose Doyle. 

[Jdubu]

22 hours ago, esmort said:

 

We gain ~$3 million in cap space by cutting him. Yes we will have $3 million in dead cap space, but the net gain in cap space is still +$3 million. 

Ah yes, my error. For some reason I was thinking that his cap cut this year did not offset his actual cap savings. Looks like you are correct after I went and looked at it again. Man, Irsay has to be thinking I wasted 16 million dollars if I cut him for 1 season of mediocre play. IMO, for the little savings of 3 million cap savings, and if Irsay and Ballard wanted to really keep Doyle at the 5-6 million/yr salary, I would be willing to just keep Allen for this year at least and move him in a trade along the way or next year if the opportunity came into play. If it didn't work out, then you go ahead with the cut after next year. This team certainly has the cap space to do it and you are going to get solid enough play and perhaps even the rookie year stellar play. This way the team can at least rationalize it was only a 8 million/yr contract instead of 16 lol.

 

Of course this thought changes if the team decides to go all in on defensive players via FA and need that 3 million cap space this season, however, I just don't see this seasons team doing it that way.

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

I think it is the skill sets that are dictating where they are at this point tbh. Allen is a little too injury prone to be the lead blocking FB that Doyle is asked to be, and Doyle isnt particularly good in pass protection, whereas Allen seems to be trusted enough to go 1v1 vs the leagues best pass rushers for whatever reason. The coaches have to be seeing something to give him those responsibilities over and over. If having Allen means that he takes the protection duties while Doyle does routes, then I am all for it. Also, I think Doyle is a bigger fan favorite than Allen at this point, so that shouldnt be the reason hes being kept down. 

 

In the end I think they gambled on Allen showing the flashes he showed before all his injuries, with the thought that Doyle would have the time behind him to really come into his own and by this time next year he would be poised to take over as the starter if need be. Unfortunately now we have a new GM with a new vision and that might not be the case. Im hoping that we bite the bullet and just deal with Allen/Doyle for one more year, when can ditch Allen a lot easier. At this point we wont save much by releasing him simply because wed have to replace him with someone who can block (Swoope hasnt really shown much skill for blocking). That being said I would rather ditch Allen then lose Doyle. 

My personal opinion has always been to go with a one TE set and either 3 wides or a dedicated FB.  A FB who can lead block through the hole with a head of steam or escape to the flat to receive a short pass.  Doyle is versatile enough to be the one TE and Chase Coffman could have been the backup.  But the braintrust has always wanted the blockingTE and the receiving TE since the days of Dilger/Pollard.

 

I'm all for resigning Doyle and getting another Doyle cloan as his back up and leaving the TE position alone.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

4 hours ago, DougDew said:

I'm not going to dig for it, but you're welcome to sift through my posts from last spring to find that I thought " Doyle could do everything that DA could do" so we should let both DA and Fleener walk.

 

I never saw Swoope play so I had no opinion on him.  But the GM must have since he let Fleener go because of what he saw in Swoope.  I only wish he would have recognized that Doyle at least equaled DA, and let DA walk too.

1. I like Doyle a lot. 2. Doyle and DA skill sets are the same in some areas and different in others. DA has superior size, blocking ability, has a knack for getting up the seam, tougher guy IMO, he is very good at using his size to wall off defenders on routes, hands are about the same, speed similar, Doyle has better intangibles, and shockingly for a guy not drafted might be a better athlete! He IMO is WAY more fixable and not near as stiff looking as DA. Able to adjust better to balls and player, ability to make defenders miss in the open field.  Doyle is also not as injury prone as DA is injury prone. As Tony Dungy said, availability is a required skill. Doyle reminds me of a poor mans Dallas Clark. High praise yes but he would need to keep improving to reach that goal. I still think the Colts sign him, KEEP DA because hes good and hope Swoope continues to improve. The talk of cutting DA IMO is stupid! One it almost forces your hand to draft a young TE who probably wont contribute and wont be better. This coupled with the many Colt needs IMO draft as much quality defensive personal as possible, thus why waste a pick on a TE, when you have one!  There is not that much savings, and we have a lot of cap space. I would keep all 3 and bring in a couple of free agent types and maybe you hit on one. I believe the Colts had one on the practice squad or IR if I am not mistaken?

[Superman]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

Always speak the truth, regardless of its popularity.

 

You always speak your opinion. Just because you think it's true doesn't make it true.

 

That's also a very passive aggressive way of saying something that you know would be rejected directly if you just came out and said it. You don't get to say 'I always speak truth' when you're beating around the bush to say something that is obviously going to be offensive to most.

[Narcosys]

If necessary, drop swoope and keep Doyle.

[rock8591]

What about just Franchise Tagging him this year for $9.84 million? And then sign him to a cheap extension after that for 4 years, 12 million?

 

 

[GoColts8818]

4 hours ago, rock8591 said:

What about just Franchise Tagging him this year for $9.84 million? And then sign him to a cheap extension after that for 4 years, 12 million?

 

 

When you franchise tag a player any agent worth their salt going to use that to say you value him as one of the top five players at his poistion and he should be paid as such.  As much as I like Doyle he's not close to a top five tight end in this league.  Franchise tagging him would lead to him being over paid in a big way.

[Jesse Lafantaisie]

17 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

When you franchise tag a player any agent worth their salt going to use that to say you value him as one of the top five players at his poistion and he should be paid as such.  As much as I like Doyle he's not close to a top five tight end in this league.  Franchise tagging him would lead to him being over paid in a big way.

He very well could be a top 5 TE next season. Dude caught 80%  passes targeted for him this season which was 1st among TE's, good run blocker/pass too. Hes even 80% on his career. If doyle is given full time #1 TE duties he would get much better stats give him allens targets and he now has 100+ catches and almost 1000 yards receiving. What exactly qualifies your Top 5 TE's? Do you base it on how many catches and receiving yards? If so that is a very easy way to under value someone because the stats point towards if Doyle was given the chance to have a huge season he would. Does not mean he is capable or isn't but that's what the numbers currently show. He had 59 catches for 584 yds on 75 targets its not like he had 16 catches on 20 targets or something. 59/75 is excellent. Allen doesn't even come close.