[Speculation] Jack Doyle to test free agency (Merged)

[GoColts8818]

8 minutes ago, Jesse Lafantaisie said:

He very well could be a top 5 TE next season. Dude caught 80%  passes targeted for him this season which was 1st among TE's, good run blocker/pass too. Hes even 80% on his career. If doyle is given full time #1 TE duties he would get much better stats give him allens targets and he now has 100+ catches and almost 1000 yards receiving. What exactly qualifies your Top 5 TE's? Do you base it on how many catches and receiving yards? If so that is a very easy way to under value someone because the stats point towards if Doyle was given the chance to have a huge season he would. Does not mean he is capable or isn't but that's what the numbers currently show. He had 59 catches for 584 yds on 75 targets its not like he had 16 catches on 20 targets or something. 59/75 is excellent. Allen doesn't even come close.

The going value for Doyle has been stated as being at about 5 to 6 million a year do you really want to give him 9 million a year and over pay for him by three million?  It's those kinds of contracts that got ran Polian out of town.

[DougDew]

20 hours ago, Superman said:

 

You always speak your opinion. Just because you think it's true doesn't make it true.

 

That's also a very passive aggressive way of saying something that you know would be rejected directly if you just came out and said it. You don't get to say 'I always speak truth' when you're beating around the bush to say something that is obviously going to be offensive to most.

Ok then.  DA has a big pool of followers and defenders simply because they and he are black.  Its bigoted and just plain stupid...and...its the truth.

 

I don't care about it being "rejected" (by lesser minds).  I didn't say it because I just didn't want to get into it directly.

 

[DougDew]

21 hours ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

1. I like Doyle a lot. 2. Doyle and DA skill sets are the same in some areas and different in others. DA has superior size, blocking ability, has a knack for getting up the seam, tougher guy IMO, he is very good at using his size to wall off defenders on routes, hands are about the same, speed similar, Doyle has better intangibles, and shockingly for a guy not drafted might be a better athlete! He IMO is WAY more fixable and not near as stiff looking as DA. Able to adjust better to balls and player, ability to make defenders miss in the open field.  Doyle is also not as injury prone as DA is injury prone. As Tony Dungy said, availability is a required skill. Doyle reminds me of a poor mans Dallas Clark. High praise yes but he would need to keep improving to reach that goal. I still think the Colts sign him, KEEP DA because hes good and hope Swoope continues to improve. The talk of cutting DA IMO is stupid! One it almost forces your hand to draft a young TE who probably wont contribute and wont be better. This coupled with the many Colt needs IMO draft as much quality defensive personal as possible, thus why waste a pick on a TE, when you have one!  There is not that much savings, and we have a lot of cap space. I would keep all 3 and bring in a couple of free agent types and maybe you hit on one. I believe the Colts had one on the practice squad or IR if I am not mistaken?

DA is the better LOS blocker.  Doyle is the better HB blocker.  While they are not exactly the same, the way they are different is a push, IMO.

 

And, let me really get the DA people mad here...while Doyle is just as tough as DA, he is much more athletic.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

DA is the better LOS blocker.  Doyle is the better HB blocker.  While they are not exactly the same, the way they are different is a push, IMO.

 

And, let me really get the DA people mad here...while Doyle is just as tough as DA, he is much more athletic.

I said Doyle is more athletic. Yes Doyle is a better HB blocker, but IMO thats really not a set the Colts are in much so IMO inline blocking is more important thus the edge to DA there.

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

I said Doyle is more athletic. Yes Doyle is a better HB blocker, but IMO thats really not a set the Colts are in much so IMO inline blocking is more important thus the edge to DA there.

Agreed.  I don't much care for a play that relies upon the TE to block one on one.  I prefer the TE to double team or chip and leave the OT or RB to handle the slowed-up rusher.

 

So I would not consider the blocking advantages to be much of a factor since I think they can chip or double pretty much equally.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Agreed.  I don't much care for a play that relies upon the TE to block one on one.  I prefer the TE to double team or chip and leave the OT or RB to handle the slowed-up rusher.

 

So I would not consider the blocking advantages to be much of a factor since I think they can chip or double pretty much equally.

Its close thats why you keep both 2 good TE's are better than 1 or none!

[Buck Showalter]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

Ok then.  DA has a big pool of followers and defenders simply because they and he are black.  Its bigoted and just plain stupid...and...its the truth.

 

I don't care about it being "rejected" (by lesser minds).  I didn't say it because I just didn't want to get into it directly.

 

I am also a big Doyle fan, & not huge on Allen, but it is hard to take your somewhat aggressive posts seriously when you develop this speculative theory and posit it as "truth"...

[Carlos Danger]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

Ok then.  DA has a big pool of followers and defenders simply because they and he are black.  Its bigoted and just plain stupid...and...its the truth.

 

I don't care about it being "rejected" (by lesser minds).  I didn't say it because I just didn't want to get into it directly.

 

Lol... You should have to get into it directly when you say something as dumb as that. 

 

The best part was when you mentioned "lesser minds." Sounds like the pot calling the kettle, well... you know. 

 

[Superman]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

Ok then.  DA has a big pool of followers and defenders simply because they and he are black.  Its bigoted and just plain stupid...and...its the truth.

 

I don't care about it being "rejected" (by lesser minds).  I didn't say it because I just didn't want to get into it directly.

 

 

I don't think it's necessary for me to post this, but just in case you or anyone else is unclear, your viewpoint is complete nonsense. It's not truth, and it's not based in truth, and it's insulting that you'd state this viewpoint, and doubly insulting that you'd present it as if it's verified and unassailable. 

 

And that's the last thing I have to say about it.

[chad72]

It was Chud's first year in the offense and we saw more usage of the TEs as pass catchers. The crop of TEs in the draft is a deep one too, so as long as we don't low ball Doyle or overpay him, Doyle would prefer to be back to a system he flourished in, IMO.

 

Each TE has his strengths, strengths that can be replaced with moves for other TEs via the draft but I do believe in the saying that the bird in hand is worth more than two in the bush.

[ztboiler]

On 2/16/2017 at 9:41 AM, DougDew said:

Ok then.  DA has a big pool of followers and defenders simply because they and he are black.  Its bigoted and just plain stupid...and...its the truth.

 

I don't care about it being "rejected" (by lesser minds).  I didn't say it because I just didn't want to get into it directly.

 

I don't know what environmental factors shaped your logic over time....but the fact that it's hard to take anything you say on this forum henceforth seriously is actually the least of your worries.

[Tmoney]

On 2/11/2017 at 3:00 PM, MPStack said:

I think someone will pay him D. Allen type money. If that does end up being the case, the Colts should let him walk. I can`t see two TE`s with contracts like Allen`s on the same team. 

Why keep the clearly worse player? That makes no sense to me why just live with Dwayne's terrible contract at let the superior talent walk? Cut DA before we let Jack leave

[Tmoney]

On 2/16/2017 at 7:22 AM, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

I said Doyle is more athletic. Yes Doyle is a better HB blocker, but IMO thats really not a set the Colts are in much so IMO inline blocking is more important thus the edge to DA there.

So DA slite edge in blocking justifies paying him 6 mil and letting the better overall TE walk? Well that makes 0 sense

[GoColts8818]

On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 9:41 AM, DougDew said:

Ok then.  DA has a big pool of followers and defenders simply because they and he are black.  Its bigoted and just plain stupid...and...its the truth.

 

I don't care about it being "rejected" (by lesser minds).  I didn't say it because I just didn't want to get into it directly.

 

I think a lot of people try to see the positives in him simply because he's a Colt and they want him to do well because if he's doing well that means the Colts are doing well.  If you think that means I have a lesser mind so be it. 

[Tmoney]

On 2/16/2017 at 10:54 AM, chad72 said:

It was Chud's first year in the offense and we saw more usage of the TEs as pass catchers. The crop of TEs in the draft is a deep one too, so as long as we don't low ball Doyle or overpay him, Doyle would prefer to be back to a system he flourished in, IMO.

 

Each TE has his strengths, strengths that can be replaced with moves for other TEs via the draft but I do believe in the saying that the bird in hand is worth more than two in the bush.

Extremely deep draft class so move on from DA not Doyle. Doyle can be a top 10 TE, Dwayne can't even make it 16 games. Idk what your stance is but your point of it being a deep class makes me want to get rid of Dwayne Allen this year. Our 3rd best TE

[SaturdayAllDay]

10 minutes ago, Tmoney said:

Extremely deep draft class so move on from DA not Doyle. Doyle can be a top 10 TE, Dwayne can't even make it 16 games. Idk what your stance is but your point of it being a deep class makes me want to get rid of Dwayne Allen this year. Our 3rd best TE.

Probably our 3rd best as far as catching footballs, but definitely our best inline blocker.

In a league where contact practices are few and far between, and seeing a noticeable drop off in colleges using proper blocking techniques for olineman (Let alone TEs), that is a highly valued skill. Considering that a player like Swoope is already showing big strides in pass catching and route running, despite never playing football at a decent level, shows us that it isnt hard to find a pass catching TE compared to a blocking one. Doyle is above average at being a receiving TE, but considering our teams current offensive gameplan, it makes no sense to get rid of a blocker that is essential to our scheme to get a currently replaceable cog. Can Doyle improve as a blocker? Maybe. I would even say probably. But considering it only costs us 2.9M to keep Allen, its ridiculous to move on simply because we hope a player is going to improve. I say for the small cost of 2.9M we might as well keep Allen for a year and CONFIRM that Doyle can be that inline blocker before we toss out a player that is helping our franchise. 

The TE class is deep so with any luck we can find an UDFA to groom on the PS for a year while we confirm if Doyle can be the guy for us. Then we can ditch Allen a year from now and dont even have to spend resources to replace him.

Our defense is so talent deficient that a 4th round pick wasted on a TE simply to save less than 3M in cap is ridiculous. In a draft class that is also heavy at CB and LBs, our picks are better spent on getting players who could start for us, not 3rd string TEs. 

 

[Tmoney]

20 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Probably our 3rd best as far as catching footballs, but definitely our best inline blocker.

In a league where contact practices are few and far between, and seeing a noticeable drop off in colleges using proper blocking techniques for olineman (Let alone TEs), that is a highly valued skill. Considering that a player like Swoope is already showing big strides in pass catching and route running, despite never playing football at a decent level, shows us that it isnt hard to find a pass catching TE compared to a blocking one. Doyle is above average at being a receiving TE, but considering our teams current offensive gameplan, it makes no sense to get rid of a blocker that is essential to our scheme to get a currently replaceable cog. Can Doyle improve as a blocker? Maybe. I would even say probably. But considering it only costs us 2.9M to keep Allen, its ridiculous to move on simply because we hope a player is going to improve. I say for the small cost of 2.9M we might as well keep Allen for a year and CONFIRM that Doyle can be that inline blocker before we toss out a player that is helping our franchise. 

The TE class is deep so with any luck we can find an UDFA to groom on the PS for a year while we confirm if Doyle can be the guy for us. Then we can ditch Allen a year from now and dont even have to spend resources to replace him.

Our defense is so talent deficient that a 4th round pick wasted on a TE simply to save less than 3M in cap is ridiculous. In a draft class that is also heavy at CB and LBs, our picks are better spent on getting players who could start for us, not 3rd string TEs. 

 

I'd disagree with Jack just being average as a receiver. He's deceptively quick, runs beautiful routes, and makes plays when we need them the most. He's our best TE since Clark and has the potential to be better becuz the kid can block, more then willing just needs to add bulk. Jack is ganna get good offers, and we have to match no excuses. I'd rather take that 2.9 mil wed save from cutting him, and use that to match the potential 8-10 mil/yr deal Jack gets. I dont want 14-16mil tied to our TEs, especially when Dwayne doesn't live up to his pay check. Dwayne, as decent as he is as a blocker on the LOS, I just dont think that warrents that horrendous contract. He doesn't want the ball thrown to him on 3rd downs, in the 4th Q and just in general is a liability as a pass catcher. Hes not a good enough blocker to where he can stay and block on 3rd, Jadaveon Clowny proved that very quickly. I just think why not sooner then later? Dwaynes proven he's not ganna go a whole 16. What we've seen is what Dwayne is going to be and I'll pass for a rookie TE in a heart beat.

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think a lot of people try to see the positives in him simply because he's a Colt and they want him to do well because if he's doing well that means the Colts are doing well.  If you think that means I have a lesser mind so be it. 

So what does Doyle being a Colt have to do with him being in the top of the NFL in catching footballs thrown to him?

[SaturdayAllDay]

38 minutes ago, Tmoney said:

I'd disagree with Jack just being average as a receiver. He's deceptively quick, runs beautiful routes, and makes plays when we need them the most. He's our best TE since Clark and has the potential to be better becuz the kid can block, more then willing just needs to add bulk. Jack is ganna get good offers, and we have to match no excuses. I'd rather take that 2.9 mil wed save from cutting him, and use that to match the potential 8-10 mil/yr deal Jack gets. I dont want 14-16mil tied to our TEs, especially when Dwayne doesn't live up to his pay check. Dwayne, as decent as he is as a blocker on the LOS, I just dont think that warrents that horrendous contract. He doesn't want the ball thrown to him on 3rd downs, in the 4th Q and just in general is a liability as a pass catcher. Hes not a good enough blocker to where he can stay and block on 3rd, Jadaveon Clowny proved that very quickly. I just think why not sooner then later? Dwaynes proven he's not ganna go a whole 16. What we've seen is what Dwayne is going to be and I'll pass for a rookie TE in a heart beat.

First off if you read my post you would see that I said hes ABOVE AVERAGE, not average. 

 

Secondly - you think hes worth 10 million a year?! your kidding right?? hes worth being the highest paid TE in the league? That's just absurd. If another team offers him that then he can go disappoint them, cuz there is no way he lives up to that contract. Even at 8 Million a year he wont be used enough in our system (if hes in Allens slotted position he will be blocking instead of running check down routes) to merit that kind of money.

 

In another system he will probably be a great TE, but he doesnt play to the strengths of what OUR system asks of their top TE. IF he showed the skills to be a great blocking TE then our coaches wouldnt have kept him as our backup TE, nor would they have paid Allen last year. Besides as I have said before, it is much harder to teach a player to block then it is to run routes. That is why there a dozen pass catching TEs hitting free agency this year, all of them starters at one point. The reason they are hitting the market, they cant block. You talk about knowing what Allen is, but we know what Doyle is too. After 3 seasons you typically know what you get with a player. Doyle has been here for 4. He isnt going to get much better than he is, and if he needed to add bulk to be successful he would have by now. 

 

 Despite me liking Doyle a whole lot more than Allen, Allen is the player that the coaches will want. If you havent noticed, our coaches arent the type to change their playbooks to fit their players strength. They have a set scheme and they stick to it, otherwise wed be running slants and screens to play to our WRs strengths, and quick passes to alleviate the pressure on our young line/ slow throwing QB. The fact that Allen is still on our team means he probably isnt going anywhere, as its getting close to the date where his 2017 pay is guaranteed. 

 

[Tmoney]

17 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

First off if you read my post you would see that I said hes ABOVE AVERAGE, not average. 

 

Secondly - you think hes worth 10 million a year?! your kidding right?? hes worth being the highest paid TE in the league? That's just absurd. If another team offers him that then he can go disappoint them, cuz there is no way he lives up to that contract. Even at 8 Million a year he wont be used enough in our system (if hes in Allens slotted position he will be blocking instead of running check down routes) to merit that kind of money.

 

In another system he will probably be a great TE, but he doesnt play to the strengths of what OUR system asks of their top TE. IF he showed the skills to be a great blocking TE then our coaches wouldnt have kept him as our backup TE, nor would they have paid Allen last year. Besides as I have said before, it is much harder to teach a player to block then it is to run routes. That is why there a dozen pass catching TEs hitting free agency this year, all of them starters at one point. The reason they are hitting the market, they cant block. You talk about knowing what Allen is, but we know what Doyle is too. After 3 seasons you typically know what you get with a player. Doyle has been here for 4. He isnt going to get much better than he is, and if he needed to add bulk to be successful he would have by now. 

 

 Despite me liking Doyle a whole lot more than Allen, Allen is the player that the coaches will want. If you havent noticed, our coaches arent the type to change their playbooks to fit their players strength. They have a set scheme and they stick to it, otherwise wed be running slants and screens to play to our WRs strengths, and quick passes to alleviate the pressure on our young line/ slow throwing QB. The fact that Allen is still on our team means he probably isnt going anywhere, as its getting close to the date where his 2017 pay is guaranteed. 

 

Salary cap is going up every year FAs will benefit from it. I'd easily pay him 8 mil/yr. Your argument that we use our TEs as mainly in line blockers doesn't hold up. That's how we use dwayne Allen becuz that's all he is. Jack Doyle is more then capable blocker, finally realizing he's an elite TE would motivate anybody to improve their weaknesses. I just totally disagree with most of what you have to say honestly. Jack is a better scheme fit by far, Dwayne is not even that great of a blocker if were being real, hes just heavier and less durable!! Jack at least plays an entire season playing on the line, Dwayne can't go a stretch of 5 games. Our coaches didn't pay Dwayne Allen, Grigson did, he clearly didn't make great decisions. I seriously doubt Chris Ballard just sits on Dwaynes terrible contract if it means Jack Doyle walks. 

[SaturdayAllDay]

1 minute ago, Tmoney said:

Salary cap is going up every year FAs will benefit from it. I'd easily pay him 8 mil/yr. Your argument that we use our TEs as mainly in line blockers doesn't hold up. That's how we use dwayne Allen becuz that's all he is. Jack Doyle is more then capable blocker, finally realizing he's an elite TE would motivate anybody to improve their weaknesses. I just totally disagree with most of what you have to say honestly. Jack is a better scheme fit by far, Dwayne is not even that great of a blocker if were being real, hes just heavier and less durable!! Jack at least plays an entire season playing on the line, Dwayne can't go a stretch of 5 games. Our coaches didn't pay Dwayne Allen, Grigson did, he clearly didn't make great decisions. I seriously doubt Chris Ballard just sits on Dwaynes terrible contract if it means Jack Doyle walks. 

So you are saying that the coaches are specifically keeping a player who fits their scheme better as a backup and CHANGING their scheme to fit a lesser player? All while refusing to change their schemes to fit the strengths of their QB, Oline and WRs. Be real man....

 

Also how many TEs emerged as Elite (top 5) in their 5th year in the league whilst never even cracking the top 15 in the last 10 yrs?? That should give you the chances of Doyle "Making the Leap" next year. Hes a good player, but he is what he is at this point, and thats not elite. 

 

Finally I can say with a fair bit of confidence that Allen will not be cut. Its a terrible contract but there isnt anything significant to be saved by getting rid of him. Ballard himself said he is going to listen to his coaching staff about players when making decisions on who to retain. If the coaches didnt think Allen was a good player they would have started Doyle over him. Chances are the coaches are in favor of keeping him and will tell Ballard as much. 

 

Im even confident enough in this to put up a friendly wager on it. If Allen is on our team as of March 13th (which is the day his contract is guaranteed for 2017), you change your avatar to a Dwayne Allen pic of my choosing for the 2017 season. If he gets cut I will gladly change my avatar to a Jack Doyle pic of your choosing. What do you say? 

[Tmoney]

2 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

So you are saying that the coaches are specifically keeping a player who fits their scheme better as a backup and CHANGING their scheme to fit a lesser player? All while refusing to change their schemes to fit the strengths of their QB, Oline and WRs. Be real man....

 

Also how many TEs emerged as Elite (top 5) in their 5th year in the league whilst never even cracking the top 15 in the last 10 yrs?? That should give you the chances of Doyle "Making the Leap" next year. Hes a good player, but he is what he is at this point, and thats not elite. 

 

Finally I can say with a fair bit of confidence that Allen will not be cut. Its a terrible contract but there isnt anything significant to be saved by getting rid of him. Ballard himself said he is going to listen to his coaching staff about players when making decisions on who to retain. If the coaches didnt think Allen was a good player they would have started Doyle over him. Chances are the coaches are in favor of keeping him and will tell Ballard as much. 

 

Im even confident enough in this to put up a friendly wager on it. If Allen is on our team as of March 13th (which is the day his contract is guaranteed for 2017), you change your avatar to a Dwayne Allen pic of my choosing for the 2017 season. If he gets cut I will gladly change my avatar to a Jack Doyle pic of your choosing. What do you say? 

Jack doyle is hardly a back up had just as many snaps with more targets. They're not changing their schemes for Dwayne they just use him as a blocker, your over thinking it way too much. And yes dwayne Allen is the lesser player, but gets the majority of the blocking snaps. Jack finally got his opportunity and look what he did with it, being elite doesn't mean you have to be Rob Gronkowski, it means your a top 10 TE and your not just a great receiver but a good blocker. You act like he's old he's 26 he's just hitting his prime, you don't walk into the league as the best player you'll ever be you grow that's pretty obvious. You said it yourself its a terrible contract that Chris Ballard did not give him, so why keep it? If it came down to it the coaching staff would pick Jack Doyle why? Becuz he's the better player!! That simple. For your bet no becuz I ultimately think we keep them both for this one year, but IF it came down to keeping one or the other it'll be Jack Doyle, no bets just a guarantee.

[SaturdayAllDay]

1 minute ago, Tmoney said:

Jack doyle is hardly a back up had just as many snaps with more targets. They're not changing their schemes for Dwayne they just use him as a blocker, your over thinking it way too much. And yes dwayne Allen is the lesser player, but gets the majority of the blocking snaps. Jack finally got his opportunity and look what he did with it, being elite doesn't mean you have to be Rob Gronkowski, it means your a top 10 TE and your not just a great receiver but a good blocker. You act like he's old he's 26 he's just hitting his prime, you don't walk into the league as the best player you'll ever be you grow that's pretty obvious. You said it yourself its a terrible contract that Chris Ballard did not give him, so why keep it? If it came down to it the coaching staff would pick Jack Doyle why? Becuz he's the better player!! That simple. For your bet no becuz I ultimately think we keep them both for this one year, but IF it came down to keeping one or the other it'll be Jack Doyle, no bets just a guarantee.

yes but any position other than QB pretty much hits their best numbers after 3 years. That is an easily verifiable fact. You dont see huge jumps in talent this far into a career. Like I said, how many players made that jump from year 4-5 as a TE? It doesnt happen. If you are getting paid as a top 5 TE (or even the top TE) you better be able to put up the numbers to back it up. Doyle isnt someone that can do what Kelce, Gronk, Olsen or Graham can do. Chances are if we give him top 5 money it will be a move akin to the signings of Ertz or Julius Thomas. Good but not great numbers that dont seem worth the money we are paying. I honestly would offer him a 4-5 yr contract at 5-7M a year (5 is very optimistic, probably closer to 7). I honestly think that his value is very similar to Delanie Walker, who sits at 6.6m/yr (signed last yr), maybe a little more due to the cap going up which is why i say 7M. I might also plan it so that its a lower cap hit the first year to compensate for keeping Allen around. Doyle will get a signing bonus up front and be happy even if he only makes a few million in year 1. 

 

I think best case scenario is that Allen comes back this year with Doyle, so Doyle can play to his strengths. If our oline can take a big step forward next season, then we wont have to rely on a blocking TE nearly as much and we can ditch Allen. If the line doesnt take a big step forward then chances are we will see a coaching change (Either at HC or OC) and then Doyle has a nice chunk of tape playing to his strengths. Hopefully the new coach will run a system that can use Doyle to his best ability.

 

Like Ive said several times. I like Doyle. Hes a good player and the best TE on the roster overall. I want him to succeed and I think that starting the year as TE 1b gives him his best shot to succeed in the long run. With any luck the line starts comes out looking great and we can start phasing out Allen and preparing for life without him (by showcasing Doyle). 

[GoColts8818]

8 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

So what does Doyle being a Colt have to do with him being in the top of the NFL in catching footballs thrown to him?

I responding to the poster talking about Allen not Doyle.  

 

As for Doyle he had a good season no one should dispute that and that was good for the Colts and should make fans happy about him.

[crazycolt1]

25 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I responding to the poster talking about Allen not Doyle.  

 

As for Doyle he had a good season no one should dispute that and that was good for the Colts and should make fans happy about him.

Fair enough. Sorry about the missed jest of your comment.

 My point was that Doyle has one of the best sets of hands in the NFL and at one point the best in the NFL. A few don't seem to understand what that means and don't think he should be paid like a top TE.

IMO it is on the OC to utilize Doyle's abilities and use him accordingly. It would be in the best interest of the team for the Colts to retain him and not let him go anywhere being he has become what they thought he would be.

 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

14 hours ago, Tmoney said:

So DA slite edge in blocking justifies paying him 6 mil and letting the better overall TE walk? Well that makes 0 sense

Didn't say that I do say PAY DOYLE love him just don't over pay!!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

On 2/14/2017 at 7:02 PM, Tmoney said:

Wed save 2.9 mil....to be exact, lose 3 mil in dead cap space. That 2.9 mil would be used to re sign Doyle and we move on with Jack Doyle and Erik Swipe, both are much better then Dwayne Allen. Maybe add a young talented TE in this super deep TE class

Swoope is NOT BETTER than Allen!!

[LJpalmbeacher2]

16 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

So what does Doyle being a Colt have to do with him being in the top of the NFL in catching footballs thrown to him?

 

crazycolt, your back !!!

Glad to see you bro.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

26 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

 

crazycolt, your back !!!

Glad to see you bro.

Glad to have my Brother back as well!

[crazycolt1]

54 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

 

crazycolt, your back !!!

Glad to see you bro.

Thank you very much. I have to do some serious catching up to have any knowledge at all about the draft and free agents being I have been out of touch for a while.

I am sure glad there are some who have the knowledge I am lacking at this point.

[tommatte]

I think Jack is best as Allen has had many stone hands drops at critical times , There is no Race or stupid talk about it  , Never have been a  fan of Allen in the game but a huge fan in his  off game gives to Indy

[I'm mad, bro]

11 hours ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

Swoope is NOT BETTER than Allen!!

Says you. Obviously Swoope is a better receiver you can't even argue that. Dwayne Allen is claimed to be a good in line blocker when he's average at best. Erik Swoope was average and will continue to get better, he's a bigger body, and the cheaper contract. He's better

[bababooey]

15 hours ago, tommatte said:

I think Jack is best as Allen has had many stone hands drops at critical times , There is no Race or stupid talk about it  , Never have been a  fan of Allen in the game but a huge fan in his  off game gives to Indy

I think the amount of his drops are over exaggerated. But, agreed I am thinking about the ones that come at the wrong time. I believe 4th down in London when Luck should have ran it comes to mind.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

11 hours ago, I'm mad, bro said:

Says you. Obviously Swoope is a better receiver you can't even argue that. Dwayne Allen is claimed to be a good in line blocker when he's average at best. Erik Swoope was average and will continue to get better, he's a bigger body, and the cheaper contract. He's better

If you REALLY think that your high!! If in fact Swoope was better he would play A LOT MORE!! what does he get 10% of offensive snaps at best!! The coaches would have him out there more. And Swoope is not a bigger body by mass and is a horrible blocker right now. And where is he a better receiver because or route runner, he had a few splash plays. He still is a work in progress and has a chance to be good IMO!! I do like how he is coming along though!!

[SaturdayAllDay]

12 hours ago, I'm mad, bro said:

Says you. Obviously Swoope is a better receiver you can't even argue that. Dwayne Allen is claimed to be a good in line blocker when he's average at best. Erik Swoope was average and will continue to get better, he's a bigger body, and the cheaper contract. He's better

I sure can. 

 

Targets (showing which player the COACHES AND the QB prefer to catch the ball) Allen: 52 Swoope: 22 Advantage - Allen

 

Catch % - Allen: 67.3% Swoope: 68.2% . This is within 1% of each other so I think its pretty much a wash. I could go further into it and show the catch % in relation to other TEs with similar targets to see if the small difference is due to the vast difference in targets, but I have better things to do today then go through 32 teams worth of data. Call this a tie for now. 

 

TDs- Allen: 6 Swoope: 1 Even if we up Swoopes TDs to what they would average out to on the same amount of targets, Swoope still only has 2-3 TDs. Advantage - Allen

 

YPC- easier then doing yards, as yards per catch takes into account the difference in targets. Allen- 11.6 Swoope- 19.8. Advantage Swoope. 

 

So unless you are basing YPC as your sole metric for how good our TEs are at receiving, there is an easy argument that Swoope is not better. If you are using YPC as your metric, then sure. But then again that makes Doyle our worst receiver (at only 9.9 YPC) so that pretty much shows you how reliable that stat is at showing receiving skills. 

 

And if you are going to use the "eye test" argument, numbers are facts. Biased opinions arent. 

 

 

 

[braveheartcolt]

1 hour ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

I sure can. 

 

Targets (showing which player the COACHES AND the QB prefer to catch the ball) Allen: 52 Swoope: 22 Advantage - Allen

 

Catch % - Allen: 67.3% Swoope: 68.2% . This is within 1% of each other so I think its pretty much a wash. I could go further into it and show the catch % in relation to other TEs with similar targets to see if the small difference is due to the vast difference in targets, but I have better things to do today then go through 32 teams worth of data. Call this a tie for now. 

 

TDs- Allen: 6 Swoope: 1 Even if we up Swoopes TDs to what they would average out to on the same amount of targets, Swoope still only has 2-3 TDs. Advantage - Allen

 

YPC- easier then doing yards, as yards per catch takes into account the difference in targets. Allen- 11.6 Swoope- 19.8. Advantage Swoope. 

 

So unless you are basing YPC as your sole metric for how good our TEs are at receiving, there is an easy argument that Swoope is not better. If you are using YPC as your metric, then sure. But then again that makes Doyle our worst receiver (at only 9.9 YPC) so that pretty much shows you how reliable that stat is at showing receiving skills. 

 

And if you are going to use the "eye test" argument, numbers are facts. Biased opinions arent. 

 

 

 

Eric has a funkier name though....

[SteelCityColt]

2 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

Eric has a funkier name though....

 

I'm not sure I agree, try saying it as Dee-wayne (like strike in baseball) Allen. 

 

Can't remember who, but a commentator kept doing this one game. Amused me no end.

[SaturdayAllDay]

55 minutes ago, I'm mad, bro said:

 

First off how cute you two lovers having each others backs. Your comparing the stats of a 6 mil/yr starting TE to a 3rd string 500,000 TE. Erik started the year barely playing and earned his way onto the field more and more in passing situations and becuz Dwayne Allen can't stay healthy for strecth of 6 games. Erik isn't a horrible blocker at all shows strength at the POA and has a bigger body then DA 100%. As for your butt buddy, hahaha these stats made me laugh.

Ohh so you mean our starting TE got more targets then our 3rd string? Geeee I'm so shocked. 6 touchdowns 3 of them where one night against the sorry Jets. So he had 3 through 15 games, 1 every 5 that's good production out of a 6 mil/yr TE huh. Please list the drops as well, nooooo that's "advantage Swoope". Your Lil stats prove nothing Swoope didn't get his opportunity until late in the year and showed good things, and is clearly a better receiving TE then DA. Use protection you two nasties.

 

ok lets talk drops. Swoope had 2 drops on 22 passes. Allen had 3 on 52. Do the math on who that advantage is for..... Also if you consider 10 snaps (week 16) and 9 snaps (week 17) as significantly better than then 6-8 snaps he averaged in the first few weeks, then I guess you are right in assuming he got more looks late in the season.He still saw less snaps than any other TE, or any WR not name Devin Street, which leads me to believe that he wasnt really getting a big opportunity.  

 

I wasnt factoring in contracts at all, as that wasnt what you said. In YOUR words "Swoope is a better receiver you cant even argue that". Had you said Swoope is a better value, sure. Even saying Swoope is trending up while Allen is trending down, sure. But to straight up say he is better despite 0 stats to back it up, couldnt be farther from the truth. Money has no bearing on skill, only value. The only way he is better is per $ and that is easy to say about pretty much any player on a rookie contract vs any player on a second contract. Technically Cody Kessler is a better player $ for $ than Luck (Kesslers 2016 salary works out to $446.52/yd or $102,700/TD, Luck works out to $4339.62/yd or $593,548/TD). Seems by your logic Kessler is a better QB then Luck.  

 

And also its very showing that you had to stoop to personally attacking people. That is a classic tactic for someone who has nothing better to say and cant take being wrong. Show some maturity and maybe a little class next time.  Dont bother replying, I wont see it. Im not here to argue with children.

[SaturdayAllDay]

5 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

Eric has a funkier name though....

Truth be told I like Swoope a heck of a lot more than Allen, and would love to see him grow into a regular contributor on this team. Just stating current facts to someone who believes opinions are stronger than hard evidence. 

[Rally5]

On 2/12/2017 at 1:45 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

People on this website are consistently wrong about money.     More times than not,  they are way too low in the offers they think the Colts should make.

 

And, then from time to time,   they offer way too much to get the player they have a crush on.

 

You can often visit Spotrac to give you an idea of what the market looks like for a free agent target.

 

The market for Doyle is roughly 5.5--6 mill per year over 4 years. 

 

We can afford it if we want to.....     we have the money.

 

 

 

Right again my friend!  It's a two tight end league and Doyle also fits the FB position.  He became a go-to target and he's clutch.  We actually only have a few guys currently on roster (our own FA's) that actually have any re-sign value and Doyle is one of them.  Plenty of cash, get this one done, in addition, Swoope can't replace Doyle.  If we are to focus on Defense in the draft we don't want to create avoidable offensive gaps. This is an easy call.  Thanks!

 

PS.  Go get an OG in FA and solidify the oline.....this is all very doable.