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klh7768

Colts defense

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    I was not a fan of the change from 4-3 to a 3-4.  When the change was made we did not have the players for a 3-4.   Mathis and Freeney are legit DE on a 4-3.   We let Freeney go, and try to convert Mathis to an OLB when he is not in his prime.  Then there are the linebackers.  I still don't think we have good enough players for a 3-4 defense and we tried to make up for it in free agency using players past their prime.   Colts changed Defensive Coordinators this past offseason.   So that causes me to pause and ask the wth questions.....is it players, coaches, or both.   

     The Lions won one game against us, and have lost every week since.  If our defense would have held for 30 seconds we would have won that game.  We had defensive issues against the bloody Jaguars and lost that game too.  Yes I know the offense did not help starting slowly against Jacksonville, but the defense is older than the offense in terms of players age.

      Am I wrong to want to go back to the 4-3 ?

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I like the 4-3 more simply because you're rushing 4 at minimum every play unless it's hail Mary at the end.

 

I'm all about pass rush. 3-4 you may be rushing 3 at times and that's not enough unless you have a front like the Jets or Chiefs which we obviously don't 

 

I don't agree with a lot of the offensive/defensive packages we use, but gotta have faith that irsay and company know what they're doing

 

However, I do love the 3 safety formation we're using to get Green, Geathers, & Adams on the field all at once 

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50 minutes ago, klh7768 said:

    I was not a fan of the change from 4-3 to a 3-4.  When the change was made we did not have the players for a 3-4.   Mathis and Freeney are legit DE on a 4-3.   We let Freeney go, and try to convert Mathis to an OLB when he is not in his prime.  Then there are the linebackers.  I still don't think we have good enough players for a 3-4 defense and we tried to make up for it in free agency using players past their prime.   Colts changed Defensive Coordinators this past offseason.   So that causes me to pause and ask the wth questions.....is it players, coaches, or both.   

     The Lions won one game against us, and have lost every week since.  If our defense would have held for 30 seconds we would have won that game.  We had defensive issues against the bloody Jaguars and lost that game too.  Yes I know the offense did not help starting slowly against Jacksonville, but the defense is older than the offense in terms of players age.

      Am I wrong to want to go back to the 4-3 ?

 

 We've played a % ton of 4-2-5 and some 3-3-5, but I don't believe I've seen more than handful of plays where we've played with 3 down DLineman. I was surprised to see that the team is only allowing ~105 yards rushing per game. However, the majority of the passing yards against us are on screens and RB's/TE's out of the backfield, which is and has been a major issues the last 4 years. While we are weak at the ILB spot, the coaches should be able to scheme and protect those guys better than they have. If they find a way to slow down the screens this defense will look a whole lot different, but until then, we are going to continue watching 3rd downs get converted because we haven't shown that we can come anywhere close to stopping them. 

 

However, the offense can't keep going into half time at 7 points or less. That's completely inexcusable.

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1 hour ago, TKnight24 said:

I like the 4-3 more simply because you're rushing 4 at minimum every play unless it's hail Mary at the end.

 

I'm all about pass rush. 3-4 you may be rushing 3 at times and that's not enough unless you have a front like the Jets or Chiefs which we obviously don't 

 

I don't agree with a lot of the offensive/defensive packages we use, but gotta have faith that irsay and company know what they're doing

 

However, I do love the 3 safety formation we're using to get Green, Geathers, & Adams on the field all at once 

agree, I also like the 3 safety thing

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1 hour ago, klh7768 said:

    I was not a fan of the change from 4-3 to a 3-4.  When the change was made we did not have the players for a 3-4.   Mathis and Freeney are legit DE on a 4-3.   We let Freeney go, and try to convert Mathis to an OLB when he is not in his prime.  Then there are the linebackers.  I still don't think we have good enough players for a 3-4 defense and we tried to make up for it in free agency using players past their prime.   Colts changed Defensive Coordinators this past offseason.   So that causes me to pause and ask the wth questions.....is it players, coaches, or both.   

     The Lions won one game against us, and have lost every week since.  If our defense would have held for 30 seconds we would have won that game.  We had defensive issues against the bloody Jaguars and lost that game too.  Yes I know the offense did not help starting slowly against Jacksonville, but the defense is older than the offense in terms of players age.

      Am I wrong to want to go back to the 4-3 ?

no, I do too, this is not working

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1 hour ago, TKnight24 said:

I like the 4-3 more simply because you're rushing 4 at minimum every play unless it's hail Mary at the end.

 

I'm all about pass rush. 3-4 you may be rushing 3 at times and that's not enough unless you have a front like the Jets or Chiefs which we obviously don't 

 

I don't agree with a lot of the offensive/defensive packages we use, but gotta have faith that irsay and company know what they're doing

 

However, I do love the 3 safety formation we're using to get Green, Geathers, & Adams on the field all at once 

You can consistently rush 4 from the 3-4 as well.  You might be rushing 3 at times, but you can do that from a 4-3 as well.  The advantage to rushing 4 from the 3-4 instead of the 4-3 is the QB can't tell where the 4th is coming from.  If we have our 3-4, the QB won't know if it's Walden or Mathis coming as the 4th rusher.  But if you're in a 4-3, chances are usually high you're not running a zone blitz.

 

I don't think one system is better than the other.  I think you can have a top defense if you have a 4-3 or a 3-4.  The issue is finding players to fit that defense.  Warren Sapp was dominant in a 4-3, but not as good in a 3-4.  Same with Albert Haynesworth.  Run whatever defense you want, but find the right players who fit the system

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Just now, 21isSuperman said:

You can consistently rush 4 from the 3-4 as well.  You might be rushing 3 at times, but you can do that from a 4-3 as well.  The advantage to rushing 4 from the 3-4 instead of the 4-3 is the QB can't tell where the 4th is coming from.  If we have our 3-4, the QB won't know if it's Walden or Mathis coming as the 4th rusher.  But if you're in a 4-3, chances are usually high you're not running a zone blitz

   We have no pass rush.  It doesn't matter if they come from the left, right, or middle.  We don't have enough pressure.  We don't have enough sacks or QB hits to make an impact so far.

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16 minutes ago, klh7768 said:

   We have no pass rush.  It doesn't matter if they come from the left, right, or middle.  We don't have enough pressure.  We don't have enough sacks or QB hits to make an impact so far.

Agreed, but that's not because of our defensive system.  It's because of the talent we have on the roster

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3-4 is fine Grigson just doesn't know what 3-4 players look like. This definitely a talent problem not a scheme problem.

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This has got to be one of the worst defenses in the league. ZERO pass rush. The inside linebackers are TERRIBLE. and the secondary is a JOKE.

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2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Another thread high jacked into a bash Grigson and or Pagano thread.

 

Because they're both terrible. Grigson and Pagano should be talked about in every thread.

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But it don't matter what kind of defensive scheme you run. you can be successful with either. You just have to have GOOD players, and the right players. For example. If we'd get rid of our genius general manager, Pagano, and some other coaches, bring in a more aggressive GM, and a competent HC, go out and sign Chandler Jones, Stephon Gilmore, and Dont'a Hightower, then get a good sideline to sideline, coverage ILB, a RB, and another EDGE rusher in the 1st 3 rounds we'd be looking at a different team next year.

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Colts D is pure the slaw. Hoyer has sat in the pocket and ate tea and crumpets all day long. Mathis looks like a 50 year old that needs to be cut and the LB's as a whole are terrible.

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Name a difference maker on this defense. A couple young pieces that may or may not pan out and severely underperforming overpaid cast offs from other teams

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Honestly, the defense has not been provided enough personnel to play good defense. We added no impact players to a below average defense from last year, so we should not expect a lot more. It's bad when we look forward to someone as old as Mathis to come in a make plays. But think about it, there are no real play makers on the defense and no one above average. But it is amazing that the Colts have not had a good defensive coordinator since the mid-90s. Excuses aside.

 

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6 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

But it don't matter what kind of defensive scheme you run. you can be successful with either. You just have to have GOOD players, and the right players. For example. If we'd get rid of our genius general manager, Pagano, and some other coaches, bring in a more aggressive GM, and a competent HC, go out and sign Chandler Jones, Stephon Gilmore, and Dont'a Hightower, then get a good sideline to sideline, coverage ILB, a RB, and another EDGE rusher in the 1st 3 rounds we'd be looking at a different team next year.

This isn't madden. You can't just go sign three of the top free agents in one off season.

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3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Another thread high jacked into a bash Grigson and or Pagano thread.

Because the problems this team has stem from the incompetence of those two

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I think Bob Lamey put it best today: "We know they practice hard all week leading up to the weekend. It just all falls out the window during the game."

 

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2 minutes ago, relkins said:

Not so bad we only gave them 500 yds

 

Yeah, how they only managed to score 23 points with 500+ yards amazes me lol.  Fortunately that's the Bears for you.  Alshon Jeffrey was wide open at the end there I'm wondering if Hoyer was "blinded by the light," haha! 

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This defense is one of the most putrid units I've ever seen. Even the basics of tackling and covering all the guys at the start of the snap seem like a challenge. Very frustrating to watch these guys go out there and find new ways to # up.

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As big of a supporter of wait until the season is over for reviewing the future, this game shows at basically full strength of our D that it simply doesnt have the talent to compete.

 

I doubt Art Jones coming back will invoke a Bob Sanders rally cry.  There isnt anyone on this roster that can make it better.  Not even the coaches.

 

As much as I hate to admit I was wrong, i have seen enough.  We arent a contender.

 

Glad for the win and if we win next week we could be in 1st place as strange as that sounds but unless someone can explain to me how the D can get better or can at least adjust the scheme to hide the weaknesses we will be 500 team and miss the playoffs and not have much of a draft pick.  (Yes 21isSuperman, I am starting to see the light.).

 

 

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Just now, Malakai432 said:

 

Yeah, how they only managed to score 23 points with 500+ yards amazes me lol.  Fortunately that's the Bears for you.  Alshon Jeffrey was wide open at the end there I'm wondering if Hoyer was "blinded by the light," haha! 

Light looked like it favored us lol

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1 minute ago, coltsfanatic24 said:

I think this will force Grigson to trade for a defensive player. 

 

 

 

I hope he is trading Robinson for Toler

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2 minutes ago, DipsyDoodles said:

That was a disgusting win

I bet $500 minus the 4.5. I'm actually embarrassed to take the bookie's money. Two words to describe that defense. Hot garbage.

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2 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

 

 

 

I hope he is trading Robinson for Toler

 

2 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

 

 

 

I hope he is trading Robinson for Toler

Or Joe Haden. 

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8 minutes ago, SkyBane said:

This defense is one of the most putrid units I've ever seen. Even the basics of tackling and covering all the guys at the start of the snap seem like a challenge. Very frustrating to watch these guys go out there and find new ways to # up.

 

Please add to the can't tackle and can't cover , can't rush the passer . 

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