Sad but potentially true...

[Indeee]

Only 2 games in, however we all must realize that the Colts are quite possibly in a rebuild and it's doubtful we will make an impact this year. The Colts might not even win 5 games literally. I think when Irsay gave the two extensions to Pags and Grigs, it was basically conceding this was a do-over in many areas. Keep in mind regardless of what happens this year, we do have YOUNG pieces that hopefully will grow, stay uninjured and become a force over the next couple years.

 

Anderson, Dorsett, Moncrief, Kelly, Mcgill, Maggitt, Geathers, Green, Morrison, Mewhort... etc..

 

These guys are young and need to learn to play together. Also, in regards to next year, the Colts will have a lot of Cap space to work with and btw if we do finish with a top 5 draft pick, we could potentially land Myles Garrett!!

 

We have to let this play out, I just wouldn't expect much this year as so far, IMO, it goes beyond injuries... It's first year of DC change ( Again ), practically a OC change ( Again ) and virtually every position coach has been changed. Takes time is all I'm saying. Unfortunately to us fans 5 years have already been wasted.

 

 

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

Should have drafted oline after Andrew luck and also the next draft done the same. Then dline. The games are won in the trenches as you can see from that strip sack at the end. But I guess that's why I'm no GM. I want to win. 

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, Indianapolis-Colts-Fan said:

Should have drafted oline after Andrew luck and also the next draft done the same. Then dline. The games are won in the trenches as you can see from that strip sack at the end. But I guess that's why I'm no GM. I want to win. 

So you think Grigson don't want to win? I don't quite get why you would even say that?

[gacoop1]

it's not he doesn't want to wind, he(Grigs) doesn't know how to win. He's an inept GM, clue less just needs to go.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

9 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So you think Grigson don't want to win? I don't quite get why you would even say that?

 

 

You know honestly he may have the desire to see the colts win in his little heart, but in his head he does NOT want to win. Like I said. You win in the trenches. If he wanted to win, being a damn scout, he should know how to do that. It doesn't take the BPA to win games. It takes offensive and defensive lineman. 

 

I agree getting our secondary healthy will help the pass rush, but if for the last 4 years Grigson proactively, actually drafted for need, which is oline and dline, we wouldn't be in this situation. We wouldn't have an abysmal pass rush, and we wouldn't have an oline "getting to know each other" right now. 

 

Let me ask you something. You are the Colts GM, and you have the next greatest QB coming out of college since elway, and the first things you draft are people to throw the ball to? 

 

Grigson wants to win. But he doesn't really want to win. If he did, we would have seen it in years past drafts. And yes. I am saying to draft for need even if the player isn't worth his draft pick. Over 4 years of drafting had he drafted in the trenches, this last, and most previous draft he COULD have DRAFTED BPA in skill positions, for luck, which is the season we are currently watching. Did you see Quan Bray out there catching passes? He's no first round talent. 

 

Only an * thinks you need to worry about skill positions over the trenches. 

 

And yes. All this is possible while still aquireing Vontae Davis. Who is currently the only proven good defensive player we currently have. So what is really to lose here in this scenario?  

 

 

[King Colt]

Actually the Colts are playing descent even with a weak defense and I mean weak. The loss to Detroit should have never happened. Look at yesterdays' game with Tennessee. They held Denver down until the last few minutes of the game whish is the fault of the offense. The Jags got crushed yesterday so how good are they now? The Texans are the big concern but they are not a guaranteed winner in both games against the Colts if the Colts can retrieve some secondary starters off the injury list. The schedule will help or hurt and I don't have it in front of me so I can't say.

[Myles]

I think the defense will get better when starters return, but it won't make this defense a top 15 in the league.   Currently the Colts are the worst defense in the league (by the eye test and statistically).   Last in points allowed and 3rd last in yards allowed.  Probably be worse after the Chargers game.  

It's the O-line that needs to play great for the Colts to succeed.   We must score allot.

[krunk]

Oh I always expect to win!  I'm not changing that because I believe we can.

[WarGhost21]

Don't get me wrong. I want us to win. I really do. But if we lose next week and drop to 0-3, I would tank the rest of the season for a top pick in the draft. I may be wrong, but I don't believe any team has ever made it deep in the playoffs with an 0-3 starting record. If we aren't going to win anything, why not pick at the top of the deepest draft in a while at the pass rushing and running back positions? I wouldn't be mad if we lose a lot and end up with a Myles Garrett or a Leonard Fournette.

[K-148]

1 hour ago, Indianapolis-Colts-Fan said:

Should have drafted oline after Andrew luck and also the next draft done the same. Then dline. The games are won in the trenches as you can see from that strip sack at the end. But I guess that's why I'm no GM. I want to win. 

Short memory. Grigson signed Donald Thomas (OG) and Gosder Cherilus (OT), spent 3rd round pick on Hugh Thornton (OG) and 4th round pick on Khaled Holmes (C) in 2013. Basically Grigson assembled full OL in 2013. Castonzo-Thomas-Holmes-Thornton-Cherilus. Sad, they were always injured.

[lollygagger8]

It makes me sad that we are all conceding to an abysmal season already. 

 

I don't think I've ever went into a season with this kind of low expectation before. Even the Curtis Painter season. 

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

10 minutes ago, K-148 said:

Short memory. Grigson signed Donald Thomas (OG) and Gosder Cherilus (OT), spent 3rd round pick on Hugh Thornton (OG) and 4th round pick on Khaled Holmes (C) in 2013. Basically Grigson assembled full OL in 2013. Castonzo-Thomas-Holmes-Thornton-Cherilus. Sad, they were always injured.

 

 

I remember grigson using his higher round draft picks on skill positions. Other than a project first rounder in Werner didn't make sense then or now. 

 

What does my short memory have to do with me being gm who would have used his first 3 picks in the first 2 drafts (beyond luck) for oline? Not a 3rd and a 4th round. You just proved my point by saying our GM takes our oline as seriously as a 3rd and 4th rounder coming into the colts organization with a MAJOR oline problem as it was to begin with. He has literally done nothing to help this oline beyond finding quick fixes. And mediocre over the hill players with injury histories. 

 

This is my problem with our GM and it has always been my problem with him. His best draft so far was his current one with Kelly. Should have happened from the get go. Arguing against this is pure lunacy. 

we have an * GM on our hands who has put our coaching staff, and our players, in a position to fail. Therefor you see people getting mad about pagano making certain calls.

 

if you went trenches to begin with, you would see a lot of these mistakes cleaned up. Not because they realize the mistake, but because they have the personnel to control TIME OF POSSESION. 

[Mameluc]

i believed this was a rebuilding year so i guess when the injuries happened i was like kinda sure of it...it sucks but roster needs some tuning on defense.

[K-148]

6 minutes ago, Indianapolis-Colts-Fan said:

 

 

I remember grigson using his higher round draft picks on skill positions. Other than a project first rounder in Werner didn't make sense then or now. 

 

What does my short memory have to do with me being gm who would have used his first 3 picks in the first 2 drafts (beyond luck) for oline? Not a 3rd and a 4th round. You just proved my point by saying our GM takes our oline as seriously as a 3rd and 4th rounder coming into the colts organization with a MAJOR oline problem as it was to begin with. He has literally done nothing to help this oline beyond finding quick fixes. And mediocre over the hill players with injury histories. 

 

This is my problem with our GM and it has always been my problem with him. His best draft so far was his current one with Kelly. Should have happened from the get go. Arguing against this is pure lunacy. 

we have an * GM on our hands who has put our coaching staff, and our players, in a position to fail. Therefor you see people getting mad about pagano making certain calls.

 

if you went trenches to begin with, you would see a lot of these mistakes cleaned up. Not because they realize the mistake, but because they have the personnel to control TIME OF POSSESION. 

Evan Mathis was 79th pick. Jahri Evans  was 108th pick. Larry Warford was 65th pick. Gabe Jackson was 81th pick. Kelechi Osemele was 60th pick. There are a lot of good C and G in rounds 2-4. And a lot of 1st round C and G are overrated: Jonathan Cooper, Chance Warmack, Danny Watkins.

[OLD FAN MAN]

1 hour ago, gacoop1 said:

it's not he doesn't want to wind, he(Grigs) doesn't know how to win. He's an inept GM, clue less just needs to go.

I agree

[bababooey]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

So you think Grigson don't want to win? I don't quite get why you would even say that?

All the nonesense about "Protect 12" sitting on his desk is exactly what it is, nonesense.

[Myles]

10 minutes ago, K-148 said:

Evan Mathis was 79th pick. Jahri Evans  was 108th pick. Larry Warford was 65th pick. Gabe Jackson was 81th pick. Kelechi Osemele was 60th pick. There are a lot of good C and G in rounds 2-4. And a lot of 1st round C and G are overrated: Jonathan Cooper, Chance Warmack, Danny Watkins.

Of course that is true.    But your odds are better the higher your pick.  

I do wish the O-line would have been fixed in prior seasons.   It makes everyone better.

The QB is better.    The RB's are better.   The TE and WR's are better.   Even the defense is better because you control the clock usually.  

I was hoping the Colts would have reached out to Incognito, but I heard nothing.   The O-line has been pretty bad for years.  

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

16 minutes ago, K-148 said:

Evan Mathis was 79th pick. Jahri Evans  was 108th pick. Larry Warford was 65th pick. Gabe Jackson was 81th pick. Kelechi Osemele was 60th pick. There are a lot of good C and G in rounds 2-4. And a lot of 1st round C and G are overrated: Jonathan Cooper, Chance Warmack, Danny Watkins.

 

I understand that the value won't be there for every pick. That's going to happen no matter what, and I'm not saying higher values won't fall either. I'm saying regardless of such facts, he should have been drafting in the trenches. 

 

These players you mention all happen to not be on the colts team.

 

im not saying to not draft these players in rounds 2-4. I'm saying beyond Davis and Luck, we should be using rounds 1-4 to draft oline for 2-3 years man. Luck has played 2-3 years since those drafts. If we had done those things, we could have focused the next 2 on defense. There is nothing worse for me than to draft skill players high, it makes NO SENSE. As much as you want it to. These skill positions, aren't as much about skill as you think. It is easier to find diamonds in the rough, when it comes to skill players, than with olineman. Which makes me wonder what a real skill position is.

 

So yeah, oline may not be worth a first very often, but I would say, that it's more likely to find starting WR diamonds, than it does for oline. So in the end it is more worth it to draft oline early than skilled positions.

 

ask yourself. What takes more skill? Catching the ball? Running? Or blocking for said skill positions? 

 

Who will catch when the QB fumbles in the last seconds of the game? 

 

Who will run when you have no one blocking for you? 

 

Im sorry, but I'm tired of watching top end talent unable to do %, because everything success wise, revolves around the trenches on both sides. 

[bababooey]

1 hour ago, Indianapolis-Colts-Fan said:

Should have drafted oline after Andrew luck and also the next draft done the same. Then dline. The games are won in the trenches as you can see from that strip sack at the end. But I guess that's why I'm no GM. I want to win. 

Still angry at him for not taking a meeting with Incognito. Has no problem grabbing every bargain bin player from the CFL hoping for another Freeman but can't get a vet in a position of need.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

13 minutes ago, bababooey said:

Still angry at him for not taking a meeting with Incognito. Has no problem grabbing every bargain bin player from the CFL hoping for another Freeman but can't get a vet in a position of need.

 

I have been on the hate grigson bandwagon for a couple years now. How many all star QBs does grigson need to go through in order to be considered a failure? 

 

This guy used to be a SCOUT in the NFL! Why do people not want to give our secondary the benefit of doubt for being one step slower than the starters? Yet we give grigson a pass? He is NEXT MAN UP! There is no excuse for a scout to miss on as many as he has. But that's just my very, and completely humble opinion. Wasn't he also a lineman in the NFL?

 

maybe that's why he thinks the other players are more important cuz he was always watching people score. 

[Smonroe]

1 hour ago, King Colt said:

Actually the Colts are playing descent even with a weak defense and I mean weak. The loss to Detroit should have never happened. Look at yesterdays' game with Tennessee. They held Denver down until the last few minutes of the game whish is the fault of the offense. The Jags got crushed yesterday so how good are they now? The Texans are the big concern but they are not a guaranteed winner in both games against the Colts if the Colts can retrieve some secondary starters off the injury list. The schedule will help or hurt and I don't have it in front of me so I can't say.

 

Freudian slip? 

 

But I agree with you.  Eventually the injured players will be back, and the backups who are playing now will have more experience.

 

Stay the course!

[yoyo]

The two wasted 1st round picks(Werner+Richardson) is the real difference maker. Two complete misses in a row is really hurting. Imagine what could happen if we nailed two real playmakers on defense. Lacking playmakers is the real problem for this colts defense now.

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Indianapolis-Colts-Fan said:

 

 

You know honestly he may have the desire to see the colts win in his little heart, but in his head he does NOT want to win. Like I said. You win in the trenches. If he wanted to win, being a damn scout, he should know how to do that. It doesn't take the BPA to win games. It takes offensive and defensive lineman. 

 

I agree getting our secondary healthy will help the pass rush, but if for the last 4 years Grigson proactively, actually drafted for need, which is oline and dline, we wouldn't be in this situation. We wouldn't have an abysmal pass rush, and we wouldn't have an oline "getting to know each other" right now. 

 

Let me ask you something. You are the Colts GM, and you have the next greatest QB coming out of college since elway, and the first things you draft are people to throw the ball to? 

 

Grigson wants to win. But he doesn't really want to win. If he did, we would have seen it in years past drafts. And yes. I am saying to draft for need even if the player isn't worth his draft pick. Over 4 years of drafting had he drafted in the trenches, this last, and most previous draft he COULD have DRAFTED BPA in skill positions, for luck, which is the season we are currently watching. Did you see Quan Bray out there catching passes? He's no first round talent. 

 

Only an * thinks you need to worry about skill positions over the trenches. 

 

And yes. All this is possible while still aquireing Vontae Davis. Who is currently the only proven good defensive player we currently have. So what is really to lose here in this scenario?  

 

 

There is one thing you are over looking. Grigson has tried several different players to play in the trenches. He has not ignored them. He has made the effort to get players for the trenches so it's not like he isn't trying and hasn't tried. His percentage of hit and miss players is right along with the other GMs in the league.

Bray was out there due to an injury so I don't even understand you making a point of it.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

There is one thing you are over looking. Grigson has tried several different players to play in the trenches. He has not ignored them. He has made the effort to get players for the trenches so it's not like he isn't trying and hasn't tried. His percentage of hit and miss players is right along with the other GMs in the league.

Bray was out there due to an injury so I don't even understand you making a point of it.

 

 

Sir. My point is. Draft oline early and often. It's that simple. He has made attempts. I know this. 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

1 hour ago, Indianapolis-Colts-Fan said:

 

I understand that the value won't be there for every pick. That's going to happen no matter what, and I'm not saying higher values won't fall either. I'm saying regardless of such facts, he should have been drafting in the trenches. 

 

These players you mention all happen to not be on the colts team.

 

im not saying to not draft these players in rounds 2-4. I'm saying beyond Davis and Luck, we should be using rounds 1-4 to draft oline for 2-3 years man. Luck has played 2-3 years since those drafts. If we had done those things, we could have focused the next 2 on defense. There is nothing worse for me than to draft skill players high, it makes NO SENSE. As much as you want it to. These skill positions, aren't as much about skill as you think. It is easier to find diamonds in the rough, when it comes to skill players, than with olineman. Which makes me wonder what a real skill position is.

 

So yeah, oline may not be worth a first very often, but I would say, that it's more likely to find starting WR diamonds, than it does for oline. So in the end it is more worth it to draft oline early than skilled positions.

 

ask yourself. What takes more skill? Catching the ball? Running? Or blocking for said skill positions? 

 

Who will catch when the QB fumbles in the last seconds of the game? 

 

Who will run when you have no one blocking for you? 

 

Im sorry, but I'm tired of watching top end talent unable to do %, because everything success wise, revolves around the trenches on both sides. 

It boggles my mind how anyone can look at a pick like Dorsett and think "wow good job Grigs!" When half the games we play are against teams with good enough pass rushes to make our O line * their pants. He doesn't even have time to throw to that awesome waste of a first round pick. It took an abysmal lions pass rush to make our line look even decent. 

[coltsfanatic24]

We've been rebuilding for 4 years now. We're so far away from being a SB contender. Too many needs on the defensive side of the ball.

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, coltsfanatic24 said:

We've been rebuilding for 4 years now. We're so far away from being a SB contender. Too many needs on the defensive side of the ball.

Maybe, maybe not. We have yet to see what this defense can do with healthy players. They don't have to be top notch to win games, just average with the offense we have.

Also with this years draft get them through their rookie learning curve and they will be better.

[coltsfanatic24]

4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Maybe, maybe not. We have yet to see what this defense can do with healthy players. They don't have to be top notch to win games, just average with the offense we have.

Also with this years draft get them through their rookie learning curve and they will be better.

Last year when healthy we still weren't very good defensively against elite QB's. Big Ben, Brady, Cam, etc had great games against this defense. Against average to below average teams they look good. I'm just not confident in the front offense to draft good defensive players. 

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

2 hours ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

It boggles my mind how anyone can look at a pick like Dorsett and think "wow good job Grigs!" When half the games we play are against teams with good enough pass rushes to make our O line * their pants. He doesn't even have time to throw to that awesome waste of a first round pick. It took an abysmal lions pass rush to make our line look even decent. 

 

Idk if I want the colts to have a winning season this year if we are going to continue down the path as we are. Hope coaches lose so we can get some new decision makers here. But the ultimate decision maker, is irsay so we will see. 

[The Fish]

2 hours ago, coltsfanatic24 said:

We've been rebuilding for 4 years now. We're so far away from being a SB contender. Too many needs on the defensive side of the ball.

You could argue that the Colts should have been rebuilding for 4 years now. I'm not entirely sure what that means though when they're playing in the AFCCG two years ago and 5 other playoff games since Luck showed up.

 

[deedub75]

7 hours ago, Indeee said:

Only 2 games in, however we all must realize that the Colts are quite possibly in a rebuild and it's doubtful we will make an impact this year. The Colts might not even win 5 games literally. I think when Irsay gave the two extensions to Pags and Grigs, it was basically conceding this was a do-over in many areas. Keep in mind regardless of what happens this year, we do have YOUNG pieces that hopefully will grow, stay uninjured and become a force over the next couple years.

 

Anderson, Dorsett, Moncrief, Kelly, Mcgill, Maggitt, Geathers, Green, Morrison, Mewhort... etc..

 

These guys are young and need to learn to play together. Also, in regards to next year, the Colts will have a lot of Cap space to work with and btw if we do finish with a top 5 draft pick, we could potentially land Myles Garrett!!

 

We have to let this play out, I just wouldn't expect much this year as so far, IMO, it goes beyond injuries... It's first year of DC change ( Again ), practically a OC change ( Again ) and virtually every position coach has been changed. Takes time is all I'm saying. Unfortunately to us fans 5 years have already been wasted.

 

 

 

I hate to believe that we are in rebuild mode because this regime obviously doesn't know how to do that.  

[deedub75]

6 hours ago, King Colt said:

Actually the Colts are playing descent even with a weak defense and I mean weak. The loss to Detroit should have never happened. Look at yesterdays' game with Tennessee. They held Denver down until the last few minutes of the game whish is the fault of the offense. The Jags got crushed yesterday so how good are they now? The Texans are the big concern but they are not a guaranteed winner in both games against the Colts if the Colts can retrieve some secondary starters off the injury list. The schedule will help or hurt and I don't have it in front of me so I can't say.

 

We've had a lot of games in the past that we should not have won but did win.  Colts got behind early in games, mostly due to Luck, and Luck was able to make big comebacks.  That is not the norm to win those games and the cumulative hits on Luck are eventually going to take a toll on him if they have not already.  

 

How can anyone look at any game on this schedule and think there are any guaranteed wins?  

[jameszeigler834]

1 hour ago, The Fish said:

You could argue that the Colts should have been rebuilding for 4 years now. I'm not entirely sure what that means though when they're playing in the AFCCG two years ago and 5 other playoff games since Luck showed up.

 

It means thy kept the team pretty much the same and expected luck to save us and its not fair to him.

[The Fish]

6 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

It means thy kept the team pretty much the same and expected luck to save us and its not fair to him.

Did I miss FA acquisitions and the drafts?

I know Grigson has a hard time drafting guys who actually stick on the 53 man roster.

The team isn't pretty much the same, the moves just haven't worked out well enough to put them over.

[bababooey]

Similar to our time with Peyton, Colts went from how many to please just one.

[ReMeDy]

8 hours ago, Indianapolis-Colts-Fan said:

Should have drafted oline after Andrew luck and also the next draft done the same. Then dline. The games are won in the trenches as you can see from that strip sack at the end. But I guess that's why I'm no GM. I want to win. 

 

To be fair though, he is now the highest paid player in the league, so in a way, he needs to take on that extra burden and carry the team. I don't necessarily feel sorry for him, lol.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

1 hour ago, ReMeDy said:

 

To be fair though, he is now the highest paid player in the league, so in a way, he needs to take on that extra burden and carry the team. I don't necessarily feel sorry for him, lol.

 

Some think luck is overrated. I think that he had too high of expectations put on him before he even entered the league. So now since he's not playing like Peyton manning, he is "overrated". 

[JR Indy]

One thing that is apparent looking at yesterday game. That better talent wins out and this team is over match by better talent. Yes this team will be haunted by 2013 draft or the lack thereof. I like this year and last year draft.  And I agree that this year team may not make the play-offs. But I am liking what Ryan is doing now. Even though it is painful to watch, but there are no short cuts to the top. The Colts have a lot of role players but no play-makers. I think this will happen in next year draft just be patient Colts Nation.

[Colt Overseas]

Our defense would be great if there was no such thing as 3rd downs.