The Pep Hamilton thread [Mega-merge]

[csmopar]

 

To me, just get Mike Shanahan for head coach and Kyle Shanahan for OC, we will instantly improve on so many fronts, IMO.

 

 

i HOPE you are joking....if not, please put down the bong water, it's not supposed to be drunk

[jvan1973]

Well, that would probably ensure the entire front office is fired at seasons end

[Coffeedrinker]

I wonder if Grigson did this kind of research before hiring Pep.

 

To me, just get Mike Shanahan for head coach and Kyle Shanahan for OC, we will instantly improve on so many fronts, IMO.

I think the Shannahans would be great but I'm afraid they would come to the Colts with the same issues they had had with the Redskins.  They would have someone else telling them who to acquire, who to play, what type of system to run, etc.

[Jason_]

Yes, by all means..they were a smashing success in DC

 

Luck >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg3

[#12.]

I wonder if Grigson did this kind of research before hiring Pep.

To me, just get Mike Shanahan for head coach and Kyle Shanahan for OC, we will instantly improve on so many fronts, IMO.

With you 100% on this one. Of any potential available option, it seems like the best one to me. Perfect offense for Luck. Perfect system to get Luck turned around.

Shanahan has 3 rings, two as a head coach, one as OC with the 49ers, and has been to several other Super Bowls. Plus, he's one of the few coaches out there who has been competitive with Belichick over the years. You wouldn't be going into every contest with the Pats feeling like you are spotting them 2 TDs on coaching alone. I wouldn't judge him on his relatively short stint, trying to be successful with Dan Snyder and RGIII. The next coach to be successful with Dan Snyder will be the first.

[Tsarquise]

Did everyone forget that Pep was the offensive coordinator the last two years, as well as this year? This isn't his first year in the NFL. I remember the offense being pretty successful last year.

I also remember the offense slicing through both the Bengals and Broncos January, all the way to the AFCCG.

[NewEra]

Yes, by all means..they were a smashing success in DC

That was more of a fallout between RG3, Snyder and Shanahan

[lollygagger8]

Just replace Pepe Le Pew with Chud and we can stop reading articles about how bad Pep sucks. 

 

Get it over with already. Everyone know's Pep is the issue. 

[NewColtsFan]

Can someone mail this to Irsay?

 

There's no need.     There are a number of falsehoods in this story.

 

I'll address those in another post.

[lollygagger8]

Well, that would probably ensure the entire front office is fired at seasons end

[NewColtsFan]

Just replace Pepe Le Pew with Chud and we can stop reading articles about how bad Pep sucks. 

 

Get it over with already. Everyone know's Pep is the issue. 

 

There are a lot of issues with this offense.

 

Pep is one them.     To me,  he's the biggest one,  but with our o-line and spotty running game,   that's splitting hairs.

 

If Chud becomes the OC tomorrow,  the offense still has problems.

[ProblChld32]

Even though Chud is supposedly a "Pagano guy" I think he would take over. I think Irsay understands that Pep is probably part of the issue with the teams struggles and would install Chud as the interim. Heck, maybe he's the long term solution??

 

I wouldn't be to opposed to this either.

[NewColtsFan]

There are a number of problems with the story  and here's the first big one that jumped out at me.....    I'll cut and paste and hi-lite the flaw....

 

 

The following season, 2011, Harbaugh left Stanford for the NFL and a head coaching job with the San Francisco 49'ers. At Stanford, Offensive Coordinator David Shaw was promoted to Head Coach, and WR coach Pep Hamilton was promoted to OC.  Here is a very interesting fact to keep in the back of your mind.  Harbaugh I am sure asked Shaw to come with him to SF, but Shaw is a Stanford man, a true grad with a ton of history with the school, dating back to his father even. He now had his dream job. That didn't stop Harbaugh from pilfering the rest of this (his) staff though. He convinced DC Vic Fangio to come along with him to be his new DC, and he also roped in TE/OL coach Greg Roman to be his new OC. You have to at least wonder if Pep Hamilton was ever a consideration for Harbaugh, and if he wasn't, why not?

 

 

Note a couple of things...   the writer says "here is a very interesting FACT.    And then makes it clear that it's not a fact at all, it's OPINION.  "Harbaugh I'm sure asked Shaw to come with him to SF...."

 

FALSE.    Completely false.

 

​Harbaugh and Shaw are not that close.      That's a fact.      Here's another.....    Harbaugh demoted Shaw from OC to mostly WR coach.   Shaw was allowed to keep the title but the worst kept secret is that Greg Roman (who followed Harbs to SF as the OC and is now the OC in Buffalo)  was the actual OC.    (Roman's title was running game coordinator,  but he was the play caller.)   Harbaugh did NOT ask Shaw to come with him.      Also, Harbaugh was NOT popular with most of the Stanford coaching staff.   When Harbs left Stanford the staff that stayed behind would not be described as fans of Harbaugh.

 

Harbs had a habit of coming back to the Stanford campus -- unannounced.    The coaching staff asked Harbs not to do that, and to call ahead to tell everyone he was coming.     That way,  the staff could be sure not to be there when he was around if possible.      Harris was not popular with the staff.

 

Harbs and Shaw have grudging respect for one another.    I'm sure they'd say they're friends,  but they're not close.

 

If you're Pep Hamilton,  would you rather be an NFL position coach,  or would you rather be the OC at Stanford, which, at the time, was one of the hottest rising programs in the country.      I don't know if Harbs offered Pep a job,  but Shaw did, and he made him the OC.    

[Ja'Crispy]

I think most of the threads in the last week or two qualify as "disturbing thoughts."

[NewColtsFan]

Another badly thought out paragraph is the one where the writer addresses the offensive troubles that Stanford had in 2012.    A season that end, by the way,  with a victory in the Rose Bowl.

 

The writer sites two Stanford losses and poor play calling in several games.    Those are on Shaw and every Stanford fan knows it.     The 4 runs into the teeth of the ND offense at the goal line at the end of the game -- that's classic Shaw,  not Pep.       The sluggish performance in the season opener vs. San Jose State?     That's also classic Shaw and not Pep.

 

Let's not forget, a fall-off in the offense was completely expected.    Stanford just lost Andrew Luck,  David DeCastro,  Jonathan Martin and Coby Fleener,  among many others.      The offense was always going to be a work in progress.        And while Stanford's struggled badly for roughly 2/3rds of the season,  what was happening behind the scenes was that Pep and Shaw were grooming a red-shirt freshman QB to take over.    They were force-feeding Kevin Hogan to take over, which he did in game 9.   And then Hogan went undefeated....   6-0.     4 regular season wins, plus the conference championship plus the Rose Bowl.      

 

Pep gets tremendous credit for achieving all that.     We kept winning with a below average QB that he inherited,  and at the same time,  he was grooming the replacement on the practice field.      All stanford did that year was finish 12-2 and I think we were ranked about 6th or 7th. 

 

Pep does not suck.     He's average and average isn't good enough.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I have had a horrible... terrible...awful thought...

 

What if during the bye week Irsay fires Pagano.... and PEP HAMILTON is installed as the interim HC?????

 

Hamilton is reportedly Grigson's guy... Has been looked at last off season for HC positions... This would be a good chance for him to audition for the HC position full time...

 

Irsay is nothing if not unpredictable... I could seriously see this being a possibility. 

 

I hope to the gods it doesn't... but crazier things have happened...

 

Thoughts?

Scary

[indyagent17]

Obviously Grigson took the straightest path in hiring some Luck had been working with at Stanford. It's was a mistaken path and our offense is paying for it.

Fire Pep and elevate Chud

[indyagent17]

Does throwing up in your mouth have any calories?

[will426]

Did everyone forget that Pep was the offensive coordinator the last two years, as well as this year? This isn't his first year in the NFL. I remember the offense being pretty successful last year.

I also remember the offense slicing through both the Bengals and Broncos January, all the way to the AFCCG.

and that's the problem it was successful last year he didn't change nor adapt its the same thing. It got luck killed last year toward the end and and it's getting him killed now. You can see it in games he doesn't adjust in any quarter and the sad thing is we've seen him change up the playcalling to benefit us yet he's being too stubborn and forcing this style every start of the game

[chad72]

Luck >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg3

 

This is what people do not understand. The Shanahans were forced to go more with the read option because that is what RG3 could run well, and once RG3 got hurt, they were forced to go conventional and the results were abysmal because RG3 could not handle it.

 

West Coast concepts, short passing game, taking selective shots down the field, using the run game with the RB to control tempo is all part of their offensive thought process. Some folks here don't get that. It is just so lazy and convenient to say "Oh, the Shanahans were not successful with Washington, so they must be no good." 

 

I do agree that you may need a coach friendly GM unlike Grigson to implement things that they like. That is the only part that concerns me. If we are getting a new coach, we might as well get a new GM, IMO. The issue was Shanahan's previous stint at Denver was long enough that owner Pat Bowlen gave him too long a leash, and that proved to be not so good w.r.t control issues.

[Larry Horseman]

Why do folks think Chud is a short or long term answer? He doesn't have that impressive of a resume and is part of the problem as one of the higher ranking coaching staff. I'd just as soon ride it out this year with Pagano and let the heads fall where they may after the season...

[Jason_]

This is what people do not understand. The Shanahans were forced to go more with the read option because that is what RG3 could run well, and once RG3 got hurt, they were forced to go conventional and the results were abysmal because RG3 could not handle it.

 

West Coast concepts, short passing game, taking selective shots down the field, using the run game with the RB to control tempo is all part of their offensive thought process. Some folks here don't get that. It is just so lazy and convenient to say "Oh, the Shanahans were not successful with Washington, so they must be no good." 

 

I do agree that you may need a coach friendly GM unlike Grigson to implement things that they like. That is the only part that concerns me. If we are getting a new coach, we might as well get a new GM, IMO. The issue was Shanahan's previous stint at Denver was long enough that owner Pat Bowlen gave him too long a leash, and that proved to be not so good w.r.t control issues.

 

Yep all around.  The thing I like most about Shanahan is that he's pretty much had a 1,000 yard rusher every season that he's spent as an OC or HC.  He could turn around the Colts rushing game and he would put much more emphasis on the running game, which in and of itself would make things exponentially easier for Luck.  

[ProblChld32]

Why do folks think Chud is a short or long term answer? He doesn't have that impressive of a resume and is part of the problem as one of the higher ranking coaching staff. I'd just as soon ride it out this year with Pagano and let the heads fall where they may after the season...

 

And how do you figure he is apart of the problem? Do you even know what his job functions are as apart of this organization?

[Tsarquise]

and that's the problem it was successful last year he didn't change nor adapt its the same thing. It got luck killed last year toward the end and and it's getting him killed now. You can see it in games he doesn't adjust in any quarter and the sad thing is we've seen him change up the playcalling to benefit us yet he's being too stubborn and forcing this style every start of the game

Except he does adapt. He doesn't stubbornly stick to things that don't work. It sounds more like you're describing the Arians offense that Luck ran in his rookie year.

[lollygagger8]

There are a lot of issues with this offense.

 

Pep is one them.     To me,  he's the biggest one,  but with our o-line and spotty running game,   that's splitting hairs.

 

If Chud becomes the OC tomorrow,  the offense still has problems.

 

The difference between Chud and Pep is, Chud's smart enough to fix the problems with the offense. 

[Larry Horseman]

And how do you figure he is apart of the problem? Do you even know what his job functions are as apart of this organization?

 

Read this article: http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2014/06/11/exactly-coach-rob-chudzinski-colts/10342289/

 

He has his hands in multiple parts of preparation in some way or another on all sides of the ball. I don't really see how you could think that the Associate Head Coach isn't part of the problem when it is obvious that the coaching staff is struggling. 

[will426]

Yep all around. The thing I like most about Shanahan is that he's pretty much had a 1,000 yard rusher every season that he's spent as an OC or HC. He could turn around the Colts rushing game and he would put much more emphasis on the running game, which in and of itself would make things exponentially easier for Luck.

this and he runs zone which actually is suited for our piece of crap line better than man lol

[Rally5]

Another badly thought out paragraph is the one where the writer addresses the offensive troubles that Stanford had in 2012.    A season that end, by the way,  with a victory in the Rose Bowl.

 

The writer sites two Stanford losses and poor play calling in several games.    Those are on Shaw and every Stanford fan knows it.     The 4 runs into the teeth of the ND offense at the goal line at the end of the game -- that's classic Shaw,  not Pep.       The sluggish performance in the season opener vs. San Jose State?     That's also classic Shaw and not Pep.

 

Let's not forget, a fall-off in the offense was completely expected.    Stanford just lost Andrew Luck,  David DeCastro,  Jonathan Martin and Coby Fleener,  among many others.      The offense was always going to be a work in progress.        And while Stanford's struggled badly for roughly 2/3rds of the season,  what was happening behind the scenes was that Pep and Shaw were grooming a red-shirt freshman QB to take over.    They were force-feeding Kevin Hogan to take over, which he did in game 9.   And then Hogan went undefeated....   6-0.     4 regular season wins, plus the conference championship plus the Rose Bowl.      

 

Pep gets tremendous credit for achieving all that.     We kept winning with a below average QB that he inherited,  and at the same time,  he was grooming the replacement on the practice field.      All stanford did that year was finish 12-2 and I think we were ranked about 6th or 7th. 

 

Pep does not suck.     He's average and average isn't good enough.

 

Here's some basic coaching indictments of his NFL career in my opnion:

 

1. He is horrible at game planning: 1 touchdown in the last 24 opening drives. I can honestly say I would do better.

2. Penalties - When you lead in penalties you lack simple disciplines.

3. Turnovers - You don't win in the NFL when you lose the TO battle.

4. Our offensive is far too complicated, in order to master something you need to repeat it over and over again until perfected.  We not only run far too many plays but we don't go back to what works.

5. Not  effective at in game adjustments.

 

These are fundamentals / basics, Pep looks good, sounds good, nice temperament, not a strategist or disciplinarian based on his work product.  In the end, Pep will be the primary cause for Chuck getting canned.  We can call this one an over-promotion, he's a Position Coach in the NFL and maybe a coordinator at the collegiate level.

[crazycolt1]

The thing that stuck out to me was the comment that Pep came up through the ranks on the backs of other coaches. If I am not mistaken that is how every coach comes up through the ranks. This article could have been written about all coaches. The only reason it is getting much attention now is there are a bunch who have jumped fire the Pep wagon.

[NewColtsFan]

The difference between Chud and Pep is, Chud's smart enough to fix the problems with the offense. 

 

I hope you're right.     I really, really do.

 

I hope the problems that we have are problems that Chud can fix on the fly,  and not have to wait until the off-season to do so.

[King Colt]

Why is the debate on why a team is good or bad always coach or players? NE comes up with players we never heard of, they are instant stars. Go figure.

[Surge89]

I think the Shannahans would be great but I'm afraid they would come to the Colts with the same issues they had had with the Redskins. They would have someone else telling them who to acquire, who to play, what type of system to run, etc.

Which is a really big problem.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Aren't there HCs that call plays in the NFL?

 

Plenty.  Here's the list-

 

Bruce Arians, Sean Payton, Ken Whisenhunt, Chip Kelly, Andy Reid, Jay Gruden, Bill O'Brien, and Gary Kubiak on offense, and Mike Zimmer along with Rex Ryan on defense.    1/4 the coaches on Offense, and 1/16th the coaches on Defense.

[ProblChld32]

Read this article: http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2014/06/11/exactly-coach-rob-chudzinski-colts/10342289/

 

He has his hands in multiple parts of preparation in some way or another on all sides of the ball. I don't really see how you could think that the Associate Head Coach isn't part of the problem when it is obvious that the coaching staff is struggling. 

 

This still does not validate your point, how exactly is he the issue? the article clearly states he does a plethora of duties for this team and not limited to one. So how do you determine he is the problem?

[will426]

Except he does adapt. He doesn't stubbornly stick to things that don't work. It sounds more like you're describing the Arians offense that Luck ran in his rookie year.

eh what?? When in the hell has he adapted besides when Mh came in and we saw some exotic foreign playcalls from him? It's looked the same the past couple years and this year it's even worse with lack of TE routes but I blame luck for not seeing the open fleener..but even Allen is underutilized when healthy. And if you're saying he doesn't stick to things that don't work where have you been the past two years? Forcing the run with T-Rich? 3 straight run plays? This is probably the only year he isn't forcing the run and that's stupid because it's actually WORKING. His long developing playcalls always come back in his games I doubt luck is changing to 5-7 drop plays with this damn Oline

[SteelCityColt]

I would find it somewhat funny if it turned out Pep had been pulling a fast one all this time and knew nothing about coaching football. A NFL version of "Catch me if you can" if you will. 

[21isSuperman]

I have had a horrible... terrible...awful thought...

 

What if during the bye week Irsay fires Pagano.... and PEP HAMILTON is installed as the interim HC?????

 

Hamilton is reportedly Grigson's guy... Has been looked at last off season for HC positions... This would be a good chance for him to audition for the HC position full time...

 

Irsay is nothing if not unpredictable... I could seriously see this being a possibility. 

 

I hope to the gods it doesn't... but crazier things have happened...

 

Thoughts?

 

 

This is a great article that breaks down Pep's history as an offensive coach.

The conclusion that I take away is that Pep has ridden up the ranks on the backs of other, more skilled coaches. Now that he is isolated, he is being exposed.

Thoughts?

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2015/10/26/9618586/a-closer-look-at-the-stanford-luck-hamilton-connection

Merged your threads

[21isSuperman]

Here's my question to all the people who think Pep is bad.  What about his performance last year?  His playcalling was one of the main reasons why our team had one of the league's best offenses.  Personally, I think there is too much criticism on Pep.  His playcalling hasn't been perfect, but let's not forget that this guy led us to being one of the league's top offenses last year.  I think a lot of the blame falls on Luck for making bad decisions and not taking care of the football.  People are saying Pep doesn't know what he's doing and he doesn't know how to gameplan, but he did just fine last year.

[Superman]

Here's my question to all the people who think Pep is bad.  What about his performance last year?  His playcalling was one of the main reasons why our team had one of the league's best offenses.  Personally, I think there is too much criticism on Pep.  His playcalling hasn't been perfect, but let's not forget that this guy led us to being one of the league's top offenses last year.  I think a lot of the blame falls on Luck for making bad decisions and not taking care of the football.  People are saying Pep doesn't know what he's doing and he doesn't know how to gameplan, but he did just fine last year.

 

Speaking for myself, I was critical of plenty of Pep's gameplans last year. Not enough play action, not enough hot routes, poor screen game, etc. With the offense being productive, there's not a lot of discussion about that kind of stuff, but we were talking about the same things that are happening right now. 

 

And even if that wasn't the case, this season especially, Pep has shown an alarming disregard for common sense offensive philosophies (sticking with the run, quick passing) and concepts (play action, hot routes) that help take pressure off of a struggling OL and QB. Not only is that on Pep, it's also on Pagano. I don't expect Pagano to grab the play sheet and start making calls himself, nor do I want him to. But at some point during a 4 or 5 possession stretch with no run plays, I would think between the two of them, that would get fixed. Yet, that's happened twice this season, both in games that were manageable and well within reach, not blowouts. 

 

Regardless what he's done in the past, what he's done this year has me convinced that he's not a good play caller.

[NewEra]

Yeah I haven't liked Pep since the hire. Either way you cut it Pep is doing a horrible job at getting our QB and offense in any kind of rythm. Most of the time we are trying to pick up a 3rd and long cause he ran it the first down then went empty backfield the second. He is horrible at making adjustments, especially on the fly. He may be good to decent in college but this is the NFL. These NFL DC's are making him look ridiculous. We also are not running the hurry up or no huddle like we have in the past. It's like he try's to over think the offense instead of doing what works and doing it well.