A.Q. Shipley Says 2014 Was Very Hard For HIm

[krunk]

I hate to start this up again, but what the heck as there is not much news going around the web at this time.  I can kind of sympathize with him because he was better than Harrison. I knew they didn't view Shipley as the future though. 

 

http://www.chatsports.com/indianapolis-colts/a/Latest-Colts-links-AQ-Shipley-says-2014-was-trying-0-11496049

 

"'Last year was trying for me. I mean, it really was,' Shipley said.

"... Shipley was told by Colts management that he had played well, but said neither coach Chuck Pagano or general manager Ryan Grigson gave him "a specific reason" why he wasn't starting at center.

"'It was hard to keep my mouth shut,' Shipley said. 'That's the biggest thing. I knew at the end of the day I didn't want to be a cancer. I did not want to be a cancer to the team. We had a great team. We had a great season going, so I didn't want to be that.

"'I just kinda had to go to work. I got a pretty fun personality. I couldn't. I just ... I was there. I went to work. I did what I had to do. I did my football stuff. I did my stuff and I went home. But I couldn't be 100 percent me because it was so hard.'"

[TKnight24]

Can't give you a reason why you benched Shipley cause there's no logical reason on this green earth why he would get benched

[21isSuperman]

He certainly had to endure a lot.  It speaks to his character that he didn't go complaining to the media about it.

 

I remember after the Cowboys game, someone posted something on these forums that said Shipley said he was going to leave Indy this offseason (which he did).  Was that just hearsay or did he actually say that?  It doesn't really make a difference at this point since he's already signed with another team, but I'm interested in knowing whether he actually said it

[colts8718]

He played well while he was here good luck to him

[COLTS449]

Yeah I can imagine he was upset. And yeah it does show he's a good dude for not making a scene and causing hell over it. It would be hard to keep your mouth shut over it when you go play your butt of and play extremely well and then get replaced by some guy like Harrison who just sucks. I mean I know someone's gonna reply to that remark pretty quick saying this or that, but the fact is Shipley was good, Harrison sucked. Everybody was all "oh but Shipley's too small, he's got short arms, he's weak" blah, blah, blah, it don't matter. He was playing well. Very well. That's all that should have mattered. It was complete bull.

[ReMeDy]

Well, management must have had their reasons, especially with Grigson being a former o-lineman, but I'm surprised they never gave him a reason.

[Valpo2004]

I have to say I really don't like what this team does at center I really don't.  

 

It always seems like they manage to start the worst center on the team for one reason or another.  

[Superman]

Good on him for being a solid pro and good teammate. I'm sure it was hard on him, and his replacement didn't really seem like an upgrade. I hope he does well in Arizona, back with Arians.

 

However, as always, I disagree with the insistence that Shipley's play was beyond reproach. He gave up a lot of pressures up the middle, and he wasn't doing anything in the run game. He was average, at best, and probably wouldn't have been on the team if Holmes didn't get hurt in the preseason. 

[lollygagger8]

I always thought Shipley did alright at center. 

 

Picking his nose too much? idk, 

 

 

[Dustin]

I'd imagine. Playing that well and getting benched for clearly inferior players must have been hard. 

[MB-ColtsFan]

Well, management must have had their reasons, especially with Grigson being a former o-lineman, but I'm surprised they never gave him a reason.

I hear what you're saying - and I agree with you.

It just seems so odd that a huge majority (in my opinion) thought Ship played well enough to start over Harrison and yet the staff

kept Ship on the bench.  I have no issue with playing for future growth "when it doesn't impede your team's performance when you

have a better option in place".  In my mind Ship was the better option during the games I was able to see.

 

Why are we letting any one player slow the progress of the entire team?? 

[Jdubu]

Yeah I can imagine he was upset. And yeah it does show he's a good dude for not making a scene and causing hell over it. It would be hard to keep your mouth shut over it when you go play your butt of and play extremely well and then get replaced by some guy like Harrison who just sucks. I mean I know someone's gonna reply to that remark pretty quick saying this or that, but the fact is Shipley was good, Harrison sucked. Everybody was all "oh but Shipley's too small, he's got short arms, he's weak" blah, blah, blah, it don't matter. He was playing well. Very well. That's all that should have mattered. It was complete bull.

The problem with Shipley was he wasn't glaring bad most of the times but he just wasn't a standout wow type player either. When you have that and 2 draft picks with youth and promising talent, teams try and develop promising players over just a workman like guy at his ceiling already. I would have to think that was part of the front office thinking, develop the young talent as long as he isn't so bad he isn't getting it and put Shipley in if a guy gets hurt or is just so god awful you have to. Development is important and sometimes you have to take the painful learning curve of a young player with the potential to be your starter for 10 years vs your 1-2 year stop gap avg player. Shipley was nothing special, he didn't stand out no matter how great a teammate he was.

[Dustin]

The problem with Shipley was he wasn't glaring bad most of the times but he just wasn't a standout wow type player either. When you have that and 2 draft picks with youth and promising talent, teams try and develop promising players over just a workman like guy at his ceiling already. I would have to think that was part of the front office thinking, develop the young talent as long as he isn't so bad he isn't getting it and put Shipley in if a guy gets hurt or is just so god awful you have to. Development is important and sometimes you have to take the painful learning curve of a young player with the potential to be your starter for 10 years vs your 1-2 year stop gap avg player. Shipley was nothing special, he didn't stand out no matter how great a teammate he was.

 

This is working under the assumption that players can only develop playing in actual games. 

 

If it were Holmes who was replacing him I'd understand better (even though it would have been a terrible decision regardless), but replacing him with a rookie, when you've already expressed your preference to not have rookie starters across the o-line is crazy. Shipley was playing well, and was replaced by a guy who could barely snap the football correctly. 

[Smonroe]

The problem with Shipley was he wasn't glaring bad most of the times but he just wasn't a standout wow type player either. When you have that and 2 draft picks with youth and promising talent, teams try and develop promising players over just a workman like guy at his ceiling already. I would have to think that was part of the front office thinking, develop the young talent as long as he isn't so bad he isn't getting it and put Shipley in if a guy gets hurt or is just so god awful you have to. Development is important and sometimes you have to take the painful learning curve of a young player with the potential to be your starter for 10 years vs your 1-2 year stop gap avg player. Shipley was nothing special, he didn't stand out no matter how great a teammate he was.

 

I tend to agree - and also echo that you're not saying he was any better or worse than the other two.  Just that the others may have shown more potential and Ship is what he is.  We don't get to see the practices or the film room.  We also don't really know player assignments or who's better at making line calls.  We're only going by what we see on the field.

 

Also, I'm not sure it they're still online but Ben Gundy did a weekly O-line analysis for Colts Academy.  He monitored every block on every play.  If I recall correctly, Shipley wasn't exactly heads and tails above the others.

 

[throwing BBZ]

 Lots of bull here.
 Games 3 &4 of Ships were blowouts against Pathetic Jags & Tenn.
 The quality of the competition was changing from game 5 on.
 

 It worked out fine and the right guy is still on the roster.
 A guy with the physical size and skills to compete as the starter at center and who Could also develop into a solid backup/starter at guard.
 Ship was below average physically at center and Not the guy you wanted on the game day roster as your backup Guard/center. BYE!

[Jason_]

we need to bring back Shipley, Mike Hart, Roy Hall, Cesar Rayford, John Chick, Lawrence Guy and...who am I missing?  We'll be Superbowl bound for sure!   Ugh, and Marcus Burley...how could I forget the great Marcus Burley!!

[Coffeedrinker]

we need to bring back Shipley, Mike Hart, Roy Hall, Cesar Rayford, John Chick, Lawrence Guy and...who am I missing?  We'll be Superbowl bound for sure!   Ugh, and Marcus Burley...how could I forget the great Marcus Burley!!

You know, I usually like your posts but this one doesn't make any sense.  Because with Shipley and Hart they actually produced on the field in real games, Shipley was benched for no apparent reason and Hart was sidelined by injuries.

 

Hall, Chick, Rayford, and Guy never really produced on the field.  Burley, I don't remember a lot of people saying anything about Burley.

[The Peytonator]

I always thought Shipley did alright at center. 

 

Picking his nose too much? idk, 

 

 

 

 

I feel for the guy, he was definitely the most effective center on the roster last year. If he had complained about his lack of playing time though, the media would have crapped all over him, and the booger .gif would have gotten a decent amount of play by the sports news outlets. Nothing makes for a better end-of-the-show, harr harr quip, like a backup center that no one's ever heard of saying he deserves more playing time.

[Jason_]

You know, I usually like your posts but this one doesn't make any sense.  Because with Shipley and Hart they actually produced on the field in real games, Shipley was benched for no apparent reason and Hart was sidelined by injuries.

 

Hall, Chick, Rayford, and Guy never really produced on the field.  Burley, I don't remember a lot of people saying anything about Burley.

 

There was a minor uproar on the forums when Burley was traded to Seattle.  I just don't get all of the criticism towards the front office and coaching staff for the decisions they made on these marginal (at best) players.  

[The Peytonator]

You know, I usually like your posts but this one doesn't make any sense.  Because with Shipley and Hart they actually produced on the field in real games, Shipley was benched for no apparent reason and Hart was sidelined by injuries.

 

Hall, Chick, Rayford, and Guy never really produced on the field.  Burley, I don't remember a lot of people saying anything about Burley.

 

 

Yeah, I wasn't one of goofy fanboys that Hart brought with him, but the guy was pretty damn solid in his limited playing time. I still remember that 4th down run against the Ravens that he converted by sheer will. It looked a lot like the CJ Anderson run against us in the playoff game. I love backs that just grind out tough yards.

[Nobody]

Wow, I like him even more now. And dislike the coaching staff even more.

[Jason_]

Wow, I like him even more now. And dislike the coaching staff even more.

 

over A.Q. Shipley?  Really??

[Coffeedrinker]

There was a minor uproar on the forums when Burley was traded to Seattle.  I just don't get all of the criticism towards the front office and coaching staff for the decisions they made on these marginal (at best) players.  

Well (and this is just regarding Shipley) when a coach or GM replaces a marginal player with a below average player then the move is going to be questioned.

 

You probably would not hear much from fans if they replaced Shipley with Holmes and Holmes played as well as he did the last few games of the season and the playoffs.  But instead they replaced him with a guy that had (me at least) saying, "they should have kept Satele."

[21isSuperman]

Good on him for being a solid pro and good teammate. I'm sure it was hard on him, and his replacement didn't really seem like an upgrade. I hope he does well in Arizona, back with Arians.

 

However, as always, I disagree with the insistence that Shipley's play was beyond reproach. He gave up a lot of pressures up the middle, and he wasn't doing anything in the run game. He was average, at best, and probably wouldn't have been on the team if Holmes didn't get hurt in the preseason. 

Average at best is still better than what Harrison showed.  At least he didn't muff snaps.  Even if he isn't/wasn't the best option on the team, he was the best available option and he played much better than what Harrison showed.  So to get yanked after playing decently well, then seeing a guy play worse than you and continue to get starts, it makes me wonder what the coaching staff was seeing.  I don't think anyone would have said he's perfect, but he was the best option we had and we still yanked him and gave starts and snaps to an inferior player.

[Jason_]

Well (and this is just regarding Shipley) when a coach or GM replaces a marginal player with a below average player then the move is going to be questioned.

You probably would not hear much from fans if they replaced Shipley with Holmes and Holmes played as well as he did the last few games of the season and the playoffs. But instead they replaced him with a guy that had (me at least) saying, "they should have kept Satele."

Yeah but some are acting like they benched alex mack for harrison.

[Coffeedrinker]

Yeah, I wasn't one of goofy fanboys that Hart brought with him, but the guy was pretty damn solid in his limited playing time. I still remember that 4th down run against the Ravens that he converted by sheer will. It looked a lot like the CJ Anderson run against us in the playoff game. I love backs that just grind out tough yards.

 I'm a Michigan fan, so I probably was one of those "goofy fanboys".  I still remember Hart got his first start against the Texans and a lot of D. Brown fans were upset.  Hart ran the ball 12 times for 84 yards in that game and Brown carries the ball like 5 times for 12 yards.  The next day DB supporters were actually claiming that the oline blocked better for Hart than they did for DB.

 

That 4th down run against the Ravens was another example of what he brought to the table.  Poor guy just could not stay healthy.

[Coffeedrinker]

Yeah but some are acting like they benched alex mack for harrison.

True.

 

I don't put any stock in PFF olineman grades/ratings (and I argues with people at the time that Shipley was not as good as his PFF grade would make one think) but I'm only putting this out there as to why some fans are acting like that.  At the time Shipley was benched, his PFF grade was higher than Mack's.

[Nobody]

over A.Q. Shipley? Really??

If you're making a point I can't see it. Yes I dislike that the staff started worse players over him time and time again.

[ColtsBlueFL]

A.Q. Shipley and the Colts management and brass-

 

[NewColtsFan]

If you're making a point I can't see it. Yes I dislike that the staff started worse players over him time and time again.

 

Harrison and Holmes may or may not have been worse than Shipley......   but Shipley -- as much I liked him -- had a low ceiling and a limited future.    Holmes and Harrison both have a higher ceiling and the club felt it was time they be given playing time so their future started last year.    The sooner you start, the sooner you get there.

 

I'm not sure we lost any games because of who we started at center.    But this topic continues to get beat to death.

 

I'm pleased that Shipley was a classy guy and a team player and took one for the team.   He was rewarded by signing a deal with Arizona.

 

If some here don't like our front office and question their ability to judge talent,  let's not forget we traded Shipley to Baltimore and the Ravens didn't do much with him either.   Did he play there a year?    And then they let him go.   Maybe Shipley is not what some here think he is....

[Superman]

This is working under the assumption that players can only develop playing in actual games. 

 

If it were Holmes who was replacing him I'd understand better (even though it would have been a terrible decision regardless), but replacing him with a rookie, when you've already expressed your preference to not have rookie starters across the o-line is crazy. Shipley was playing well, and was replaced by a guy who could barely snap the football correctly. 

 

No one on the Colt staff ever expressed a preference to not start rookies on the offensive line. There are plenty of examples of this staff starting rookie linemen, including Shipley starting 5 games in 2012.

[Dustin]

No one on the Colt staff ever expressed a preference to not start rookies on the offensive line. There are plenty of examples of this staff starting rookie linemen, including Shipley starting 5 games in 2012.

Yeah, because of injuries.

[Superman]

Average at best is still better than what Harrison showed.  At least he didn't muff snaps.  Even if he isn't/wasn't the best option on the team, he was the best available option and he played much better than what Harrison showed.  So to get yanked after playing decently well, then seeing a guy play worse than you and continue to get starts, it makes me wonder what the coaching staff was seeing.  I don't think anyone would have said he's perfect, but he was the best option we had and we still yanked him and gave starts and snaps to an inferior player.

 

Aside from snap issues, Harrison was fine. Nothing great himself, but this stuff is out of control. Let the majority of this board tell it, and Harrison doesn't even belong on the practice squad. Even the snap issues are blown out of proportion. 

 

Shipley couldn't pick up an inside blitz. He could hardly identify an inside blitz. The Eagles in particular killed us with inside blitzes all game, and Shipley did nothing about it. He wasn't much better than Harrison at anything, aside from not having snap issues. And obviously, the thinking of the staff was that Harrison could potentially play better than he did. Heaven forbid the staff could act on what they've seen in practice and play the guy they felt had more potential...

[Superman]

Yeah, because of injuries.

 

How does that matter? Shipley was only on the roster to begin with because of injuries.

 

The point is that this staff has expressed no aversion to starting rookie linemen. Every year they've been here, rookie linemen have started several games.

[Gavin]

Aside from snap issues, Harrison was fine. Nothing great himself, but this stuff is out of control. Let the majority of this board tell it, and Harrison doesn't even belong on the practice squad. Even the snap issues are blown out of proportion. 

 

Shipley couldn't pick up an inside blitz. He could hardly identify an inside blitz. The Eagles in particular killed us with inside blitzes all game, and Shipley did nothing about it. He wasn't much better than Harrison at anything, aside from not having snap issues. And obviously, the thinking of the staff was that Harrison could potentially play better than he did. Heaven forbid the staff could act on what they've seen in practice and play the guy they felt had more potential...

"Shipley couldn't pick up an inside blitz. He could hardly identify an inside blitz."

 

Bingo!, He also failed at line calls multiple times

[Superman]

Ben Gundy on Shipley: http://coltsacademy.com/?p=3648

 

In a vacuum, the Colts’ lineup decisions vis-à-vis Shipley make some sense. Though he’s a decent player when things are going well, Shipley’s game has glaring holes, including difficulty with stunts (28/37, or 76%, for the season, a rate that’s better than Harrison’s 65%, but far below Holmes’ 88%) and an inability to consistently generate movement in the run game (the Colts mostly ran away from him; he averaged a gap block every 3.0 run blocks, easily the lowest rate on the team). Both Harrison and Holmes have far more talent. The Colts’ line is in need of a dominant interior player, and both young guys – Harrison in particular – flashed that kind of ability.

 

This guy watched, charted and graded every snap from every lineman in 2014, and better yet, published all his work.

[Archangel]

As far as I am concerned you play the best player you have to advance to the next game . You do not start changing proven players with project players or developing players in the middle of the season. If your team is winning big and the game is out of reach then you can give some reps to the developmental squad, The purpose of winning is getting yourself as a team in a good postion for seeding in the playoffs and that you are also striving for the SB 

[Coffeedrinker]

Ben Gundy on Shipley: http://coltsacademy.com/?p=3648

 

 

This guy watched, charted and graded every snap from every lineman in 2014, and better yet, published all his work.

I like Gundy's break down even though I don't always agree with it.  he is very thorough and usually right on the money.

 

Some of the things I don't like.  Look at the piece on Harrison

 

Watch the clip he has of his "best block".  Now Harrison does knock Peko back and that shows his strength (although I think Harrison showed that pop and strength very rarely) but then he is too slow to come off the block to get the LB.  If #57 shot the gap rather than filling and waiting he would have tackled Boom in the backfield for a loss.  Instead he stops in the hole and allows Harrison to get a hand on him.

 

That's it's not Harrison's fault #57 didn't shoot through the hole, once he came of Peko he made the block but there were so many times when his slowness coming off the double caused a sack, pressure or a tackle for a loss.

As a side note on Harrison's worst block clip, Reitz looked really bad as well.

 

I also want to state, that I have no issue if the coach wants to make a change because he thinks there can be improvement.  But when the change is made and the new player proves to be worse than the previous player, I do question that coaches decision making ability and player evaluation skills.  And I'm not necessarily saying it's Pagano, it may have been the oline coach telling him Harrison is ready and there will be some growing pains but there should not be a drop-off.  or maybe it was Grigs coming in and telling him to start Harrison.  But somewhere along the line someone said that it would be better for the team to start Harrison instead of Shipley... and whoever made that decision was wrong in 2014.

[OLD FAN MAN]

bruce was very glad whoever made the decision for the colts to cut him was made. he ran in and grabbed a quality player just like the bills grabbed jerry hughs in a trade, ist rd pick for trent, someone on the colts front office is making bad player decisions

[Dustin]

How does that matter? 

 

There's no need to be intentionally obtuse. You know exactly why that makes a difference. 

 

Harrison is the only rookie to get a start on his own "merit" and not because the guy above him got injured and there weren't any other choices.