Brady suspended four games, Pats fined and docked two draft picks (Mega Merge)

[ricker182]

You guys think this won't tarnish the Patriots' championships, but people are still talking about Spygate when their first championships come up even though they more than likely aren't related.

This infraction is even more significant.

When you get caught once you lose all benefit of the doubt.

Sorry Pats fans. Your championships are surrounded by mental asterisks.

[OffensivelyPC]

Civil is legal. You don't need "beyond a reasonable doubt." The proof threshold is similar to Wells' "more probable than not." 

In fact, ti's the exact same.

[dynasty13]

It's not r"i"diculous at all imo.

 

Honest question for you. Are you more upset with the action itself of under inflating the footballs to gain an advantage and you think the punishment fits that crime...or are you more upset with how the Patriots handled the fallout and you think the punishment fits that behavior?

[Superman]

I have never once said that the Patriots did nothing wrong. All I have ever said since the beginning was that the report had holes and a lack of proof and thats what we are questioning. I think the punishment is beyond rediculous and I think it's nonsense that the NFL is trying to make the claim (through the severity of punishment) that this 'unfair advantage' was any bigger than any of the recent cases involving intentional manipulation of what is considered natural. There is no consistency in how they handle these cases and that's wrong.

 

Let's set consistency aside, if you don't mind. Just because we might say that the NFL hasn't been handling things right in the past doesn't mean that there's necessarily something wrong with how they handled this. I think that's immaterial, and really, inadmissible. "You guys messed up the Ray Rice suspension, why should we accept this suspension?" Not a good argument, IMO.

 

As for whether you said the Pats didn't do anything wrong, you've spent plenty of time here arguing against the report, which was used by the NFL to establish guilt. If you think the report is lacking proof and had holes, then what conclusion am I to draw? Are you saying 'yeah, maybe they did something wrong, but the report was poorly done'? Accepting as fact that the report was poorly done -- which I disagree with, just for the record -- what difference does it really make if you're not going to argue the Patriots innocence? Did they do this or not? If so, then why does the perceived quality of the report even matter?

 

Perhaps more importantly, Kraft has said twice that he thinks the report was bogus, in so many words. Yet he acted on it to suspend McNally and Jastremski. Why?

 

I also disagree that the NFL is making a statement about the unfair advantage. As a matter of fact, yesterday's statement went out of its way to state that the advantage, significant or not, is secondary to the fact that the rules were deliberately broken. To me, the severity of the punishment is primarily over the fact that the NFL believes Brady lied to begin with so that he could avoid punishment before the Super Bowl, he didn't fully cooperate with the investigation, the organization didn't fully cooperate with the investigation, the organization is a repeat offender (Spygate), and they believe this particular violation has happened multiple times prior to the AFCCG. You may or may not agree with any of that, but from the NFL's perspective, those are the overriding factors here. Not 'you guys really influenced the outcome of games,' but 'you guys showed a flagrant disregard for the rules and for the authority of the NFL, and this isn't the first time.' 

 

That being the case, the punishment makes plenty of sense, IMO. I think four games is harsh, but not overly so. I feel like an example is being made: If you deliberately disregard rules/protocol, especially on the field, and/or refuse to cooperate with our investigation, expect to sit down for four games. The draft picks are easy to justify; if they got docked a first for Spygate, then a first + a fourth is a natural escalation.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

We'll see. But Kraft is going to tear into that report ... league will be raked over the coals. Get your popcorn ready!

 

 

de·lu·sion

 (dĭ-lo͞o′zhən)

n.

1.

a. The act or process of deluding.

b. The state of being deluded.

2.

a. A false belief or opinion: labored under the delusion that success was at hand.

b. Psychiatry A false belief or perception that is a manifestation of a mental illness: delusions of persecution.

[Superman]

No...but it helps make the case that the NFL has never really been as serious about the PSI in the balls as they want to make it seem. If the integrity of the game is the truly the issue, then there is no way that should ever happen. There is a disconnect between what the NFL says and how it acts.

 

Nah. The NFL gets complaints about stuff like this all the time. Once they realized that the claim was justified, they acted on it.

 

They did the same when they saw teams warming the footballs on the sideline (in plain view, I might add; they weren't even trying to hide it, they more likely just didn't realize they were doing something against the rules). 

 

Also, your argument above seems to suggest that stealing and then deliberately tampering with the footballs after the refs approve them doesn't undermine the integrity of the game. Again, you're shifting blame. Either what the Pats did was wrong, or it wasn't. If it was, stop rationalizing.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Why? Because we are raking your arguments over the coals?

When you spend money, time and energy to go to these games, you want them to be fair

When you spend 15 years listening to people drool over how awesome the Patriots are

When you spend years watching your team get beat, not by a better team but by a group of cheaters(it's one thing to lose to a team who played better but not to one who cheats.)

When you spend years listening to Pats fans acting like they walk on water..

When you watch pats fans come onto a Colts forum and troll...

When you have pats fans who try to justify cheating by winning the Superbowl...a game the pats had to cheat to get into...

Then yeah, it gets personal.

 

My favorite post of the last week this sums up my feelings perfectly .

 

         Thank You

[mattceinicram]

What does the $1 million fine go towards? If it's cap room, that makes sense. If it's just a general fine to an organization, that's less then pocket change.

[dynasty13]

Nah. The NFL gets complaints about stuff like this all the time. Once they realized that the claim was justified, they acted on it.

 

They did the same when they saw teams warming the footballs on the sideline (in plain view, I might add; they weren't even trying to hide it, they more likely just didn't realize they were doing something against the rules). 

 

Also, your argument above seems to suggest that stealing and then deliberately tampering with the footballs after the refs approve them doesn't undermine the integrity of the game. Again, you're shifting blame. Either what the Pats did was wrong, or it wasn't. If it was, stop rationalizing.

 

False...what I'm suggesting is that I don't understand how it was somehow decided that pumping in artificial crowd somehow creates less of an unfair advantage than deliberately tampering with footballs. That's what I'm talking about in terms of consistency when dealing with 'the integrity of the game'.

[Superman]

I had to laugh at Kraft's harping on that.  It's also ridiculous to scream ideal gas law when the scientist doing all the experiments said that the ideal gas law can't explain the drop in air pressure to the extent the patriots balls lost air pressure.  That, in order to get the footballs to the pressure halftime measurments, it was likely that air pressure was released after approved by officials.

 

Ideal Gas Law applies more to the Patriots footballs than the Colts footballs, which explains why the Patriots footballs lost more pressure percentage wise than the Colts footballs did. 

 

Except, that's not how science works. Not on this planet.

 

Edit: Also, if it can all be explained by Ideal Gas Law, why are Jastremski and McNally suspended indefinitely?

[csmopar]

My favorite post of the last week this sums up my feelings perfectly .

Thank You

You're welcome

[Superman]

False...what I'm suggesting is that I don't understand how it was somehow decided that pumping in artificial crowd somehow creates less of an unfair advantage than deliberately tampering with footballs. That's what I'm talking about in terms of consistency when dealing with 'the integrity of the game'.

 

:: squints eyes incredulously :: 

 

This is the first time in our back and forth that artificial crowd noise has come up. You were talking about PSI. You said:

 

it helps make the case that the NFL has never really been as serious about the PSI in the balls as they want to make it seem. If the integrity of the game is the truly the issue, then there is no way that should ever happen.

 

I translate that to mean that if the NFL really cared about the integrity of the game, they would have stopped the Patriots from cheating in the first place (which is a flimsy rationalization, by the way). I don't see how that relates to crowd noise.

 

Specific to crowd noise, I don't believe that pumping in artificial crowd noise is anywhere near as egregious as tampering with the footballs that are used the play the game. I'm stunned by the suggestion, to be honest. One is far worse than the other. But even if that's not the case, the Falcons didn't grandstand and lie. They admitted their wrongdoing, cooperated with the investigation, and took their punishment. And they aren't repeat offenders. It really doesn't make sense to compare the two situations, IMO.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

When I look up at those Championship banners having up at Gillette, I wont see any either.

 

You will hear about this for ever thats good enough its in the books written in NFL stone thanks to a cheater & liar . :D

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I just had to post this. I just saw where the Patriots Fans have opened a Go Fund Me Account to help pay the million dollar fine.

 

The Account is set up under Paying the Bill of the Patriots.   They have collected $ 1325.00. This is interesting to say the least.

 

  Yeah Kraft  really needs there money he's at least as broke as hillary .

[dw49]

Honest question for you. Are you more upset with the action itself of under inflating the footballs to gain an advantage and you think the punishment fits that crime...or are you more upset with how the Patriots handled the fallout and you think the punishment fits that behavior?

 

 

Man.. tough question. I thought the 4 game suspension and fine were maybe enough. First and a fourth are a little stiff. but that said here's a couple things you have  to consider.

 

1) Many believe this has gone on since around 2006. No proof of that but Brady and the Pats have a remarkable record as to ball security. No fact that it has been going on since then but well accepted that a deflated ball is easier to secure.

 

2) The 4 game suspension may end up to be 2.That would be no means (IMO) be too harsh.

[OffensivelyPC]

Ideal Gas Law applies more to the Patriots footballs than the Colts footballs, which explains why the Patriots footballs lost more pressure percentage wise than the Colts footballs did. 

 

Except, that's not how science works. Not on this planet.

 

Edit: Also, if it can all be explained by Ideal Gas Law, why are Jastremski and McNally suspended indefinitely?

 

 

(sarcasm) Because the NFL failed in its duty to discover all conceivable cheating and prevent the Patriots from giving in to their willingness to break the rules, I guess    

[dynasty13]

:: squints eyes incredulously :: 

 

This is the first time in our back and forth that artificial crowd noise has come up. You were talking about PSI. You said:

 

 

I translate that to mean that if the NFL really cared about the integrity of the game, they would have stopped the Patriots from cheating in the first place (which is a flimsy rationalization, by the way). I don't see how that relates to crowd noise.

 

Specific to crowd noise, I don't believe that pumping in artificial crowd noise is anywhere near as egregious as tampering with the footballs that are used the play the game. I'm stunned by the suggestion, to be honest. One is far worse than the other. But even if that's not the case, the Falcons didn't grandstand and lie. They admitted their wrongdoing, cooperated with the investigation, and took their punishment. And they aren't repeat offenders. It really doesn't make sense to compare the two situations, IMO.

 

I'm talking about the recent instances of 'the integrity of the game' being intentionally compromised...and that's why I feel this punishment when compared to the others is egregious. Whether its pumping in fake crowd noise, whether it's tampering, whether it's holding illegal practices, whether its using PED's, whether it's heating up balls on the sideline (an offense very similar to what would be gained through deflation)...those are all instances of intentionally compromising the integrity of the game. There's just a lot of hypocrisy coming from the league in all this. They apparently take lying very seriously...except when it is them doing it. I don't like it.

[furi0usbee]

I'm OK with the penalty. If Brady told the truth from the get go, it would have been less. I'm just glad I can move on.

 

But, if the four games hold up... his first game is against you guys. Mark your calendars folks, that game is going to be insane. In looking at recent history and the trend line, and now the added chip on their shoulder that they are going to have, I'd say this game is going to be a very "dramatic" game.

 

2-2 during those 4 games would be a win. Anything better than that incredible, and if they ever went 4-0, effectively no real penalty on the Patriots' record.

 

Pick the over and I'll take the Patriots for the win. See you guys in October!

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I have never once said that the Patriots did nothing wrong. All I have ever said since the beginning was that the report had holes and a lack of proof and thats what we are questioning.

 

And from the beginning Tom Brady lied from the beginning his lawyer would'nt cooperate fully from the beginning the Organization did no cooperate fully  from the beginning neither did the 2 fall guys .

 

So it ends up in the end what it is based on there lack of cooperation .

 

If in the beginning if Tom Brady was truthful the ending would be different & there is no lack of proof on this its clear .

[swifty1812]

I'm talking about the recent instances of 'the integrity of the game' being intentionally compromised...and that's why I feel this punishment when compared to the others is egregious. Whether its pumping in fake crowd noise, whether it's tampering, whether it's holding illegal practices, whether its using PED's, whether it's heating up balls on the sideline (an offense very similar to what would be gained through deflation)...those are all instances of intentionally compromising the integrity of the game. There's just a lot of hypocrisy coming from the league in all this. They apparently take lying very seriously...except when it is them doing it. I don't like it.

 

Again when looking at all of those scenarios you are leaving out the main factor in this penalty, and that is the fact that this is the second time the Patriots have been caught bending/breaking the rules. All of the other teams getting hit are not repeat offenders.

 

If you take out that aspect, then of course it is going to seem harsh, but again as said in the release, that was one of the strong factors in their decision to give them such a harsh penalty.

[csmopar]

Yeah Kraft really needs there money he's at least as broke as hillary .

Yeah...wow just wow. I literally about fell out of my chair laughing after hearing about that fund me thing

[pgt_rob]

Your right .. I'm wrong. Civil.. not criminal

No worries man! I'm just giving everyone a hard time.

[furi0usbee]

Not to mention, because this has been filed, Brady and the Pats will have an asterisk on last season's SB.

 

That's only in your mind, not on paper. The SB was the most fair and regulated game probably in the history of the NFL. Every detail was taken in to account. So I can only imagine you are saying that because they beat the Colts with 2 quarters of light balls. But we both know the second half was played with proper balls and we know how that ended.

 

If it were up to the non-Patriots fans, I'm sure every win would have asterisks next to it, and even some losses.

 

They cheated, got caught, will pay the price. But you can't delude yourself and think that the "cheating" actually led to an outcome that would have been different had the balls been 12.5 PSI for all 4 quarters. That's la-la land.

 

I'm mad the most because Brady lied to me and that they didn't need to do this foolish thing. Patriots have the Colts number and nothing was going to allow a Colts win, except maybe cheating on the Colts part. It was just dumb and stupid.

 

And per the Wells report, 3 of the Colts 4 balls tested at half-time by one of the officials actually had the Colts balls under 12.5 PSI... very interesting... it's in the report, forget which page.

[ColtRider]

Honest question for you. Are you more upset with the action itself of under inflating the footballs to gain an advantage and you think the punishment fits that crime...or are you more upset with how the Patriots handled the fallout and you think the punishment fits that behavior?

Both, IMO! Two wrongs don't make a right. The combination fits the entire debacle.

[BullsColtsFan1]

It's actually a bad analogy. I acknowledge when my child does something wrong, and I'm the one responsible for administering the discipline/punishment. I don't pretend that the wrong never happened, or deflect blame onto others, or act like someone is out to get her. 

Well I dont agree with the blaming others part at all or the nothing ever happened part.  I am just saying, if my kid did something wrong, I am still going to be upset with them and discipline them but I am still going to love them.  If one of my favorite teams(Bulls or Colts) got caught cheating I would admit they were wrong, be upset but it wouldn't change my outlook from a fan standpoint.  Mainly considering the fact I've been a Colts fan for 15 years and a Bulls fan for 25. I wouldnt hate them or change teams.

[Hoosier]

de·lu·sion

 (dĭ-lo͞o′zhən)

n.

1.

a. The act or process of deluding.

b. The state of being deluded.

2.

a. A false belief or opinion: labored under the delusion that success was at hand.

b. Psychiatry A false belief or perception that is a manifestation of a mental illness: delusions of persecution.

 

I said it before, but I honestly don't think it's delusion.  It's gotten to the point of straight-up trolling.

[csmopar]

That's only in your mind, not on paper. The SB was the most fair and regulated game probably in the history of the NFL. Every detail was taken in to account. So I can only imagine you are saying that because they beat the Colts with 2 quarters of light balls. But we both know the second half was played with proper balls and we know how that ended.

If it were up to the non-Patriots fans, I'm sure every win would have asterisks next to it, and even some losses.

They cheated, got caught, will pay the price. But you can't delude yourself and think that the "cheating" actually led to an outcome that would have been different had the balls been 12.5 PSI for all 4 quarters. That's la-la land.

I'm mad the most because Brady lied to me and that they didn't need to do this foolish thing. Patriots have the Colts number and nothing was going to allow a Colts win, except maybe cheating on the Colts part. It was just dumb and stupid.

And per the Wells report, 3 of the Colts 4 balls tested at half-time by one of the officials actually had the Colts balls under 12.5 PSI... very interesting... it's in the report, forget which page.

No one is saying the Colts would have won if the Pats had cheated. I think it still would have been a slaughter.

However, having read the report, it appears you are just taking a title of an article and posting it as fact in terms of the Colts balls. If you read the report as i have, you'll find they used multiple gauges and on only one gauge did the Colts balls read under...however on every single gauge the pats balls were under... and the Colts balls were barely under... Pats balls were way under

[Corndog]

I'm talking about the recent instances of 'the integrity of the game' being intentionally compromised...and that's why I feel this punishment when compared to the others is egregious. Whether its pumping in fake crowd noise, whether it's tampering, whether it's holding illegal practices, whether its using PED's, whether it's heating up balls on the sideline (an offense very similar to what would be gained through deflation)...those are all instances of intentionally compromising the integrity of the game. There's just a lot of hypocrisy coming from the league in all this. They apparently take lying very seriously...except when it is them doing it. I don't like it.

Well PED's are a four game suspension.  Fake crowd noise.... oh I see what you did there and the Colts fully co-operated and nothing was found.  Also, this wasn't just lying, there was bribery and other illegal actions, such as taking the balls and not returning them to the officials.  It was bribery, conspiracy and breaking an NFL rule.  Not to mention the lack of co-operation. Had Brady just been co-operative and told the truth, it would have been a much lighter penalty.  Also, the Patriots can appeal and probably get a lighter sentence.  Goodell did the right thing by going heavy on the punishment, because an appeal could at the very least maybe get them a draft pick and some money back.  The one chance the Patriots have is saying that only those three were aware of the situation and the organization shouldn't be punished.  Fact is, Goodell had to go heavy on the punishment because of the other owners.  He had to prove he wasn't going to let his friend go off easy again, like Spy Gate. The owners are Goodell's bosses and choosing one over the other 31 would be foolish. 

[Superman]

I'm talking about the recent instances of 'the integrity of the game' being intentionally compromised...and that's why I feel this punishment when compared to the others is egregious. Whether its pumping in fake crowd noise, whether it's tampering, whether it's holding illegal practices, whether its using PED's, whether it's heating up balls on the sideline (an offense very similar to what would be gained through deflation)...those are all instances of intentionally compromising the integrity of the game. There's just a lot of hypocrisy coming from the league in all this. They apparently take lying very seriously...except when it is them doing it. I don't like it.

 

Let's pretend this isn't a massive deflection.

 

I'm striking the heating the balls up on the sideline because I don't think they were trying to do anything but heat the balls up. And the effect would be the opposite of removing air; it would actually increase the pressure. Either way, I don't think they were intentionally trying to compromise the integrity of the game.

 

The other issues, yes, intentionally compromising the integrity of the game. Still, to varying degrees. There's a big difference between artificial crowd noise and tampering with game equipment. And in all these instances, including illegal practices, the league took action. Just because this stuff has happened doesn't mean the NFL doesn't care. They've hit everyone who committed these penalties. 

[ColtRider]

I just had to post this. I just saw where the Patriots Fans have opened a Go Fund Me Account to help pay the million dollar fine.

The Account is set up under Paying the Bill of the Patriots. They have collected $ 1325.00. This is interesting to say the least.

This is just amazingly laughable. Blind sheep giving their hard earned (or not) incomes to a billionaire. Mind-boggling.

[furi0usbee]

No one is saying the Colts would have won if the Pats had cheated. I think it still would have been a slaughter.

However, having read the report, it appears you are just taking a title of an article and posting it as fact in terms of the Colts balls. If you read the report as i have, you'll find they used multiple gauges and on only one gauge did the Colts balls read under...however on every single gauge the pats balls were under... and the Colts balls were barely under... Pats balls were way under

 

I don't think the Colts had any "ball issues," I'm just saying that the scientific portion of the report leaves much to be desired. No question the Patriots deflated their balls. The fact that this feeble sting operation failed so miserably just reflects poorly upon the NFL. If I were a Colts fan, I'd be mad the NFL let Patriots play half the game with out of spec balls.

 

Patriots cheated. NFL/refs using multiple gauges, etc. the Three Stooges could have handled that better.

 

To me the best scenario would be, after the NFL was tipped off, to call Kraft and say we are hearing stuff, and we are just going to say enough, and whatever you are doing, it better stop here. We hear about this again, there will be repercussions. This was not the type of thing you go into sting mode for. But that's water under the bridge. If Patriots aren't stupid, this doesn't happen.

[MB-ColtsFan]

lol. You realize that today, right now, in the middle of an appeal, Manning would trade places with Brady in a heartbeat? So would Marino, Kelly, Tarkenton, etc ...

I've stayed out of it up till now, but this statement is just absolutely...filled with an ego that defies logic.

 

You're saying that any of those players (who are VERY highly respected and i dare say almost revered) would rather trade their historic careers for someone accused of cheating???

Riiiiiiiggggghhhhht..... 

[crazycolt1]

The point is that Patriots fans have been saying that the report was written in a way that left a lot of questions...yet when we had the audacity to question the lack of proof, we were lambasted for it. Now you are saying that there is nothing wrong with questioning when there is a lack of proof of something...so I said that's all we were trying to say before. It doesn't matter what the topic is or what is trying to be proved...but when there is a lack of proof of something it is only natural to question.

All these questions and doubts would have been clear had Brady cooperated with the NFL. He chose to not cooperate and opened the door to all of this. He had the opportunity to clear all of this up if there was nothing to hide. Brady himself is why the NFL came to their conclusions. Had he fessed up in wrong doing in the first place he would have gotten a token fine and moved on. If he has nothing to hide then why not cooperate with the investigation? It is that simple.

[GoColts8818]

So now we are deflecting this back to the crowd noise? Cool that's a perfect example of how the system works the pats informed the league they felt the Colts were doing that. Just as the Colts did with deflate gate and just like deflate gate the league looked into it. Now here is where it gets different. The Colts fully cooperated and the league didn't find anything that suggested the Colts were doing it.

With the Pats they didn't fully cooperate and the league did find evidence that support that patriots were deflating football more likely than not on orders from the teams QB. Add in their past history with spygate and that's why they were punished the way they were.

There is a big difference in the Pats saying we think the Colts did this and the Colts being cleared and the Pats being proven to have been deflating footballs.

One is just an accusation which, despite what some Pats fans want, is not the samething as having done what were you were accused of like the Pats. If people can't tell the difference there is no point continuing the conversation. If they can they will quickly realize they are not the samething rendering the crowd noise point moot in regards to this topic.

[crazycolt1]

I'm talking about the recent instances of 'the integrity of the game' being intentionally compromised...and that's why I feel this punishment when compared to the others is egregious. Whether its pumping in fake crowd noise, whether it's tampering, whether it's holding illegal practices, whether its using PED's, whether it's heating up balls on the sideline (an offense very similar to what would be gained through deflation)...those are all instances of intentionally compromising the integrity of the game. There's just a lot of hypocrisy coming from the league in all this. They apparently take lying very seriously...except when it is them doing it. I don't like it.

Once again you deflect to what other teams and or players have done in the past. This is not the past and there was no precedent set for this infraction. Comparing one wrong doing with another is just making up excuses for you yourself to justify being mad about it. It is plain and simple. If Brady did do something wrong he should have stood up like a man and took the repercussions. Chances are it would have been a very reasonable fine. But he, himself made the choice not to cooperate with the investigation. If he had nothing to hide then why not prove it? He made himself look arrogant when he was originally questioned about the deflation of footballs. He said he didn't understand why it was a big deal because this isn't Isis and no one got killed. IMO that was not too smart. He then refused to defend himself and now all this is going down. No one to blame but himself.

[CLOWN]

This is how things look to be shaping up. Brady and his lawyers are going to file a case against the NFL. They won't get things done prior to the start of the season and Brady very well might be on the field against the Steelers as the suspension will be most likely be put on hold as the case trudges though the legal system. I'm thinking Brady's legal team is pretty confident in their case to even bother and that's why we never heard boo from Brady. He's got aces in his pocket so to speak. This is going to get uglier for Roger and his NFL. This has been handled very, very poorly.

Edited May 12, 2015 by 21isSuperman

[CLOWN]

All these questions and doubts would have been clear had Brady cooperated with the NFL. He chose to not cooperate and opened the door to all of this. He had the opportunity to clear all of this up if there was nothing to hide. Brady himself is why the NFL came to their conclusions. Had he fessed up in wrong doing in the first place he would have gotten a token fine and moved on. If he has nothing to hide then why not cooperate with the investigation? It is that simple.

 

 

It looks like he'll be clearing it up in court.

[OffensivelyPC]

Just for fun, I thought I'd post here instead of starting a new thread since the conversation will eventually lead back to what's being discussed here.

 

But the investigation prompted Eli to see if there was any advantage to be gained by deflating footballs.  Here's what he said: http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/168858/deflategate-prompted-eli-manning-to-experiment-with-deflated-footballs

 

Just food for thought.  

[jvan1973]

If he feels good about his phone and that there is nothing there than I think he goes full bore. The report had nothing on him as pertaining to the AFCCG. Nothing. As we said before, difficult to prove tampering. Even more difficult to prove someone ordered it.

not hard to prove non compliance in the investigation

[dynasty13]

So now we are deflecting this back to the crowd noise? Cool that's a perfect example of how the system works the pats informed the league they felt the Colts were doing that. Just as the Colts did with deflate gate and just like deflate gate the league looked into it. Now here is where it gets different. The Colts fully cooperated and the league didn't find anything that suggested the Colts were doing it.

With the Pats they didn't fully cooperate and the league did find evidence that support that patriots were deflating football more likely than not on orders from the teams QB. Add in their past history with spygate and that's why they were punished the way they were.

There is a big difference in the Pats saying we think the Colts did this and the Colts being cleared and the Pats being proven to have been deflating footballs.

One is just an accusation which, despite what some Pats fans want, is not the samething as having done what were you were accused of like the Pats. If people can't tell the difference there is no point continuing the conversation. If they can they will quickly realize they are not the samething rendering the crowd noise point moot in regards to this topic.

 

I don't understand...who said anything about the Colts and crowd noise?