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Brady suspended four games, Pats fined and docked two draft picks (Mega Merge)


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That we are horrible people. Just the worst people ever.

 

You have kids Shane? You ever loved something unconditionally before? We are fans of this team, and much like when your kid does something stupid and you are disappointed in them, you don't stop loving them.

I like the Colts. I am invested in the Colts emotionally when they play a game. I proudly wear their gear and have spent way too much of my life discussing them. With that said in no universe would I compare my feelings for the Colts, a group of people I don't know personally, to the love I have for the dearest people in my life. When the Colts do something stupid and it's clearly wrong it's easy to stand back and go hey that was wrong they shouldn't have done that. While I'll pull for the origination I don't have the same kind of unconditional love for them or their players that I do for the most important people in my life. I understand not wanting to see your team beat on but to compare it to the love of ones children is a bit out there for me personally. I know you'll disagree so let's just do everyone a favor and leave this here and agree to disagree on this one.
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I like the Colts. I am invested in the Colts emotionally when they play a game. I proudly wear their gear and have spent way too much of my life discussing them. With that said in no universe would I compare my feelings for the Colts, a group of people I don't know personally, to the love I have for the dearest people in my life. When the Colts do something stupid and it's clearly wrong it's easy to stand back and go hey that was wrong they shouldn't have done that. While I'll pull for the origination I don't have the same kind of unconditional love for them or their players that I do for the most important people in my life. I understand not wanting to see your team beat on but to compare it to the love of ones children is a bit out there for me personally. I know you'll disagree so let's just do everyone a favor and leave this here and agree to disagree on this one.

 

I'm not comparing the love of your family to the love of a football team...I'm simply making the case about unconditional love and how it IS possible to support someone or something even if you dont agree with everything they do.

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Go for it. But you're gonna run out of ink real fast if you try to add add them to every record, banner, website, and piece of history that will never have them...no matter how much you want it.

yeah...kind of sad that we need that much ink for all the banners fraudulently obtained. ....

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That's all well and good but it doesn't change the fact that he murdered someone while a member of the team. Pats fans try to use Ray Lewis, and Ray Rice against the Ravens so it's fair game. They also will bring up D'Qell Jackson and Eric Walden when talking about how the Colts are classy. They tried to give the Colts fans crap because Irsay struggles with addiction. I will use it all day everyday. They want to fight dirty, I'm all for that.

 

Well those things are wrong as well.  But I havn't seen it being used.  

 

And honestly recent events suggest to me that Walden was in some part railroaded by the justice system that see's the guy as the abuser no matter what actually occured.

 

Someone who travels to someone else's house to stab them and their girlfriend does not have the makeup of an innocent victim.

 

That violence was either mutual or self defense.  Not Walden beating her up just cause he can.

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The point is that Patriots fans have been saying that the report was written in a way that left a lot of questions...yet when we had the audacity to question the lack of proof, we were lambasted for it. Now you are saying that there is nothing wrong with questioning when there is a lack of proof of something...so I said that's all we were trying to say before. It doesn't matter what the topic is or what is trying to be proved...but when there is a lack of proof of something it is only natural to question.

Brady is a cheater. What more do you need to know? The evidence suggest the cheating has been going on for a long time, and it appears the NFL gave you a pass on it. Feel very lucky. 

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Brady is a cheater. What more do you need to know? The evidence suggest the cheating has been going on for a long time, and it appears the NFL gave you a pass on it. Feel very lucky. 

 

Feel lucky? The punishment is absurd. 

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I'm not comparing the love of your family to the love of a football team...I'm simply making the case about unconditional love and how it IS possible to support someone or something even if you dont agree with everything they do.

 

If my child does something wrong then I let him know that he did something wrong. How else is he suppose to grow? Families who coddle their children and always back them when they are wrong, wind up with children who think they can break rules and get away with it. Sounds familiar right? As a patriots fan you should be voicing your opinion about how wrong brady is. I know if it were Peyton or Andrew then I would be letting them know how wrong they are, and I would voice my opinion about it loud and clear on this open forum. It's interesting that other fans feel the need to come to another teams board and defend their player, even after he is proven with overwhelming evidence to be wrong. 

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I just had to post this. I just saw where the Patriots Fans have opened a Go Fund Me Account to help pay the million dollar fine.

 

The Account is set up under Paying the Bill of the Patriots.   They have collected $ 1325.00. This is interesting to say the least.

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You can chose to not acknowledge the taint, but you can't take back all the proof.

 

for me there is no more or less taint on what the pats did in the AFCCG than the taint on that Minn/Car game or Atlanta's last two seasons of home games.  You can choose to have a bias opinion or chose to be neutral, it does not matter to me.

 

Or for that matter the taint associated with the Jets when they played us when we had to deal with balls 2.5 psig over the limit.

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Feel lucky? The punishment is absurd. 

 

The punishment is very light. It's absurd the NFL did not investigate the issue further, and see how long the cheating had been going on.

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Good analogy.  I totally see where you are coming from.  If it were me and the Colts did it, I would be ashamed of them for doing it and I would admit it was wrong(which most Pats fans in this case will not) but I would eventually get over it and they would still be my team.

 

It's actually a bad analogy. I acknowledge when my child does something wrong, and I'm the one responsible for administering the discipline/punishment. I don't pretend that the wrong never happened, or deflect blame onto others, or act like someone is out to get her. 

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for me there is no more or less taint on what the pats did in the AFCCG than the taint on that Minn/Car game or Atlanta's last two seasons of home games.  You can choose to have a bias opinion or chose to be neutral, it does not matter to me.

 

Or for that matter the taint associated with the Jets when they played us when we had to deal with balls 2.5 psig over the limit.

Believe me, I don't think the Patriots are the only team that has ever or will ever cheat.

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Like many have stated already.....let them take it to court....then they'll have to subpeona all the stuff that the Pats and Brady were trying to hide.

 

That's why I've stated that for them to go to court , Brady really needs to be innocent.

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I just thought the bold was interesting. It appears that line of thinking only applies when it fits one narrative, but it's ridiculous to question of it's the other side of the argument.

 

It's ridiculous to scream "IDEAL GAS LAW! IDEAL GAS LAW!" when your employee is on video sneaking the footballs into the bathroom without authorization from the refs. It's ridiculous to pretend that you believe no one in your organization did anything wrong and undermine the integrity of the investigation, but act upon the results of the investigation yourself by suspending the two employees that were most directly implicated. 

 

Everyone did something wrong, except the Patriots. The Colts are wrong for bringing it up; the NFL is wrong for not warning the Pats; the refs are wrong for not switching the footballs; the media is wrong for reporting the investigation; Wells is wrong for using the words "more probable than not"; Goodell/Vincent are wrong for punishing the Patriots...

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Probable cause. That's all you need for a jury to convict. Brady has no chance if he and Kraft appeal. When you wake up the next morning and see snow on the ground, well probable cause says that it snowed last night even though you did not physically see it snow.

 

 

For legal it's beyond a reasonable doubt. For the NFL it's along the lines of what you mention here.

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lol. Please. IF athletes really cared about their good name and not winning, none of them would do PEDs or break rules in any shape or form. As I have said repeatedly here, all of the great dynasties of football have blemishes but the Pats are probably the most benign in camera location and ball pressure ...

Alright, you finally hooked me. I cannot stand by and see "Camera Location" & "Ball Pressure" tags go on any longer without telling it like it really is ...

Camera Location = We know every play that's coming next!

Ball Pressure = Brady throws illegal footballs & fumble ratio goes waaaay down

Start telling it like it is and quit mincing words to suit your agenda!

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for me there is no more or less taint on what the pats did in the AFCCG than the taint on that Minn/Car game or Atlanta's last two seasons of home games.  You can choose to have a bias opinion or chose to be neutral, it does not matter to me.

 

Or for that matter the taint associated with the Jets when they played us when we had to deal with balls 2.5 psig over the limit.

 

Translation: If you disagree with me, you're biased.

 

And how on earth is it the Jets fault that the refs may have over-inflated the footballs? Is a Jets employee on video sneaking footballs into a bathroom?

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For legal it's beyond a reasonable doubt. For the NFL it's along the lines of what you mention here.

 

Civil is legal. You don't need "beyond a reasonable doubt." The proof threshold is similar to Wells' "more probable than not." 

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don't watch those shows but yes I agree.

What's even more comical is that they think the pats will win in civil court.

I took pre law courses when trying to decide if I wanted to go to law school or not.

Let me explain this, or try to

In a criminal case, the law states that to convict, there has to be reason beyond a reasonable doubt that the person is guilty, that can be cicumstancial or physical.

In a civil case, you just have to have a valid point that can raise enough suspicion that something took place. Much easier to prove guilt in a civil case. See Ron Goldman suit on OJ Simpson...not enough evidence to convict criminally but the courts on the civil side said he was responsible for the deaths... leaning on circumstantial evidence is prime in civil court.

If this goes to civil court, there is no way the Pats win in civil court as this report is more than damaging enough plus the prior history.

As a trained investigator, this report is written solely to be able to be vetted in court and hold up. A smart move by Wells

 

 

Agree with everything you have . One might argue about the "not enough evidence in the OJ case" but your pout is made.

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Civil is legal. You don't need "beyond a reasonable doubt." The proof threshold is similar to Wells' "more probable than not." 

 

yep.. forgot it would be a civil case

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It's ridiculous to scream "IDEAL GAS LAW! IDEAL GAS LAW!" when your employee is on video sneaking the footballs into the bathroom without authorization from the refs. It's ridiculous to pretend that you believe no one in your organization did anything wrong and undermine the integrity of the investigation, but act upon the results of the investigation yourself by suspending the two employees that were most directly implicated. 

 

Everyone did something wrong, except the Patriots. The Colts are wrong for bringing it up; the NFL is wrong for not warning the Pats; the refs are wrong for not switching the footballs; the media is wrong for reporting the investigation; Wells is wrong for using the words "more probable than not"; Goodell/Vincent are wrong for punishing the Patriots...

 

 

I have never once said that the Patriots did nothing wrong. All I have ever said since the beginning was that the report had holes and a lack of proof and thats what we are questioning. I think the punishment is beyond rediculous and I think it's nonsense that the NFL is trying to make the claim (through the severity of punishment) that this 'unfair advantage' was any bigger than any of the recent cases involving intentional manipulation of what is considered natural. There is no consistency in how they handle these cases and that's wrong.

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Translation: If you disagree with me, you're biased.

 

And how on earth is it the Jets fault that the refs may have over-inflated the footballs? Is a Jets employee on video sneaking footballs into a bathroom?

 

No...but it helps make the case that the NFL has never really been as serious about the PSI in the balls as they want to make it seem. If the integrity of the game is the truly the issue, then there is no way that should ever happen. There is a disconnect between what the NFL says and how it acts.

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Kraft's statement. Pats are going to fight this. I love it! Ugly times are ahead for Mr. Goodell.

 

“Despite our conviction that there was no tampering with footballs, it was our intention to accept any discipline levied by the league. Today’s punishment, however, far exceeded any reasonable expectation. It was based completely on circumstantial rather than hard or conclusive evidence,” the statement reads.

“We are humbled by the support the New England Patriots have received from our fans throughout the world. We recognize our fans’ concerns regarding the NFL’s penalties and share in their disappointment in how this one-sided investigation was handled, as well as the dismissal of the scientific evidence supported by the Ideal Gas Law in the final report.”

“Tom Brady has our unconditional support. Our belief in him has not wavered.”

 

so you admit that Brady was involved but love that they're going to fight it.  That says a lot.

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I have never once said that the Patriots did nothing wrong. All I have ever said since the beginning was that the report had holes and a lack of proof and thats what we are questioning. I think the punishment is beyond rediculous and I think it's nonsense that the NFL is trying to make the claim (through the severity of punishment) that this 'unfair advantage' was any bigger than any of the recent cases involving intentional manipulation of what is considered natural. There is no consistency in how they handle these cases and that's wrong.

 

 

It's not r"i"diculous at all imo.

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csmopar, on 12 May 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:snapback.png

Why? Because we are raking your arguments over the coals?
When you spend money, time and energy to go to these games, you want them to be fair
When you spend 15 years listening to people drool over how awesome the Patriots are
When you spend years watching your team get beat, not by a better team but by a group of cheaters(it's one thing to lose to a team who played better but not to one who cheats.)
When you spend years listening to Pats fans acting like they walk on water..
When you watch pats fans come onto a Colts forum and troll...
When you have pats fans who try to justify cheating by winning the Superbowl...a game the pats had to cheat to get into...
Then yeah, it gets personal.

ive said before while I don't like the Pats either and I know exactly what you are saying with the bulk of these things this has never been personal for me. I refuse to let a team I dislike that plays a game effect my personal life. Sure I enjoy watch the Pats lose and like it even more if it's at the hands of the Colts but if they do win it doesn't effect me. I don't know maybe it's just me but I dint think this is personal at all because my direct life and what I consider to be important in life was not impacted by this. The pats cheated, I still woke up the next day healthy with my family doing well and I still had my job, car, and house.

 

I just want to caution people on all sides.  Yes, there are inflamed nerves and tensions right now.  There are facts, such as cheating, obstruction, etc... involved.  Talk and use of these words when directed to the stories and potential outcomes etc..  are healthy items to bring out in public debate.  I caution though, use of some terms (like: Cheating) directed more on a 'personal' level (which I've seen mentioned here and there) at this particular time is bordering on inciting behavior and such posts will be scrutinized for intent.  Please refrain from using such sensitive (at this time) words or wording as a tactic solely  to provoke or ignite the ire the another poster.   Thanks for your cooperation until the storm passes.

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And in the future when I look at the Superbowl results and records, I wont see any there either.

That's because you are a fan of a team that don't know the meaning of integrity or sportsmanship. You can choose to overlook that but the rest of the none Patriots fans refuse to overlook the facts.

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Translation: If you disagree with me, you're biased.

 

And how on earth is it the Jets fault that the refs may have over-inflated the footballs? Is a Jets employee on video sneaking footballs into a bathroom?

 

 

LOL.. I'd love to see the response to the above..... but it's not going to happen. 

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It's ridiculous to scream "IDEAL GAS LAW! IDEAL GAS LAW!" when your employee is on video sneaking the footballs into the bathroom without authorization from the refs. It's ridiculous to pretend that you believe no one in your organization did anything wrong and undermine the integrity of the investigation, but act upon the results of the investigation yourself by suspending the two employees that were most directly implicated. 

 

Everyone did something wrong, except the Patriots. The Colts are wrong for bringing it up; the NFL is wrong for not warning the Pats; the refs are wrong for not switching the footballs; the media is wrong for reporting the investigation; Wells is wrong for using the words "more probable than not"; Goodell/Vincent are wrong for punishing the Patriots...

I had to laugh at Kraft's harping on that.  It's also ridiculous to scream ideal gas law when the scientist doing all the experiments said that the ideal gas law can't explain the drop in air pressure to the extent the patriots balls lost air pressure.  That, in order to get the footballs to the pressure halftime measurments, it was likely that air pressure was released after approved by officials.

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