Brady suspended four games, Pats fined and docked two draft picks (Mega Merge)

[csmopar]

FYI, Kraft can appeal but that appeal goes to the Commish. If penalties stand than he can go to court which Peter King feels he will do or look to get Goodell removed, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/12/patriots-could-pursue-an-appeal-of-their-own/

He'd have to get the other 31 owners on board...not gonna happen...and I hope he does take it to court. Then they'll be legally required to turn over all their records, and a more thorough, longer investigation will result and then it's more likely the extent of how long they've cheated comes out.

[Restored]

FYI, Kraft can appeal but that appeal goes to the Commish. If penalties stand than he can go to court which Peter King feels he will do or look to get Goodell removed, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/12/patriots-could-pursue-an-appeal-of-their-own/

 

The Patriots do NOT want this to go to court. You don't think Goodell will bring all of his ammunition to the table? Kraft should do what he originally said he would do and accept the punishment instead of backpedaling and creating the sense of guilt that's permeating everywhere.

[Dustin]

The commissioner is not being  removed because the Patriots are sad they got caught cheating for the umpteenth time. 

[Hoosier]

He'd have to get the other 31 owners on board...not gonna happen...and I hope he does take it to court. Then they'll be legally required to turn over all their records, and a more thorough, longer investigation will result and then it's more likely the extent of how long they've cheated comes out.

This is exactly why neither Brady nor the Patriots are ever going to take this into the court system in any form.

[amfootball]

The commissioner is not being  removed because the Patriots are sad they got caught cheating for the umpteenth time. 

You are not thinking this through. This has been the worst year ever for the NFL in terms of how it has handled disciplinary actions. The owners have not been happy with Goodell all year long. Now he has Kraft, his biggest supporter coming after him. We will see where this goes but this could be the proverbial straw ...

[dynasty13]

Too bad yours can't win without cheating...

 

When are you guys hanging your 2014 AFC Finalist banner?

 

Maybe they'll wait until week 6???

[Hoosier]

When are you guys hanging your 2014 AFC Finalist banner?

 

Maybe they'll wait until week 6???

'Winning makes cheating OK.'

[The Old Crow]

Pretty sure Pats fans where eager to dump their Hernandez jersey's after he was charged. With Hernandez not very many people where upset about his release.

The jersey dumping was pandering and damage control. Kraft and Belichick knew this guys background and took a horrible risk on him. That is why he went in the second round with the 42nd pick.

[csmopar]

This is exactly why neither Brady nor the Patriots are ever going to take this into the court system in any form.

I agree and if they did, they lose and their punishment could be harsher....if what the attorney interviewed last week is right about federal racketeering charges if they can prove brady paid to cover up a league rule.

I'm no attorney and I have no idea if there is such laws but if there is and it goes into the courts, it could happen.

[amfootball]

When are you guys hanging your 2014 AFC Finalist banner?

 

Maybe they'll wait until week 6???

[csmopar]

When are you guys hanging your 2014 AFC Finalist banner?

Maybe they'll wait until week 6???

That's the best zinger you have? Really? You pats fans are truly unique...I'll give you that. Must be the crappy public schools in Boston...

[pgt_rob]

You are not thinking this through. This has been the worst year ever for the NFL in terms of how it has handled disciplinary actions. The owners have not been happy with Goodell all year long. Now he has Kraft, his biggest supporter coming after him. We will see where this goes but this could be the proverbial straw ...

 

Good conspiracy.

[Dustin]

https://twitter.com/willblackmon/status/598120569649778689

[Archangel]

Agreed. But it sounds like you guys are trying to make a case like 'oh there go the Patriots again, defending murderers and saying it's all good!'

 

No way. His actions in no way reflect the uniform he happened to be wearing on Sunday.

 

Agreed. But it sounds like you guys are trying to make a case like 'oh there go the Patriots again, defending murderers and saying it's all good!'

 

No way. His actions in no way reflect the uniform he happened to be wearing on Sunday.

 

Possibly you are right no one will ever know but was he not tied to gang activities during his time with the organization IMO not all the patriots fans backed this guy up after being charged with this crimes and then again their are some patriots still believe he is innocent anyway enough said on this man

[BullsColtsFan1]

I was hoping for four games.  I hope he doesn't win his appeal.  Hopefully the Pats go 1-3 or 0-4 to start going into the Colts game and then the Colts beat them and finally put them away

[dynasty13]

The jersey dumping was pandering and damage control. Kraft and Belichick knew this guys background and took a horrible risk on him. That is why he went in the second round with the 42nd pick.

 

Yeah, they took a risk and he was a great player for a few years here.

 

But it almost sounds like some of you are trying to make the case that 'because he was a Patriot', he murdered someone and we're ok with that.

 

That's nonsense and you all know it. 

[OffensivelyPC]

Except John Harbaugh came out and said that the Pats footballs were fine. And the Wells report was not able to prove any history of it. All they did was prove Brady knew the rules better than the refs about air pressure when the ref before the Jets game over inflated to 16 psi. You realize the main reason why the investigation took so long was because Wells was trying to prove a history of it? He was not able to and could not prove the AFCCG either, just a probably.

 

 

Also because the team and personnel didn't fully cooperate

 

 

The text messages give very strong evidence of a history of it.  I mean the guy who snuck into the bathroom with the balls was nicknamed the deflator BEFORE the AFC championship game.

 

It's certainly a stretch to say there is no proof it happened before the AFC Championship game.  Not only do the text messages seem to indicate that it did but also logic.  There is no logical reason that the Patriots would suddenly start cheating against the Colts.  

What jvan and Valpo said.  And the report made it clear that it couldn't discover the history of underinflated balls because of the lack of cooperation.  Which is whatever.  The point is, the Patriots absolutely engaged in misconduct.  Because of the lack of cooperation and no proof to prove how far back the misconduct went without proof one way or the other, people aren't wrong for asking the question.  It raises doubt.  So you can say the SB solidified his legacy, that's fine.  Not everyone has to follow suit.  People who question the legitimacy of that superbowl - more particularly, the fact they were even there, is up for debate.  That's my only point.

[dynasty13]

That's the best zinger you have? Really? You pats fans are truly unique...I'll give you that. Must be the crappy public schools in Boston...

 

Why get personal? My comment was playful banter, no more, no less. As rediculous as some of you think we are for having the audacity to question this whole situation, many of you are really taking it to the next level. 

[Valpo2004]

FYI, Kraft can appeal but that appeal goes to the Commish. If penalties stand than he can go to court which Peter King feels he will do or look to get Goodell removed, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/12/patriots-could-pursue-an-appeal-of-their-own/

 

It says litigation in court is unlikely.  I'm in agreement with that.  He can try and change the top leadership but this will be looked down on by other owners who will say he's just mad that he got punished.

 

Litigation is really unlikely.  NFL has the money for lawyers too and the way the relationship is laid out the NFL has a lot of leeway in how it decides to punish it's players and teams.  I don't think it will scare the NFL because they will know that bowing out like that would just encourage more teams to threaten lawsuits when they are punished.  It would be very hard for him to win in court.

 

His only chance in court would be to prove that they are treating him unfairly.  But the problem with that is that these situations have very little precedent to go by.  If another team had been caught doing the same thing and only lost a #2 draft pick he might have a case.  But no team's been caught doing this stuff before, so it basically allows the NFL to do what it likes so long as it responds similarly to another situation should it come up.

 

Also the NFL can always bring up spygate as an ace in the hole.  Saying that the Pats where singled out for harsher punishment because of repeat offender status.  Same owner, same front office, same coach even though the report couldn't connect them to the deflation there is precedent thanks to bountygate that people can be punished for lack of control/supervision.  

 

I could see Brady getting his suspension reduced but I think the punishments on the team will stand.  Spygate and the precedent set up by bounty gate give the NFL plenty of room to be very harsh in their punishment.   

[Archangel]

I was hoping for four games.  I hope he doesn't win his appeal.  Hopefully the Pats go 1-3 or 0-4 to start going into the Colts game and then the Colts beat them and finally put them away

 

I was hoping for more this man lied in order to play in the SB which sends the wrong message to the young ones in this country

[dynasty13]

What jvan and Valpo said.  And the report made it clear that it couldn't discover the history of underinflated balls because of the lack of cooperation.  Which is whatever.  The point is, the Patriots absolutely engaged in misconduct.  Because of the lack of cooperation and no proof to prove how far back the misconduct went without proof one way or the other, people aren't wrong for asking the question.  It raises doubt.  So you can say the SB solidified his legacy, that's fine.  Not everyone has to follow suit.  People who question the legitimacy of that superbowl - more particularly, the fact they were even there, is up for debate.  That's my only point.

 

I just thought the bold was interesting. It appears that line of thinking only applies when it fits one narrative, but it's ridiculous to question of it's the other side of the argument.

[dw49]

Huh? This is his statement:

 

Despite our conviction that there was no tampering with footballs, it was our intention to accept any discipline levied by the league. Today’s punishment, however, far exceeded any reasonable expectation. It was based completely on circumstantial rather than hard or conclusive evidence,”

 

I don't know how you can read that and not take that as he will fight it. We will see but there is talk all over our media that Kraft is gearing up for a fight ...

 

Our beat guy Mike Reiss thinks they are clearly fighting words, http://espn.go.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4781402/robert-kraft-decides-hes-not-done-fighting-on-behalf-of-patriots

 

Am.. don't make me go back and find your post saying they will fight this is court and as a result bring Goodall down in the process. What you infer and even state is a huge legal fight in the courts. 

 

That said .. now read my post 3 times and then comment. I'm going to give you a hint . What I'm saying is there will be no monster legal fight. The Pats and their crooked owner will go trough the normal appeal process is what I'm saying. No monster fight you are hoping for. No judge or jury exonerating Tom Brady and the Pats. No Goodall stepping down as he was thrashed in court. Heck , it's even possible that it's only Brady that appeals and that might just be based on the suspension being too long. 

[The Old Crow]

Yeah, they took a risk and he was a great player for a few years here.

But it almost sounds like some of you are trying to make the case that 'because he was a Patriot', he murdered someone and we're ok with that.

That's nonsense and you all know it.

I never drew that analogy. My point is that some Patriot fans believe that by releasing a player immediately , that makes their organization more honorable than other teams that also have player issues.

[Valpo2004]

You are not thinking this through. This has been the worst year ever for the NFL in terms of how it has handled disciplinary actions. The owners have not been happy with Goodell all year long. Now he has Kraft, his biggest supporter coming after him. We will see where this goes but this could be the proverbial straw ...

 

By getting punished, Kraft lost any gravitas needed to lead the charge to remove Goodell.  

 

Some other owner would have to lead that charge.  I couldn't be Kraft or even Irsay for that matter due to recent punishments on them.  

 

They would have to find a owner that's fairly disconnected from any of the recent issues but well known enough and powerful enough to get the others to back him.  The problem is a lot of owners have been punished recently.  Irsay, Kraft, the owner of the Jets (don't remember his name), owner of the browns, you could probably throw the owner of the saints in there.  None of those guys could reasonably lead the pack because of the punishments.  You don't get people to back you on these things when it appears you are doing it for revenge related reasons.

 

I'm not privileged to the politics of the owners meetings, so I don't know which owners are considered leaders of the pack other then Kraft was to some extent.  But they need a leader in there who hasn't gotten punished personally or his team hasn't received punishments recently.  

[Valpo2004]

I never drew that analogy. My point is that some Patriot fans believe that by releasing a player immediately , that makes their organization more honorable than other teams that also have player issues.

 

Not necessarily but they didn't do anything less honorable in that regard.  Only other player in recent memory that I can remember being charged with murder is Ray Lewis, but that charge was dropped.  

[dynasty13]

I never drew that analogy. My point is that some Patriot fans believe that by releasing a player immediately , that makes their organization more honorable than other teams that also have player issues.

 

My apologies for misunderstanding. I think I was probably more responding to the poster who said the Patriots lie cheat and kill. It's impossible to predict everything, and by cutting him immediately, the organization is saying they don't want to be associated with it and it doesnt reflect what the team stands for. Baltimore did the same with Ray Rice much to their credit.

[The Old Crow]

By getting punished, Kraft lost any gravitas needed to lead the charge to remove Goodell.

Some other owner would have to lead that charge. I couldn't be Kraft or even Irsay for that matter due to recent punishments on them.

They would have to find a owner that's fairly disconnected from any of the recent issues but well known enough and powerful enough to get the others to back him. The problem is a lot of owners have been punished recently. Irsay, Kraft, the owner of the Jets (don't remember his name), owner of the browns, you could probably throw the owner of the saints in there. None of those guys could reasonably lead the pack because of the punishments. You don't get people to back you on these things when it appears you are doing it for revenge related reasons.

I'm not privileged to the politics of the owners meetings, so I don't know which owners are considered leaders of the pack other then Kraft was to some extent. But they need a leader in there who hasn't gotten punished personally or his team hasn't received punishments recently.

How about the fact that Kraft verbally attacked everyone and now has an omelette all over his face ?

[csmopar]

Why get personal? My comment was playful banter, no more, no less. As rediculous as some of you think we are for having the audacity to question this whole situation, many of you are really taking it to the next level.

Why? Because we are raking your arguments over the coals?

When you spend money, time and energy to go to these games, you want them to be fair

When you spend 15 years listening to people drool over how awesome the Patriots are

When you spend years watching your team get beat, not by a better team but by a group of cheaters(it's one thing to lose to a team who played better but not to one who cheats.)

When you spend years listening to Pats fans acting like they walk on water..

When you watch pats fans come onto a Colts forum and troll...

When you have pats fans who try to justify cheating by winning the Superbowl...a game the pats had to cheat to get into...

Then yeah, it gets personal.

[lollygagger8]

I think that is fair as long as they don't accept an appeal from Shady Brady and keep at the 4 game suspension. I'm glad the NFL took draft picks away as well. Ignorance is no excuse, Kraft & BB. <- Which I believe knew about it as well. 

 

I can't wait to play the NE Cheaters now since he'll be back.....Newsome and Cole are going to slam that liar's face into the turf. 

[dw49]

Except John Harbaugh came out and said that the Pats footballs were fine. And the Wells report was not able to prove any history of it. All they did was prove Brady knew the rules better than the refs about air pressure when the ref before the Jets game over inflated to 16 psi. You realize the main reason why the investigation took so long was because Wells was trying to prove a history of it? He was not able to and could not prove the AFCCG either, just a probably.

 

 

They proved it with circumstantial evidence in the AFCCG. The only way they could prove it happened before that was to get someone to admit it. This was made more difficult as Kraft cut off the interviews with the two stooges and Brady wouldn't turn over his phone. BTW... they had every reason in the world to keep talking to the equipment man as he kept changing his story.

[csmopar]

They proved it with circumstantial evidence in the AFCCG. The only way they could prove it happened before that was to get someone to admit it. This was made more difficult as Kraft cut off the interviews with the two stooges and Brady wouldn't turn over his phone. BTW... they had every reason in the world to keep talking to the equipment man as he kept changing his story.

out of likes but exactly.

[The Old Crow]

My apologies for misunderstanding. I think I was probably more responding to the poster who said the Patriots lie cheat and kill. It's impossible to predict everything, and by cutting him immediately, the organization is saying they don't want to be associated with it and it doesnt reflect what the team stands for. Baltimore did the same with Ray Rice much to their credit.

No organization is perfect, for sure. I've been embarrassed by these Raven players indiscretions.

[OffensivelyPC]

I just thought the bold was interesting. It appears that line of thinking only applies when it fits one narrative, but it's ridiculous to question of it's the other side of the argument.

No, I was talking about proof as to how far back it went.  There's absolutely proof that they cheated.  There's just no proof as to how far back it went, which is why people will question.  That's especially true when the reason the extent of the cheating couldn't be discovered because Brady and the Patriots refused to fully cooperate.

[dw49]

FYI, Kraft can appeal but that appeal goes to the Commish. If penalties stand than he can go to court which Peter King feels he will do or look to get Goodell removed, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/12/patriots-could-pursue-an-appeal-of-their-own/

 

 

We shall see if Jraft really wants to go to court with perjury as his only weapon. I don't care what Peter King says. It won't happen and it's very very very stupid to think it will. 

[PeterBowman]

since it's been established that this has gone on for a while, I'm wondering why they won't investigate further to see how far back.

[Buck Showalter]

Number of teams that have been docked a 1st round pick in the last 15 years - 1

 

Number of 1st round picks said team has been docked in last 15 years - 2

 

Number of 1st round picks docked from all other teams in said time-span - 0

 

Hmmm.... Am I wrong?

Am I the only one around here who cares about the RULES???

[PeterBowman]

We shall see if Jraft really wants to go to court with perjury as his only weapon. I don't care what Peter King says. It won't happen and it's very very very stupid to think it will. 

Like many have stated already.....let them take it to court....then they'll have to subpeona all the stuff that the Pats and Brady were trying to hide.

[dynasty13]

No, I was talking about proof as to how far back it went.  There's absolutely proof that they cheated.  There's just no proof as to how far back it went, which is why people will question.  That's especially true when the reason the extent of the cheating couldn't be discovered because Brady and the Patriots refused to fully cooperate.

 

Who cares what you were trying to prove specifically, the principles remain the same about people not being wrong for wanting to question something when there is a lack of proof. Patriots fans were getting chastised for it, but apparently you understand what we were feeling.

[amfootball]

We shall see if Jraft really wants to go to court with perjury as his only weapon. I don't care what Peter King says. It won't happen and it's very very very stupid to think it will. 

Pats are very tight with King. We will see how far it goes. But Kraft has nothing to lose here. He was punished heavily again for the second time and this time with a flawed report. He has really left Kraft no choice.

[dw49]

out of likes but exactly.

 

 

Do you ever watch court TV ? Other than celebrities like OJ and Hollywood people. Here's how it often goes.

 

Husband has affair. Husband takes life insurance policy out on wife. She disappears and is never found. The husband is the only person that has motive. No other evidence except maybe a bad statement or TEXT message. Result.. ? Jury is out about 3 hours . Verdict guilty . I have no idea where all these people are getting the idea that you have to have direct physical evidence that the crime was committed.