Is there any viability in trading for a vet Guard?

[AntonMcG]

The counter argument here(To the winning a SB now argument) is most of our players are young and have time to grow with each other as a team with few exceptions (Wayne, Redding immediately come to mind) but some of the moves  done in the last couple seasons by Grigson indicated a win now stance , Fast forward to this year and we have youth at about every position...again except Wayne and Redding and Mathis and D'qwell Jackson...Even Donald Thomas is only 28 with only 23 starts under his belt, I mean does Grigson think a rookie Center and a Safety who only has 3 starts under his belt is a way to get a quick SB win? I see that as a year away at least, I still think in Grigsons mind we have always been in a win now stance but there have been some moves to indicate otherwise

 

True, but do we now for sure if we will ever be in a better position? Will we have another Wayne and Mathis? Will we be able to keep all these young players when they get their second contracts? Of course I think we will be a Super Bowl contender for years, but Pagano said they want multiple Super Bowls... this is our first legitimate shot... we need to do what we can do now.

 

I see your point and I think it is a two pronged attack... build for the future, and be ready to compete now.... But competing now should take precedence, especially this year.

[HtownColt]

hope your not sacked and wind up on injured reserve, the season will be lost because we put 3 unproven players to protect you

It's only one way to prove yourself

[Gavin]

True, but do we now for sure if we will ever be in a better position? Will we have another Wayne and Mathis? Will we be able to keep all these young players when they get their second contracts? Of course I think we will be a Super Bowl contender for years, but Pagano said they want multiple Super Bowls... this is our first legitimate shot... we need to do what we can do now.

 

I see your point and I think it is a two pronged attack... build for the future, and be ready to compete now.... But competing now should take precedence, especially this year.

I don't think you can guarantee or say beyond a shadow of a doubt we will be in a better position but if the scouting department is good..and all indications are for the most part they are solid yet not great along the way then I fully expect we will be in a good position going forward if not then we have to figure out the source of why we are not in that position (likely do to potential bad drafts down the road or just injuries) and fix it. In my opinion and this is just my opinion I don't think we will be able to hold onto all our talented players going forward...That just seems to be the nature of the game but that's where our scouting department comes in and Grigsons eye for talent should come into play and make up for the loss in talent. I also think the plan is to contend for a SB this year, Do I think Grigson and Pagano did enough? Like you I also don't think so and that's prior to injuries and the Mathis suspension. Im just gonna sit back and watch and call it like I see it however and hope that those (such as myself) that think we should have done more are wrong and we go all the way this year, I've given my opinions from day 1 (and yes I know some have been way off in left field) but Im not in a position to make any calls so Im just gonna continue giving my opinion on the board and watch things unfold

[AntonMcG]

Who are you trying to trade for then that won't be stop gap players?

You're talking about trading top draft picks?

 

I haven't had the chance to do any proper investigation into possible candidates, but I believe our FO is doing just that. 

 

You could get quality Guards who are maybe the odd man out on a strong line (just like Donald Thomas at the Patriots) for a fourth or a fifth.

 

Again, it may not happen, but I believe it is being looked into, because, like I said, we are in a worse position than we were a week ago.

[csmopar]

last year luck took far too many hits,just not any worse is not good enough. imo we need some nfl ready vets in front of him. most draft picks are projects luck cant afford to wait for to develop. he needs protection now

All very good points. But I think its just too late in the preseason to get any real NFL starter ready vets that are really going to make a difference. Most anyone you get is gonna be past their prime and washed up or were never that good to begin with. Plus for an o line to be really good, they need to gel and get some cohesion as a unit. Its too late in preseason to try that. Prime example. Trich. They need time to study the play book especially the blocking schemes. I just don't see it being doable.

[HtownColt]

I haven't had the chance to do any proper investigation into possible candidates, but I believe our FO is doing just that.

You could get quality Guards who are maybe the odd man out on a strong line (just like Donald Thomas at the Patriots) for a fourth or a fifth.

Again, it may not happen, but I believe it is being looked into, because, like I said, we are in a worse position than we were a week ago.

That's a stop gap player, that's why I keep calling them that

[AntonMcG]

That's a stop gap player, that's why I keep calling them that

 

Donald Thomas was not a stop-gap.  I question your definition of the term. A solid and experienced player, in his late twenties, is not a stop-gap.

[HtownColt]

Donald Thomas was not a stop-gap. I question your definition of the term. A solid and experienced player, in his late twenties, is not a stop-gap.

Never said he was, Donald Thomas a free agent we went after hard so no he wasn't a stop gap, guys like McGlynn, Satele were stop gaps which will be the kind of guys that you are going to get if you are looking at guy who are the odd men out on their own team.

[AntonMcG]

Never said he was, Donald Thomas a free agent we went after hard so no he wasn't a stop gap, guys like McGlynn, Satele were stop gaps which will be the kind of guys that you are going to get if you are looking at guy who are the odd men out on their own team.

 

Another baseless assertion. 

 

There are much stronger and much deeper lines out there than ours. Thomas left New England because he was the 6th man on the line... they had a very strong line, that does not mean he was not a good player.

 

Go after the 6th guy on a team deep in line talent.

[HtownColt]

Another baseless assertion.

There are much stronger and much deeper lines out there than ours. Thomas left New England because he was the 6th man on the line... they had a very strong line, that does not mean he was not a good player.

Go after the 6th guy on a team deep in line talent.

Rather Mewhort play than that scenario

I was just throwing a quick example I wasn't going to go through teams OL and list names.

And you see how much it cost to get Thomas.

Be using a draft pick to get a 6th man OL when you have the young talent already on your roster

[AntonMcG]

Rather Mewhort play than that scenario

I was just throwing a quick example I wasn't going to go through teams OL and list names

 

 

Fair enough... I just don't share your confidence. And I think the GM and Coaches agree...maybe I am wrong, but I strongly believe the are doing their due diligence on this.

[HtownColt]

Fair enough... I just don't share your confidence. And I think the GM and Coaches agree...maybe I am wrong, but I strongly believe the are doing their due diligence on this.

Mewhort was working with the 1st team since OTAs, they have the confidence in him

[AntonMcG]

Mewhort was working with the 1st team since OTAs, they have the confidence in him

 

Good God... is this a last word thing with you, or are you being obtuse for your own amusement? They drafted him with their first pick, I don't doubt they have faith in him, but they have made it clear they do not like to play rookie linemen, unless absolutely necessary. Mewhort ran with the firsts until Thomas was 100%, then he ran mainly with the seconds... Grigson and Pagano have not made their rookie lineman reservations for the sake of it, they have genuine concerns, whether or not you choose to acknowledge them.

 

We do not have strong depth, and we lost our most experienced interior guy a few days ago... he needs to be replaced, even if Mewhort starts over him, he needs to be there. 

 

I acknowledge the fact that you do want the kids to start, that's fine, but once again... we need people capable of competing to start, we do not have that, and we are handing inexperienced players their jobs.

[HtownColt]

Good God... is this a last word thing with you, or are you being obtuse for your own amusement? They drafted him with their first pick, I don't doubt they have faith in him, but they have made it clear they do not like to play rookie linemen, unless absolutely necessary. Mewhort ran with the firsts until Thomas was 100%, then he ran mainly with the seconds... Grigson and Pagano have not made their rookie lineman reservations for the sake of it, they have genuine concerns, whether or not you choose to acknowledge them.

We do not have strong depth, and we lost our most experienced interior guy a few days ago... he needs to be replaced, even if Mewhort starts over him, he needs to be there.

I acknowledge the fact that you do want the kids to start, that's fine, but once again... we need people capable of competing to start, we do not have that, and we are handing inexperienced players their jobs.

No last word game for me that's for women. Lol god bless. I'll let Mewhort/Holmes do the talking for me

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

He was underwhelming, he will be doing good to hold down his position; asking him to help cover any mistakes by Holmes is a bit more than I would be comfortable asking him to do.

 

If we were the Raiders, Jags, etc ... with no legitimate shot at the Super Bowl, and disposable QBs I would be right there with you.  Trial by fire .... let them learn, make mistakes, and get experience ... but we are in a completely different situation; we are ready to make a run now, and we have a much more valuable commodity (who has already taken enough hits) at risk behind the line than those teams.

Lol wasn't he only 1 position higher on the positional rankings than Mcglynny? 

 

People say "Oh it's growing pains, surely he will get better" 

 

Who is to say that he won't, or that he just sucks? He could be the next Carimi, Sherrod, Mcglynn, or (insert awful lineman here)? 

[akcolt]

Offensive Line play is about continuity if we are going with the young guys. I think they start getting every first team snap from here on out. Quit pretending like we have something better if we don't. Let these guys get as much time together as possible.

 

I can't believe we are still talking about the interior of our offensive line. Grigs passed on everything during the FA period. I sure hope he is right about these young guys or Luck will have to prove he is in fact the best running QB in the league. I guess we will see what it looks like in a week vs NYJ.

 

I still don't buy he was counting on Donald Thomas to be there week 1 . I am not saying he was counting on another season ending injury just that he could not have been counting on Thomas as a week 1 starter. Over half the forum thought he would start on the PUP I would hope that possibility crossed our GM's mind. I know it did you could tell by the way he talked about his return.

 

Either we are going with the young guns or Grigs has a back up plan. Waiting on cuts would only make sense if it is for depth in my opinion. First cut isn't until the 27th final cuts to 53 the 31st. We sign someone on the 31st not much time for that continuity that is so important. We play Denver the 7th.

 

Looks like Mewhort- Holmes - Thorton to me.

[LockeDown]

Luck deserves a great line but doesnt need one. He is a big, physical, fast qb with a linebacker mentality and we progress in the playoffs every year. He has big time weapons this year. All we need is a defense that can slow brady and manning down and give luck the ball with last possession

[YOUR GM]

I felt the time to bring in a proven, veteran guard was during free agency. It was obvious DT had serious red flags, as does Lance Louis and even Joe Reitz, as much as I like him. This team doesn't seem to believe in legit competition amongst the line, as they've already penciled in inexperienced players as the starters and have failed to surround them with backups even worthy of being in the conversation to start ahead of them. And now Pagano is coming out saying he's worried about the inexperience of the interior line? Just seems to me that these guys either 

 

A) Aren't all on the same page, or

 

B) Don't really have a clue as to what they're trying to accomplish  

[Rhane19]

We could trade our 1st rounder next year for Mike McGlynn of the Redskins. According to my MS Paint, he's an elite starter.

 

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/395x615q90/661/sFtu2v.png

hahaha, the Redskins don't even know they have a future HOF on their 3rd string... foooolish

[ztboiler]

Good God... is this a last word thing with you, or are you being obtuse for your own amusement? They drafted him with their first pick, I don't doubt they have faith in him, but they have made it clear they do not like to play rookie linemen, unless absolutely necessary. Mewhort ran with the firsts until Thomas was 100%, then he ran mainly with the seconds... Grigson and Pagano have not made their rookie lineman reservations for the sake of it, they have genuine concerns, whether or not you choose to acknowledge them.

 

We do not have strong depth, and we lost our most experienced interior guy a few days ago... he needs to be replaced, even if Mewhort starts over him, he needs to be there. 

 

I acknowledge the fact that you do want the kids to start, that's fine, but once again... we need people capable of competing to start, we do not have that, and we are handing inexperienced players their jobs.

I know I'm jumping into an exchange that is largely between you and HTown....

 

Your suggestion in the OP that viable trades for a proven OG should be looked into, and likey are by Grigs and Co. is not only valid but makes sense.  

 

However, the loss of Thomas is not, by itself, an event that would trigger a deviation in the personnel plan.  Grigs has had 6+ months to decide what his back-up plan at LG would be, so it is very unlikely that he will find a deal at a value point he'll embrace that would yield valid competition for Mewhort.  Actions speak the loudest, and Grigson's actions this off-season are that he is fully planning for Mewhort to be the starter if Thomas can't go.  

 

The trigger that would upend that plan is if Mewhort struggles, not Thomas going down.  So, look for a vet FA signing or low level trade involving players on the roster bubble between now and the start of the season unless there is an additional trigger event.

 

My bias is that Nixon, Reitz, and Louis are quality depth and make for a solid top 8 lineman, but I'll not challenge the opinions of others that aren't comfortable with that.

[AntonMcG]

I know I'm jumping into an exchange that is largely between you and HTown....

 

Your suggestion in the OP that viable trades for a proven OG should be looked into, and likey are by Grigs and Co. is not only valid but makes sense.  

 

However, the loss of Thomas is not, by itself, an event that would trigger a deviation in the personnel plan.  Grigs has had 6+ months to decide what his back-up plan at LG would be, so it is very unlikely that he will find a deal at a value point he'll embrace that would yield valid competition for Mewhort.  Actions speak the loudest, and Grigson's actions this off-season are that he is fully planning for Mewhort to be the starter if Thomas can't go.  

 

The trigger that would upend that plan is if Mewhort struggles, not Thomas going down.  So, look for a vet FA signing or low level trade involving players on the roster bubble between now and the start of the season unless there is an additional trigger event.

 

My bias is that Nixon, Reitz, and Louis are quality depth and make for a solid top 8 lineman, but I'll not challenge the opinions of others that aren't comfortable with that.

 

Good points and I agree with you to an extent. However, whilst the coaching staff may have been good with Mewhort starting week one, that was still dependent on Thomas coming back into the lineup and competing as the season progressed... we are expecting a long season after all. Thomas was running with the firsts consistently for a week before he went down. Him going out for the year leaves us fairly thin all of a sudden. The reservations made by Pagano are testament to their unease at the current situation.

 

Certainly, we should not bring someone in for the sake of it, but if they can identify someone of the sufficient quality, then I doubt there would be much hesitation on the part of the Colts, especially given Grigson's aggressive nature regarding personnel.

 

I have no doubt Mewhort has talent, but so does Thornton, and despite flashing great ability last year, he was horribly inconsistent and a liability at times... Holmes is somewhat of an unknown. I really don't think any of us can gauge how the interior line will perform this year given the lack of evidence... which may be the root of my concern.

[GoColts8818]

I think you let the young guys grow together. If Grigson hit on thr middle of the line picks then this might be a little short term pain for years of good line play in the middle.

[OLD FAN MAN]

we will know for sure Thursday, imo other teams will try to take advantage of our inexperience in the middle of the o-line, they will give it a good test. hope for the best but it scares me

[jskinnz]

In days gone by, this very concept would have been outlandish to consider for the Colts. However, given the aggressive nature of our current Front Office, and the glaring lack of proven experience within our interior line... to me, this makes sense.

 

Some of you are a lot more comfortable with how our line looks right now than I am, which is fine. I do not consider myself a pessimist, I simply believe in the idea of the NFL being a 'win now' league, and I certainly believe we are a capable O-Line away from epitomizing that concept. So it makes sense to be aggressive and go after a proven and experienced Guard, instead of throwing rookies (who, of course, are talented) into the deep end.

 

My suspicions were furthered by the recent comments Pagano made highlighting his reservations about the line when Thomas went down, making the point that you do not want to throw rookies in like that. Maybe Mewhort is a huge success... but is it a risk you want to take? After all, rookie linemen rarely set the world alight. 

 

The depth within the O-Line is worrying to me as well... Lance Louis seems capable, but is that enough for the interior to be covered?

 

Personally, I would be shocked if this was not being looked into as I type. Grigson and his staff seem to leave no stone unturned in trying to make this team better, sometimes they fail of course, but you have to respect the mindset.

 

So the question would be...who do they go after? I would imagine it would be someone in a similar mold to Thomas... someone who has talent and experience, but has fallen victim to great depth within the O-Line of their current team. Does anyone have any ideas as to who that may be?

 

What would we be willing to give up? A lot of people are sick of us throwing away draft picks... but if we are securing someone who we know can make our team better now... it makes sense. Is a third rounder out of the question? I would imagine a fourth myself.

 

Maybe it proves too difficult to pull off, but i would be shocked if the idea has not entered the head of our GM. It would be a very Grigson-esque move.

Interesting thread. My take is that good teams build primarily through the draft and so you have to trust your college and pro scouting. I don't think they give up another draft pick to bring someone it. They liked who they had and while DT going down hurts, there is a reason why Mewhort was taken where he was and Louis was brought in. To me they still have talent and depth enough to have a solid starting 5 and a flexible 3 to 4 as back-ups.

I think Pagano's concern was real but also littered with coach speak as well. I did not take his comments to mean they are actively beating the bushes to bring someone in through trade. Are they monitoring other teams and watching the FA wire? Sure - I would hope so but at this point, I would be shocked to find one of their contingency plans being trading for someone.

[OLD FAN MAN]

Interesting thread. My take is that good teams build primarily through the draft and so you have to trust your college and pro scouting. I don't think they give up another draft pick to bring someone it. They liked who they had and while DT going down hurts, there is a reason why Mewhort was taken where he was and Louis was brought in. To me they still have talent and depth enough to have a solid starting 5 and a flexible 3 to 4 as back-ups.

I think Pagano's concern was real but also littered with coach speak as well. I did not take his comments to mean they are actively beating the bushes to bring someone in through trade. Are they monitoring other teams and watching the FA wire? Sure - I would hope so but at this point, I would be shocked to find one of their contingency plans being trading for someone.

grigs has made a habit of shocking us

[Dark_Indy]

Donald Thomas was not a stop-gap.  I question your definition of the term. A solid and experienced player, in his late twenties, is not a stop-gap.

 

"Solid" 

 

everywhere but his quads.

[Dark Superman]

I think if Mewort shows promise we should cut Thomas.

[GoColts8818]

I think if Mewort shows promise we should cut Thomas.

We could very well to save cap space but I could also see the argument to keep him around for depth as he can play both guard spots and maybe even center in a pinch.  Still I have a feeling if the Colts young guns in the middle of the line plays well Thomas will be cut to save the cap money. 

[lollygagger8]

I believe we should definitely look into some vet O-Linemen. 

 

Yes we the MewHolmesTon 3 in the middle, but we don't know how they will look.... and what if any of them go down? What if Castanzo or Cherilus goes down? Who's going to step in at Tackle? 

 

We need more depth, especially when we seem to have injury after injury. I'd rather have a vet Guard in there, and if Holmes ends up not being very good, possibly move Mewhort to Center. 

[CoachLite]

Do you suppose that, as teams are forced to cut down toward 53, a serviceable guard might fall into our lap? Someone like a Jonathon Martin or Rodney Austin?

[BOTT]

Tis exactly what scares us. Also Holmes could be worse than satele. We don't want to keep letting luck get hit like this.

No, he couldn't be worse than Satele

[HtownColt]

Do you suppose that, as teams are forced to cut down toward 53, a serviceable guard might fall into our lap? Someone like a Jonathon Martin or Rodney Austin?

Were at the bottom of the totem pole on the waiver wire though. Or go after guys who aren't subject to the waiver wire

[throwing BBZ]

At the time, Vasquez was not a big name player. He got a contract similar to Thomas' for around 4 years 23 mil. And myself along with many other people on this board were pulling for the Colts to get Vasquez. I wasn't crazy about the signing of Thomas to begin with especially since he got a similar contract to Vasquez who at the time was more highly touted. Plus Thomas had some injury history to him.

 

Wrong!!  There is NOTHING Similar about their contracts.

There is nothing to your point anyway, Vasquez picked Denver because that is where he WANTED to play,  just in case you Don`t Follow this stuff.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

No, he couldn't be worse than Satele

Sure he could.

[Coffeedrinker]

I think teams are always looking at all options to help them improve.  That being said I'm not sure trading draft picks before the first preseason game is a smart way to go, especially when it comes to the oline.  As AkColt and others of said the oline is a place where the whole can be greater than the sum of its parts if a level of comfort and continuity is established.  So yes it may seem like a good idea to bring in a player that is better than Mewhort is now but you also have to look at the effect it will have in 3, 4 and 5 years.  

 

If you want players to get better and improve you have to let them play.

[throwing BBZ]

In days gone by, this very concept would have been outlandish to consider for the Colts. However, given the aggressive nature of our current Front Office, and the glaring lack of proven experience within our interior line... to me, this makes sense.

 

Some of you are a lot more comfortable with how our line looks right now than I am, which is fine. I do not consider myself a pessimist, I simply believe in the idea of the NFL being a 'win now' league, and I certainly believe we are a capable O-Line away from epitomizing that concept. So it makes sense to be aggressive and go after a proven and experienced Guard, instead of throwing rookies (who, of course, are talented) into the deep end.

 

My suspicions were furthered by the recent comments Pagano made highlighting his reservations about the line when Thomas went down, making the point that you do not want to throw rookies in like that. Maybe Mewhort is a huge success... but is it a risk you want to take? After all, rookie linemen rarely set the world alight. 

 

The depth within the O-Line is worrying to me as well... Lance Louis seems capable, but is that enough for the interior to be covered?

 

Personally, I would be shocked if this was not being looked into as I type. Grigson and his staff seem to leave no stone unturned in trying to make this team better, sometimes they fail of course, but you have to respect the mindset.

 

So the question would be...who do they go after? I would imagine it would be someone in a similar mold to Thomas... someone who has talent and experience, but has fallen victim to great depth within the O-Line of their current team. Does anyone have any ideas as to who that may be?

 

What would we be willing to give up? A lot of people are sick of us throwing away draft picks... but if we are securing someone who we know can make our team better now... it makes sense. Is a third rounder out of the question? I would imagine a fourth myself.

 

Maybe it proves too difficult to pull off, but i would be shocked if the idea has not entered the head of our GM. It would be a very Grigson-esque move.

 

You left out Reitz who is a more than capable guard also.

And you totally whiffed on the larger question. I guarantee you our GM & Coach P are much more concerned with the backup Center position. Mewhort? No Way! That is Really scary.

They have a Rookie in J Harrison they have probably already made up their minds on. The question is, do they go after a Guard/Center?

[throwing BBZ]

Interesting thread. My take is that good teams build primarily through the draft and so you have to trust your college and pro scouting. I don't think they give up another draft pick to bring someone it. They liked who they had and while DT going down hurts, there is a reason why Mewhort was taken where he was and Louis was brought in. To me they still have talent and depth enough to have a solid starting 5 and a flexible 3 to 4 as back-ups.

I think Pagano's concern was real but also littered with coach speak as well. I did not take his comments to mean they are actively beating the bushes to bring someone in through trade. Are they monitoring other teams and watching the FA wire? Sure - I would hope so but at this point, I would be shocked to find one of their contingency plans being trading for someone.

 

 We will get plenty of offers from other teams looking to move more expensive players as their young players show enough promise.

[Valpo2004]

Blind post but I'm happy with the depth on our O-line.  Louis has to recover from some injuries but he has played well in the NFL in the past.

 

He's at least good enough to push Mewhort and Thornton.

 

Reitz is a solid backup as well.   

 

Plus Mewhort and Holmes are apparently holding their own against Art Jones who is a very good player.

[C0LT5]

I still don't buy he was counting on Donald Thomas to be there week 1 . I am not saying he was counting on another season ending injury just that he could not have been counting on Thomas as a week 1 starter. Over half the forum thought he would start on the PUP I would hope that possibility crossed our GM's mind. I know it did you could tell by the way he talked about his return.

 

If the guy was practicing first week of training camp he was expected to be there first week of the season. I think this is pretty obvious. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

I think teams are always looking at all options to help them improve.  That being said I'm not sure trading draft picks before the first preseason game is a smart way to go, especially when it comes to the oline.  As AkColt and others of said the oline is a place where the whole can be greater than the sum of its parts if a level of comfort and continuity is established.  So yes it may seem like a good idea to bring in a player that is better than Mewhort is now but you also have to look at the effect it will have in 3, 4 and 5 years.  

 

If you want players to get better and improve you have to let them play.

I agree let them play and next year or the year after they may be good. but we have a chance to go all the way this year. why take a chance on inexperience if we can upgrade. if we had no chance at anything I could see let them develop, what would we have to lose. superbowl chances don't come along every year, imo don't let the o-lines inexperience keep you from it if upgrades are available. the future is now