Official Training Camp thread (mega merge)

[chad72]

@ColtsAuth_Kyle: Yay the Colts' defensive line got six sacks today. Crap the offensive line allowed six sacks today.

 

I hope habits die the hard way and Luck stops being Big Ben. Remember Pep talking about Luck's mentality to be a LB. Guess what Andrew, you're not a LB , so be a QB and quit taking sacks and get rid of the ball.

 

Arians coached Peyton for his first year or maybe two (I think) and I pointed out that Peyton never took checkdowns to RBs till that SB run in 2006 consistently, loved to go deep and the Arians' offense baptism by fire could have built some tendencies into Peyton. I always wondered if tendencies get built into QBs early in their NFL career and was thus happy that Arians left for those reasons. The Big Ben tendencies and not taking checkdown tendencies that Luck showed in year 1 have to be handled in year 2, those are the 2 main aspects I am watching. Don't take unnecessary hits, get rid of the ball fast, and take a lot of checkdowns.

[HtownColt]

I hope habits die the hard way and Luck stops being Big Ben. Remember Pep talking about Luck's mentality to be a LB. Guess what Andrew, you're not a LB , so be a QB and quit taking sacks and get rid of the ball.

In all fairness Hassleback was sacked at least 3 times today, don't know where the other three came from but the 2nd OL is a problem right now with Thorton, Holmes, and Reitz sitting out right now

[GoColts8818]

That's right.  It was stated already that McNary will be a ILB.  He'll probably be backing up Freeman, Conner or Angerer (spelling?).

I did some research on it and saw this Colts made the choice to move him to ILB the past couple of days due to Angerer's injury still being a factor.  It also said Sidbury has been playing a joker spot at linebacker while Walden has been more of a traditional Strongside linebacker.  Sounds like Sidbury will also be used on more passing downs again, another option the Colts have to go to behind Walden in passing situations.  My guess is Walden will start as you see more running early in series but Sidbury will come in or Mathis will slide over, or they will go to the nickel package in passing situations to cover up Walden.  We have lots of options at linebacker and my guess is we are going to see all of them and it doesn't matter if you are starter or not if you are on the roster you are going to see a lot of reps. 

[GoColts8818]

@ColtsAuth_Kyle: Yay the Colts' defensive line got six sacks today. Crap the offensive line allowed six sacks today.

Yeah I had the same thought, I am not sure if it's YAY the D-line got six sacks or uh oh the Colts o-line gave up six sacks. 

 

I think the o-line is still a bit of a work in progress right now.  I don't fully expect it to be better this year.  I just hope we see signs of improvement. 

[HtownColt]

@gmbremer: Busy afternoon for LB Josh McNary. Saw action with all 3 defensive units. #ColtsCamp

[Smonroe]

In all fairness Hassleback was sacked at least 3 times today, don't know where the other three came from but the 2nd OL is a problem right now with Thorton, Holmes, and Reitz sitting out right now

Unless Thorton starts playing lights out, we better get used to seeing McGlynn starting.

Is Reitz always injured? He was looking like a serviceable backup for a while.

[HtownColt]

Unless Thorton starts playing lights out, we better get used to seeing McGlynn starting.

Is Reitz always injured? He was looking like a serviceable backup for a while.

He had got that stinger last practice

[coltsfanatic24]

Everything I've seen written or said about Walden is that his biggest skill is stopping the run.  Again, given the Colts lack of success at stopping the rush having a linebacker here who can do that probably isn't a bad thing. 

 

Stopping the run in college and doing it in the NFL are different things.  Most rookies don't walk in and are great in the NFL just because they were in college, they have to work at it and grow and develop into it.  It sounds like what the Colts are tying to do is bring Werner a long so as to not over load him in his rookie season.  Again it was Pagano, not me who said they are going to leave him at the weakside linebacker spot this year.  Does that mean Werner can never ever play strong side linebacker in his career?  Probably not.  As he gets more experienced I am sure they will feel comfortable with him doing different things but at least for now Pagano sounds like he wants him to only focus on learning the weakside linebacker spot.  If that's the case he's not going to take Walden's job because Walden is playing the strongside linebacker spot.  Again, they do different things so it's not a matter of him being better than Walden it's a question of is he better than Walden at Walden's job and since according to the coach he's not even learning that job right now he can't be better at that job right now.  Can that change in the future?  Sure. 

Analysis  Werner Strengths

 

Flexible athlete with the natural bend to dip and contort his body to get under or around blocks. Shows excellent snap anticipation and fires out of his stance. Projects as a strong-side 4-3 end who can play the run well and get pressure on the quarterback. Possesses good quickness off the snap for his size and flashes some shimmy to get the inside lane. Finds the ball well and uses active hands to rip past tackles after initial contact. Brings power to his punch, can bull his man toward the quarterback with leverage. Swallows running backs after shedding his man in the run game, has athleticism to make tackles in space. Stacks and sheds well, sets the edge and works off blocks to make stops in the run game. Times jumps well to knock down passes if unable to get to the quarterback, also looks comfortable making plays in coverage (18 career passes defended).

 

I understand your point about stopping the run and Walden being more experienced but one of Werner's strengths is stopping the run. For all we know Werner could be a better run stopper then Walden. What if teams decide to throw on 1st and 2nd downs? Will be at a disadvantage because Walden isn't a good pass rusher and QB's will have a clean pocket. Which brings me back to the point i made about Kerrigan. Kerrigan isn't your typical strongside linebacker but he made the switch because of Orakpo. Sometimes both the Lolb and the Rolb rush at the same time, the Steerlers dd it with Harrison and Woodley, Ravens with Kruger and Suggs. We can do the same with Mathis and Werner.

 

The only  reason i can think of Walden starting is Grigson trying to save face of signing him to so much money. From a football perspective it makes absolutely no sense at all of Walden starting, Werner is clearly the more talented player. Every gm makes a mistake or two it happens sometimes. If the coach is saying Werner playing strongside it could change in the future, let's hope the future is September 8th vs the Raiders.

[GoColts8818]

Analysis  Werner Strengths

 

Flexible athlete with the natural bend to dip and contort his body to get under or around blocks. Shows excellent snap anticipation and fires out of his stance. Projects as a strong-side 4-3 end who can play the run well and get pressure on the quarterback. Possesses good quickness off the snap for his size and flashes some shimmy to get the inside lane. Finds the ball well and uses active hands to rip past tackles after initial contact. Brings power to his punch, can bull his man toward the quarterback with leverage. Swallows running backs after shedding his man in the run game, has athleticism to make tackles in space. Stacks and sheds well, sets the edge and works off blocks to make stops in the run game. Times jumps well to knock down passes if unable to get to the quarterback, also looks comfortable making plays in coverage (18 career passes defended).

 

I understand your point about stopping the run and Walden being more experienced but one of Werner's strengths is stopping the run. For all we know Werner could be a better run stopper then Walden. What if teams decide to throw on 1st and 2nd downs? Will be at a disadvantage because Walden isn't a good pass rusher and QB's will have a clean pocket. Which brings me back to the point i made about Kerrigan. Kerrigan isn't your typical strongside linebacker but he made the switch because of Orakpo. Sometimes both the Lolb and the Rolb rush at the same time, the Steerlers dd it with Harrison and Woodley, Ravens with Kruger and Suggs. We can do the same with Mathis and Werner.

 

The only  reason i can think of Walden starting is Grigson trying to save face of signing him to so much money. From a football perspective it makes absolutely no sense at all of Walden starting, Werner is clearly the more talented player. Every gm makes a mistake or two it happens sometimes. If the coach is saying Werner playing strongside it could change in the future, let's hope the future is September 8th vs the Raiders.

Again I didn't say he couldn't play Strongside linebacker. I said PAGANO SAID they are going to keep him at weakside linebacker this year as to not over load him.  If you don't like it yell at Pagano because he's the one saying that. If they aren't even looking at him as a strongside linebacker right now or asking him to learn it he's not better at it than the guy who is doing it because he's not doing.  It doesn't mean Werner can't do it down the road but as of now according to the headcoach he's only playing weakside linebacker.

 

We've yet to see Werner in a NFL game and we've yet to see Walden play for the Colts so it's impossible to know that Werner is better than Walden yet. Maybe he will end up being, if he does I am sure the Colts will react accordingly. 

[NewColtsFan]

I agree that Satele couldn't be as bad as he was lat year unless he was injured. Holmes hasn't been healthy in what, two years? I don't him to magically be healed and step into a starting job. But I want to see him on the field eventually.

Dang, that Shipley trade is looking bad, isn't it?

 

No....  it's only been one year....   September of last year to August of this year.    One year.   

 

But, there have been two separate incidents.    Neither his fault.    Can't blame a guy if someone rolls up your ankle....  that stuff happens in football...

[Gavin]

A large part of the sacks are not Luck taking them from what I can see in TC, Our O Line is really that bad right now, we need guys to get healthy. On a positive note, Vaughn takes ALOT of flack from most of us here(Im probably 1 of the front runners in giving him flack.....although well deserved) but he did have an interception to his credit today, Big deal? No....But hey congrats to him, You can also just see the difference (at least right now) the impact having a Laron Landry means to your secondary, huge difference then having Zbi

[coltsfanatic24]

Again I didn't say he couldn't play Strongside linebacker. I said PAGANO SAID they are going to keep him at weakside linebacker this year as to not over load him.  If you don't like it yell at Pagano because he's the one saying that. If they aren't even looking at him as a strongside linebacker right now or asking him to learn it he's not better at it than the guy who is doing it because he's not doing.  It doesn't mean Werner can't do it down the road but as of now according to the headcoach he's only playing weakside linebacker.

 

We've yet to see Werner in a NFL game and we've yet to see Walden play for the Colts so it's impossible to know that Werner is better than Walden yet. Maybe he will end up being, if he does I am sure the Colts will react accordingly. 

I was replying to what you said about how difficult it is for college players transition to the run game in the NFL. Some rookies do struggle but some like Kerrigan and Brooks Reed do well. We've yet to see Werner in the NFL but we've seen what Walden can do with the Packers and i wasn't impressed at all. When we played the Packers last year Winston Justice played like Clady that game, Walden was a non factor. Donald Brown out of all people had a good game with 17att and 84 yards 4.9avg, and most of the runs were to Walden's side because theirs a guy called Clay Matthews. I would rather take my chances with a rookie then to see Walden start.

[GoColts8818]

I was replying to what you said about how difficult it is for college players transition to the run game in the NFL. Some rookies do struggle but some like Kerrigan and Brooks Reed do well. We've yet to see Werner in the NFL but we've seen what Walden can do with the Packers and i wasn't impressed at all. When we played the Packers last year Winston Justice played like Clady that game, Walden was a non factor. Donald Brown out of all people had a good game with 17att and 84 yards 4.9avg, and most of the runs were to Walden's side because theirs a guy called Clay Matthews. I would rather take my chances with a rookie then to see Walden start.

Yes most rookies do walk in and have to grow.  Most don't walk in as finished products when they get to the NFL.  Even Andrew Luck who had about as good of a rookie season as you can ask for from a rookie still has growing to do before he's going to be a finished product and probably look like what he did in his last year at Stanford.  So just because Werner was able to handle being the strongside linebacker his last year in college doesn't mean he's ready to do it at the NFL level.  Like I said in another post it doesn't mean he'll never be able to play strongside linebacker but right now Pagano wants him to only focus on learning the weakside linebacker position which means he's not even learning Walden's position at the moment so if he's not learning it he's not an option to play it.  Can that change in the future?  Sure. 

[deedub75]

Just saw on the news that DHB sprained his left knee today.  No timetable for his return. 

[Smonroe]

No....  it's only been one year....   September of last year to August of this year.    One year.   

 

But, there have been two separate incidents.    Neither his fault.    Can't blame a guy if someone rolls up your ankle....  that stuff happens in football...

Is he recovered from the ankle in college? Then he had the pec at the combine. Now the leg and he's carted off the field. I didn't know he was rolled up on, I thought that was Thorton.

I admire that he played through it at SC, but it seems like it's always something with him.

[GoColts8818]

Just saw on the news that DHB sprained his left knee today.  No timetable for his return. 

I don't want to panic anyone but sometimes sprained knees are given MRI's and turned into torn ACL's.  With that said I've heard nothing about DHB getting an MRI so I don't want anyone to panic. 

[Smonroe]

Just saw on the news that DHB sprained his left knee today.  No timetable for his return.

Typically two to four weeks depending on if it swells. I doubt he plays next Sunday.

[GoColts8818]

Typically two to four weeks depending on if it swells. I doubt he plays next Sunday.

Good chance to see what Hilton can do on the outside if that's who plays out there.  If not another chance for someone like Brazil to show what he can do out there or a guy like Whalen or one of the other WRs trying to make the roster. 

[Coltswarriors]

Really hope DHB's injury isn't too serious.

 

Heard Laron Landry looked good today.

[coltsfanatic24]

Kelley will get more playing time and a chance to improve himself now that DHB won't play Sunday.

[jvan1973]

Kelley will get more playing time and a chance to improve himself now that DHB won't play Sunday.

i hope he seperates himself from the pack He is a huge target

[jvan1973]

Really hope DHB's injury isn't too serious.

Heard Laron Landry looked good today.

he could have layed several guys out today. He pulled up. I'm sure he is itching to blast someone in the bills game

[Smonroe]

i hope he seperates himself from the pack He is a huge target

 

They say he's looking pretty good.  He and NaPalm should become MH's best friends.  They have an outside chance of making the team with Brazil being out.

[Legend of Luck]

Good chance to see what Hilton can do on the outside if that's who plays out there.  If not another chance for someone like Brazil to show what he can do out there or a guy like Whalen or one of the other WRs trying to make the roster. 

 

Hope the injury is not serious. He needs as much camp time as possible with Luck. But, I feel good knowing that T.Y. and Griff are there to take over the starting spots. I feel extremely comfortable with those two. Much like last year with TY and Collie before Collie went down. We will miss DHB's size though, so fingers crossed for a quick recovery.

[jvan1973]

They say he's looking pretty good. He and NaPalm should become MH's best friends. They have an outside chance of making the team with Brazil being out.

i hope palmer makes it. My daughters went to elementary through high school with him.

[HtownColt]

I had a feeling Andrew had forgot about the jersey switching Sidbury and Sheppard did when he reported Sidbury was playing ILB, that wasn't true it was Sheppard.

 

I found out today that Kelvin Sheppard has switched his jersey number to 52, while Lawrence Sidbury had taken Scott Lutrus' old 56 number. For the longest time today, it looked to me like Sidbury was now a starting ILB. But no, that was Sheppard. The competition between him and Kavell Conner looks like it's finally clearing up. Sheppard is almost always the one lining up next to Jerrell Freeman now.

[YOUR GM]

Craig Kelley @CraigKColts 10s#Colts had six sacks today, including ones by Drake Nevis and Josh Chapman. Cassius Vaughn had pick

Probably just McGlynn and Satele stinking it up again

[HtownColt]

Football is back, too bad it's the Cowboys lol

[Smonroe]

Probably just McGlynn and Satele stinking it up again

 

I think they "sacked" MH, so it was probably a second team line they were going against.

[HtownColt]

Pat Angerer has a knee issue according to an article by Mike Chappell today he has been icing his knee the past couple days

[atapcl]

Any word on Adongo?  Does he participate at training camp?

I believe he still has an injured bicep.

[VaAllDay757]

Nevis has alot of potential I hope he gets plenty of PT this season

[John Dee]

Nevis is a STUD, who cannot stay in the game.   

 

Always hurt....     this TC is big for Drake.     

Nevis has alot of potential I hope he gets plenty of PT this season

[CanuckColt]

Pat Angerer has a knee issue according to an article by Mike Chappell today he has been icing his knee the past couple days

Geez, he keeps getting hurt in new ways...a football player must be reasonably durable...Angerer looks like he might be slipping below the 53-man roster number.

[BOTT]

Is he recovered from the ankle in college? Then he had the pec at the combine. Now the leg and he's carted off the field. I didn't know he was rolled up on, I thought that was Thorton.

I admire that he played through it at SC, but it seems like it's always something with him.

Teams cart a lot of player off the practice field this time of year.....and turns out not to be much. Teams are very cautious.

[BOTT]

I hope habits die the hard way and Luck stops being Big Ben. Remember Pep talking about Luck's mentality to be a LB. Guess what Andrew, you're not a LB , so be a QB and quit taking sacks and get rid of the ball.

 

Arians coached Peyton for his first year or maybe two (I think) and I pointed out that Peyton never took checkdowns to RBs till that SB run in 2006 consistently, loved to go deep and the Arians' offense baptism by fire could have built some tendencies into Peyton. I always wondered if tendencies get built into QBs early in their NFL career and was thus happy that Arians left for those reasons. The Big Ben tendencies and not taking checkdown tendencies that Luck showed in year 1 have to be handled in year 2, those are the 2 main aspects I am watching. Don't take unnecessary hits, get rid of the ball fast, and take a lot of checkdowns.

Marshall Faulk caught 87 passes Peyton's rookie year. Edge averaged over 50 catches when he was Indy. Not all check downs, but I'm guessing a good majority of them were.

Plus, I think you are inflating Arians role.....Tom Moore was the OC.

[dw49]

Marshall Faulk caught 87 passes Peyton's rookie year. Edge averaged over 50 catches when he was Indy. Not all check downs, but I'm guessing a good majority of them were.

Plus, I think you are inflating Arians role.....Tom Moore was the OC.

 

 

You're correct , it was Moore's offense , not B.A.'s   Arians was the QB coach back then.

[CR91]

if anyone was wondering why sidbury was playing ILB that was actually sheppard. hes wearing 52 now. sidbury is wearing 56

[jvan1973]

if anyone was wondering why sidbury was playing ILB that was actually sheppard. hes wearing 52 now. sidbury is wearing 56

that was cleared up like ten posts ago

[CR91]

that was cleared up like ten posts ago

 

im always late to the party