Official Training Camp thread (mega merge)

[Jason_]

Analysis  Werner Strengths

 

Flexible athlete with the natural bend to dip and contort his body to get under or around blocks. Shows excellent snap anticipation and fires out of his stance. Projects as a strong-side 4-3 end who can play the run well and get pressure on the quarterback. Possesses good quickness off the snap for his size and flashes some shimmy to get the inside lane. Finds the ball well and uses active hands to rip past tackles after initial contact. Brings power to his punch, can bull his man toward the quarterback with leverage. Swallows running backs after shedding his man in the run game, has athleticism to make tackles in space. Stacks and sheds well, sets the edge and works off blocks to make stops in the run game. Times jumps well to knock down passes if unable to get to the quarterback, also looks comfortable making plays in coverage (18 career passes defended).

 

I understand your point about stopping the run and Walden being more experienced but one of Werner's strengths is stopping the run. For all we know Werner could be a better run stopper then Walden. What if teams decide to throw on 1st and 2nd downs? Will be at a disadvantage because Walden isn't a good pass rusher and QB's will have a clean pocket. Which brings me back to the point i made about Kerrigan. Kerrigan isn't your typical strongside linebacker but he made the switch because of Orakpo. Sometimes both the Lolb and the Rolb rush at the same time, the Steerlers dd it with Harrison and Woodley, Ravens with Kruger and Suggs. We can do the same with Mathis and Werner.

 

The only  reason i can think of Walden starting is Grigson trying to save face of signing him to so much money. From a football perspective it makes absolutely no sense at all of Walden starting, Werner is clearly the more talented player. Every gm makes a mistake or two it happens sometimes. If the coach is saying Werner playing strongside it could change in the future, let's hope the future is September 8th vs the Raiders.

 

 

Who the "starter" is really isn't going to matter because I expect to see a lot of rotation and variation to the defensive fronts.  On run downs, I wouldn't be surprised to see Walden at SOLB with Werner at ROLB because Werner should prove to be better than Mathis against the run.  On passing downs, I would expect to see Werner and Mathis on the field together.  I really doubt it matters what side they line up on because they both have experience rushing from both sides (Werner rushed from both sides at FSU).  

 

Bottom line, there's no need to get bent out of shape over who winds up named as a "starter" because I'm sure the coaches will put the best players on the field dependent on the specific game time situation. 

[Iron Colt]

Angerer and Carter will be cut I believe. More Polian cast offs.

[SteelCityColt]

Angerer and Carter will be cut I believe. More Polian cast offs.

 

Carter yes, we've not hear enough good reports from TC to make it sounds like he's done enough. Angerer I don't know, I think they quite like him but the injury concern hasn't gone away. and our best depth/competition is at ILB IMO.

[AntonMcG]

Carter yes, we've not hear enough good reports from TC to make it sounds like he's done enough. Angerer I don't know, I think they quite like him but the injury concern hasn't gone away. and our best depth/competition is at ILB IMO.

 

Really?

 

 

Couldn't agree less.

[SteelCityColt]

Really?

 

 

Couldn't agree less.

 

Maybe more so in terms of sheer quantity than plain quality. I guess what I'm saying is if the 2 starters went down the drop off wouldn't be as bad as say the 2 starting CBs going down. In my opinion only of course. 

[Smonroe]

Maybe more so in terms of sheer quantity than plain quality. I guess what I'm saying is if the 2 starters went down the drop off wouldn't be as bad as say the 2 starting CBs going down. In my opinion only of course.

I agree with you. Same for the D line, a lot of the same types of talent.

Wish we could say that about the O line and S.

[AntonMcG]

Maybe more so in terms of sheer quantity than plain quality. I guess what I'm saying is if the 2 starters went down the drop off wouldn't be as bad as say the 2 starting CBs going down. In my opinion only of course. 

 

I dunno... we have very much specialist players in the ILB position, no jack of all trades (bar maybe Freeman). If Conner goes down for example, our run defense is hurt, and could not be readily replaced by Angerer who specializes in coverage and open field tackling.

 

The fascination with McNary also puzzles me, it is more to do with some patriotic affinity than based on his ability, of which we know little.

 

Realistically, we have 4 ILB's with proven experience... and if any of them goes down, we could be in trouble.

[SteelCityColt]

I dunno... we have very much specialist players in the ILB position, no jack of all trades (bar maybe Freeman). If Conner goes down for example, our run defense is hurt, and could not be readily replaced by Angerer who specializes in coverage and open field tackling.

 

The fascination with McNary also puzzles me, it is more to do with some patriotic affinity than based on his ability, of which we know little.

 

Realistically, we have 4 ILB's with proven experience... and if any of them goes down, we could be in trouble.

 

I don't agree with some of your assessment of where people's strengths lie (I wouldn't rate Freeman quite as a jack of trades for one), but still if you say the starters are Freeman and Conner, then Angerer and Sheppard as backups are better in my eyes than say Vaughan and Butler or ....... no I can't quite bring myself to think about the 2nd team O line .

 

Point taken if one of the 4 goes down then then 5th ILB might be an issue but could argue this for a few positions that the backup's backup ain't too great. 

 

McNary is a good "story" but if the guy can play then all the better. I thought however he played OLB? 

[AntonMcG]

I don't agree with some of your assessment of where people's strengths lie (I wouldn't rate Freeman quite as a jack of trades for one), but still if you say the starters are Freeman and Conner, then Angerer and Sheppard as backups are better in my eyes than say Vaughan and Butler or ....... no I can't quite bring myself to think about the 2nd team O line .

 

Point taken if one of the 4 goes down then then 5th ILB might be an issue but could argue this for a few positions that the backup's backup ain't too great. 

 

McNary is a good "story" but if the guy can play then all the better. I thought however he played OLB? 

 

No Freeman is not great at everything, but he a servicable enough that he can be a 3-down linebacker, the same cannot be said for any of our other ILBs. That's the problem... do you want Angerer in against the run? Do you want Conner in nickel formations?

 

Versatility provides depth almost as well as extra players do, unfortunately, we have specialized players at ILB that lack versatility, which hinders depth.

 

McNary was projected to play ILB at the pro-level, and that seems to be the case so far judging by his TC reps.

[SteelCityColt]

No Freeman is not great at everything, but he a servicable enough that he can be a 3-down linebacker, the same cannot be said for any of our other ILBs. That's the problem... do you want Angerer in against the run? Do you want Conner in nickel formations?

 

Versatility provides depth almost as well as extra players do, unfortunately, we have specialized players at ILB that lack versatility, which hinders depth.

 

McNary was projected to play ILB at the pro-level, and that seems to be the case so far judging by his TC reps.

 

Good points but still I believe in terms of depth we are weaker in other areas. 

 

Regards the Nickel, wouldn't we drop an ILB anyway in Nickel situations? 

[AntonMcG]

Good points but still I believe in terms of depth we are weaker in other areas. 

 

Regards the Nickel, wouldn't we drop an ILB anyway in Nickel situations? 

 

Yeah most of the time, I am saying if injuries meant you had to put a run-stuffing ILB into coverage due to injuries, simply an example.

 

The group should be servicable, I just would have liked to have seen a quality 3-down LB brought in.

[SteelCityColt]

Yeah most of the time, I am saying if injuries meant you had to put a run-stuffing ILB into coverage due to injuries, simply an example.

 

The group should be servicable, I just would have liked to have seen a quality 3-down LB brought in.

 

If only, the 49er's don't know how lucky they are to have not one but 2 outstanding ILBs. 

 

What are your thoughts on the (reported) decline of importance of the ILB/MLB position?

[AntonMcG]

If only, the 49er's don't know how lucky they are to have not one but 2 outstanding ILBs. 

 

What are your thoughts on the (reported) decline of importance of the ILB/MLB position?

 

I don't know if it is so much the position that is in decline, moreso than the prototypical skillset associated with it throughout the years. The great MLB's of yesteryear were hard-nosed run stuffers who let nothing come down the middle and could get from sideline to sideline to make sure the ball never got the the third-level.

 

So now, in a pass-first league, and with the increased regularity of the no huddle, and offenses being built to exploit mismatches, ILBs need to be much more well-rounded. Bowman and Willis for example, as both excellant in coverage, as well as being great run stuffers, it makes it difficult for Offensive Co-Ordinators to scheme against the 49'ers defense, and means their base defense can handle different offensive looks.

 

Versatility is now the key element of the position, which is why I am not overly fussed on our current group, who are specialists.

[SteelCityColt]

I don't know if it is so much the position that is in decline, moreso than the prototypical skillset associated with it throughout the years. The great MLB's of yesteryear were hard-nosed run stuffers who let nothing come down the middle and could get from sideline to sideline to make sure the ball never got the the third-level.

 

So now, in a pass-first league, and with the increased regularity of the no huddle, and offenses being built to exploit mismatches, ILBs need to be much more well-rounded. Bowman and Willis for example, as both excellant in coverage, as well as being great run stuffers, it makes it difficult for Offensive Co-Ordinators to scheme against the 49'ers defense, and means their base defense can handle different offensive looks.

 

Versatility is now the key element of the position, which is why I am not overly fussed on our current group, who are specialists.

 

This I do agree 100% on, but it seems if teams don't have the all rounder you describe they drop the the MLB/ILB out for a nickel back. I guess it's somewhat like RBs, the premier talent will still get drafted quite high (well in the 1st anyway), but the slightly lesser talented backs you might have been 1st rounders in days gone by are dropping down the boards because of how the game has evolved.

 

I would love if I had the time, the patience and the ability to chart the average draft position of each playing position over the years to see which have gone up and down in importance. 

[AntonMcG]

This I do agree 100% on, but it seems if teams don't have the all rounder you describe they drop the the MLB/ILB out for a nickel back. I guess it's somewhat like RBs, the premier talent will still get drafted quite high (well in the 1st anyway), but the slightly lesser talented backs you might have been 1st rounders in days gone by are dropping down the boards because of how the game has evolved.

 

I would love if I had the time, the patience and the ability to chart the average draft position of each playing position over the years to see which have gone up and down in importance. 

 

The problem with that is a hurry-up/no-huddle offense that does not let you get your base personnel off the field.

[SteelCityColt]

The problem with that is a hurry-up/no-huddle offense that does not let you get your base personnel off the field.

 

Depends, are we talking running a no-huddle from the get go or just in specific game situations? Still point well made, but that's all party of the "chess match" surely?

[AntonMcG]

Depends, are we talking running a no-huddle from the get go or just in specific game situations? Still point well made, but that's all party of the "chess match" surely?

 

Brady runs it constantly since Josh McDaniel's return. Falcons, Broncos, Steelers, Dolphins all use it regularly. It is clearly becoming a much more prominent part of the game... I think our offense is perfectly built for it and would love to see us becoming a no-huddle offense in the future.

 

Yes it will always be an issue for our defense when the opposing offense are in 2-minute drills, but it will become a much bigger problem if you want to go far in the play-offs, considering a lot of the best teams, with the best QBs, use the no-huddle constantly.

[AntonMcG]

And of course Chip Kelly's new Eagles offense.

[PrincetonTiger]

And of course Chip Kelly's new Eagles offense.

that is going to be hampered by the NFL

[AntonMcG]

that is going to be hampered by the NFL

 

To an extent maybe... Kelly has said himself it will not be overly detrimental. At the end of the day, even with ball placement etc. the offense still controls the clock.

[Dustin]

Previous thread: http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/19415-colts-training-camp-thread-84/

 

Practice is from 1:50 PM to 4:30 PM.

[PrincetonTiger]

Thanks

Practice is abou t to start

[Smonroe]

While we're waiting - Phil Richards tweeted a really great story about Pep this morning.  It links to the IndyStar, but I didn't see it on their website yet.

 

Look for it, Pep was a football brain from the start.

 

Edit:  Sorry, I didn't realize the story was a couple days old.  Still a good read.

 

http://www.indystar.com/article/20130803/SPORTS03/308030030/New-Colts-offensive-coordinator-Pep-Hamilton-excites-players-dynamic-attack-possibilities

[Dustin]

While we're waiting - Phil Richards tweeted a really great story about Pep this morning.  It links to the IndyStar, but I didn't see it on their website yet.

 

Look for it, Pep was a football brain from the start.

 

http://www.indystar.com/article/20130803/SPORTS03/308030030/New-Colts-offensive-coordinator-Pep-Hamilton-excites-players-dynamic-attack-possibilities

 

This one?

[Dustin]

‏@ColtsAuth_Kyle2m

Jeremy Kelley getting some early reps with the jugs machine.

[Dustin]

‏@gmbremer31s

Team in shells for this afternoon's workout. #ColtsCamp

[PrincetonTiger]

 

‏@ColtsAuth_Kyle2m

Jeremy Kelley getting some early reps with the jugs machine.

 

Good News I think

[Dustin]

@ColtsAuth_Kyle15s

Kerwynn Williams and Jabin Sambrano fielding kickoffs.

[Albaby]

 

‏@gmbremer31s

Team in shells for this afternoon's workout. #ColtsCamp

 

What does that mean?

[Dustin]

@ColtsAuth_Kyle29s

Lanear Sampson and LaVon Brazill fielding punts.

[Clem-Dog]

What does that mean?

Probably means they're either wearing helmets or they're being very cautious.

[PrincetonTiger]

What does that mean?

Helmet and Shoulder pads

 

No contact practice

[Dustin]

INDIANAPOLIS COLTS WAIVE LB-MONTE SIMMONS

[Albaby]

Helmet and Shoulder pads

 

No contact practice

Gotcha!

[Superman]

INDIANAPOLIS COLTS WAIVE LB-MONTE SIMMONS

 

Gonna bring in another receiver? Another safety?

[Dustin]

@mchappell511m

#colts have waived LB Monte Simmons. Won't be surprised if they've added a WR. But they also need help at LB. Harvey, Adongo have been out.

[CantBeStopped]

Whats wrong with adongo? I know its a long shot but i was pullin for him

[PrincetonTiger]

 

@mchappell511m

#colts have waived LB Monte Simmons. Won't be surprised if they've added a WR. But they also need help at LB. Harvey, Adongo have been out.

 

interesting info

 

Was it an injury waiver?

[PrincetonTiger]

Whats wrong with adongo? I know its a long shot but i was pullin for him

muscle strain I believe 

[Dustin]

‏@gmbremer4m

Greg Toler is at practice with a helmet. Usually an indication he plans to participate. #ColtsCamp