Freeney again a non factor

[IndyTrav]

He is just a complete non-factor.

Is he still hobbled by his injury? He seems healthy. Does he just not get the defense? Is he just no longer the player he was?

Whats the problem here?

He's played 4 full games. 1 sack. 3 tackles. 1 assist.

Hughes has been in 6 full games, and done pretty well for himself 3 sack.9tackles. 7 assist.

[PrincetonTiger]

DF gets all of the blocking attention wo Mathis present

[MTC]

I doubt we'll see him in a Colts uniform in 2013.

[Captain Americolt]

Your point? Yeah he's been pretty underwhelming. But he's not going anywhere this year..

[PrincetonTiger]

I doubt we'll see him in a Colts uniform in 2013.

agreed

[IndyTrav]

Your point? Yeah he's been pretty underwhelming. But he's not going anywhere this year..

Bitter?

Why is he not succeeding? Is it injury? Lack of positional knowledge? Not that talented? What is it?

[PrincetonTiger]

Bitter?

Why is he not succeeding? Is it injury? Lack of positional knowledge? Not that talented? What is it?

Focus of blocking

[IndyTrav]

Focus of blocking

The same focus Mathis got once Freeney went down, he had 5 sacks, and 11 tackles....

Every other premier pass rusher receives attention and still succeeds.

To me he is either severely limited due to his injury, or he can just not handle the new position......

[Andy]

He needs Mathis, that's it.

[Coltsman1788]

At this rate Freeney's best contribution will be when he comes of the books after this season and we use the cap space to bolster the team in other areas. Almost half the season is gone and he only has 1 sack and 3 tackles to show for himself. He is pretty much a non-factor on the field right now and I don't know if opposing offenses are losing much sleep game planning for him at this point. I used to think that his value was freeing up everyone else by drawing so much attention. Not so sure this is the case anymore.

[icf]

I doubt we'll see him in a Colts uniform in 2013.

Agree....I'd say with 99.99% certainty that he's not back next year. Way too much money at this point for too little production.

[dw49]

Just something to add to this. When you constantly take that speed rush around the corner , you will give up some runs around his side. He needs to at least pressure the QB a bit to justify that kind of play.

[Captain Americolt]

Bitter?

Why is he not succeeding? Is it injury? Lack of positional knowledge? Not that talented? What is it?

No dude i'm not bitter. I'm really dissappointed in him too.... but like I said.. he's not going anywhere this year......Sadly..

[dw49]

Agree....I'd say with 99.99% certainty that he's not back next year. Way too much money at this point for too little production.

I agree but there is no way Freeney will have a base salary of 14 mill ever again.

[oldunclemark]

He is just a complete non-factor.

Is he still hobbled by his injury? He seems healthy. Does he just not get the defense? Is he just no longer the player he was?

Whats the problem here?

He's played 4 full games. 1 sack. 3 tackles. 1 assist.

Hughes has been in 6 full games, and done pretty well for himself 3 sack.9tackles. 7 assist.

On Nevis sack, freeney was double-teamed...

He was blocked and chipped a lot..

He's a factor even wehn he doesnt make the tackle on reputation//..and we need him

[John Waylon]

Focus of blocking

He needs Mathis, that's it.

Ok, all well and good.

But what does that say about our scheme/other players tasked with pressuring the QB? I mean, I don't exactly think it's scientific, you can pressure the QB without a Robert Mathis. 31 other teams do it. People are still beating the "Give Hughes a chance!" drum to death, but even though he's been more effective this year than we're used to, he's still not making the world go round. I mean, you can't just chalk it up to no Mathis and go on, because that shouldn't at all be the case...

[deedub75]

No need making excuses for him. Right now I'd say Freeney's no better than Hughes this season. For someone making that kind of money he should be making some noise on the field. If his name wasn't brought up in these threads, I wouldn't even know Freeney was still on the team.

[Tark The Shark]

I bet it is a combination of injury, age, and learning a new position.

He doesn't seem to have the speed off the age like I have seen from him before.

Honestly, and sadly, I don't think he will be with the team after this year.

[Poster X]

Dwight Freeney's health has been a issue. He has been banged up all year with injuries to both his knee and ankle which certainly doesn't help when you are trying to play a new position.

[GoColts8818]

They mentioned on the radio side that Dwight Freeney's health has been a big issue. He has been banged up all year with different injuries to the knee and ankle which doesn't help when you are playing a new position.

I agree he's been playing on leg now because of lack of bodies. People can say what they will about him not producing but you know what the man is honestly giving us his body when we need him. That speaks for something. What disappointed me today was after two good games and getting free thanks in large part to the attention Freeney demands just by being out there Hughes was a non factor as well.

[chad72]

The glove dont fit with Freeney, IMO. We could use that money on top of the dead cap space money to really improve this team.

Free agency:

Get Terrance Knighton from the Jags. Overpay him if we need to.

Get Richard Seymour to go with it for DE and Matt Slauson of Jets for OG.

Then improve secondary with Keenan Lewis from Steelers, Cary Williams from Ravens and DeShean Goldson from 49ers (for Zbikowski).

Draft the rest, our team would be infinitely better, IMO.

[Nostrils]

On Nevis sack, freeney was double-teamed...

He was blocked and chipped a lot..

He's a factor even wehn he doesnt make the tackle on reputation//..and we need him

not even worth explaining, these guys are crazy...

[Nostrils]

I bet it is a combination of injury, age, and learning a new position.

He doesn't seem to have the speed off the age like I have seen from him before.

Honestly, and sadly, I don't think he will be with the team after this year.

I agree... but, he is playing it differently (obviously), I'd say more attention than ever to the run... doesn't seem to come off the edge as fast (even with his hand down, which it usually is) unless it's obvious passing down, and that seems suspect, just seems so obvious where opponent can prepare and look to run a screen or draw to counter that upfield rush... But i do notice, or at least in my opinion think I see him reading more post-snap, and when he is isn't doubled and in a 1 on 1 I see more bull rushes than ever before, (I'd think as a result to actually reading or having responsibility as opposed to just rushing upfield off the edge) and quite often I see where he is literally punking the tackle just pushing him back when bull rushing, but getting to the qb a step or two too late....

definitely think his worth isn't being shown like we are used to, but don't think he is that bad, not saying anyone said he is.... definitely come to terms tho it's time to part ways after season and get an actual 3-4 olb, where we feel confident with him in pass coverage as well

[Superman]

The same focus Mathis got once Freeney went down, he had 5 sacks, and 11 tackles....

Every other premier pass rusher receives attention and still succeeds.

To me he is either severely limited due to his injury, or he can just not handle the new position......

I think the injury has had him hobbled, but that wasn't the problem in this game (and really, not in the Browns game, either). The Titans, and the Browns before them, did a good job of neutralizing our pass rush, and that includes Freeney. I'm still re-watching the game, but they did a lot of different things to keep their quarterback upright. The one sack we got in the second half was a coverage sack.

It's not an issue of him moving around or coming from a two-point stance, nor is it his ability to get off blocks. He's not as explosive as we're used to, and that's partly the injury, but it's also a part of the position. Terrell Suggs isn't as explosive as Freeney in the Baltimore defense. I think the big problem is just that we haven't been solid at holding up the middle of the defense with any consistency, and so teams attack us in a way that takes Freeney out of the equation. And that's smart; it's what I would do if I were calling plays against our defense, and it's what several well-coached teams have down for many years. It's one of the biggest reasons the Saints beat us in the Super Bowl.

Mathis, on the other hand, was being used differently from Freeney, even when he was playing the rush linebacker role at times with Freeney out earlier this season. He was used in much more of a wildcard/joker role, like a Clay Mathews/Jarrett Johnson/Shaun Phillips amalgam. The play of Fili Moala and Cory Redding, along with Tevaseu and Antonio Johnson holding up the middle well enough, helped keep Mathis clean. While Pagano envisioned Freeney being the Terrell Suggs of our hybrid defense, Mathis fits the role much better, and showed that. And, I think Mathis is more explosive than Suggs, even in the hybrid role.

[NewColtsFan]

I suspect Superman's post is closer to reality than anyone else's here... but I'd like to offer some thoughts...

As an unofficial rule, whenever there are multiple explanations for why something is or isn't happening, unless one reason clearly and obviously jumps out, my rule of thumb is that there is probably some truth in all of the explanations being given/offered...

So, for Freeney... I suspect that... (not in any particular order)

-- His injury is still a factor...

-- He's still not 100% comfortable with the new position

-- He misses having Mathis on the other side getting attention

-- Offenses are still focused on him because, after all, he ***is*** Dwight Freeney

I suspect there's some degree of truth in all the above.....

Just some food for thought...

[Gavin]

The formula has always been the same and that is if you want to neutralize Freeney then run right at him and force him to make a tackle while his instincts think RUSH, really the decision to trade Freeny for a 5th round pick was a no brainer to some of us. Im still rooting for Freeney 100 percent but he doesn't seem 100 percent by any stretch. if Freeney was younger and was not in the last year of a huge deal there may be a point to keep him next season because given time I think he could develop the instincts a 3-4 OLB needs but unfortunately time was apparently not accounted for when the decision was made, Freeney could opt to restructure but why would he restructure this late in his career where he is asked to learn things for the first time besides just what he is great at?

[Tark The Shark]

I agree... but, he is playing it differently (obviously), I'd say more attention than ever to the run... doesn't seem to come off the edge as fast (even with his hand down, which it usually is) unless it's obvious passing down, and that seems suspect, just seems so obvious where opponent can prepare and look to run a screen or draw to counter that upfield rush... But i do notice, or at least in my opinion think I see him reading more post-snap, and when he is isn't doubled and in a 1 on 1 I see more bull rushes than ever before, (I'd think as a result to actually reading or having responsibility as opposed to just rushing upfield off the edge) and quite often I see where he is literally punking the tackle just pushing him back when bull rushing, but getting to the qb a step or two too late....

definitely think his worth isn't being shown like we are used to, but don't think he is that bad, not saying anyone said he is.... definitely come to terms tho it's time to part ways after season and get an actual 3-4 olb, where we feel confident with him in pass coverage as well

Absolutely.

Freeney was always successful as a 4-3 DE because he could do a lot of things from that position.

I have yet to even see him put on his patented spin move and even when Mathis was in the game, Freeney seemed a non-factor.

Right now, I would put Hughes in Freeney's spot when Mathis is back in the lineup. Freeney can sub in cause he just isn't cutting it so far.

[Old Colt]

If you pay any attention to the coaching staff and others that know, Freeney has been playing for weeks on one good leg. Most players wouldn't have been playing at all. As long as he is on the Filed, Teams still have to account for him and game plan for him and with the new CBA that is that much time they can't be focusing on other areas. If he can get enouh time to get healthy or close he will be back to form.

[BProland85]

He's what I predicted this year. I predicted he'd struggle in a 3-4 and so far he has.

We need to let him go after this year and not look back. Maybe if he succeeds elsewhere on a 4-3 team, we get a 3rd round compensatory pick for him.

Then in the 2012 draft we need to get another DE/OLB. Hopefully Bjoern Werner is there. If not, dont reach for a DE/OLB. Just get one in round 3 or 4.

[jskinnz]

He is just a complete non-factor.

Is he still hobbled by his injury? He seems healthy. Does he just not get the defense? Is he just no longer the player he was?

Whats the problem here?

He's played 4 full games. 1 sack. 3 tackles. 1 assist.

Hughes has been in 6 full games, and done pretty well for himself 3 sack.9tackles. 7 assist.

Good to see you are at least consistent with this. Great win. Luck is the real deal. Lot's of hope for the future between him and other picks but yet another thread regarding Freeney being overhyped, overpaid and underperforming.

[IndyTrav]

Good to see you are at least consistent with this. Great win. Luck is the real deal. Lot's of hope for the future between him and other picks but yet another thread regarding Freeney being overhyped, overpaid and underperforming.

As we all know, I didn't expect much.

But even I am completely surprised by his lack of importance.

[oldunclemark]

Freeney's been hurt all year...was hurt in the oener againthe Bears...

Non-factor..compared to his rep and his check...sure...

But he's out there..he's drawing an extra blocker....and we're shorthanded

[lollygagger8]

I think when Mathis and Chapman are in, it'll help Freeney a bit. Sadly enough though, after this year, the $14M expirement will be over.

[ericnan]

....just a thought here. I noticed a post or two that suggested playing Hughes instead of Freeney, here is my take on that. Freeney is making a TON more money than Hughes, and I think everyone is pretty confident Dwight will not be back next year, not at his asking price if at all. So, from our teams point of view, while Freeney is getting paid that ton of money, we use him, all that we can, while our young Jerry Hughes has to watch a bit, then be hungry when he gets to play. Also, he(Hughes) is not getting beat up by the season. Is it possible next year we see Mathis and Hughes every down. Hughes will be much more educated, conditioned, and most likely not coming off of an injury because he will have been used sparingly this year. In short, wear out the old horse(since we ARE making payments on it) before letting loose the new horse. Please understand that I am not putting Freeney down. It's been good havin' him here, but it is what it is, and most of us agree he will not be back next year as a Colt. If we play Dwight, and he suffers a serious injury(I hope this is not the case), it will not impact us next year. If we played Hughes, and he gets a serious injury, we'll have serious concerns about our OLB's next year. I'm just throwin' my spin out there. ......discuss.....

[jskinnz]

As we all know, I didn't expect much.

But even I am completely surprised by his lack of importance.

Keep beating the horse though. It is still breathing just a little so a few more shots ought to kill it all together.

[Mouthfire]

I really hate to say it (cause I love Freeney), but he hasn't been a consistent factor in a reeaally long time. I can't even remember the last time he was able to stay healthy and stay in the game consistently.

[oldunclemark]

....just a thought here. I noticed a post or two that suggested playing Hughes instead of Freeney, here is my take on that. Freeney is making a TON more money than Hughes, and I think everyone is pretty confident Dwight will not be back next year, not at his asking price if at all. So, from our teams point of view, while Freeney is getting paid that ton of money, we use him, all that we can, while our young Jerry Hughes has to watch a bit, then be hungry when he gets to play. Also, he(Hughes) is not getting beat up by the season. Is it possible next year we see Mathis and Hughes every down. Hughes will be much more educated, conditioned, and most likely not coming off of an injury because he will have been used sparingly this year. In short, wear out the old horse(since we ARE making payments on it) before letting loose the new horse. Please understand that I am not putting Freeney down. It's been good havin' him here, but it is what it is, and most of us agree he will not be back next year as a Colt. If we play Dwight, and he suffers a serious injury(I hope this is not the case), it will not impact us next year. If we played Hughes, and he gets a serious injury, we'll have serious concerns about our OLB's next year. I'm just throwin' my spin out there. ......discuss.....

Hughes is still struggling. He's been overpowered at the point of attack and he cant bull rush like Freeney

I like him in pass rush situations but you he cant betsa most tackles..he has to run around and stunt.

With that said...he makes open field plays with speed...He's still a work in progress...I like his potential

[IndyTrav]

Keep beating the horse though. It is still breathing just a little so a few more shots ought to kill it all together.

Your right. What I should do is resurrect about 15 dead threads.

Forums love that.

Heaven forbid we discuss players impacts.

[Pombi9]

He is just a complete non-factor.

Is he still hobbled by his injury? He seems healthy. Does he just not get the defense? Is he just no longer the player he was?

Whats the problem here?

He's played 4 full games. 1 sack. 3 tackles. 1 assist.

Hughes has been in 6 full games, and done pretty well for himself 3 sack.9tackles. 7 assist.

Has Freeney ever been successful without Mathis?

Also you started this exact same thread except with Garcon earlier, and we later found out he tore a tendon in his foot and your ramblings about his insignificant "toe" injury could not have been farther from the truth.

So now your trying it with Freeney?

[Coltsagent]

Do you guys watch Hughes? He gives up on plays, or does not go to the whistle. Two plays come to mind....he has backside responsibility and rushes up field and gets washed and kind of gives up on the play, the running back cuts it back his way and he has lost contain and the back slips right under him. Mathis would have come back and not given up once the play started away from him. The other play was where both Hughes and Freeney were chasing down the QB that had gotten out of the pocket, Freeney had to almost push Hughes out of the way b/c Hughes starting jogging b/c probably thought could not catch the QB.

I just dont see the fight until the end with Hughes.