Arians is probably a better HC than OC. Luck needs a system that fits him

[GoodLuck]

Bootlegs, short quick passes to get a rhythm, then hit them deep. Arians seems to get cred for working w/ Manning, but it wasn't like Peyton was running Arians offense all these yrs.

The thing I notice about the skins and rg3 is that they run the same plays over and over. Granted, it's all out of that option crap, but they have built a system for their qb. THey haven't tried to force their QB to fit a system and style he's not familiar w/.

Should have hired a West Coast OC from jump. Y Banana to the playoffs.

[NewEra]

Exactly, just cause he can retain the whole play book doesn't mean we have to throw the whole darn thing at him. The skins made their offense more qb and rookie friendly. I think Arians needs to get luck comfortable and get him in a rhythm.

[GoodLuck]

Reggie hinted at simplifying things after the Packers game. He thought they were throwing too much at Luck and said he thought they could be even better if things were simpler.

Also think about the other WRs. They have to learn this as well. I heard one of the broadcasters complain that TY didn't sit in a zone for Luck. I doubt he sat in many zones at FIU or wherever he went. he just outran everyone.

[21isSuperman]

I think the comfort and rhythm will come with time. A lot of what the Redskins are doing is from Baylor's playbook. But Baylor's playbook is a college playbook and not a pro playbook, and that's for a reason. The college game is becoming more and more about the shotgun, spreading your WRs, stretching the defense, and having a mobile QB. Defenses are less disciplined, so offenses can get away with that in college. The NFL is a different story. It's like Newton last year. He exploded onto the scene and made it look easy. A lot of what the Panthers did last year was option, deep throws, and shotgun. This year, defenses have figured them out and the Panthers' offense isn't doing anywhere near as well as it was last year. I expect the same thing with the current Skins offense. If they stay with it and don't change, they won't do well.

I like how we are developing Luck. Let him get used to running pro plays, reading pro defenses, making pro throws, etc. and then once he is comfortable, let him have more of a say as to what kinds of protection we use, what kind of routes the receivers run, etc.

[vinatierifan4]

I'm sure the offense is pretty complex, but I'm also sure the coaches who actually know the players more than we do are doing the right thing..

[Nobody]

I honestly think that we need to adapt a lot from the Skins playbook.

[jbaron04]

You teach the qb a play book rg3 system is very simply an next year will struggle wants teams get film on him the bile print is not out on him yet

[NewEra]

You teach the qb a play book rg3 system is very simply an next year will struggle wants teams get film on him the bile print is not out on him yet

Yeah rg3 will be in newtons shoes come next year. They both remind me of another Vick. But who knows. At least rg3's not a nutcase like cam.

[John Dee]

I honestly think that we need to adapt a lot from the Skins playbook.

I agree with this.. Shanny has combined what plays RG3 had success with at Baylor and mixed it with his O. Really smart.

That said, Luck is excelling in no huddle... and struggling slowing it down?

Turn him loose...

[HtownColt]

option based offenses don't last long in the NFL. the offense Luck is running will thrive once its mastered.

[NewEra]

He looks awesome in the two minute drill and running the no huddle. Want to see more of that. He needs to start running plays at the line also, audibles, etc...

[luckyblue]

rg3 is just another Micheal Vick, has Vick ever gone to the Superbowl, NO WAY! And rg3 wont be any different in that respect! Its the polished pocket passers like Peyton and Eli, and Brady and Brees that go to Superbowls!!! I think before Andrew is threw playing he will have taken the Colts to several Superbowls, just like the great pocket passers before him!

[GrizzColt]

I want to like RG3, but when he brags on his "track speed" at the presser, I don't like that. But hey, if he can take the lick and keep on ticking, that's on him.

[John Dee]

I want to like RG3, but when he brags on his "track speed" at the presser, I don't like that. But hey, if he can take the lick and keep on ticking, that's on him.

He also "fancied" himself as Manning, Brady, and Rodgers.... controlling the LOS pre snap...

Only difference is RG, you have the top running game in the NFL.... He will learn soon enough.

[NewEra]

rg3 is just another Micheal Vick, has Vick ever gone to the Superbowl, NO WAY! And rg3 wont be any different in that respect! Its the polished pocket passers like Peyton and Eli, and Brady and Brees that go to Superbowls!!! I think before Andrew is threw playing he will have taken the Colts to several Superbowls, just like the great pocket passers before him!

I keep saying the same thing. Vick 2.0, no thanks

[NewColtsFan]

I think it's been posted here that RG3 has the highest number of pass plays where the pass travels 0-5 yards from scrimmage. The rest is YAC.

So, that's a rookie QB friendly system. Also, the Skins have literally pulled Griffin's favorite plays from the Baylor playbook to increase his comfort level.

So, props to Washington for trying to keep things system friendly for RG3.

And there are parts of the Colts offense which I don't find as rookie QB friendly.

But, as for Arians being a better HC than OC? Come on now, let's not get carried away.

Arians has been a HC for 3 games. He's been an NFL OC for what, a decade? Longer?

You can still make your point without mixing in silly comments like that.

Would I like a more user friendly system? You bet! Would I like a better OL? You bet! And a better running game too!

And a better defense too! Lots of things would help. We only have control over so much. So, yes, I wish Arians had installed some plays that were a little more user friendly, system friendly. Maybe some stuff will show up as the season unfolds.

Then again...... maybe not...

[ColtsFTW]

I like how we are developing Luck. Let him get used to running pro plays, reading pro defenses, making pro throws, etc. and then once he is comfortable, let him have more of a say as to what kinds of protection we use, what kind of routes the receivers run, etc.

I agree. We may be throwing him into the fire early but it will be better for him in the long run instead of babying him with a college offense. Its like the argument of letting a QB sit and learn behind another QB when hes really gonna learn faster by just playing.

[NewEra]

I think it's been posted here that RG3 has the highest number of pass plays where the pass travels 0-5 yards from scrimmage. The rest is YAC.

So, that's a rookie QB friendly system. Also, the Skins have literally pulled Griffin's favorite plays from the Baylor playbook to increase his comfort level.

So, props to Washington for trying to keep things system friendly for RG3.

And there are parts of the Colts offense which I don't find as rookie QB friendly.

But, as for Arians being a better HC than OC? Come on now, let's not get carried away.

Arians has been a HC for 3 games. He's been an NFL OC for what, a decade? Longer?

You can still make your point without mixing in silly comments like that.

Would I like a more user friendly system? You bet! Would I like a better OL? You bet! And a better running game too!

And a better defense too! Lots of things would help. We only have control over so much. So, yes, I wish Arians had installed some plays that were a little more user friendly, system friendly. Maybe some stuff will show up as the season unfolds.

Then again...... maybe not...

This man knows what he's talking about! Ran out of likes.

[krunk]

rg3 is just another Micheal Vick, has Vick ever gone to the Superbowl, NO WAY! And rg3 wont be any different in that respect! Its the polished pocket passers like Peyton and Eli, and Brady and Brees that go to Superbowls!!! I think before Andrew is threw playing he will have taken the Colts to several Superbowls, just like the great pocket passers before him!

RG3 would excel in an offense that didn't ask him to option as well. I'm sorry, but he is way more accurate than Luck. He would have no problems in a traditional offense. If the Redskins got into a game where they had to just do conventional passing, RG3 would be fine. He's much better than Vick. If you had said he reminds you of Randall Cunningham and for that reason you think he may not go to the Superbowl, then I could see your point. A comparison to Vick is not the same other than the fact that they can both run. RG3 understands defenses at this point in his career much better than Vick. He is a better passer than Vick, and unlike Vick he knows when to run instead of randomly taking off just because he believes he can beat everyone in a foot race.

[CjMcGirt23]

I was thinking about this yesterday and btw Reggie didn't say they need to make things simpler. He said if things were simpler he'd be excelling right now. I was thinking yesterday about how we are throwing so much at Luck this year, it's sorta like his somphomore year right now. They always say QB's have a sophomore slump because OC's throw so much at them from 1st to 2nd year, simple to complex. So in a way Luck is having his sophomore slump right now. He's having to deal with so much that next year in his sophomore season, he should light it up because he won't be learning much else because he will know most of, if not all, the playbook. So I have no problem with Luck having so much on his plate because it's only gonna benefit in the future.

[ColtsBlueFL]

RG is smarter and less all about himself vs. Vick and (especially) Cam. RG will hit some problem times, but it won't get him down (for too long) and he'll adapt and get through. I'm still extremely happy with our franchise QB pick though.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Each of these 5 rookie QB's will have some more issues pop when teams get more film on them and larger books of work when it comes to the tendencies of the offensive coordinator.

It's quite clear Shanahan has done a better job of putting RG3 in a better position than Arians has Luck to succeed.

[cbear]

We all knew they were going to throw Luck into the deep end of the pool and I don't recall many people having a grip about that. I'm not sure what folks were expecting, but he's obivously going to struggle more than the guy that gets to splash around in the shallow end for a while. RG3 will not be able to run the Baylor offense forever. He will have to learn to be a pocket passer and throw the ball down the field much more.

Bottom line, I still think it's for the best and in the long run Luck will be better for it. Who cares what the results are after six games.

[BOTT]

this is hilarious. it's scary what you guys would have been saying about tom moore in 1998......

[BleedBlu8792]

We all knew they were going to throw Luck into the deep end of the pool and I don't recall many people having a grip about that. I'm not sure what folks were expecting, but he's obivously going to struggle more than the guy that gets to splash around in the shallow end for a while. RG3 will not be able to run the Baylor offense forever. He will have to learn to be a pocket passer and throw the ball down the field much more.

Bottom line, I still think it's for the best and in the long run Luck will be better for it. Who cares what the results are after six games.

The guy threw for 4700 yards in that offense. Why would you NOT want running a system like that? He has the receivers AND running game to spread defenses out like he did at Baylor, but in all actuality the Shanahan's have toned that back and are having him throw more low risk passes. How in the world can you bash a QB, which I have seen in other threads, for taking what the defense is giving him. Its smart football PERIOD and a philosophy that I wish Arians would recognize and use with Luck.

There is absolutely no reason, right now, to have passing tree that is as deep as the one that Arians is running. He's putting Luck into a lot of high pressure/high risk situations that Luck doesn't need to be in, in terms of plays taking way to long to develop. This isn't to say that Luck hasn't had his share of problems either but its impressive how he's handled it and made the most of it.

Simplicity, much like a good portion of last weeks game, can go a LONG way for Luck right now. From a skillset perspective he doesn't really have much to prove because he's shown there isn't much that he's lacking, but that doesn't mean the game needs to be made harder than what it already is for him.

[dw49]

Each of these 5 rookie QB's will have some more issues pop when teams get more film on them and larger books of work when it comes to the tendencies of the offensive coordinator.

It's quite clear Shanahan has done a better job of putting RG3 in a better position than Arians has Luck to succeed.

Don't you think it's a little bit the fact that every time RG3 hands the ball of it's 5+ yards . That kind of helps that option .. play action college stuff the Redskins are doing with RG3. If the Colts get 6 yards on a 1st down un , it's almost a disadvantage as the next run loses a yard and now Luck has to complete a 3rd down pass to keep thendrive going. Other than the last (Cleveland) game , that has been the story.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Don't you think it's a little bit the fact that every time RG3 hands the ball of it's 5+ yards . That kind of helps that option .. play action college stuff the Redskins are doing with RG3. If the Colts get 6 yards on a 1st down un , it's almost a disadvantage as the next run loses a yard and now Luck has to complete a 3rd down pass to keep thendrive going. Other than the last (Cleveland) game , that has been the story.

That still goes to Shanahan putting RG3 in a better situation. He has a history of getting yards out of unheralded running backs. That goes to scheme. Sure it helps. How could it not.

I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that if Pagano had hired a coach with ties to the WCO that Luck would be in a better spot to succeed. His accuracy has been a bit disappointing for one thing, but I don't think Arians is doing him any favors. The two teams with the highest AIR yards(NYJ/IND), also have the two least accurate passes based on completion %. Maybe that is a coincidence. Maybe it isn't.

The Browns lead the NFL in YAC, The Patriots & Packers are 2nd & 3rd, those two quarterbacks are constantly hitting wide open receivers for the most part. They are also two outstanding quarterbacks, but.

I believe it was the opening play last Sunday. Some with it DVR'd or access to replay can confirm, but I know it was the opening drive but I want to say the opening play. Luck hits Wayne where Wayne has to reach behind him for the pass. If the ball had the same location on the otherside of his body, then it Wayne had some room to run after the catch.

The running game certainly helps, and there are various schemes that help teams set up the running game. Two of your top 5 rushing attacks based on yards employ basically the same scheme (Washington/Houston). Arian Foster is a horse but wasn't he undrafted? Morris has had a great year so far and he was a 6th rounder. Terrell Davis with Shanahan in Denver, another late round steal. I'm not taking anything away from these backs but the scheme has a lot to do with it.

[Flash7]

Look at it this way. Everyone know so that we are rebuilding/reloading. Coming into the season we didn't expect to have a shot at the post season and realistically, we still don't expect to have one. In a rebuilding/reloading year, should we worry about Andrew Luck's stats, or should we worry about his progress?

It's clear that he's already demonstrating a very good understanding of this offense. It's not a rookie friendly offense, but he's only a rookie for this year. Imagine what the offense would be like once he masters it and gets his timing down. It would be a high flying, high scoring offense that takes shots downfield. Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, and Philips Rivers Play in systems which a deep passing attack and they're doing just fine.

I don't care that RGIII has better stats this year. That offense is not sustainable and he's eventually going to have to throw downfield more often to stay successful. So in essence, RGIII will have to continue learning his offense while it evolves asLuck has his offense mastered.

[pmoney1832]

this is hilarious. it's scary what you guys would have been saying about tom moore in 1998......

couldn't agree more.

[RGIII]

rg3 is just another Micheal Vick, has Vick ever gone to the Superbowl, NO WAY! And rg3 wont be any different in that respect! Its the polished pocket passers like Peyton and Eli, and Brady and Brees that go to Superbowls!!! I think before Andrew is threw playing he will have taken the Colts to several Superbowls, just like the great pocket passers before him!

There are only two things Vick and RGIII have in common. One of them is speed and the other has nothing to do with football or anything else, really. Griffin is a more polished player now than Vick ever was.

You teach the qb a play book rg3 system is very simply an next year will struggle wants teams get film on him the bile print is not out on him yet

Teams have 7 weeks of game footage on this offense. No one has even come close to stopping it. Cam Newton's production started to tail off after 2 weeks and much of his production as a rookie came in garbage time against prevent defenses.

I saw more than a few Panthers games in 2011 and it's really a night and day difference from what the Skins are doing. Our coaching staff took what Griffin did in college and integrated it into a true pro-style offense. We will give you more looks and do more things than anything in Chud's playbook and Griffin's level of execution is worlds better than Cam's. He's faster, he's more decisive, he's more accurate, he has better field vision, and he doesn't come with the crappy attitude.

Don't you think it's a little bit the fact that every time RG3 hands the ball of it's 5+ yards . That kind of helps that option .. play action college stuff the Redskins are doing with RG3. If the Colts get 6 yards on a 1st down un , it's almost a disadvantage as the next run loses a yard and now Luck has to complete a 3rd down pass to keep thendrive going. Other than the last (Cleveland) game , that has been the story.

We don't actually pick up 5+ yards consistently. The reality is that Alfred Morris doesn't often have that much space with our run blocking. What he does have going for him is extreme lower body strength that enables him to churn out additional yards after contact that he has no business getting. We also tend to get very good blocking from our skill position players (backs, receivers, and TEs), which has helped both Morris and Griffin tremendously in springing a few big runs here and there.

A successful running game isn't about getting 4 or more yards on a carry, it's about rarely getting less than 2 or 3 yards and consistently improving your down and distance situations.

[GoColts8818]

Bootlegs, short quick passes to get a rhythm, then hit them deep. Arians seems to get cred for working w/ Manning, but it wasn't like Peyton was running Arians offense all these yrs.

The thing I notice about the skins and rg3 is that they run the same plays over and over. Granted, it's all out of that option crap, but they have built a system for their qb. THey haven't tried to force their QB to fit a system and style he's not familiar w/.

Should have hired a West Coast OC from jump. Y Banana to the playoffs.

He also gets it for working with Big Ben and being the OC or QB coach (can't remember which he was) in Cleveland that groomed Kelly Holcomb who got the Browns to the playoffs. His track record with QBs is a good one and extends beyond Peyton. Also if he was the HC he would hire an OC that would run his system because it's what he believes in.

Personally I think if you truly have a QB who is as good as Luck is supposed to be what type of system you run shouldn't really matter. They will pick up your system and be good in it. The Colts didn't run the same system here when Peyton got here than Tennessee used and he turned out just fine. Yes there was a learning curve and frankly that system never stopped changing but there is going to be a learning curve for Luck too and it's going to last more than six games. Heck he's not the only one who has a learning curve going on it's most of the skill poistion players on offense. This s going to take some time for it to become a well oiled machine.

Look at it his way by this point in his rookie season Peyton had thrown 14 INTs and only 6 TDs and the Colts had only won one game. If the internet forums had been around then people would be ready to run Peyton out of town right now. Luck and the Colts have already equaled the win total from all Manning's rookie year and have surpassed last year's total. Luck's numbers stack up very well when you compare them to other recent rookies. He's fine. The only way he looks kinda bad is if you compare him to Peyton Manning right now which isn't fair or you compare him to RG3 and frankly RG3 is off to the best start of a rookie career any rookie QB has had. It's hardly the norm so you can't really say Luck isn't meeting expectations by not matching him. I've said before we need to be less worried about what other QBs are doing and just watching Luck to see if he's the one and early signs point to yes.

He'll figure out Arians system just give it time and stop expecting him to be Peyton Manning of the last five years right now. That's unrealistic expectations for any rookie QB even RG3 who is playing so well right now.

[GoColts8818]

I think the comfort and rhythm will come with time. A lot of what the Redskins are doing is from Baylor's playbook. But Baylor's playbook is a college playbook and not a pro playbook, and that's for a reason. The college game is becoming more and more about the shotgun, spreading your WRs, stretching the defense, and having a mobile QB. Defenses are less disciplined, so offenses can get away with that in college. The NFL is a different story. It's like Newton last year. He exploded onto the scene and made it look easy. A lot of what the Panthers did last year was option, deep throws, and shotgun. This year, defenses have figured them out and the Panthers' offense isn't doing anywhere near as well as it was last year. I expect the same thing with the current Skins offense. If they stay with it and don't change, they won't do well.

I like how we are developing Luck. Let him get used to running pro plays, reading pro defenses, making pro throws, etc. and then once he is comfortable, let him have more of a say as to what kinds of protection we use, what kind of routes the receivers run, etc.

I agree. I also think it's important to point out it takes time for the rest of the league to get tape and study what rookies do. Remember Painter looked really good his first few starts and then after about the fifth one teams got tape on him and figured out how to attack him. I am not saying RG3 will be Painter by any means but you often see rookies make a big impact right away and then teams figure them out and they go away towards the end of the year and into their second seasons. Frankly to me that's the real test with a rookie to know if you have something special. Does he get better his second year after the league has had time to figure him out. If he does then you probably have something pretty special in a player. This Luck vs RG3 debate is not going to be settled this year and it's sure as heck not going to be settled six weeks into the season.

[wig]

Patience. They are giving him more because he can handle more, which will pay dividends in the future.

[Vance]

Anybody who STILL SAYS Griffin is Vick or Cam 2.0 is chugging some serious haterade. The guy is extremely accurate, is clutch, and puts his team CONSTANTLY in position to win games. It's like he's doing all he can to win and the rest of his team is doing the opposite.

That's a darn throw if I've ever seen one. Shortly after he dropped a TD pass to his receiver that was so beautiful I got chills.

[GoColts8818]

Patience. They are giving him more because he can handle more, which will pay dividends in the future.

Again I don't think Luck's the issue. They talk about how quick he is to pick things up. I think it's all the other young players around him and sub par line that is the real issue.

[BleedBlu8792]

Again I don't think Luck's the issue. They talk about how quick he is to pick things up. I think it's all the other young players around him and sub par line that is the real issue.

I hate to say it but the line has been decent the last 3 weeks with a few hiccups here and there. The O-line excuse isn't going to around much longer if they keep improving like they are.

[GoColts8818]

I hate to say it but the line has been decent the last 3 weeks with a few hiccups here and there. The O-line excuse isn't going to around much longer if they keep improving like they are.

They are getting better but they are still not good. Luck was sacked four times in the Packers game (and that's not counting the play where he got rocked that was whipped off the board because of the flag), four times in the Jets game (again if I am not mistake at least one or two sacks came because of how the Jets hit Luck) and three times in the Browns game. Now granted two of the sacks on Sunday were a product of Luck holding the ball too long but the others Luck hasn't really had a chance on. Now add to that we have run the ball very well in two of the last three outings major props to the line for that but in the Jets game they really struggled with run blocking so the line while they seem to be getting better is still a major work in progress.

[Gavin]

I hope that the Colts go back to a Zone Blocking scheme when Arians time is done

[BleedBlu8792]

They are getting better but they are still not good. Luck was sacked four times in the Packers game (and that's not counting the play where he got rocked that was whipped off the board because of the flag), four times in the Jets game (again if I am not mistake at least one or two sacks came because of how the Jets hit Luck) and three times in the Browns game. Now granted two of the sacks on Sunday were a product of Luck holding the ball too long but the others Luck hasn't really had a chance on. Now add to that we have run the ball very well in two of the last three outings major props to the line for that but in the Jets game they really struggled with run blocking so the line while they seem to be getting better is still a major work in progress.

The Packers had 5 and Perry's sack was still accounted for regardless of penalty. However,

with the accumulated sack he's had over these last 3 games, at least half have been coverage sacks and him not throwing the ball away. He took two very bad sacks in the Jets game where he left the pocket and instead of getting rid of the ball he just ducked and took the hit. Its one thing to take it like Peyton did and just fall at or close to the LOS, its another to move backwards and THEN decide to take the sack. Again, I put a good portion of that on Arians for his plays taking so long to develop as to where Luck is supposed to go. Also, there doesn't seem to be very many quick outs for Luck to go to in high pressure situations. The check down early on to Ballard in the Browns game was perfect yet something very rarely seen in this offense. I understand there have been drops but no where near enough for me to take it out of the gameplan, especially when its something this offense could seriously use right now.

I have no doubts the offense as a whole is going to get better, but I think things are being made more complicated than they should be. In my opinion I think they are already good, I just don't believe they are being utilized efficiently.

[krunk]

Each of these 5 rookie QB's will have some more issues pop when teams get more film on them and larger books of work when it comes to the tendencies of the offensive coordinator.

It's quite clear Shanahan has done a better job of putting RG3 in a better position than Arians has Luck to succeed.

I agree with most of your post, but don't you think Lucks numbers would be vastly better if he wasn't sailing so many balls over peoples heads, or under throwing people? Luck has even had short throws that he's sailed over the receivers head into the sideline. Several of those throws were literally guaranteed touchdowns if they were thrown correctly.

Some of his short throws have been dropped by receivers as well. I also think a lot of the simpler things(play action) we've wanted to do with Luck have been snuffed out due to lack of protection in the run game. I will say it looks like the run blocking is starting to get better as we are able to keep the same lineman on the field.