Colts offseason discussion / Ballard Grievances (merge)

[JediXMan]

 

[w87r]

1 hour ago, shasta519 said:

Who reported that IND offered more a week or more ago?
 

I can’t find mention of it until the Holder article…and other articles just link to Holder’s article. 
 

I have no doubt they were in on him, but Holder is implying they made him a better offer. That’s what I am skeptical about. 

It wasn't reported a week ago that it was the Colts that had highest offer.

 

It was reported that he went back home to the Texans, for less than his highest offer.

 

Only correlation with the Colts, is, they were rumored at the time to be 1 of the 2/3 teams in on it.

 

So it was speculation at that point, that the Colts had the highest offer, which I guess it still is, but Holder has to have some Intel to suggest what he did.

 

 

You would think he would be even more careful, after the Destin debacle.

 

 

As far as the guaranteed vs AAV discussion.

 

Hunter was guaranteed $48m by the Texans for 2yrs.

 

For the Colts to beat that guaranteed money on a longer deal, is tough to do, especially on the hypothetical that was listed 

 

3yrs $60m - ($20m AAV), we would of had to guarantee $50m of that, to top Texans. With a 3rd year worth only $10m? Sounds good for Colts, but I'm sure that wouldn't fly with Hunter and his agent.

 

 

That doesn't seem logical. And I know it was just some random numbers.

 

Could it of been a 3yr $70m($23.3m AAV) deal with $50m guaranteed? Potentially makes a little more sense, than the $60m over 3years.

 

At least he would still of had $20m for the 3rd year. But even here, that is $23.3m AAV, so if we did that(who knows?), why does it seem unlikely to of had a $25m AAV on the table($1.7m AAV), which was $500,000 a year more than Texans offer. 

 

 

 

And I guess technically, $500,000 more a year is more, when $373,625 comes out in State tax.

 

Leaves Colts offer about $250k more than the Texans.

 

 

 

Who knows? I just posted the article because it seems to confirm we were in the battle for him. Definitely didn't do it to go back and forth about State taxes/going home/ what more $$ meant. Lol

[w87r]

47 minutes ago, JediXMan said:

 

Diggs would be nice for a couple years of we finish this deal up.

 

 

Hopefully can keep it in the $6-$9m range, under $10m. Think we should be able to.

[shasta519]

4 hours ago, w87r said:

It wasn't reported a week ago that it was the Colts that had highest offer.

 

It was reported that he went back home to the Texans, for less than his highest offer.

 

Only correlation with the Colts, is, they were rumored at the time to be 1 of the 2/3 teams in on it.

 

So it was speculation at that point, that the Colts had the highest offer, which I guess it still is, but Holder has to have some Intel to suggest what he did.

 

 

You would think he would be even more careful, after the Destin debacle.

 

 

As far as the guaranteed vs AAV discussion.

 

Hunter was guaranteed $48m by the Texans for 2yrs.

 

For the Colts to beat that guaranteed money on a longer deal, is tough to do, especially on the hypothetical that was listed 

 

3yrs $60m - ($20m AAV), we would of had to guarantee $50m of that, to top Texans. With a 3rd year worth only $10m? Sounds good for Colts, but I'm sure that wouldn't fly with Hunter and his agent.

 

 

That doesn't seem logical. And I know it was just some random numbers.

 

Could it of been a 3yr $70m($23.3m AAV) deal with $50m guaranteed? Potentially makes a little more sense, than the $60m over 3years.

 

At least he would still of had $20m for the 3rd year. But even here, that is $23.3m AAV, so if we did that(who knows?), why does it seem unlikely to of had a $25m AAV on the table($1.7m AAV), which was $500,000 a year more than Texans offer. 

 

 

 

And I guess technically, $500,000 more a year is more, when $373,625 comes out in State tax.

 

Leaves Colts offer about $250k more than the Texans.

 

 

 

Who knows? I just posted the article because it seems to confirm we were in the battle for him. Definitely didn't do it to go back and forth about State taxes/going home/ what more $$ meant. Lol

I didn’t mean to imply that you were confirming that they offered more. I just get skeptical when somebody like Holder says it without any details. Especially since I haven’t seen any other Colts media/content creator say the same.

 

And I could be wrong, but if they had actually offered more gtd money, I bet Holder would have gladly specified that as well.

 

So if they just offered him a larger total contract value, it’s not really worth noteworthy, because we don’t know the details. But the way Holder positioned it was that the Colts were aggressive and offered him a better deal. I think many of his readers will interpret it that way…and it seems to be the angle he was going for.

 

 

[Scott Pennock]

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2024/03/26/colts-free-agency-danielle-hunter-texans-offered-more-money/

 

Prime example of a player "CHOOSING" to play somewhere else versus come to Naptown. He chose less money to play for Houston. This happens to both of our major franchises, the Pacers and the Colts. 

 

This is not a GM issue, this is a culture issue. Indiana is a flyover state and thus most free agents will choose to fly over as well and sign with a franchise in a larger city, larger market.

 

You can say he did it because he likes the Texans chances with Stroud versus the Colts with AR5 - but, big time free agents have skipped the Colts even during the Manning and Luck era's too.

 

Perhaps someday some of you armchair GM's will realize this and stop whining so much about the FO............Polian, Grigson and Ballard alike.

[GoColts8818]

2 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2024/03/26/colts-free-agency-danielle-hunter-texans-offered-more-money/

 

Prime example of a player "CHOOSING" to play somewhere else versus come to Naptown. He chose less money to play for Houston. This happens to both of our major franchises, the Pacers and the Colts. 

 

This is not a GM issue, this is a culture issue. Indiana is a flyover state and thus most free agents will choose to fly over as well and sign with a franchise in a larger city, larger market.

 

You can say he did it because he likes the Texans chances with Stroud versus the Colts with AR5 - but, big time free agents have skipped the Colts even during the Manning and Luck era's too.

 

Perhaps someday some of you armchair GM's will realize this and stop whining so much about the FO............Polian, Grigson and Ballard alike.

He’s from Houston and wanted to go home.  It could have been the Raiders, Giants, or any other major city team and he would have still gone home.  
 

This was well documented weeks ago and when he signed with the Texans.  Why it’s becoming a big controversy here the past couple of days is beyond me.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

He’s from Houston and wanted to go home.  It could have been the Raiders, Giants, or any other major city team and he would have still gone home.  
 

This was well documented weeks ago and when he signed with the Texans.  Why it’s becoming a big controversy here the past couple of days is beyond me.

Give the link to well documented article or evidence 

[AwesomeAustin]

17 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Yes….  But the Nelson move down was at the top of the draft.   From 3 to 6.   Points there are large.    
 

But once you’re in the middle of the first round, the points are much more modest so a small move gets you very little.   To get a bigger return teams may have to trade either to the bottom of the first, or sometimes out of the first altogether.  

This. Ballard has already traded a first round pick and got an additional 2nd. He had to trade out of the first round and the 2nd was the following year. I believe it was with Washington.  I’m with you. I highly doubt any team will give up their 1st and 2nd or 3rd for the 15th pick. 

[Nevbot]

10 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2024/03/26/colts-free-agency-danielle-hunter-texans-offered-more-money/

 

Prime example of a player "CHOOSING" to play somewhere else versus come to Naptown. He chose less money to play for Houston. This happens to both of our major franchises, the Pacers and the Colts. 

 

This is not a GM issue, this is a culture issue. Indiana is a flyover state and thus most free agents will choose to fly over as well and sign with a franchise in a larger city, larger market.

 

You can say he did it because he likes the Texans chances with Stroud versus the Colts with AR5 - but, big time free agents have skipped the Colts even during the Manning and Luck era's too.

 

Perhaps someday some of you armchair GM's will realize this and stop whining so much about the FO............Polian, Grigson and Ballard alike.

This is spot on. Small market, and people want to think a St Elmo's steak, the combine and Manning's legacy is enough for people to want to just come to Indy to play. We don't have the night life, climate, roster or tax breaks to incentivize anyone to come here.  So the only way to do it is money.  We would automatically have to mark up every offer we want to make by 5-10% to have a chance at most of the top guys.  And the unfortunate reality of first tier free agents is that their value already gets marked up 20% to that players actual worth, so Ballard is probably out before the real negotiations are even taking place. We can afford to do that move for like ONE marquee player when the roster is ready....but not now, not on a good player who hit free agency because their former team didn't find them important enough to keep them.  We can never fall back on the fact that a we can lure a player here because of external factors.....because those will typically work against us. There was extensive discussion about this on page 48 of this thread. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

47 minutes ago, Nevbot said:

This is spot on. Small market, and people want to think a St Elmo's steak, the combine and Manning's legacy is enough for people to want to just come to Indy to play. We don't have the night life, climate, roster or tax breaks to incentivize anyone to come here.  So the only way to do it is money.  We would automatically have to mark up every offer we want to make by 5-10% to have a chance at most of the top guys.  And the unfortunate reality of first tier free agents is that their value already gets marked up 20% to that players actual worth, so Ballard is probably out before the real negotiations are even taking place. We can afford to do that move for like ONE marquee player when the roster is ready....but not now, not on a good player who hit free agency because their former team didn't find them important enough to keep them.  We can never fall back on the fact that a we can lure a player here because of external factors.....because those will typically work against us. There was extensive discussion about this on page 48 of this thread. 

This is one very big reason we have to hit on the draft. Because guys we draft do want to stay.  So growing our own is very important. 

[stitches]

I just saw Pittman's "Reception Perception" charts... so here it goes:

 

 

 

 

[throwing BBZ]

46 minutes ago, stitches said:

I just saw Pittman's "Reception Perception" charts... so here it goes:

 

 

 

 

 

 Nice catch Stitch.

 Year two of Steichen, our very functional TE group and Downs gives me very high expectations that we will be highly effective attacking the middle of the field. If we do add another WR to help complement the other side of the field, Pittman's ability to be even more outstanding only goes up. And I feel confident another guy will be added. Our offense should be very strong for 2024.

[indyagent17]

This time of year is easily the most frustrating. Conjecture is the game and free agency has been a bit frustrating with only 2 players picked up from outside the organization

 

Free agency has calmed down and its still a month from the draft.

[Indeee]

Just now, indyagent17 said:

This time of year is easily the most frustrating. Conjecture is the game and free agency has been a bit frustrating with only 2 players picked up from outside the organization

 

Free agency has calmed down and its still a month from the draft.

Oh. I thought this was a thread about "until Ballard got fired" for which I would agree... The waiting is getting unbearable 🤣🤣

[CoachLite]

Why be anxious about things you have absolutely no control over? We'll see what happens after it's all done.

[Pelt]

I miss Tom Petty

[smittywerb]

If that holder article is true, then I have to cut Ballard some slack.  Still upset we stayed in the sneed discussions for so long, but I’ll cut him some slack.

 

and honestly not surprised.  Houston is a better destination.  They have a great young qb.  They’re on the up and up.  I feel if AR goes out and proves he’s just as good if not better, we’ll see some free agents wanting to play here.  
 

I don’t think the colts being in indiana is the main issue.  It’s the same reason why a player like McKinney chose to play in Green Bay.  He said himself he chose Green Bay over any of his offers because of Jordan love.  Houston has stroud who just played like a top 10 qb.  We have AR who even us fans hope he can play a full year.  So as a player, if I want to compete, id go to a team with a proven qb.  

[Dobbinblitz]

Ballard on Free Agency:

 

“No doubt we looked into free agency in totality,” Ballard said. “I mean, we looked at everybody. It kind of worked out where it ended up being a lot of our own guys, which are all good players.”

[Smonroe]

3 hours ago, Pelt said:

I miss Tom Petty

 

This is how old I am:

 

[Pelt]

29 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

This is how old I am:

 

That's cool!

 

I was fortunate enough to catch him on his last tour just before he passed. Great concert.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Ballard trying to convince FA players to join on bargain deals 

[Defjamz26]

19 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

This time of year is easily the most frustrating. Conjecture is the game and free agency has been a bit frustrating with only 2 players picked up from outside the organization

 

Free agency has calmed down and its still a month from the draft.

Yeah and most of the true difference makers have been signed. At this point anyone you get will be a role player or just an average starter at best. So any FA signing that may happen between now and the draft isn’t going to generate much excitement.

[csmopar]

On 3/27/2024 at 2:48 PM, w87r said:

It wasn't reported a week ago that it was the Colts that had highest offer.

 

It was reported that he went back home to the Texans, for less than his highest offer.

 

Only correlation with the Colts, is, they were rumored at the time to be 1 of the 2/3 teams in on it.

 

So it was speculation at that point, that the Colts had the highest offer, which I guess it still is, but Holder has to have some Intel to suggest what he did.

 

 

You would think he would be even more careful, after the Destin debacle.

 

 

As far as the guaranteed vs AAV discussion.

 

Hunter was guaranteed $48m by the Texans for 2yrs.

 

For the Colts to beat that guaranteed money on a longer deal, is tough to do, especially on the hypothetical that was listed 

 

3yrs $60m - ($20m AAV), we would of had to guarantee $50m of that, to top Texans. With a 3rd year worth only $10m? Sounds good for Colts, but I'm sure that wouldn't fly with Hunter and his agent.

 

 

That doesn't seem logical. And I know it was just some random numbers.

 

Could it of been a 3yr $70m($23.3m AAV) deal with $50m guaranteed? Potentially makes a little more sense, than the $60m over 3years.

 

At least he would still of had $20m for the 3rd year. But even here, that is $23.3m AAV, so if we did that(who knows?), why does it seem unlikely to of had a $25m AAV on the table($1.7m AAV), which was $500,000 a year more than Texans offer. 

 

 

 

And I guess technically, $500,000 more a year is more, when $373,625 comes out in State tax.

 

Leaves Colts offer about $250k more than the Texans.

 

 

 

Who knows? I just posted the article because it seems to confirm we were in the battle for him. Definitely didn't do it to go back and forth about State taxes/going home/ what more $$ meant. Lol

https://heavy.com/sports/indianapolis-colts/danielle-hunter-colts-offer-texans/?fbclid=IwAR2O7Y9ovhRugFbWNhiPEMUzxz3X4XwqIwdKZSs1PnmOeU8fZToKUH0pO1g_aem_AZr2EX2JFmtBk7XtgAOILdB2-TKJK6dUKaoFygyDU1sq2ql_y37L5ZRSSqIi6tYp7KE

[AKB]

On 3/27/2024 at 9:22 PM, Scott Pennock said:

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2024/03/26/colts-free-agency-danielle-hunter-texans-offered-more-money/

 

Prime example of a player "CHOOSING" to play somewhere else versus come to Naptown. He chose less money to play for Houston. This happens to both of our major franchises, the Pacers and the Colts. 

 

This is not a GM issue, this is a culture issue. Indiana is a flyover state and thus most free agents will choose to fly over as well and sign with a franchise in a larger city, larger market.

 

You can say he did it because he likes the Texans chances with Stroud versus the Colts with AR5 - but, big time free agents have skipped the Colts even during the Manning and Luck era's too.

 

Perhaps someday some of you armchair GM's will realize this and stop whining so much about the FO............Polian, Grigson and Ballard alike.

how much mofe did we offer?

[AKB]

23 hours ago, smittywerb said:

If that holder article is true, then I have to cut Ballard some slack.  Still upset we stayed in the sneed discussions for so long, but I’ll cut him some slack.

 

and honestly not surprised.  Houston is a better destination.  They have a great young qb.  They’re on the up and up.  I feel if AR goes out and proves he’s just as good if not better, we’ll see some free agents wanting to play here.  
 

I don’t think the colts being in indiana is the main issue.  It’s the same reason why a player like McKinney chose to play in Green Bay.  He said himself he chose Green Bay over any of his offers because of Jordan love.  Houston has stroud who just played like a top 10 qb.  We have AR who even us fans hope he can play a full year.  So as a player, if I want to compete, id go to a team with a proven qb.  

agree with this statement, kudos to Ballard for attempting, but Indiana being a 'flyover' state is not the sole, or even main reason hunter signed with Houston. 

 

they are the better team, in his home state, with their Franchise QB ready to go

[w87r]

 

 

 

[w87r]

 OtC  has all our players currently under contract listed now, has us at $16.9m

While Spotrac still needing to update Bryan, I have them projected at $17.5m.

 

 

So current cap space $16.9m-$17.5m

 

 

Going to check on that $600k difference a little later.

[Dobbinblitz]

Jets picked Haason Reddick from the Eagles for a conditional 3rd

[richard pallo]

21 minutes ago, Dobbinblitz said:

Jets picked Haason Reddick from the Eagles for a conditional 3rd

In 2026!

[Indeee]

24 minutes ago, Dobbinblitz said:

Jets picked Haason Reddick from the Eagles for a conditional 3rd

In 2026 that could become a second if he plays 68% of the snaps, but who cares. I mean we couldn't offer that? 

 

Reddick is hands down better than what we currently have in the rush department. 

 

Seriously, this is absurd. 

[Shive]

2 hours ago, Indeee said:

In 2026 that could become a second if he plays 68% of the snaps, but who cares. I mean we couldn't offer that? 

 

Reddick is hands down better than what we currently have in the rush department. 

 

Seriously, this is absurd. 

He's also requiring a new contract as well, which may have kept us out of it if the number is too high.

 

Reddick is also a bit undersized for what we like to run on our DL, so I doubt he was on the radar. For the record, he was one of "my guys" in that draft class and I wanted to take him in the 1st, so I don't disagree that he would be nice to bring in.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

3 hours ago, Indeee said:

In 2026 that could become a second if he plays 68% of the snaps, but who cares. I mean we couldn't offer that? 

 

Reddick is hands down better than what we currently have in the rush department. 

 

Seriously, this is absurd. 

Quote

Traded to New York (NYJ) from Philadelphia (PHI) for 2026 3rd round pick [Converts to a 2nd Rd pick with 67.5% snaps + 10 sacks in 2024]

It also depends on him getting 10 sacks with Jets in this coming season. 

[Indeee]

3 hours ago, Shive said:

He's also requiring a new contract as well, which may have kept us out of it if the number is too high.

 

Reddick is also a bit undersized for what we like to run on our DL, so I doubt he was on the radar. For the record, he was one of "my guys" in that draft class and I wanted to take him in the 1st, so I don't disagree that he would be nice to bring in.

Why is everyone on here always afraid of or not wanting to pay talented players. This is also absurd and this argument is getting old

[Zoltan]

2 hours ago, Indeee said:

Why is everyone on here always afraid of or not wanting to pay talented players. This is also absurd and this argument is getting old

No one is afraid of paying for talented players, they just don't want to pay aging players past their peak or players that are coming off a lot of hype that doesn't match their talent. We have seen that before with Grigson and all it does is put you in a bad spot salary cap wise and unable to resign your own good players. You combine that with also having to trade away high draft picks it's not worth it. 

[Yoshinator]

2 hours ago, Zoltan said:

No one is afraid of paying for talented players, they just don't want to pay aging players past their peak or players that are coming off a lot of hype that doesn't match their talent. We have seen that before with Grigson and all it does is put you in a bad spot salary cap wise and unable to resign your own good players. You combine that with also having to trade away high draft picks it's not worth it. 

It happened with Grigson because he was one of the worst drafting GMs in history and we had no good, cheap talent to supplement FA from the draft to develop. Ballard is a great drafter. If he would spend in FA and make some trades for guys like Sneed and Reddick, we could easily draft enough good cheap talent to build around them and compete. It's only a problem when you have a historically bad drafting GM like Grigson. 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

2 hours ago, Yoshinator said:

It happened with Grigson because he was one of the worst drafting GMs in history and we had no good, cheap talent to supplement FA from the draft to develop. Ballard is a great drafter. If he would spend in FA and make some trades for guys like Sneed and Reddick, we could easily draft enough good cheap talent to build around them and compete. It's only a problem when you have a historically bad drafting GM like Grigson. 

Yeah, it has to be a healthy mix of both, but you'd never get the point across. 

[NFLfan]

6 hours ago, Zoltan said:

No one is afraid of paying for talented players, they just don't want to pay aging players past their peak or players that are coming off a lot of hype that doesn't match their talent. We have seen that before with Grigson and all it does is put you in a bad spot salary cap wise and unable to resign your own good players. You combine that with also having to trade away high draft picks it's not worth it. 

 

I agree. It makes a lot of sense.

 

With Colts fans upset that the Colts did not trade for Sneed, I read that the Vikings were also trying to acquire Sneed and were offering more than the Titan did. The Vikes reportedly did not pull off the trade because of Sneed's injuries. (I will put detailed information about that in the NFL section, as it is not Colts related.)

[richard pallo]

6 hours ago, Zoltan said:

No one is afraid of paying for talented players, they just don't want to pay aging players past their peak or players that are coming off a lot of hype that doesn't match their talent. We have seen that before with Grigson and all it does is put you in a bad spot salary cap wise and unable to resign your own good players. You combine that with also having to trade away high draft picks it's not worth it. 

Ballard wasn’t afraid to go after Hunter.  Same age as Reddick and his contract is more than Reddick.  29 might be too old for you but not for Ballard.  Grover is 30.  He didn’t do too bad either.

[Indeee]

6 hours ago, Zoltan said:

No one is afraid of paying for talented players, they just don't want to pay aging players past their peak or players that are coming off a lot of hype that doesn't match their talent. We have seen that before with Grigson and all it does is put you in a bad spot salary cap wise and unable to resign your own good players. You combine that with also having to trade away high draft picks it's not worth it. 

Do you even know what you are talking about? No you obviously don't. 

 

Reddick last 4 years. 12.5, 11, 16, and 11. These are sack totals, and you are going to sit here and spout the bolded.

 

What a joke. 

[Indeee]

13 forced fumbles in the last 4 years. That's 3.25 a season average even while blanking in 2023. ( I used 4 as in 2023 he had zero FF )

 

In comparison:

 

Paye: 3 forced fumbles in last three years. 1 per season average

 

Dayo: 3 forced fumbles in last 3 years. 1 per season average.

 

Ebukam: 5 FF in last 3 years. 1.67 per season average.

 

Buckner: 4 FF in last 3 years. 1.34 per season average.

 

And Reddick is less productive? 

 

It took 3 of our guys to equal one of Reddick.

 

I would have dropped Dayo and Paye and took Reddick all day and twice on Sunday