Will Mahomes be viewed as a better all time QB than Peyton if he wins this years SuperBowl?

[runthepost]

Title is a followed. Would Mahomes move past Peyton in the all time QB ladder if he wins the big game this year?

[BlackTiger]

I will say yeah to a lot of people he will, especially younger fans

 

To them it will be more fun to root for a current player they are watching now and with that bias they will say hes better.  It could actually be true too

[Mitch Connors]

Not yet IMO 

 

Mahomes right now is in the Pats Tom Brady camp - all-time QB paired with one of the greatest coaches of all time. Its hard for me to just discount the value of Andy Reid considering the success he's had with different QB's and organizations. 

 

Tom Brady winning in Tampa without Belichick cemented him as the #1 QB in my mind. Peyton winning in Denver and Indy is still more impressive than the postseason success of Mahomes with Reid. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I would say no. Winning SBs is the most important thing to QBs but it is also a team game. League MVP is viewed by most as the best player in the league, 1 player (QB) though can't always win the SB because he doesn't play defense . When I factor in my QB rankings I look at a QB winning SBs, how many times a QB gets to the SB, but also how many times they have won League MVP as the most important things. As of now in the SB era (1966-2023), here are the top 5 QBs of all-time by my point system: 1.5 points for winning the SB, 1 point for reaching the SB but losing, 1 point for winning League MVP.

1. Brady = 7 SB wins as a starter, 10 SB appearances, 3 League MVPs. 10.5+3+3 = 16.5.

 

2. Peyton = 2 SB wins as a starter, 4 SB appearances, 5 League MVPs. 3+2+5 = 10.

 

3. Montana = 4 SB wins as a starter, 4 SB appearances, 2 League MVPs. 6+2 = 8.

 

4. Mahomes = 2 SB wins as a starter, 4 SB appearances, 2 League MVPs. 3+2+2 = 7. A SB win by my point system would put him at 4.5+1+2 = 7.5. 4th best of all-time ahead of Elway and Bradshaw without argument.

 

4. Elway = 2 SB wins as a starter, 5 SB appearances, 1 League MVP. 3+3+1 = 7.

 

4. Terry Bradshaw won 4 SBs as a starter with 4 Appearances which would give him 6 total points, he also won 1 League MVP so 7 points overall. As of now Mahomes is tied with Elway and Bradshaw at #4 out of 6 QBs all-time in the SB era anyway. 

 

*This of course doesn't include QBs like Unitas or Graham, or Baugh. Their best years were before the SB era.

 

 

[FanFromtheWasteland]

No. Not yet anyway. May happen though

[chad72]

Mahomes needs a little more longevity and another MVP to go with a 3rd SB title to be better than Peyton.

 

As far as the first 6 years as starting QB go, hands down, YES. As far as career goes, just a little more to go, IMO.

 

3 MVPs and 3 SBs, he stands above Peyton, IMO. That would be 1 MVP more than Tom Brady and 1 SB more than Peyton.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Mahomes needs a little more longevity and another MVP to go with a 3rd SB title to be better than Peyton.

 

As far as the first 6 years as starting QB go, hands down, YES. As far as career goes, just a little more to go, IMO.

 

3 MVPs and 3 SBs, he stands above Peyton, IMO. That would be 1 MVP more than Tom Brady and 1 SB more than Peyton.

Actually Brady has won 3 League MVPs, see my point system above. 

[BlackTiger]

I really think younger non colts fans will see it that way.

 

older colts fans wont, or at least wont want to

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

I really think younger non colts fans will see it that way.

 

older colts fans wont, or at least wont want to

This is true unfortunately. Just like most people think LeBron is #2 at worse in the NBA and some think he is the GOAT, Magic Johnson was better than LeBron but most people wasn't born yet to remember him play in the 80's or they were pooping in their diapers. 

[chad72]

11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Actually Brady has won 3 League MVPs, see my point system above. 

 

But my point still remains. 

 

1 more SB and 1 more MVP, Mahomes will be better than Peyton in my book.

 

Winning a SB with another HC happens during the rare circumstances a HOF QB is forced out or wants out. Brady wanted out because the Patriots weren't giving him enough help on the offensive side and he had that in Tampa. Peyton, we know the story. To me, that is not a defining criteria for putting some QB over the other across their career, maybe for you but not for me. Good chance they keep Mahomes happy in KC land by drafting and signing the appropriate FAs to keep them relevant. 

 

The issue is Andy Reid might retire in a few years and we will see how things go after that. That is the only way I see another HC going down in KC for Mahomes to play with. He has got ownership stakes in KC Royals and MLS clubs in KC that he won't go elsewhere unless he falls off a cliff, but worse things have happened.

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, chad72 said:

 

But my point still remains. 

 

1 more SB and 1 more MVP, Mahomes will be better than Peyton in my book.

 

Winning a SB with another HC happens during the rare circumstances a HOF QB is forced out or wants out. Brady wanted out because the Patriots weren't giving him enough help on the offensive side and he had that in Tampa. Peyton, we know the story. To me, that is not a defining criteria for putting some QB over the other across their career, maybe for you but not for me. Good chance they keep Mahomes happy in KC land by drafting and signing the appropriate FAs to keep them relevant. 

 

The issue is Andy Reid might retire in a few years and we will see how things go after that.

 

 

Mahomes definitely needs at least 1 more League MVP, a SB win this year still doesn't do it yet, so we sort of agree. 

[jvan1973]

Peyton going to 4 superbowls with 4 different head coaches is the most impressive stat.   How much better would he have been with Andy Reid his entire career

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

Peyton going to 4 superbowls with 4 different head coaches is the most impressive stat.   How much better would he have been with Andy Reid his entire career

That is another reason why a QB deserves credit just for making the SB, winning the Conference says a lot. Peyton also won a SB with 2 different teams, only Tom Brady is the other QB to do so.

[chad72]

6 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Peyton going to 4 superbowls with 4 different head coaches is the most impressive stat.   How much better would he have been with Andy Reid his entire career

 

I don't think it was the offensive side that was the issue, Tom Moore was stellar for the most part. Dungy and Meeks' style of D wasn't getting it done in crunch time against the best offenses in the league come playoff time, IMO. Also, special teams till Vinatieri came along, was a neglected side of the Colts' squads. Only team to give up an opening KR TD and a recovered onside kick after the half, both in SBs. Polian screwed the pooch there.

 

You see Spags and Butker/Dave Toub that they have had for long, you see their success in those phases, if you gave Peyton those, his margin for error in the playoffs would have gone up and he would have had more SB appearances and possibly wins. Remember, before they had Spags, they had Bob Sutton that was at the receiving end of that Andrew Luck comeback and that OT game where Brady never gave up the ball in 2018 till they marched down for a TD vs Chiefs and Mahomes in the 2018 AFCCG. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

I don't think it was the offensive side that was the issue, Tom Moore was stellar for the most part. Dungy and Meeks' style of D wasn't getting it done in crunch time against the best offenses in the league come playoff time, IMO. Also, special teams till Vinatieri came along, was a neglected side of the Colts' squads. Only team to give up an opening KR TD and a recovered onside kick after the half, both in SBs. Polian screwed the pooch there.

 

You see Spags and Butker/Dave Toub that they have had for long, you see their success in those phases, if you gave Peyton those, his margin for error in the playoffs would have gone up and he would have had more SB appearances and possibly wins.

When ranking QBs, those 5 League MVPs are hard to overlook. Basically, that is the league saying you are the best player in the entire league. I remember teams, even Belichick would onside kick it at odd times just so Peyton couldn't get the ball when those teams played. It was comical in 2005 and in 2006. Sean Payton did it in the SB in 2009 as well. That is how dangerous Peyton was. Teams were scared of him. Ray Lewis to this day has said, Peyton scared him more than any QB he played against because of his intelligence.

[2006Coltsbestever]

21 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This is true unfortunately. Just like most people think LeBron is #2 at worse in the NBA and some think he is the GOAT, Magic Johnson was better than LeBron but most people wasn't born yet to remember him play in the 80's or they were pooping in their diapers. 

By the way, didn't mean to dis the King  , LeBron is in my top 5. Just had to use an example of how older players get dissed.

[chad72]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When ranking QBs, those 5 League MVPs are hard to overlook. Basically, that is the league saying you are the best player in the entire league. I remember teams, even Belichick would onside kick it at odd times just so Peyton couldn't get the ball when those teams played. It was comical in 2005 and in 2006. Sean Payton did it in the SB in 2009 as well. That is how dangerous Peyton was. Teams were scared of him. Ray Lewis to this day has said, Peyton scared him more than any QB he played against because of his intelligence.

 

No doubt. Peyton made playing QB look like a professional tutorial and a lot of others emulated them, including Brady on several aspects. Even the casual fan turned on the TV to watch him play. In that sense, the new PM, Patrick Mahomes is having a similar effect, IMO.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, chad72 said:

 

No doubt. Peyton made playing QB look like a professional tutorial and a lot of others emulated them, including Brady on several aspects. Even the casual fan turned on the TV to watch him play. In that sense, the new PM, Patrick Mahomes is having a similar effect, IMO.

Mahomes is the best by far today. He has yet to run into his Peyton like Brady had. Burrow had something brewing but then got injured again.

[chad72]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Mahomes is the best by far today. He has yet to run into his Peyton like Brady had. Burrow had something brewing but then got injured again.

 

Burrow is not done yet, just been 4 years in the league. If he stays healthy another 10 years, he will get his share. Burrow plays a lot like Brady too, not turning it over, methodical clock control, not giving Mahomes on the other side many chances etc.

[jemack]

I think there are so many categories to compare them by that the opinions become a mish-mash of perpetual gut wind.

That said, my opinion is what matters most 😁. If Manning had a defense like Mahomes or Brady, there'd be no argument.

Btw anyone notice Fangio finally got fired by the Dolphins? 🤣

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Burrow is not done yet, just been 4 years in the league. If he stays healthy another 10 years, he will get his share. Burrow plays a lot like Brady too, not turning it over, methodical clock control, not giving Mahomes on the other side many chances etc.

When healthy, I think Burrow is the 2nd best QB in the league. Then you have guys like Allen and Lamar. Seems like all the great one's are in the AFC.

[chad72]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When healthy, I think Burrow is the 2nd best QB in the league. Then you have guys like Allen and Lamar. Seems like all the great one's are in the AFC.

 

That is also why the usual suspects like the 49ers, Eagles will be sticking around at the top in the NFC.

 

Lions and Packers are definitely good young teams to follow in the coming years. Falcons, if they get a good QB, can turn it around fast but Packers and Lions will make the division really tough in the NFC North.

 

Both the AFC North and NFC North will morph into the toughest divisions though the AFC West and NFC West are close behind, IMO. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

That is also why the usual suspects like the 49ers, Eagles will be sticking around at the top in the NFC.

 

Lions and Packers are definitely good young teams to follow in the coming years. Falcons, if they get a good QB, can turn it around fast but Packers and Lions will make the division really tough in the NFC North.

 

Both the AFC North and NFC North will morph into the toughest divisions though the AFC West and NFC West are close behind, IMO. 

Hurts was great in 2022, the way the Eagles fell apart this season was shocking. They have to prove it to me now that they can remain a top 5 team in the league. I think the 49ers, Lions and even Cowboys are better as of now. Goff is underrated IMO. He played like a top 8-10 QB this season.

[Indyfan4life]

The league gets easier and easier every year for QBs and offenses. I honestly believe if Mahomes played during Peyton’s prime his stats wouldn’t be nearly as good. I’d like to believe he wouldn’t have been to nearly as many or any super bowls period.

 

Could you imagine Peyton playing today? He’d throw 50+ TD every year. 

[indyagent17]

Peyton is one of the greatest regular season QB ever. The playoffs are a different story, so many seasons died in Foxboro. When booger McFarlane came here and Bob Sanders was healthy. That was the biggest reason we won the Super Bowl. I know Peyton won two but having Reggie, Marvin, Edgerrin, Freeney, Mathis and Clark we should’ve won more championships.

[tweezy32]

Prime Peyton manning in todays league would absolutely torch defenses. He would have 50 touchdowns every year. The league now is soft and favor the offense by far. Same goes as WR. WR. back the would torch the defenses ow because they arent being grabbed every play. Same goes for like NBA thats why players are able to score so much points in a game because defense is soft. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, indyagent17 said:

Peyton is one of the greatest regular season QB ever. The playoffs are a different story, so many seasons died in Foxboro. When booger McFarlane came here and Bob Sanders was healthy. That was the biggest reason we won the Super Bowl. I know Peyton won two but having Reggie, Marvin, Edgerrin, Freeney, Mathis and Clark we should’ve won more championships.

I will say this, the Pats simply had the better team in 2003 and 2004. Brady wasn't great Brady but he still was very good at that time, add that too their defense, SP Teams, and Coaching was superior to ours. They had a complete team those years. We should have beat the Saints in 2009 and I think we would have had Marvin Harrsion not retired and played 1 more year. Saints knew we were going to throw Reggie in the 2nd Half and keyed on it. Freeney getting injured sunk us on defense as well. We made a lot of dumb mistakes that game, from missing a FG, not getting onsides kick, Garcon's drop that may have been a TD, to Peyton throwing an INT trying to force it to Reggie. 

[stitches]

Unpopular opinion, especially on a Colts forum - he already is viewed as better all time QB than Peyton... and it's probably justified, especially when you consider he still has half his career ahead of him 

[ColtV]

3 hours ago, runthepost said:

Title is a followed. Would Mahomes move past Peyton in the all time QB ladder if he wins the big game this year?

I think when it is all said and done he will be viewed as better, yes. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

18 minutes ago, stitches said:

Unpopular opinion, especially on a Colts forum - he already is viewed as better all time QB than Peyton... and it's probably justified, especially when you consider he still has half his career ahead of him 

Not sure that is true when you say "he already is viewed as better all time QB than Peyton". Maybe by shows like 1st Take because those shows are about creating narratives and controversy to get people to watch. Too many people get caught up in the moment and just go by who is better today. Like, how does LeBron go from like being the 8th or 9th best player of all-time, than in 1 year (the 1 year his team beat the Warriors) leaps frog players like Magic, Kobe, Shaq, Kareem, Bird, etc.. I did a point system above and even by my eye test to me Mahomes is 4th best of all-time. I don't see in anyway, anyone can have him above Brady, Montana, or Peyton yet. Other than he is the best today and people don't know their history. Watch if somehow Mahomes loses to the 49ers, the same people calling him the GOAT will pile on him and this topic won't even come up again until next years playoffs.

[teganslaw]

Mahomes has won Super Bowls for one team; Manning and Brady have won it for two. I can't deny Mahomes' talent, but I would like to see him win with a different coach before viewing him better than Peyton Manning. 

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, Indyfan4life said:

The league gets easier and easier every year for QBs and offenses. I honestly believe if Mahomes played during Peyton’s prime his stats wouldn’t be nearly as good. I’d like to believe he wouldn’t have been to nearly as many or any super bowls period.

 

Could you imagine Peyton playing today? He’d throw 50+ TD every year. 

I disagree  only because  of his ability  to make off platform  throws, because  of that he be elite in any era

[Nesjan3]

So many variables. Everyones view on GOAT is different. Many people view SB's and playoff success as the ultimate determining factor. If that were the case then Its Brady, Montana, Mahomes 1, 2, 3. 

 

That is a pretty flawed viewpoint IMO, even though the QB is the most important position by far on the field it still takes a supporting cast and good coaching. 

 

I think everyone in Colts land knows Peyton is probably the QB with the highest cerebral and talent combination in history. He took many average rosters with average coaching to immense success. Switch Mahomes situation with Peyton, Or Brady with Peyton and you might be looking at 10 Superbowls.

 

Its hard for people to look past the surface level things and see that though.

[Stephen]

Just now, Nesjan3 said:

So many variables. Everyones view on GOAT is different. Many people view SB's and playoff success as the ultimate determining factor. If that were the case then Its Brady, Montana, Mahomes 1, 2, 3. 

 

That is a pretty flawed viewpoint IMO, even though the QB is the most important position by far on the field it still takes a supporting cast and good coaching. 

 

I think everyone in Colts land knows Peyton is probably the QB with the highest cerebral and talent combination in history. He took many average rosters with average coaching to immense success. Switch Mahomes situation with Peyton, Or Brady with Peyton and you might be looking at 10 Superbowls.

 

Its hard for people to look past the surface level things and see that though.

Peyton's level of play in the playoffs  wasn't  as good as Brady and Mahomes though

[stitches]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Not sure that is true when you say "he already is viewed as better all time QB than Peyton". Maybe by shows like 1st Take because those shows are about creating narratives and controversy to get people to watch. Too many people get caught up in the moment and just go by who is better today. Like, how does LeBron go from like being the 8th or 9th best player of all-time, than in 1 year (the 1 year his team beat the Warriors) leaps frog players like Magic, Kobe, Shaq, Kareem, Bird, etc.. I did a point system above and even by my eye test to me Mahomes is 4th best of all-time. I don't see in anyway, anyone can have him above Brady, Montana, or Peyton yet. Other than he is the best today and people don't know their history. Watch if somehow Mahomes loses to the 49ers, the same people calling him the GOAT will pile on him and this topic won't even come up again until next years playoffs.

IMO the very fact that there is a conversation about this and Mahomes is still 28 and about to play in his 4th Superbowl should tell you something about the way Mahomes is regarded. I don't think it's just the hot take shows. I've heard plenty of respectable(non-hot-take type of) pundits and analysts consider Mahomes as one of the best to ever play already. I've heard some even say he might be the best there ever was(this includes Brady). You don't have to agree with this and I don't agree with that last part... yet, but it's not crazy or unreasonable to hold that opinion, IMO. He certainly has the talent, he certainly has the success to warrant such consideration. And again... I will repeat this because it's still kind of crazy... he's still 28 and about to go to his 4th Superbowl, with a chance to go for his 3d win in a Superbowl out of 7 years in the league(and he didn't play in the 1st year)... 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

I said it before and I'm saying it again: Super Bowl wins is a poor measuring stick when talking about all time great players. 

 

There's so many things involved and needed to go to a Super Bowl.....and none less important than your market ability for the networks/advertisers to want you and your team to be there for them to pay and get paid the astronomical advertising rates.

Its a business and entertainment much more than a sport. 

 

The championship games,imo, are the most important games of the year because they determine who the participants are in the Big Game. And in the last 21 years the Cheater(brady) and Mahomes were in 18 championship games.....

.. ...so much for the NFL being set-up for parity. Not when it comes to the Big money games its not. 

 

 

[Myles]

I would say yes for most people and the sports (ESPN) analysts.  

To me, Manning was the best I have ever seen (Marino, Montana and Young are close).

[jvan1973]

9 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

I said it before and I'm saying it again: Super Bowl wins is a poor measuring stick when talking about all time great players. 

 

There's so many things involved and needed to go to a Super Bowl.....and none less important than your market ability for the networks/advertisers to want you and your team to be there for them to pay and get paid the astronomical advertising rates.

Its a business and entertainment much more than a sport. 

 

The championship games,imo, are the most important games of the year because they determine who the participants are in the Big Game. And in the last 21 years the Cheater(brady) and Mahomes were in 18 championship games.....

.. ...so much for the NFL being set-up for parity. Not when it comes to the Big money games its not. 

 

 

 

If any of what you just said were true, Dallas wouldn't have been excluded from the Super Bowl for 30 years.   The Bears would be there pretty regularly.   Indianapolis has a larger TV market than Kansas City.  So does Detroit and several other cities.  Your notion is nonsensical 

[smittywerb]

I mean, he’s already there to me.  He has more playoff wins 6 years in.  He will eventually pass him stat wise.  He’s passed him in SB appearances.  And if he wins he’ll pass him in SB rings.

 

only thing he’s probably have left to do by end of his career is win with another team/conference (if he ever leaves) and get 7 rings to pass brady.

[coltsfan77]

One thing that always interest me in Peyton’s playoff struggles. When he played similar defenses to that of the colts he was stellar. Others, such as pats he had struggles early on before figuring them out. My point, colts had an average to below average D almost the entire time he played here. Could that possibly contributed to the work he put in for playoffs practicing against our guys where the others such as TB and BR constantly practiced against the best Ds in the league during their tenure. Just feel if he had that gauntlet to prepare against every week it would have contributed to better playoff success.