Will Mahomes be viewed as a better all time QB than Peyton if he wins this years SuperBowl?

[BlackTiger]

23 minutes ago, Myles said:

I like Andy Reid.  I like Mahomes.

I actually like Andy Reid, great coach and mind for the game.  Its fun to watch what he comes up with.  I dont mind Mahomes either.

 

What I dont like is their fans, media coverage and now domination of social media.  I could just not tune into that stuff but those things used to motive me to watch and care about the sport.  If I tune it all out then my interest in the whole thing goes down.

 

It would help if the Colts were more relevant.  While we had a decent year it didnt tell us much about who we are going forward

[rock8591]

A month ago, I would have laughed at the OP and his post. For that reason, I didn't even read the post but only the thread title. Now, not only do I agree with the OP, I don't think he goes anywhere near far enough.

 

Mahomes >>> Manning, and it's borderline not even close.

 

Manning was oftentimes unprepared for the playoffs and lost many games that he should have won; Mahomes would never have lost to the likes of Jay Fiedler, Chad Pennington, or Mark Sanchez in the playoffs.

[Myles]

9 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

 

 

What I dont like is their fans, media coverage and now domination of social media.  I could just not tune into that stuff but those things used to motive me to watch and care about the sport.  If I tune it all out then my interest in the whole thing goes down.

 

They still are not to the Cowboys level though.  I don't mind a good team winning and creating their own dynasty getting "deserved" attention as much as an average team like the Cowboys.  They are easy to hate.

[BlackTiger]

7 minutes ago, Myles said:

They still are not to the Cowboys level though.  I don't mind a good team winning and creating their own dynasty getting "deserved" attention as much as an average team like the Cowboys.  They are easy to hate.

I've got to go back to the social media part to explain why I feel that way.

 

Ftr Chiefs fans are really hostile towards the Colts online, up there with the Titans and even worse than the Jaguars and maybe Texans.  They really have it out for us.

 

I dont have to follow this stuff for sure but it motives me to care about the sport.

 

Titans probably send the most hate our way and the Cheifs are up there.  Jags and Texans are inconsistent  

 

 

[Myles]

10 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

I've got to go back to the social media part to explain why I feel that way.

 

Ftr Chiefs fans are really hostile towards the Colts online, up there with the Titans and even worse than the Jaguars and maybe Texans.  They really have it out for us.

 

I dont have to follow this stuff for sure but it motives me to care about the sport.

 

Titans probably send the most hate our way and the Cheifs are up there.  Jags and Texans are inconsistent  

 

 

I guess I never browse those sites or apps.  

[cdgacoltsfan]

7 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You are right it isn't close. Mahomes 2 League MVPs, Manning 5 

Mahomes is 28...if you don't like him,you may want to stop watching the NFL for the next10 years. MVP isn't the goal, it's an award, an opinion award. Championships are the goal .

 

[chad72]

33 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

I've got to go back to the social media part to explain why I feel that way.

 

Ftr Chiefs fans are really hostile towards the Colts online, up there with the Titans and even worse than the Jaguars and maybe Texans.  They really have it out for us.

 

I dont have to follow this stuff for sure but it motives me to care about the sport.

 

Titans probably send the most hate our way and the Cheifs are up there.  Jags and Texans are inconsistent  

 

 

 

Where? Reddit?

 

Arrowheadpride, folks are courteous towards Colts fans, just like most folks on StampedeBlue are courteous towards other fans. If you come trolling, yeah, you ask for it.  

[BeanDiasucci]

13 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I disagree, I will take Peyton all day. I will give you Mahomes. Peyton would of won 3 or 4 if he had the defenses Mahomes has had or Brady had. 49ers did so many dumb things tonight, they gave the game away. They even missed an extra point 

I never understand your use of Homer in laughing at others. Isn't the character of Homer Simpson intended to be a relatable but incredibly stupid person? 

[smittywerb]

Yeah sorry colts fan, Mahomes is definitely top 3 at this point.

 

its Brady, Montana, Mahomes.  Mahomes is going to pass Montana, the question is will he pass brady.

 

i see people saying Peyton would’ve won more if he had a defense for majority of his career, and that may be true.  But the reason why Mahomes has a defense is because Mahomes is willing to take pay cuts to keep his team intact.  Not saying manning wouldn’t but he didn’t say he would either.  He has a right to his money but I’m just saying ya know.

[jvan1973]

13 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

Yeah sorry colts fan, Mahomes is definitely top 3 at this point.

 

its Brady, Montana, Mahomes.  Mahomes is going to pass Montana, the question is will he pass brady.

 

i see people saying Peyton would’ve won more if he had a defense for majority of his career, and that may be true.  But the reason why Mahomes has a defense is because Mahomes is willing to take pay cuts to keep his team intact.  Not saying manning wouldn’t but he didn’t say he would either.  He has a right to his money but I’m just saying ya know.

10 year 450 million dollar contract.   That's quite the hometown discount

[BeanDiasucci]

10 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

Yeah sorry colts fan, Mahomes is definitely top 3 at this point.

 

its Brady, Montana, Mahomes.  Mahomes is going to pass Montana, the question is will he pass brady.

 

i see people saying Peyton would’ve won more if he had a defense for majority of his career, and that may be true.  But the reason why Mahomes has a defense is because Mahomes is willing to take pay cuts to keep his team intact.  Not saying manning wouldn’t but he didn’t say he would either.  He has a right to his money but I’m just saying ya know.

Yes. The Colts defense suffered during the Manning era because the team focused so much of its payroll on offense with Manning, James, Harrison, Wayne, Dilger and others, plus a top offensive line featuring Tarik Glenn. To have such a strong defense this year, the Chiefs were lacking in offensive weapons but Mahomes made it work. 

[chad72]

12 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

Yes. The Colts defense suffered during the Manning era because the team focused so much of its payroll on offense with Manning, James, Harrison, Wayne, Dilger and others, plus a top offensive line featuring Tarik Glenn. To have such a strong defense this year, the Chiefs were lacking in offensive weapons but Mahomes made it work. 

 

DL in the middle was weak, LBs were weak vs the run and a lot of times Freeney and Mathis were put in 3rd and short situations limiting what they could do, special teams was the weakest till maybe Vinatieri gave it a bit of respectability. So, the margin for error for Peyton was little. If he made a mistake, we weren't getting the ball back easily. Plus, if they had to pin us deep, they could and if they had to get a good kickoff return, they more often could under the Polian era.

 

But Peyton had his own flaws we could not cover come playoff time, we did the best with what was put together. It clearly says something when Peyton with the Broncos went to 2 SBs in 4 years while he went to 2 SBs in 13 years with the Colts, while finishing 1-1 in both places. Elway went for a "win now" mode acquisition of FAs while Polian's excessive caution hurt the Colts overall, IMO. No wonder Polian's teams went 0-4 with him as Bills GM because he didn't invest in the trenches as much. Now, we have a guy in Ballard who invests plenty in trenches but not much on outside skill positions. We just want a GM that would give us the right combination. At least our special teams is not neglected under Ballard.

[smittywerb]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

10 year 450 million dollar contract.   That's quite the hometown discount

Yup, $45 million per year for what Mahomes does is a steal.  And we all know that contract is going to constantly get restructured to fit the team’s needs.  

[smittywerb]

1 hour ago, BeanDiasucci said:

Yes. The Colts defense suffered during the Manning era because the team focused so much of its payroll on offense with Manning, James, Harrison, Wayne, Dilger and others, plus a top offensive line featuring Tarik Glenn. To have such a strong defense this year, the Chiefs were lacking in offensive weapons but Mahomes made it work. 

I agree, polian did play a role by building the team to play with a lead.  Which worked when it worked and didn’t when it didn’t. 
 

 

[JediXMan]

Unlike the Chiefs it seems like the 49ers under utilize their TEs. Kittle is too much of a good player to not be more of the game plan.

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, smittywerb said:

Yup, $45 million per year for what Mahomes does is a steal.  And we all know that contract is going to constantly get restructured to fit the team’s needs.  

Peyton restructured his contract several times as well

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Mahomes is 28...if you don't like him,you may want to stop watching the NFL for the next10 years. MVP isn't the goal, it's an award, an opinion award. Championships are the goal .

 

Just because I still think Peyton was better doesn't mean I don't like Mahomes. I like Mahomes actually. People get confused, I don't rank players on like or hate, I rank who was better otherwise I would not have Tom Brady at #1.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 hours ago, BeanDiasucci said:

I never understand your use of Homer in laughing at others. Isn't the character of Homer Simpson intended to be a relatable but incredibly stupid person? 

He is always the smartest person in the room at the end of most episodes, he just plays dumb. Yes, that is my way of laughing at people when they are wrong. I use him instead of a silly Emoji. I still use the Emoji at times.

[2006Coltsbestever]

People can disagree with my rankings all they want but I still have Peyton 3rd but it is by a hair over Mahomes now. Championships are a huge measuring stick but so are League MVP's. You guys can poo poo League MVP's all you want but Peyton has won 5 to Mahomes 2 and that award is real difficult to win. IMO, Mahomes still needs to win another League MVP which he may very well do before I put him ahead of Peyton. Mahomes only has 1 more SB  win (3-2), he should win more but it is not a given. Tom Brady went from 2005-2013 without winning 1.

 

My all-time list still remains (SB era only 1966-2023)

1. Tom Brady

2. Joe Montana 

3. Peyton Manning by a hair

4. Pat Mahomes

5. John Elway (Johnny Unitas is #5 if all era's are included)

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 hours ago, King Colt said:

🤪

[King Colt]

13 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

 

[smittywerb]

12 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Peyton restructured his contract several times as well

with us?  I know he did with the broncos but I don’t think he did with us.  And even when I google for a pay cut he took with us, I don’t see anything.  I even saw this article from 2011 calling him selfish lol:

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/633485-indianapolis-colts-peyton-manning-has-become-the-most-selfish-player-in-the-nfl

 

and if he did take a pay cut with us, it was after we made him the highest paid player in history at that time.  It’s a difference between taking a discount and pay cut (ex.  Mahomes, Brady) and becoming the highest paid player in history and restructuring (ex. Manning)

[csmopar]

16 hours ago, smittywerb said:

Yeah sorry colts fan, Mahomes is definitely top 3 at this point.

 

its Brady, Montana, Mahomes.  Mahomes is going to pass Montana, the question is will he pass brady.

 

i see people saying Peyton would’ve won more if he had a defense for majority of his career, and that may be true.  But the reason why Mahomes has a defense is because Mahomes is willing to take pay cuts to keep his team intact.  Not saying manning wouldn’t but he didn’t say he would either.  He has a right to his money but I’m just saying ya know.

Actually manning did take cuts more than once to allow it. 
 

Mahomes is great, definitely a top 5 all time. And for me, any of the top 5 could be the GOAT. It’s all subjective to the lense used. 

[throwing BBZ]

17 hours ago, BeanDiasucci said:

Yes. The Colts defense suffered during the Manning era because the team focused so much of its payroll on offense with Manning, James, Harrison, Wayne, Dilger and others, plus a top offensive line featuring Tarik Glenn. To have such a strong defense this year, the Chiefs were lacking in offensive weapons but Mahomes made it work. 

 

 Polian should have built a defense and strong running game. Instead he succumbed to Mannings desire to be the greatest MVP winning player of all time. And he became the "KING" of one and done. 7 times he led us into the playoffs and couldn't win a single game. And all the Interceptions, the happy feet under pressure. Mahomes was chasing Brady with his over 200 passes without a playoff int.

 In Mannings Colts SB winning playoffs he had 7 int. Haha! We won in spite of his Super brain and Golden arm. Oops, how about those Saints!

[smittywerb]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

Actually manning did take cuts more than once to allow it. 

idk man, I’m not seeing anything and I was a fan of the team back then.  I remember him getting his money (rightfully so).  I remember his last contract with us making him the highest paid player in history.  
 

Mahomes contract is large but extremely team friendly.  And Tom Brady took multiple pay cuts and restructures and has been reported many times.  Manning, I can’t find anything and don’t remember anything.  What I’m getting at is restructuring your contract while being the highest paid player isn’t the same as taking a pay cut and restructuring.  

[bluebombers87]

Prior to this Super Bowl I’d say it was easily Manning over Mahomes. After this past Sunday, I’d say we now can have a more nuanced discussion.

 

Mahomes has never had to battle any real adversity. This was the first year he didn’t have all pro WRs and it showed in the regular season. Post season, he was a slight return to form in the first two games but played pedestrian (as compared to his previous excursions). The defense really shone this year in the post season and had an outsized effect on their success.

 

Mahomes has a great coach in Andy Reid and up until this past season has had plenty of offensive help.

 

I think we need to let more play out to determine how great he is. He has a lot going for him with his situation in KC. Let’s revisit this when he has a new HC and the burdens of paying for legit players continues. The question should be is he a Terry Bradshaw or a Joe Montana?

[BlackTiger]

19 hours ago, chad72 said:

Where? Reddit?

Yeah

[chad72]

24 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

Yeah

 

You don't get sane users on Reddit, far too hit and miss. Go to the proper ArrowHeadPride forums or the SB Nation forums of a team, you generally find more moderation and more civil arguments like here.

[chad72]

1 hour ago, bluebombers87 said:

Prior to this Super Bowl I’d say it was easily Manning over Mahomes. After this past Sunday, I’d say we now can have a more nuanced discussion.

 

Mahomes has never had to battle any real adversity. This was the first year he didn’t have all pro WRs and it showed in the regular season. Post season, he was a slight return to form in the first two games but played pedestrian (as compared to his previous excursions). The defense really shone this year in the post season and had an outsized effect on their success.

 

Mahomes has a great coach in Andy Reid and up until this past season has had plenty of offensive help.

 

I think we need to let more play out to determine how great he is. He has a lot going for him with his situation in KC. Let’s revisit this when he has a new HC and the burdens of paying for legit players continues. The question should be is he a Terry Bradshaw or a Joe Montana?

 

Terry Bradshaw? Only this year would qualify for a Terry Bradshaw because of the Chiefs D but still Peyton had his best D in 2005 and still stunk it vs the Steelers while Mahomes seized opportunities to be clutch. 

 

He won the last 2 SBs without Tyreek Hill, not a single All Pro WR for 2 of his 3 SBs. But then, I do remember based on your history, and conversation before the first Chiefs vs 49ers SB distinctly that you were never a fan of his style of play or the hype he got. I am definitely not expecting any praise of Mahomes from your end. The fact that you even admitted that we can have a nuanced discussion is a miracle, IMO.  

 

Manning got shortchanged by Bill Polian and Tony Dungy on a few fronts with the roster construction on D and special teams, no doubt but it was Manning that played with All Pro WRs for pretty much his ENTIRE playoff career. 

 

 

[runthepost]

1 hour ago, bluebombers87 said:

Prior to this Super Bowl I’d say it was easily Manning over Mahomes. After this past Sunday, I’d say we now can have a more nuanced discussion.

 

Mahomes has never had to battle any real adversity. This was the first year he didn’t have all pro WRs and it showed in the regular season. Post season, he was a slight return to form in the first two games but played pedestrian (as compared to his previous excursions). The defense really shone this year in the post season and had an outsized effect on their success.

 

Mahomes has a great coach in Andy Reid and up until this past season has had plenty of offensive help.

 

I think we need to let more play out to determine how great he is. He has a lot going for him with his situation in KC. Let’s revisit this when he has a new HC and the burdens of paying for legit players continues. The question should be is he a Terry Bradshaw or a Joe Montana?

He won MVP last year with no all pro receivers and the superbowl 

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

You don't get sane users on Reddit, far too hit and miss. Go to the proper ArrowHeadPride forums or the SB Nation forums of a team, you generally find more moderation and more civil arguments like here.

 

Reddit functions as some type of hybrid social media app/discussion forum. A large issue with sports social media in general these days is how disrespectful people are from the comforts of their own anonymity.

 

It's a bit jarring at first when you encounter this. And it really makes for a difficult debate. Plus, there tends to be a lot of groupthink that spawns out of sports discussion on these apps.

 

I think it might be a generational thing. Some sports social media sites are overrun with active Gen Z members. The Colts sub reddit and Twitter are probably good examples. I think I saw a chart recently of fanbases with growth of younger fans...and Colts were top 5. So if that is true, those younger fans have to go somewhere to actively talk about the Colts.

 

Not to sound like the "get off my lawn" type...I am not even that far from the age group. But I get the sense that Gen Z has played a big role in this. 

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, bluebombers87 said:

Prior to this Super Bowl I’d say it was easily Manning over Mahomes. After this past Sunday, I’d say we now can have a more nuanced discussion.

 

Mahomes has never had to battle any real adversity. This was the first year he didn’t have all pro WRs and it showed in the regular season. Post season, he was a slight return to form in the first two games but played pedestrian (as compared to his previous excursions). The defense really shone this year in the post season and had an outsized effect on their success.

 

Mahomes has a great coach in Andy Reid and up until this past season has had plenty of offensive help.

 

I think we need to let more play out to determine how great he is. He has a lot going for him with his situation in KC. Let’s revisit this when he has a new HC and the burdens of paying for legit players continues. The question should be is he a Terry Bradshaw or a Joe Montana?

 

When the Colts won the SB, Manning had to beat Trent Green, a 33 year-old Steve McNair and a Rex Grossman. Other than the AFFCG against Brady, it was a very easy path.

 

This year, with what was suppose to be the weakest KC team yet, Mahomes had to beat Tua, Allen, Lamar and Purdy. All top 7 QBs this year in EPA. 

 

Yes, the defense helped him, but I just don't know what else he can do. By metrics and possibly record, he's on pace to be the best regular season and playoff QB that ever played. 

 

I love Peyton, but the only real argument left for Mahomes is will he surpass Brady as the greatest QB. 

[jvan1973]

4 hours ago, smittywerb said:

with us?  I know he did with the broncos but I don’t think he did with us.  And even when I google for a pay cut he took with us, I don’t see anything.  I even saw this article from 2011 calling him selfish lol:

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/633485-indianapolis-colts-peyton-manning-has-become-the-most-selfish-player-in-the-nfl

 

and if he did take a pay cut with us, it was after we made him the highest paid player in history at that time.  It’s a difference between taking a discount and pay cut (ex.  Mahomes, Brady) and becoming the highest paid player in history and restructuring (ex. Manning)

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/manning-agrees-to-restructure-contract/#:~:text=Peyton Manning has agreed to,million in salary cap space.

 

 

[Tsarquise]

44 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

When the Colts won the SB, Manning had to beat Trent Green, a 33 year-old Steve McNair and a Rex Grossman. Other than the AFFCG against Brady, it was a very easy path.

 

This year, with what was suppose to be the weakest KC team yet, Mahomes had to beat Tua, Allen, Lamar and Purdy. All top 7 QBs this year in EPA. 

 

Yes, the defense helped him, but I just don't know what else he can do. By metrics and possibly record, he's on pace to be the best regular season and playoff QB that ever played. 

 

I love Peyton, but the only real argument left for Mahomes is will he surpass Brady as the greatest QB. 

Dvoa says otherwise:

 

 

[chad72]

45 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

When the Colts won the SB, Manning had to beat Trent Green, a 33 year-old Steve McNair and a Rex Grossman. Other than the AFFCG against Brady, it was a very easy path.

 

This year, with what was suppose to be the weakest KC team yet, Mahomes had to beat Tua, Allen, Lamar and Purdy. All top 7 QBs this year in EPA. 

 

Yes, the defense helped him, but I just don't know what else he can do. By metrics and possibly record, he's on pace to be the best regular season and playoff QB that ever played. 

 

I love Peyton, but the only real argument left for Mahomes is will he surpass Brady as the greatest QB. 

 

Ravens, Bears and Patriots were the Top 3 Ds in the ENTIRE league in 2006. Let us not shortchange Peyton's only SB as a Colt.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2006/opp.htm

 

I agree with Mahomes' SB argument but it was not an easy path, the Colts path to our only SB under Peyton.

 

[Yoshinator]

6 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

Dvoa says otherwise:

 

 

Notice the Pats aren't on here at all. They were the reason most of the teams on this list are on the list. They had to beat the Pats in those years, and the Pats didn't have to beat themselves. The Colts in 2006 as the big example for us. We had to beat them in the AFC title game. That was harder than the SB Vs the Bears.

[chad72]

22 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

Notice the Pats aren't on here at all. They were the reason most of the teams on this list are on the list. They had to beat the Pats in those years, and the Pats didn't have to beat themselves. The Colts in 2006 as the big example for us. We had to beat them in the AFC title game. That was harder than the SB Vs the Bears.

 

That list also showed you how improbable a run was for Eli Manning to take down the undefeated Patriots, barely eclipsed by Mahomes and The Chiefs this year. Plus Eli Manning did it ALL on the road while Mahomes had 1 home game.

 

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

That list also showed you how improbable a run was for Eli Manning to take down the undefeated Patriots, barely eclipsed by Mahomes and The Chiefs this year. Plus Eli Manning did it ALL on the road while Mahomes had 1 home game.

Yeah, Eli in 2007 may have been the greatest underdog playoff story of the modern era,

[chad72]

8 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

Yeah, Eli in 2007 may have been the greatest underdog playoff story of the modern era,

 

Tampa Bay in 2020, my biggest gripe was Tom Brady during Covid times, had an easier time with literally no crowd in the Commanders and Saints games. I think they allowed a little crowds only during the NFCCG vs Packers but it still wasn't full. Brady had never won 2 games on the road consecutively in the playoffs before, EVER if I could remember, and the Covid stripping crowds was a factor for them to operate their offense at a high level and give him his only SB with Tampa.

 

Go look at crowd shots in the Commanders and Saints and Packers stadiums while they kicked FGs, barren. We all know how loud the Saints dome could get when it is filled. It was a huge advantage for Brady and his teammates being able to hear his offensive calls. HFA wasn't truly applicable during that season and when it came to the SB, Florida never followed Covid crowd rules, so Tampa Bay stadium was packed, go figure.  

[Yoshinator]

5 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Tampa Bay in 2020, my biggest gripe was Tom Brady during Covid times, had an easier time with literally no crowd in the Commanders and Saints games. I think they allowed a little crowds only during the NFCCG vs Packers but it still wasn't full. Brady had never won 2 games on the road consecutively in the playoffs before, EVER if I could remember, and the Covid stripping crowds was a factor for them to operate their offense at a high level and give him his only SB with Tampa.

 

Go look at crowd shots in the Commanders and Saints and Packers stadiums while they kicked FGs, barren. We all know how loud the Saints dome could get when it is filled. It was a huge advantage for Brady and his teammates being able to hear his offensive calls. HFA wasn't truly applicable during that season and when it came to the SB, Florida never followed Covid crowd rules, so Tampa Bay stadium was packed, go figure.  

That's an amazing stat with the bolded. I actually never knew that, but Brady was always a top seed in the playoffs with the AFC East being a cakewalk that it doesn't surprise me. He was very fortunate on Tampa then. I didn't even think about Covid taking away the crowd from him. That whole playoff year was set up perfectly for him.