Will Mahomes be viewed as a better all time QB than Peyton if he wins this years SuperBowl?

[AwesomeAustin]

59 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The problem with sites like NFL Reddit, Youtube, Yahoo, and when you could post on ESPN, half the people that post on those sites are either trolls, prisoner of the moment people, or are 30 years old or younger. Some of the posts I have read on those sites are baffling when it comes to talking about Football or Basketball. The same people that post on those sites will bash Mahomes if he loses next week and say he choked.

 

Of course you are going to have some biased people toward Manning in here because it is a Colts website, in saying that, it is very justified to say that Manning should still rank higher than Mahomes as of now. Let's assume Mahomes wins the SB this season, it still isn't enough for him to pass Manning when you factor in Manning has won 2 (it would be 3-2 Mahomes there), been to the same amount of SBs = 4-4, but he has 5 League MVPs to Mahomes 2. Statistically, Manning still holds the record for most Yards and TDs in a season as well and they are playing 17 games now, not 16. Mahomes has had 3 seasons (2021-2023) where it has been a 17 games season and still hasn't beat Manning's records which was set back in 2013.

Mahomes also needs to rack up career stats and that will take time. There is an argument that Mahomes has been the better postseason QB than Manning. Mahomes is definitely on pace to be a top 3 QB all time but honestly, he isnt even top 10 yet if his career ended after this season. All time stats mean something but I have no doubt he will break some career records by the time he hangs it up. 

[chad72]

34 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Mahomes also needs to rack up career stats and that will take time. There is an argument that Mahomes has been the better postseason QB than Manning. Mahomes is definitely on pace to be a top 3 QB all time but honestly, he isnt even top 10 yet if his career ended after this season. All time stats mean something but I have no doubt he will break some career records by the time he hangs it up. 

 

Yeah, he needs 5 more years at this level. 

 

3 MVPs and 3 SBs would be hard to argue against eventually especially if one is a back-to-back which puts him alone with Brady for company there in the salary cap era, plus he already has 2 road playoff wins, same as Peyton (SB road team doesn't count). 6 straight AFCCG appearances, behind only Tom Brady who had 8 straight ones (2011-2018). Over the first 7 years, he is even better than Brady but the next 16 years, Brady got 4 SBs, 3 MVPs and a run of 8 AFCCG appearances straight.

 

He is the "athlete growing up to be cerebral" evolution that will be expected to be the next standard but we all know, great teams win SBs and this current Chiefs team, like some Patriots teams, is not even dependent on Mahomes' heroics this year. As we can all clearly see, based on the best D by far of Mahomes' career he is playing alongside, it reminds you of some of the early Brady SB runs, to be honest. 

[BlackTiger]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The problem with sites like NFL Reddit, Youtube, Yahoo, and when you could post on ESPN, half the people that post on those sites are either trolls, prisoner of the moment people, or are 30 years old or younger.

Its true and the older I get the less I like those sites too.  

 

Personally I dont think he has passed Peyton but its note worthy that the conversation is starting for someone who has played like 6 years.  If he does win the next one more and more people will be ready to say he has passed him.

 

Peyton was great at getting the most out of his team mates, while the Cheifs are not bad at this i think it comes more from Reid and not so much Patrick.  Peyton was an all time great at leadership and Mahomes is ok at it.

[gnet550]

On 1/29/2024 at 9:58 AM, runthepost said:

Title is a followed. Would Mahomes move past Peyton in the all time QB ladder if he wins the big game this year?

To me, this is a Lebron vs Jordan thing (I know this is going to open a can of worms lol).  In the end even if Mahomes has some better stats (ala Lebron) and even more rings (ala Lebron)...I would still take Peyton (ala Jordan) any day of the week. When Peyton and Jordan were in their respective leagues it was much more difficult to be an offensive star because teams were allowed to play defense.  In the NFL and NBA it has been made so much easier to score and put up stats. (The NBA is worse than the NFL by far)  I still believe if you gave Peyton the teams that Brady played with and gave Brady the teams Peyton played with then Peyton would be regarded as the best QB ever over Brady, and Brady would have maybe 1 or 2 rings....just my two cents.

[csmopar]

4 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

If the metric is revolutionary play, then he isn't better. But I'm not so sure that is the metric. 

That is why I ask. But Mahomes has also has a ways to go yet so we shall see

[Thunderbolt]

He's already viewed as better than P. Manning. 5-6 in the AFC Championship game, and 4-5 in the Super Bowl, and won two of them, and he's still under 30 yrs old.

[Dark Superman]

Patrick Mahomes should be counting his blessings that he didn't have to play in the same era as Peyton Manning. He wouldn't have lasted very long since guys were able to destroy the QB back then and not have to worry about getting a roughing the passer call every time they come within five yards of the QB so he can immediately turn to the officials with his arms out so they can cater to the league's golden boy. Having to sit through a KC game has become incredibly painful knowing you have to sit through three hours of Jim Nantz talking about how great he thinks Patrick Mahomes is. Then we have to sit through the constant whining and crying to the officials and watch them cater to him. I seriously didn't hate Tom Brady as much as I hate Patrick Mahomes. Plus his voice is so damn annoying and don't get me started on that stupid walk he does and that god-awful thing living on the top of his head.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 hours ago, Thunderbolt said:

He's already viewed as better than P. Manning. 5-6 in the AFC Championship game, and 4-5 in the Super Bowl, and won two of them, and he's still under 30 yrs old.

5-2 Peyton, league MVPs. That is an individual award, winning SBs is a team accomplishment. Mahomes is 4th, but not ahead of Peyton yet or Montana for that matter. If you just go by SB wins only, Brady will always be the GOAT, because nobody will ever win 7, not even Mahomes. 

 

I guess when it comes to the NBA, Bill Russell is the GOAT then (which he isn't) because he won 11 Championships, 5 more than Jordan, 7 more than Lebron which isn't even close. 

[NewColtsFan]

On 1/29/2024 at 11:48 AM, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

I said it before and I'm saying it again: Super Bowl wins is a poor measuring stick when talking about all time great players. 

 

There's so many things involved and needed to go to a Super Bowl.....and none less important than your market ability for the networks/advertisers to want you and your team to be there for them to pay and get paid the astronomical advertising rates.

Its a business and entertainment much more than a sport. 

 

The championship games,imo, are the most important games of the year because they determine who the participants are in the Big Game. And in the last 21 years the Cheater(brady) and Mahomes were in 18 championship games.....

.. ...so much for the NFL being set-up for parity. Not when it comes to the Big money games its not. 

 

 

 

The ads for the Super Bowl are sold out MONTHS  in advance!   The teams that reach the SB help determine the ratings, and that helps set the rates the following year.   But there are other factors involved as well.  
 

Your latest conspiracy theory doesn’t go anywhere. 
 

Oh.  Sorry.   Looks like I’m keeping receipts again.  

[AwesomeAustin]

I’m noticing several people bring up its a different era and the rules are different. People said the same thing when Brady, Peyton and Brees were amassing their stats. It was brought up several times how receivers weren’t allowed to be touched and could just run free. Also, I remember Peyton constantly whining to officials and they listened too. Star power means something in every league. 
 

These roughing the passer rules started getting stricter during the last era and it’s best for the game. Starting QBs go down and most teams are done and people stop watching. There is an exception here or there like the Colts this year, but for the most part teams are toast and ratings drop when the QB goes down. Cant really discount a player much bc they can only play when they play. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

59 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

The ads for the Super Bowl are sold out MONTHS  in advance!   The teams that reach the SB help determine the ratings, and that helps set the rates the following year.   But there are other factors involved as well.  
 

Your latest conspiracy theory doesn’t go anywhere. 
 

Oh.  Sorry.   Looks like I’m keeping receipts again.  

 

Man, when you going to wake up, or stop pretending you don't hear what so many others, not just me say??

 

I know you search the internet top to bottom for your stats and stories etc.... Don't you run up on what so many have been saying??? And every year there's more and more content about it. So much now that I wouldn't be surprised if your view is now the minority. 

And that's just the internet. Do you go on social media? I don't, except for here, but I'm told its all over Facebook, Twitter, tiktok, etc.... And then there's the people talking and joking at sports places to watch sports like bars and restaurants. 

But you and anyone else can believe in anything you want, even Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. 

 

But, you know for a fact that I have been right for years and years while you, to put it nicely, have not. 

I predicted in June that the Colts AND Texans would contend for the division with about 9 wins each. Most here expected or at least hoped to lose enough games to be able to draft Marvin Jr.

I know a few others here also  predicted that their team the  colts would win 9-10 games. 

I'm sure at least a few homer Texan fans in Houston predicted their team would do well. 

But how many Colts & Texan fans predicted that both teams would contend for the division??? 

Did you see any?? Did any of the Talking Heads, who you regard so highly predict that the colts and Texans would both contend for the division. I'm guessing a Big No. 

I may have been one of very few in the country to properly make that prediction?

 

So cut a long story short I was right......AGAIN LoL.  Like I have been for years and years. 

 

And, btw, what did you say about the colts in '23???

Oh, you said something along the lines that "can't we tell by ballards moves that the Colts are tanking for draft picks for '24". .....you remember???

Wrong again my friend. 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

23 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Man, when you going to wake up, or stop pretending you don't hear what so many others, not just me say??

 

I know you search the internet top to bottom for your stats and stories etc.... Don't you run up on what so many have been saying??? And every year there's more and more content about it. So much now that I wouldn't be surprised if your view is now the minority. 

And that's just the internet. Do you go on social media? I don't, except for here, but I'm told its all over Facebook, Twitter, tiktok, etc.... And then there's the people talking and joking at sports places to watch sports like bars and restaurants. 

But you and anyone else can believe in anything you want, even Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. 

 

But, you know for a fact that I have been right for years and years while you, to put it nicely, have not. 

I predicted in June that the Colts AND Texans would contend for the division with about 9 wins each. Most here expected or at least hoped to lose enough games to be able to draft Marvin Jr.

I know a few others here also  predicted that their team the  colts would win 9-10 games. 

I'm sure at least a few homer Texan fans in Houston predicted their team would do well. 

But how many Colts & Texan fans predicted that both teams would contend for the division??? 

Did you see any?? Did any of the Talking Heads, who you regard so highly predict that the colts and Texans would both contend for the division. I'm guessing a Big No. 

I may have been one of very few in the country to properly make that prediction?

 

So cut a long story short I was right......AGAIN LoL.  Like I have been for years and years. 

 

And, btw, what did you say about the colts in '23???

Oh, you said something along the lines that "can't we tell by ballards moves that the Colts are tanking for draft picks for '24". .....you remember???

Wrong again my friend. 

 

 

Wow….  You really believe that nonsense? 
 

It’s called exceeding expectations,  that’s what the Colts did.   And some teams fell short of expectations.   That happens every year in sports too, not just the NFL, but all sports.   I don’t know why you don’t know this, but you don’t.
 

Did you not notice that Chris Ballard made ZERO major moves to try and help the Colts this year.  He signed none of the name free agents during the season that this community called for.   Zero. 

So,  I have these pesky things known as facts.  While you continue to use your opinion.   
 

But what you think you know is astounding.  You actually wrote that I have known you’ve been right all along for years.  Your words.  And you actually believe that.   I’ll simply be diplomatic and say the exact opposite is true.   180 degrees opposite,  that’s how far away you and I are on most issues.   You and I might agree on a small number of issues from time to time.  But they are the exception and not the rule.   Sorry. 
 

I’ll give you credit for this one thing….   With most people if you call them a conspiracy theory guy they get defensive and deny it.   Not you.  You freely admit it.  You lean into it.   You warmly embrace it.  Good luck with that. 
 

[Dark Superman]

Why are we even having this conversation?

[shakedownstreet]

If Mahomes never played another game, he'd be viewed as the greatest flash in the pan talent ever seen. That's not the same as Mt Rushmore all-time great

[Tsarquise]

3 hours ago, shakedownstreet said:

If Mahomes never played another game, he'd be viewed as the greatest flash in the pan talent ever seen. That's not the same as Mt Rushmore all-time great

You're really out of touch. 

[BlackTiger]

11 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If you just go by SB wins only, Brady will always be the GOAT, because nobody will ever win 7, not even Mahomes. 

 

I could see them getting 5, 7 is a lot.  Idk if reid will stick around long enough for that and you cant really find a better coach than him.  

 

Patrick is 28, and will probably lose some mobility in his 30s like pretty much everyone does.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, shakedownstreet said:

If Mahomes never played another game, he'd be viewed as the greatest flash in the pan talent ever seen. That's not the same as Mt Rushmore all-time great

Sorry I disagree with you here. I think he is a Mt Rushmore QB already. I just don't think he is better than Peyton yet. Brady - even though I think to this day he cheated in the 2014 AFC Title Game, Montana, Peyton, and Mahomes is my Mt Rushmore. That is going by Stats, overall wins, SB wins, League MVP's, how much a player has changed the game, and my eye test. 

[shasta519]

Here is where Mahomes ranks all-time:

• Second-best win % in the regular season
• Best win % in the playoffs (at least 10 games)
• Second-best passer rating in the regular season (by .1)
• Best passer rating in the playoffs 

The dude is Rodgers in the regular seasons level WITH Tom Brady's playoff success (and better stats). He will surpass Manning sooner than later. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

I could see them getting 5, 7 is a lot.  Idk if reid will stick around long enough for that and you cant really find a better coach than him.  

 

Patrick is 28, and will probably lose some mobility in his 30s like pretty much everyone does.

If he wins this year, I would put the over/under at 4.5, that is fair. If he loses, I would move that to 3.5.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

Here is where Mahomes ranks all-time:

• Second-best win % in the regular season
• Best win % in the playoffs (at least 10 games)
• Second-best passer rating in the regular season (by .1)
• Best passer rating in the playoffs 

The dude is Rodgers in the regular seasons level WITH Tom Brady's playoff success (and better stats). He will surpass Manning sooner than later. 

He very well could pass Peyton, IMO not yet though. To me I give League MVPs a lot of weight is why. Some don't, but not sure why they don't because it is an individual award and who the media thinks is the best player in the league. Aaron Rodgers will always be better than Drew Brees in my mind because he has won 4 League MVPs, Brees never won 1. Both have won 1 SB. 

[Myles]

4 hours ago, shakedownstreet said:

If Mahomes never played another game, he'd be viewed as the greatest flash in the pan talent ever seen. That's not the same as Mt Rushmore all-time great

" flash in the pan" ?

He's been doing it for years now.   I notice many say he need to extend his longevity to move up.   I agree with that to a point.  H and most others.is career stats are better than brady in almost every category.  From Yards per game, YPC TD %, passer rating, sack %.   I like the eye test better than stat comparisons of different players. 

[shasta519]

6 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

I could see them getting 5, 7 is a lot.  Idk if reid will stick around long enough for that and you cant really find a better coach than him.  

 

Patrick is 28, and will probably lose some mobility in his 30s like pretty much everyone does.

 

But I bet he retires far earlier than Brady. The ring argument will make Brady the greatest, but not the best QB. 

 

The AFC seems more competitive now than it was during the first NE run and certainly the most recent NE run (2014-2018). When NE went to 4 SBS and won 3 from 2014-2018, here are some of the AFC teams they beat:

• BAL and Flacco
• IND and Luck (coached by Pagano)
• HOU and Osweiler
• PIT and Big Ben
• TEN and Mariota
• JAC and Bortles

The AFCS was basically a layup back then for NE.

 

Not to diminish what NE has accomplished, I just think that going forward, the competition in the AFC will make it very difficult for Mahomes to approach the number of SB appearances or rings that Brady has. Every year, he's likely going to be battling 2-3 of Lamar, Allen, Herbert, Burrow, Stroud, Tua, Lawrence, etc. every playoff to get back. You also have guys like AR, Levis, as well as some talented rookies who will emerge.

 

Just this year, he beat Tua, Allen and Lamar, which IMO is as impressive than any run that NE made in the AFC.

[shasta519]

22 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He very well could pass Peyton, IMO not yet though. To me I give League MVPs a lot of weight is why. Some don't, but not sure why they don't because it is an individual award and who the media thinks is the best player in the league. Aaron Rodgers will always be better than Drew Brees in my mind because he has won 4 League MVPs, Brees never won 1. Both have won 1 SB. 

 

I don't know. MVP just seems much harder to win now than before. Maybe not this past year, but Mahomes had two seasons where he didn't win MVP that would have possibly been unanimous back in the 2000s.

[2006Coltsbestever]

15 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

I don't know. MVP just seems much harder to win now than before. Maybe not this past year, but Mahomes had two seasons where he didn't win MVP that would have possibly been unanimous back in the 2000s.

I don't know if I agree with that. Peyton had to be better than Favre, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben, and Rivers who was no slouch either most of his career to win 5. I could easily argue, Peyton should have won 7 or 8. Back then, the NFL was even giving the League MVP to RBs. 2005 Shaun Alexander won League MVP, 2006 LT won League MVP, 2012 Peterson won League MVP. Peyton could have won any of those years. Peyton was winning so many that the league was just trying to find ways to give it to someone else, that is how comical it was getting. 

[Yoshinator]

I will say it's sad that the Chiefs have gotten more out of Mahomes already than the Colts got out of Peyton in his 14 years here. Just more proof that we wasted his potential and got minimum results from an all-time great QB. 

[shasta519]

16 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't know if I agree with that. Peyton had to be better than Favre, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben, and Rivers who was no slouch either most of his career to win 5. I could easily argue, Peyton should have won 7 or 8. Back then, the NFL was even giving the League MVP to RBs. 2005 Shaun Alexander won League MVP, 2006 LT won League MVP, 2012 Peterson won League MVP. Peyton could have won any of those years. Peyton was winning so many that the league was just trying to find ways to give it to someone else, that is how comical it was getting. 

 

Manning winning 7-8 MVPs would sort of prove my point. 

 

Mahomes has won 2/6 MVPs in the league so far (2018, 2022). The seasons that he didn't we saw insane seasons from Lamar (2019) and Rodgers (2020-21)...and then this year.

 

In 2019 and 2020, Mahomes put up a better season than any but Manning's 2004 MVP season. The closest he got to an MVP in those years was 3rd.

 

And Mahomes' 2021 season was about on par with Manning's 2009 MVP season. 

 

I just don't think we can use MVPs to decide the order of QB greats. But let's see where Mahomes finishes first.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

Manning winning 7-8 MVPs would sort of prove my point. 

 

Mahomes has won 2/6 MVPs in the league so far (2018, 2022). The seasons that he didn't we saw insane seasons from Lamar (2019) and Rodgers (2020-21)...and then this year.

 

In 2019 and 2020, Mahomes put up a better season than any but Manning's 2004 MVP season. The closest he got to an MVP in those years was 3rd.

 

And Mahomes' 2021 season was about on par with Manning's 2009 MVP season. 

 

I just don't think we can use MVPs to decide the order of QB greats. But let's see where Mahomes finishes first.

I just don't only use League MVPs but it is a factor - huge difference. Of course overall wins which Peyton has 200 in his career and SB wins factor in as well, Peyton did win 2. Peyton also still holds the record for most Passing Yards and TDs in 1 season too, and he did it in a 16-game season. Mahomes has had 3 chances to break those records and has failed. 

 

I think just using SB wins as the only measuring stick to rank QBs is a bit lame/shortsided thinking considering Doug Williams, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, and Nick Foles have won 1 and QBs like Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, and Philip Rivers never even won 1. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

22 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Wow….  You really believe that nonsense? 
 

It’s called exceeding expectations,  that’s what the Colts did.   And some teams fell short of expectations.   That happens every year in sports too, not just the NFL, but all sports.   I don’t know why you don’t know this, but you don’t.
 

Did you not notice that Chris Ballard made ZERO major moves to try and help the Colts this year.  He signed none of the name free agents during the season that this community called for.   Zero. 

So,  I have these pesky things known as facts.  While you continue to use your opinion.   
 

But what you think you know is astounding.  You actually wrote that I have known you’ve been right all along for years.  Your words.  And you actually believe that.   I’ll simply be diplomatic and say the exact opposite is true.   180 degrees opposite,  that’s how far away you and I are on most issues.   You and I might agree on a small number of issues from time to time.  But they are the exception and not the rule.   Sorry. 
 

I’ll give you credit for this one thing….   With most people if you call them a conspiracy theory guy they get defensive and deny it.   Not you.  You freely admit it.  You lean into it.   You warmly embrace it.  Good luck with that. 
 

 

Its sad if you truly think that way. 

And its interesting that you only try and call me out but ignore the masses that give similar opinions and the number is steadily growing and getting louder, but of course you won't address them......only me who continues to be right while you are not. You said the colts were tanking for draft picks while I said the colts and Texans would both contend for division and instead of acknowledging that fact(putting aside the others I've been right on for years) you explained it as  "exceeding expectations"......yeah maybe your expectations but not mine because I called it in June. 

 

Just like I, and orhers criticised Reich years ago while you defended him and added to your record number of 'sad emojis' in the process. And then your boy became the first HC to be embarrassing fired in season back-to-back!!! 

And remember you used to highly support Griggs until the vast majority turned against him and then he was fired. You have a track record of defending all colt employees and most in media and the talking heads while some of us critique those who we think warrant critiquing. 

 

Listen friend, I've  been a colt fan longer than you and seen more than you and see more and differently than you, like the growing population does too. 

 Its up to you If you want to try and learn what so many more now say OR you don't have to and keep your way of thinking, I don't care either way what you or what anyone else thinks. 

I'm just glad that so many now see the light. And I'm glad now that sports betting is now legal and can  kiss Vegas and off shore accounts good bye. 

 

And I don't want or like us getting into these disagreeing discussions. We may see things differently but were both colt fans for better or worse (usually worse but we now have AR5 and hopefully the football gods will now smile more on the colts, but not holding my breath lol) And we also have something else in common....you live in beautiful southern California while I live in beautiful tropical South Florida. I just bought a new budget friendly Fishing Watch and will curiously see if it helps. Haha 

[NewColtsFan]

8 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Its sad if you truly think that way. 

And its interesting that you only try and call me out but ignore the masses that give similar opinions and the number is steadily growing and getting louder, but of course you won't address them......only me who continues to be right while you are not. You said the colts were tanking for draft picks while I said the colts and Texans would both contend for division and instead of acknowledging that fact(putting aside the others I've been right on for years) you explained it as  "exceeding expectations"......yeah maybe your expectations but not mine because I called it in June. 

 

Just like I, and orhers criticised Reich years ago while you defended him and added to your record number of 'sad emojis' in the process. And then your boy became the first HC to be embarrassing fired in season back-to-back!!! 

And remember you used to highly support Griggs until the vast majority turned against him and then he was fired. You have a track record of defending all colt employees and most in media and the talking heads while some of us critique those who we think warrant critiquing. 

 

Listen friend, I've  been a colt fan longer than you and seen more than you and see more and differently than you, like the growing population does too. 

 Its up to you If you want to try and learn what so many more now say OR you don't have to and keep your way of thinking, I don't care either way what you or what anyone else thinks. 

I'm just glad that so many now see the light. And I'm glad now that sports betting is now legal and can  kiss Vegas and off shore accounts good bye. 

 

And I don't want or like us getting into these disagreeing discussions. We may see things differently but were both colt fans for better or worse (usually worse but we now have AR5 and hopefully the football gods will now smile more on the colts, but not holding my breath lol) And we also have something else in common....you live in beautiful southern California while I live in beautiful tropical South Florida. I just bought a new budget friendly Fishing Watch and will curiously see if it helps. Haha 

You actually believe that “the masses” are joining your views on conspiracy theories??    Holy Cow. 
 

Of course, you can’t document that.   It’s just more opinion.   The stunning part is that you believe it.   Good luck with that. 
 

[2006Coltsbestever]

44 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

You actually believe that “the masses” are joining your views on conspiracy theories??    Holy Cow. 
 

Of course, you can’t document that.   It’s just more opinion.   The stunning part is that you believe it.   Good luck with that. 
 

I am one that doesn't take it to the level of, games possibly being rigged like @LJpalmbeacher2or @Yoshinatordoes, having said that I do believe games can be altered by the REFS. SB 40 (Steelers vs Seahawks), it was one sided for the Steelers getting chincy key calls that killed scoring drives by Seattle twice, is a great example of that. Also, our game against the Browns this season is another great example - that was such nonsense and looked so fake, I almost quit watching. The NFC Title Game = Rams at Saints in 2018, that no call cost the Saints a trip to the SB. It robbed them out of at least an NFC Championship. How a REF can miss that call doesn't make sense, he was looking right it, REFS miss calls and are human but that was so obvious that a 10 yr kid would make that PI call. Did the league what the Rams in the SB? LA is a huge market. Sometimes, you do have to wonder about things. 

 

Regarding this season, the 2 best teams are in the SB IMO. Ravens just laid an egg and the Lions just choked in the 2nd Half. Mahomes is the best QB in the league and the 49ers have the best roster in the league, so it worked out this time.

[chad72]

Btw, I feel Brock Purdy should be the MVP for this year and not Lamar Jackson. Just my two cents.  

[Tsarquise]

14 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I just don't only use League MVPs but it is a factor - huge difference. Of course overall wins which Peyton has 200 in his career and SB wins factor in as well, Peyton did win 2. Peyton also still holds the record for most Passing Yards and TDs in 1 season too, and he did it in a 16-game season. Mahomes has had 3 chances to break those records and has failed. 

 

I think just using SB wins as the only measuring stick to rank QBs is a bit lame/shortsided thinking considering Doug Williams, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, and Nick Foles have won 1 and QBs like Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, and Philip Rivers never even won 1. 

Good point.

[jvan1973]

9 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Its sad if you truly think that way. 

And its interesting that you only try and call me out but ignore the masses that give similar opinions and the number is steadily growing and getting louder, but of course you won't address them......only me who continues to be right while you are not. You said the colts were tanking for draft picks while I said the colts and Texans would both contend for division and instead of acknowledging that fact(putting aside the others I've been right on for years) you explained it as  "exceeding expectations"......yeah maybe your expectations but not mine because I called it in June. 

 

Just like I, and orhers criticised Reich years ago while you defended him and added to your record number of 'sad emojis' in the process. And then your boy became the first HC to be embarrassing fired in season back-to-back!!! 

And remember you used to highly support Griggs until the vast majority turned against him and then he was fired. You have a track record of defending all colt employees and most in media and the talking heads while some of us critique those who we think warrant critiquing. 

 

Listen friend, I've  been a colt fan longer than you and seen more than you and see more and differently than you, like the growing population does too. 

 Its up to you If you want to try and learn what so many more now say OR you don't have to and keep your way of thinking, I don't care either way what you or what anyone else thinks. 

I'm just glad that so many now see the light. And I'm glad now that sports betting is now legal and can  kiss Vegas and off shore accounts good bye. 

 

And I don't want or like us getting into these disagreeing discussions. We may see things differently but were both colt fans for better or worse (usually worse but we now have AR5 and hopefully the football gods will now smile more on the colts, but not holding my breath lol) And we also have something else in common....you live in beautiful southern California while I live in beautiful tropical South Florida. I just bought a new budget friendly Fishing Watch and will curiously see if it helps. Haha 

What does any of that have to do with games being rigged?

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Btw, I feel Brock Purdy should be the MVP for this year and not Lamar Jackson. Just my two cents.  

Yeah, I feel it should be McCaffrey. He did everything possible to carry the 49ers to the 1 seed and the SB. Tired of the league just giving the award to a QB every year even when not deserved. Might as well call it the MVQB. lol.

[NewColtsFan]

9 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Its sad if you truly think that way. 

And its interesting that you only try and call me out but ignore the masses that give similar opinions and the number is steadily growing and getting louder, but of course you won't address them......only me who continues to be right while you are not. You said the colts were tanking for draft picks while I said the colts and Texans would both contend for division and instead of acknowledging that fact(putting aside the others I've been right on for years) you explained it as  "exceeding expectations"......yeah maybe your expectations but not mine because I called it in June. 

 

Just like I, and orhers criticised Reich years ago while you defended him and added to your record number of 'sad emojis' in the process. And then your boy became the first HC to be embarrassing fired in season back-to-back!!! 

And remember you used to highly support Griggs until the vast majority turned against him and then he was fired. You have a track record of defending all colt employees and most in media and the talking heads while some of us critique those who we think warrant critiquing. 

 

Listen friend, I've  been a colt fan longer than you and seen more than you and see more and differently than you, like the growing population does too. 

 Its up to you If you want to try and learn what so many more now say OR you don't have to and keep your way of thinking, I don't care either way what you or what anyone else thinks. 

I'm just glad that so many now see the light. And I'm glad now that sports betting is now legal and can  kiss Vegas and off shore accounts good bye. 

 

And I don't want or like us getting into these disagreeing discussions. We may see things differently but were both colt fans for better or worse (usually worse but we now have AR5 and hopefully the football gods will now smile more on the colts, but not holding my breath lol) And we also have something else in common....you live in beautiful southern California while I live in beautiful tropical South Florida. I just bought a new budget friendly Fishing Watch and will curiously see if it helps. Haha 

I’ve re-read your astounding post.   Much more needs to be addressed.  

I didn’t join the masses about Grigson because I had reached the same conclusion as they had.  I wasn’t late to the party.   I got off the Grigson train for entirely different reasons.   I had to start defending Grigson in 2014.   We had one fan who actually asked why the Colts hadn’t reached the SB after Luck had been our QB for two years.   Seriously.   And another fan was angry that Grigson traded day 3 picks to trade up for TY Hilton in 2012.   And that might’ve been Grigson’s best trade. 
 

After 2014, the Grigson haters wanted him fired.  He had gone 11-5 three straight years and a round further in the playoffs each year.   If you want to support those fans PLEASE, be my guest! 
 

Here’s why I stopped supporting Grigson.  See if you can spot the difference.  

 

When the HATE between Grigson and Pagano became public, and Irsay brought in a marriage counselor to try to patch them up, that started it.   When it became known that Grigson was ordering Pagano to play Trent Richardson so his trade wouldn’t look so bad,  that hurt his cause.   When it became known that Grigson squeezed Reggie Wayne on his 2012 contract,  and that Reggie said he walked past Grigson in the hallways for years and Grigson never even talk to him, that hurt his cause, and when it became known that Grigson played hardball with Pat McAfee on his big second contract and that Irsay had to step in and order Grigson to sign McAfee, all of that became the final straw.  
And not for nothing, but when he publicly blamed Andrew Luck’s upcoming big second contract as a reason he wasn’t going to be active in FA,  he certainly looked unprofessional.   With all that, Grigson had revealed himself to be a terrible GM not worth defending.   

 

These LJ, are legitimate professional reasons, and not an angry fan rant because we didn’t reach the Super Bowl in his first three years, or because the Colts went 8-8 in 2015.  (Gasp!).  
 

By the way, this community has a long history of reducing people they don’t like into one dimensional cartoon characters.  But I can still give Grigson a compliment.  In 2016, Grigson invested four draft picks, a 1, 3, 5, and 7 on the offensive line.   And that’s because draft experts had been predicting that the 2017 OL draft class was going to be the worst — ever.  Those four picks brought Kelly, Clark, Haeg and a smallish pocket center whose name escapes me.   So even people who deserved to be fired are capable of doing good things.   
 

Do you see the difference?   When there were legit reasons to no longer support Grigson,  I stopped supporting him.  Why you think you know me well enough to understand my thinking is a mystery.  But for some strange reason,  you do. 

 

[King Colt]

19 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

What does any of that have to do with games being rigged?

[2006Coltsbestever]

If you guys type in Dwight Smith NFL rigged per google about the NFL being rigged, it is an interesting read and video. He played in the NFL and won a SB while playing for the Bucs in 2002. I can't get the link to work but his comments blew me away. I actually don't criticize people for thinking fishy things go on, I would hate to think players are involved in it. Look at how the Seahawks/Pats SB ended, even Peyton's pass to Reggie in SB 44 looked odd, that is a mistake Peyton never makes but he is from New Orleans and so is Reggie, and they had Katrina happen as well. Seahawks not running Beast was worse though. Let's not give it to our best player for the win, let's throw it in traffic for craps and giggles. Pete Carroll isn't a dummy. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Here is a list of some QBs of that have won a SB:

 

1985 - Jim McMahon

1987 - Doug Williams

1990 - Jeff Hostetler and his sweet Mustache

1991 - Mark Rypien

2000 - Trent Dilfer

2002 - Brad Johnson

2012 - Joe Flacco

2017 - Nick Foles

 

Are any of those QBs better than Fran Tarkenton, Dan Fouts, Dan Marino, Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, or Philip Rivers who have never won 1. We all know the answer, so to the people just factoring SB wins as the only measuring stick to how great a QB is, you need to rethink how you rank QBs. Stats, League MVPs, and overall wins also matter besides just SB wins. 

[Tsarquise]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

I’ve re-read your astounding post.   Much more needs to be addressed.  

I didn’t join the masses about Grigson because I had reached the same conclusion as they had.  I wasn’t late to the party.   I got off the Grigson train for entirely different reasons.   I had to start defending Grigson in 2014.   We had one fan who actually asked why the Colts hadn’t reached the SB after Luck had been our QB for two years.   Seriously.   And another fan was angry that Grigson traded day 3 picks to trade up for TY Hilton in 2012.   And that might’ve been Grigson’s best trade. 
 

After 2014, the Grigson haters wanted him fired.  He had gone 11-5 three straight years and a round further in the playoffs each year.   If you want to support those fans PLEASE, be my guest! 
 

Here’s why I stopped supporting Grigson.  See if you can spot the difference.  

 

When the HATE between Grigson and Pagano became public, and Irsay brought in a marriage counselor to try to patch them up, that started it.   When it became known that Grigson was ordering Pagano to play Trent Richardson so his trade wouldn’t look so bad,  that hurt his cause.   When it became known that Grigson squeezed Reggie Wayne on his 2012 contract,  and that Reggie said he walked past Grigson in the hallways for years and Grigson never even talk to him, that hurt his cause, and when it became known that Grigson played hardball with Pat McAfee on his big second contract and that Irsay had to step in and order Grigson to sign McAfee, all of that became the final straw.  
And not for nothing, but when he publicly blamed Andrew Luck’s upcoming big second contract as a reason he wasn’t going to be active in FA,  he certainly looked unprofessional.   With all that, Grigson had revealed himself to be a terrible GM not worth defending.   

 

These LJ, are legitimate professional reasons, and not an angry fan rant because we didn’t reach the Super Bowl in his first three years, or because the Colts went 8-8 in 2015.  (Gasp!).  
 

By the way, this community has a long history of reducing people they don’t like into one dimensional cartoon characters.  But I can still give Grigson a compliment.  In 2016, Grigson invested four draft picks, a 1, 3, 5, and 7 on the offensive line.   And that’s because draft experts had been predicting that the 2017 OL draft class was going to be the worst — ever.  Those four picks brought Kelly, Clark, Haeg and a smallish pocket center whose name escapes me.   So even people who deserved to be fired are capable of doing good things.   
 

Do you see the difference?   When there were legit reasons to no longer support Grigson,  I stopped supporting him.  Why you think you know me well enough to understand my thinking is a mystery.  But for some strange reason,  you do. 

 

This is pretty good post. There is wayyyyy too much Grigson hate from Colts fans. 

 

Like you said, they talk about him like he is a one dimensional cartoon villain. 

 

They highlight every negative, and ignore or write off every good thing he did. Or they'll even make up things like: "He never drafted O-line". 

 

And if you defend him, they'll think You're saying he was a great GM. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

This is pretty good post. There is wayyyyy too much Grigson hate from Colts fans. 

 

Like you said, they talk about him like he is one dimensional cartoon villain. 

 

They highlight every negative, and ignore write off every good thing he did. Or they'll even make up things like: "He never drafted O-line". 

 

And if you defend him, they'll think You're saying he was a great GM. 

That is the problem with some in here, they read what they want to read. That is like when I was defending Minshew at times this year saying he helped us win, people took it as, I was saying the guy was great or something.