2022 Colts at Giants Post Game thoughts

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

28 minutes ago, DougDew said:

IMO, its an attitude that speaks to them not being a team anymore.  Why, because they expect a huge shake up and nobody knows who is going to be on this team long term or where their next job will be next season.  

 

That attitude started late last season and continued when they saw other AFC teams get better than the Colts did.   The offseason in the AFC was about the Haves vs the Have-Nots, and when it was apparent in preseason that they were going to be in the Have-Not group, its was tough for Frank to hold it together.   It was a matter of time before it fell apart, and you could see the angiush on Frank's face get worse every week as he realized the team was moving to a different attitude.

 

Nobody cares who the HC is now or what he says.  The players know that they could all possibly be short timers.  It a different attitude than going into an offseason building on the previous year.  That didn't happen this past offseason relative to the competitors.

This is a big reason players would not buy in on another vet.

[KB]

9 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Not last year and not this year. So  3 out of 5  years is not worth  20 mill a year.

He played well last year, just not this year. He wasn't as good as his first 3 years but last year he wasn't bad. Only 1 sack and was still moving people in the run game. He is making 10.2 million this year so not 20 mill.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

51 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Maybe. But I'm good with a rocky year in 23 with a rook QB learning (as long the OL issues are addressed). 

Not sure we'll need to move up much...

Right now, it's (draft order)

 

Texans - take a QB, likely Young

Bears - won't take QB. Likely stay there, and take the best DL

Cards - doubt they take a QB. They need a DL too big time

Broncos - doubt they take a QB (can't afford to). Probably trade back. IMO, several teams could move up for DL. Or QB... 

Colts - I like Stroud for Indy... But they could move up (doubt it), but more likely take the best QB left (Stroud, Levis, etc.)... 

 

Panthers, Rams, and Falcons could jump Indy with losses and an Indy win. Detroit has Rams pick, but Goff did good this year... ATL likely gives Ridder a chance. Panthers likely go QB. 

 

Or, Indy could go with Carr. Doubt it, but wouldn't cost much IMO. LVR already announced they are moving on, so leverage is reduced. LVR could also move up for a QB. 

 

Regardless, we have good pieces. If you go one by one (personnel), it's not horrible. Not great, but not horrible. A real HC (not interim) with a new scheme could make a difference. 

 

Seahawks have that broncos pick. No panthers and falcons can’t jump Indy. Rams are the only one.

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Why not?

 

According to you they haven’t changed the scheme from Franks.

You can't change a scheme on fly in mid season... holy cow.

 

And "pardon me Frank, you'll no longer make personnel decisions, Jeff will do that now...no big deal Frank, right?? "... double holy cow... 

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Seahawks have that broncos pick.

Yup. 

Geno has been a top 5/10 QB this year, and PB. On a one year deal. 

Could take a QB, resign Geno, or trade back. 

Most mocks have Seattle taking a Edge or 3T.

[bluebombers87]

7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

You can't change a scheme on fly in mid season... holy cow.

 

And "pardon me Frank, you'll no longer make personnel decisions, Jeff will do that now...no big deal Frank, right?? "... double holy cow... 

Right. So they (according to you) didn’t change schemes. So the evaluation can happen regardless of who is coaching as the schemes haven’t changed. 
 

And personnel aren’t invisible because they’re not on the field. They have these things called practices. You’re implying that good players would be kept from being evaluated because they aren’t starting. Good players/coaches can evaluate players regardless if they’re starters.

 

Also, I’d like to point out that earlier you cried about someone being passive aggressive to you. Your “holy cow/double holy cow”, “LMAO”, is exactly the kind of behavior that could be considered passive aggressive.

[OLD FAN MAN]

35 minutes ago, SOMDColtsfan said:

Know it's been stated many times this year already but watching Nelson get steamrolled just blows my mind.

his back has to be very bad, retirement may be near and for shaq also

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Yup. 

Geno has been a top 5/10 QB this year, and PB. On a one year deal. 

Could take a QB, resign Geno, or trade back. 

Most mocks have Seattle taking a Edge or 3T.

There have been a few guys become good QBs late.   Off the top of my head, Flutie, Gannon,  wade Wilson.  But I would get a QB if I were them.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

10 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Yup. 

Geno has been a top 5/10 QB this year, and PB. On a one year deal. 

Could take a QB, resign Geno, or trade back. 

Most mocks have Seattle taking a Edge or 3T.

You also said panthers and falcons can get ahead of colts. They can’t.

[bluephantom87]

11 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

Before we get too down on the Colts, they did go into this game with more than just one hand tied behind their backs.

• Their one offensive star, Jonathan Taylor, is on IR
• They are now on their 3rd string QB (which didn't make much difference)
• The OL is still unsettled
• Rodgers is out, and Facyson got hurt, leaving us with only one legitimate CB
• Sack leader Ngakoue on IR; we got zero sacks today
• Emotional leader and big-time playmaker Leonard has been out all year

Did we seriously think that we could win vs a playoff team with a 4th quarter preseason roster?

 

That being said, I don't want to hear Jim Irsay ever say "Jeff Saturday is a strong candidate" ever again.  No.  He's not.  It's nothing but misplaced nepotism that got him the interim HC position in the first place.  And it's been historically bad football for most of his tenure.  This is bad.  This is beyond bad.  This is Start Over bad.

 

I agree with you about Saturday who had no business getting the job in the first place. As far as injuries go it is part of the game in a collision sport. Some teams with good rosters can overcome MAJOR injuries like the Ravens and 49ers seem to do on a yearly basis. Our roster is already flawly built and thin with quality depth so the injuries are magnified when someone goes out.

 

Like anything in life time will EXPOSE anything that is bad and football is no different. A roster void of SPECIAL players at PREMIUM positions is just an average roster at best. A subpar gm can be judged by minimal results. Does he have a winning record? Is the team setup for long term success? Have division titles been won? Is it a SB contending team? Has he stabilized the MOST important position (qb) on the team? Does he have a top tier hc? John Lynch of the Niners is the ONLY first time gm whose been on the job six years that should be getting ANY type of praise NOT the overrated Ballard.

[csmopar]

11 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

his back has to be very bad, retirement may be near and for shaq also

Maybe

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

There have been a few guys become good QBs late.   Off the top of my head, Flutie, Gannon,  wade Wilson.  But I would get a QB if I were them.  

IIRC, Seattle has 2 first round picks. 

Like 3 and 13 or 14. 

They need DL help big time. And a lot help in other places like DBs and OL too. 

They could go in several paths. Lot of draft capital. 

I'd fix several places, resign Geno, then go with Hooker or Richardson later in the 2nd. I'm guessing Geno is eager to return. 

[masterlock]

3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

fun stuff...

Travelling, and watched after the 1Q....

Go Cards, Go Broncos!

It's good the Cards didn't win, since that would've improved Atlanta's draft position, and I think they'd take a quarterback if one were available. Whereas the Cardinals are locked into a big contract with Murray. But yes, go Broncos! (next week)

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, masterlock said:

It's good the Cards didn't win, since that would've improved Atlanta's draft position, and I think they'd take a quarterback if one were available. Whereas the Cardinals are locked into a big contract with Murray. But yes, go Broncos! (next week)

I think ATL gives Ridder a chance. Maybe lol... 

 

[Nickster]

14 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

IIRC, Seattle has 2 first round picks. 

Like 3 and 13 or 14. 

They need DL help big time. And a lot help in other places like DBs and OL too. 

They could go in several paths. Lot of draft capital. 

I'd fix several places, resign Geno, then go with Hooker or Richardson later in the 2nd. I'm guessing Geno is eager to return. 

I just think AZ, CHI, and SEA will be offered a lot to get into these 3 guys.  We and the 5 or so teams after us all need QBs.  So you are probably going to be able to get your guy trading down to 6 and pick up the extra draft capital.

[DougDew]

20 minutes ago, masterlock said:

It's good the Cards didn't win, since that would've improved Atlanta's draft position, and I think they'd take a quarterback if one were available. Whereas the Cardinals are locked into a big contract with Murray. But yes, go Broncos! (next week)

IMO, there is nothing about the way Ridder is playing that suggests he would not have the same trajectory as any of the QBs ATL would take with their first pick.   I think the big risk for us respective of ATL would be trading out, so the Colts do need to stay ahead of them.

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I just think AZ, CHI, and SEA will be offered a lot to get into these 3 guys.  We and the 5 or so teams after us all need QBs.  So you are probably going to be able to get your guy trading down to 6 and pick up the extra draft capital.

Perhaps, but with Watt retiring, AZ needs DL as does SEA and CHI.  Its possible each team views the other two teams as competition for Carter or the best EDGE (Anderson?) and staying put may be the best option.  They may feel that they cannot afford to drop below SEA (or whomever is right above IND) 

[Moosejawcolt]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

IMO, there is nothing about the way Ridder is playing that suggests he would not have the same trajectory as any of the QBs ATL would take with their first pick.   I think the big risk with ATL would be trading out, so the Colts do need to stay ahead of them.

I think we r going to find out how good this draft truly is. If Texans,Bears and Seattle want out that  is a red flag. Sure u  can say the Seattle has Geno and  Chicago has  Fields. However if Stroud, Young and Levi are elite, they will take one without  hesitation. If they don't then that worries me.

[RollerColt]

Just now, Moosejawcolt said:

I think we r going to find out how good this draft truly is. If Texans,Bears and Seattle want out that  is a red flag. Sure u  can say the Seattle has Geno and  Chicago has  Fields. However if Stroud, Young and Levi are elite, they will take one without  hesitation. If they don't then that worries me.

Playing Devils advocate, we’ve got to get a QB at some point. We can’t walk into next season with Nick and Sam… unless we plan to go 0-17…

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think we r going to find out how good this draft truly is. If Texans,Bears and Seattle want out that  is a red flag. Sure u  can say the Seattle has Geno and  Chicago has  Fields. However if Stroud, Young and Levi are elite, they will take one without  hesitation. If they don't then that worries me.

We are all looking at SEAs top 5 pick, but they have their own pick mid first round too.  I see them signing Geno and drafting Richardson as their elite future QB with that mid first.  That frees them up to do anything with their top 5 pick.

 

What are they, basically a .500 team?  When you have two nice first round picks, you can gamble with one of them, and Richardson has the makings of a boom type of pick.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

33 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I think all QBs are a bit of a gamble this year, so wouldn't pay much to move up.

One will be there for us. I just don't want Young due to height. 

IMO, Mocks will be all over the place in terms which QBs will be top 4 or 5 order. 

Definitely not a clear top 3-4

 

For what little I've seen I like Young and Stroud and think so far  a level higher than Levis or Duggan. I am not crazy about Young's  stature, of course, but I think he is supposed to be the most cerebral one which could trump his shortcomings, Lol. 

Stroud was impressive last night against the most NFL type defense in college.

Again, I haven't seen much of them so far so my opinion may change often  the closer the draft comes and I'll see what's happening with the colts. 

 

But what I'd like for the colts to do is target one they think is the one and go after him and not wait and hope they get lucky and the right one falls to them.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

9 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think we r going to find out how good this draft truly is. If Texans,Bears and Seattle want out that  is a red flag. Sure u  can say the Seattle has Geno and  Chicago has  Fields. However if Stroud, Young and Levi are elite, they will take one without  hesitation. If they don't then that worries me.

Well two of those teams probably don’t need QB.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, bluebombers87 said:

Why not?

 

According to you they haven’t changed the scheme from Franks.

Scheme.  That's funny.

 

The scheme and the personnel will change next year.  The Colts will probably do better next year than this year with a new scheme and some new players.

 

We will be sold the idea that since the GM is the same, but the team is doing better with a different coach, different scheme, and different players, that Frank was responsible for the players and that the scheme was bad. 

 

That foundation for that narrative is already being subtly built,  Don't buy it.

 

The truth is that these players do not fit into Frank's scheme very well and were not selected by Frank, other than something like a 4th round TE, and he was left to coach players that were ill fitting and could not do what he wanted to do very well.  So while its true that a new scheme might fit our young players better, the issue isn't the scheme, the issue is that the GM failed to get players who fit the scheme. 

 

Philly has stayed with the same scheme,  The difference between us and them is that their GM knows what kind of players fit their scheme, and got the HC the proper players, some of them before he even got there or immediately upon arriving.   Which is why Sirranni was hired....to continue the scheme and coach the same players. 

 

Their GM understands how the HC and players fit together in the scheme, where Frank was left to coach players that have good RAS scores, LOL.  

[Moosejawcolt]

Nor right now but they wil after 2024. Fields sucks and totally see Geno regressing. Geno I could be wrong bout but totally sure on Fields. My point is that if think  u have Mahonnes or Allen sitting there. U don't pass on him for Geno.

 

[ShuteAt168]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I remember years ago  Dungy talked bout surrounding a young player with talent and  that it was needed to make a  young qb  grow and be successful long  term. That is why I am not all in  on drafting a qb this year. I want the pieces in place  first. We need to get this Oline fixed a d fast. We need  talent at wr. I said it  before.  I would keep  Campbell and Pierce.  I let Taylor play out his deal. I do the same for Pittman.

 

I can see that view but are we planning or banking on having another top 5 pick? If you get all the pieces in place you’re likely a mediocre team with a mediocre record drafting in the middle rounds when you’re not getting a shot at a top QB. 

 

On 12/17/2022 at 4:19 PM, JColts72 said:

Was Ryan G. record better?

 

On 12/18/2022 at 10:34 AM, NFLfan said:

 

If that is the reason, that is the coaching staff's fault. Serious question: who is to blame for going conservative? Saturday? The OC? Or someone else?

 

[Nickster]

21 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think we r going to find out how good this draft truly is. If Texans,Bears and Seattle want out that  is a red flag. Sure u  can say the Seattle has Geno and  Chicago has  Fields. However if Stroud, Young and Levi are elite, they will take one without  hesitation. If they don't then that worries me.

Chicago isn’t taking a Qb man.  Is that what you are saying?

[EastStreet]

28 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I just think AZ, CHI, and SEA will be offered a lot to get into these 3 guys.  We and the 5 or so teams after us all need QBs.  So you are probably going to be able to get your guy trading down to 6 and pick up the extra draft capital.

 

I just don't see any sure things (QBs) this year, where many teams spend a mint to move up. 

Young, Stroud, Levis, Richardson, Hooker, and McKee are too close for my taste to spend a lot. 

A team or two always reaches for QB. But many always expect a ton of trades to move up, and doesn't always happen. 

I'd be OK with the first 5. But happiest with Stroud. 

[#12.]

Is it me or did Sam's arm look weaker than it did vs. Washington?  Rust, possibly.

[shasta519]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Scheme.  That's funny.

 

The scheme and the personnel will change next year.  The Colts will probably do better next year than this year with a new scheme and some new players.

 

We will be sold the idea that since the GM is the same, but the team is doing better with a different scheme and different players, that Frank was responsible for the players and that the scheme was bad. 

 

That foundation for that narrative is already being subtly built,  Don't buy it.

This is very true. I still would like to see Irsay throw a curveball and go in an entire new direction…but I think it will play out like you said.

[EastStreet]

19 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

For what little I've seen I like Young and Stroud and think so far  a level higher than Levis or Duggan. I am not crazy about Young's  stature, of course, but I think he is supposed to be the most cerebral one which could trump his shortcomings, Lol. 

Stroud was impressive last night against the most NFL type defense in college.

Again, I haven't seen much of them so far so my opinion may change often  the closer the draft comes and I'll see what's happening with the colts. 

 

But what I'd like for the colts to do is target one they think is the one and go after him and not wait and hope they get lucky and the right one falls to them.

The talent surrounding Young and Stroud worries me a bit. 

My order...

 

Stroud - most ready now

Levis - probably will be good, just didn't have much talent to help

Young - but only with a right coach/scheme. I can see Hooker and Richardson be better long term. 

Hooker - great year at TN. Raw but good. 

Richardson - has talent, but inconsistent

 

 

[JColts72]

10 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Chicago isn’t taking a Qb man.  Is that what you are saying?

If they get 1; trade with Texas to get defensive player.

[ShuteAt168]

7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I just don't see any sure things (QBs) this year, where many teams spend a mint to move up. 

Young, Stroud, Levis, Richardson, Hooker, and McKee are too close for my taste to spend a lot. 

A team or two always reaches for QB. But many always expect a ton of trades to move up, and doesn't always happen. 

I'd be OK with the first 5. But happiest with Stroud. 

I agree. I also think no way Stroud gets to 5 or 6 after how he played in the semis. It’s Levis, unless Ballard or our new GM moves up. Kiper has Levis as his top QB, for which he’s getting criticism but he knows as much as anyone else. 

[EastStreet]

11 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Scheme.  That's funny.

 

The scheme and the personnel will change next year.  The Colts will probably do better next year than this year with a new scheme and some new players.

 

We will be sold the idea that since the GM is the same, but the team is doing better with a different coach, different scheme, and different players, that Frank was responsible for the players and that the scheme was bad. 

 

That foundation for that narrative is already being subtly built,  Don't buy it.

 

The truth is that these players do not fit into Frank's scheme very well and were not selected by Frank, other than something like a 4th round TE, and he was left to coach players that were ill fitting and could not do what he wanted to do very well.  So while its true that a new scheme might fit our young players better, the issue isn't the scheme, the issue is that the GM failed to get players who fit the scheme. 

 

Philly has stayed with the same scheme,  The difference between us and them is that their GM knows what kind of players fit their scheme, and got the HC the proper players, some of them before he even got there or immediately upon arriving.   Which is why Sirranni was hired....to continue the scheme and coach the same players. 

 

Their GM understands how the HC and players fit together in the scheme, where Frank was left to coach players that have good RAS scores, LOL.  

 

Philly was mess a few years ago lol.. And cap was very ugly. Their GM was criticized a ton. And they recharged themselves with draft capital when Frank wanted Wentz... So now their GM is a genius... lol. 

 

And now their old coach is with Jax, developed/improved their young QB, and is about to win the AFCS... lol... 

[Nickster]

38 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

For what little I've seen I like Young and Stroud and think so far  a level higher than Levis or Duggan. I am not crazy about Young's  stature, of course, but I think he is supposed to be the most cerebral one which could trump his shortcomings, Lol. 

Stroud was impressive last night against the most NFL type defense in college.

Again, I haven't seen much of them so far so my opinion may change often  the closer the draft comes and I'll see what's happening with the colts. 

 

But what I'd like for the colts to do is target one they think is the one and go after him and not wait and hope they get lucky and the right one falls to them.

That’s where I’m at .  I want Stroud because of what I saw last night but I am far from confident that he or quite frankly any QB drafted anywhere is going to be good.  They are a lot like baseball prospects.  Rarely is it ever a sure thing.

[coltsva]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Hate to tell you tis but  I have fallen  in love with many actresses on TV like u have fallen in love with Stroud.  However, I know deep down if I took them home they would just end it being  a lot  of work and not meeting my expectations lol

But given the opportunity, you'd still give it a shot! 

[Nickster]

11 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Philly was mess a few years ago lol.. And cap was very ugly. Their GM was criticized a ton. And they recharged themselves with draft capital when Frank wanted Wentz... So now their GM is a genius... lol. 

 

And now their old coach is with Jax, developed/improved their young QB, and is about to win the AFCS... lol... 

they got a good Qb at the top of the 2nd.  Only thing that made the ascendency possible.  They got  lucky.    Today shows what that team is with a mediocre Qb.  They are mediocre .

[Moosejawcolt]

25 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Scheme.  That's funny.

 

The scheme and the personnel will change next year.  The Colts will probably do better next year than this year with a new scheme and some new players.

 

We will be sold the idea that since the GM is the same, but the team is doing better with a different coach, different scheme, and different players, that Frank was responsible for the players and that the scheme was bad. 

 

That foundation for that narrative is already being subtly built,  Don't buy it.

 

The truth is that these players do not fit into Frank's scheme very well and were not selected by Frank, other than something like a 4th round TE, and he was left to coach players that were ill fitting and could not do what he wanted to do very well.  So while its true that a new scheme might fit our young players better, the issue isn't the scheme, the issue is that the GM failed to get players who fit the scheme. 

 

Philly has stayed with the same scheme,  The difference between us and them is that their GM knows what kind of players fit their scheme, and got the HC the proper players, some of them before he even got there or immediately upon arriving.   Which is why Sirranni was hired....to continue the scheme and coach the same players. 

 

Their GM understands how the HC and players fit together in the scheme, where Frank was left to coach players that have good RAS scores, LOL.  

Damn u its the play callin !!!!!! The Oline will start pan caking again once Satrurday is inserted and they go more power.  I said previously. How were  they going to excel  in power ball when they were getting their ..... handed to them   in a zone scheme?? But what do I know? I am just Moose Jaw Colt and people will just throw stats at me  supporting their of coursecrightviewa in this team and the wonderful jobBallars has done. I am still waiting for someone to point out one  premium elite player that Ballard has drafted. Please just one.

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

they got a good Qb at the top of the 2nd.  Only thing that made the ascendency possible.  They got  lucky.    Today shows what that team is with a mediocre Qb.  They are mediocre .

Bingo on the bolded.

 

Philly also lucked out some other picks too. Their LT was a 7th rounder lol.. 

There's a ton of luck, and timing...

 

I do like Hurts though. Great kid. Killed it everywhere he went. 

 

Philly did great this year, but we almost beat them. I've never thought they'd make the SB either despite the record. 

 

[Smoke317]

31 minutes ago, ShuteAt168 said:

I agree. I also think no way Stroud gets to 5 or 6 after how he played in the semis. It’s Levis, unless Ballard or our new GM moves up. Kiper has Levis as his top QB, for which he’s getting criticism but he knows as much as anyone else. 

Kiper starting to lose it.  I don’t trust him or McShay any more.  I think they’re both bought and paid by agents to push certain QB’s stocks up.  

[richard pallo]

2 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Kiper starting to lose it.  I don’t trust him or McShay any more.  I think they’re both bought and paid by agents to push certain QB’s stocks up.  

Ahhh    Another conspiracy theory.