Colts interviewing Schwartz for DC

[Superman]

21 hours ago, stitches said:

Do we have the personnel to run his defense? 

 

I don't think we have the personnel to run any defense at a high level. We need better pass rush and better DBs. I would assume we'd at least target another edge rusher to accommodate Schwartz's philosophy.

[Superman]

13 hours ago, Four2itus said:

I would like to know how many fans who are asking for Fangio....were around when Fangio was failing here before.

 

....Just asking for a friend. 

 

13 hours ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

People forget that Mora refusing to can Fangio is why Mora got canned by Polian.  Fangio’s zone blitzes that left Chad Bratzke in coverage way too much. Those were really bad defenses. 

 

I'm not banging the table for Fangio, but I'm also not really concerned with a 20 year old disagreement between two 80 year olds who no longer work for the team. 

 

Especially when Vic Fangio has had plenty of success over the last 20 years.

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

 

I'm not banging the table for Fangio, but I'm also not really concerned with a 20 year old disagreement between two 80 year olds who no longer work for the team. 

 

Especially when Vic Fangio has had plenty of success over the last 20 years.

Just to add to this the thought at the time was that Fangio’s defense was hard to learn and Polian wanted to get younger on defense (because he was going to have to pay Peyton, Edge, and Marvin) and wanted an easier system for guys to learn.  
 

I am not sure if that’s the same situation now.

[DougDew]

16 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Just to add to this the thought at the time was that Fangio’s defense was hard to learn and Polian wanted to get younger on defense (because he was going to have to pay Peyton, Edge, and Marvin) and wanted an easier system for guys to learn.  
 

I am not sure if that’s the same situation now.

The philosophy still holds.  Polian recognized that he had to build the team around PM, and gave him weapons in terms of high draft picks and high dollar contracts.  He could not also afford to spend the capital on the players it took to run the 34 defense.

 

He churned his WILLs because a lot of college LBs know how to run and chase the ball (the job of a WILL), and when he spent draft picks on defensive players after the offense was set, the 1st for Freeney, 2nd for Sanders, 1st for Marlin Jackson, and 2nd for Kelvin Hayden payed off immediately because they could step in and play the defense.  And he gave a 2nd for a vet in Booger who could obviously begin to reap benefits immediately.

 

I think difficulties in building a 34 still hold true, and it takes away from the offensive skill positions.

 

Fangio would not be a bad choice, because his defense would align with our offensive strengths.....a running game, possession passing game, an above average QB with talent at the easier to fund positions along the oline. 

 

But I don't think Ballard sees it that way.

[chad72]

24 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think we have the personnel to run any defense at a high level. We need better pass rush and better DBs. I would assume we'd at least target another edge rusher to accommodate Schwartz's philosophy.

 

Maybe Ballard ponies up some money to get Derek Barnett from the Eagles, who knows??

[buccolts]

Any word on WHEN they're meeting with Schwartz? 

Any other candidates other than the 3 already mentioned?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, buccolts said:

Any word on WHEN they're meeting with Schwartz? 

Any other candidates other than the 3 already mentioned?

Swartz was already interviewed according to Joel Erickson.

[krunk]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

Just to add to this the thought at the time was that Fangio’s defense was hard to learn and Polian wanted to get younger on defense (because he was going to have to pay Peyton, Edge, and Marvin) and wanted an easier system for guys to learn.  
 

I am not sure if that’s the same situation now.

There's a player that I know who played on that Colts team who told me Fangios defense was complicated and that he added new stuff sometimes on game day that they hadn't even practiced. 

[Jack86]

It’s getting spicy!

 

Go Colts.

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, Jack86 said:

It’s getting spicy!

 

Go Colts.

??

[IndyD4U]

53 minutes ago, csmopar said:

??

 

I just assumed he was eating Thai food while reading the forum.

[stitches]

5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think we have the personnel to run any defense at a high level. We need better pass rush and better DBs. I would assume we'd at least target another edge rusher to accommodate Schwartz's philosophy.

Agree, but IMO there are way too many weak points in our talent for that defense specifically. It puts a lot of pressure on the DBs, not just EDGE. The defensive backs need to be sooooooo much better ... we don't even know how good our LBs defending man to man. 

[Superman]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

IMO there are way too many weak points in our talent for that defense. Not just EDGE. The defensive backs need to be much better too. 

 

So keep building the roster. If they hired someone like him, they'd presumably be committing to giving him the players he needs, right?

[stitches]

Just now, Superman said:

 

So keep building the roster. If they hired someone like him, they'd presumably be committing to giving him the players he needs, right?

True. And I kind of would rather them do it than stick with the current scheme, I've been praying for so long that they try to mix it up more and add more man-to-man talent. I just am really worried about just how bad our D can be at first. IMO last few years might look like 2000s Ravens compared to how bad we might be next year. 

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, stitches said:

True. And I kind of would rather them do it than stick with the current scheme, I've been praying for so long that they try to mix it up more and add more man-to-man talent. I just am really worried about just how bad our D can be at first. IMO last few years might look like 2000s Ravens compared to how bad we might be next year. 

 

Our pass defense has been bad. It got worse last year. Run defense will be fine. Even with Eberflus' scheme, we needed more pass rush and better secondary play. Same problems, IMO, maybe slightly different profiles for needed players in the secondary. To me, it's a minor adjustment for personnel, and we keep on the same track.

 

I also think we'd continue to mix coverages and play plenty of zone along the way.

 

You mentioned Malik Hooker. I don't think he'd come back, I don't think he can stay healthy, and I don't think he brings enough physicality, but we really miss his range and instincts at safety. Blackmon showed some flashes but now he's down with his second major leg injury in three years, so who knows when he'll be back, or what he'll look like.

[stitches]

18 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Our pass defense has been bad. It got worse last year. Run defense will be fine. Even with Eberflus' scheme, we needed more pass rush and better secondary play. Same problems, IMO, maybe slightly different profiles for needed players in the secondary. To me, it's a minor adjustment for personnel, and we keep on the same track.

 

I also think we'd continue to mix coverages and play plenty of zone along the way.

 

You mentioned Malik Hooker. I don't think he'd come back, I don't think he can stay healthy, and I don't think he brings enough physicality, but we really miss his range and instincts at safety. Blackmon showed some flashes but now he's down with his second major leg injury in three years, so who knows when he'll be back, or what he'll look like.

I will need to take a look at the available free safeties in this class. If I'm not mistaken Marcus Williams from the Saints is FA and they likely will not be able to re-sign him, so he might be a good target. He's been one of the best FS in the league since entering the league. 

 

edit: just checked his salary projections... Wow... 16M a year projection. Probably not our solution. 

[Shive]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

I will need to take a look at the available free safeties in this class. If I'm not mistaken Marcus Williams from the Saints is FA and they likely will not be able to re-sign him, so he might be a good target. He's been one of the best FS in the league since entering the league. 

 

edit: just checked his salary projections... Wow... 16M a year projection. Probably not our solution. 

Yea, we're not going to be able to afford Williams, although our defense would be so much better with him.

[jimmy g]

On 1/30/2022 at 7:32 AM, JediXMan said:

Interesting.

I just remember when he was DC under Fisher, and HC in Detroit, it seemed you could count on his Defenders getting Personal Fouls in critical game situations that always gave the game away.

[Hawkeyecolt]

8 minutes ago, jimmy g said:

I just remember when he was DC under Fisher, and HC in Detroit, it seemed you could count on his Defenders getting Personal Fouls in critical game situations that always gave the game away.

Greg Williams was Dcoordinator under Fisher that I remember but it does hold true for both Schwartz and Williams. 

[ChuggaBeer]

24 minutes ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

Greg Williams was Dcoordinator under Fisher that I remember but it does hold true for both Schwartz and Williams. 

I'd offer Greg Williams a job if he can get a certain player.  And tell him we need him to do an in person interview with a 6-9 DE with 4.3 speed and if he can get him signed.  He gets a 10m bonus.    Then Id send him to Ecuador to the Huaorani tribe and tell him to ask for Joe 

 

 

[Four2itus]

8 hours ago, Superman said:

 

 

I'm not banging the table for Fangio, but I'm also not really concerned with a 20 year old disagreement between two 80 year olds who no longer work for the team. 

 

Especially when Vic Fangio has had plenty of success over the last 20 years.

I honestly do not know of the issue you are talking about. Never heard about it. However, I do remember the Colts defense having a hard time getting off the field when he coached the Colts D. 

[GoColts8818]

5 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

I honestly do not know of the issue you are talking about. Never heard about it. However, I do remember the Colts defense having a hard time getting off the field when he coached the Colts D. 

He’s talking about Polian firing Mora because Mora wouldn’t fire Fangio.

[Superman]

3 hours ago, stitches said:

I will need to take a look at the available free safeties in this class. If I'm not mistaken Marcus Williams from the Saints is FA and they likely will not be able to re-sign him, so he might be a good target. He's been one of the best FS in the league since entering the league. 

 

edit: just checked his salary projections... Wow... 16M a year projection. Probably not our solution. 

 

Probably not, but I'm not ruling him out over the money.

 

This probably doesn't belong in this thread, but I'm to the point where Ballard needs to put in some serious work this offseason, and stop half stepping. Doesn't mean push all in recklessly, but we gotta do more than what we've been doing the past couple seasons.

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, Four2itus said:

I honestly do not know of the issue you are talking about. Never heard about it. However, I do remember the Colts defense having a hard time getting off the field when he coached the Colts D. 

I'd have to go back and dig in, but as I recall, in 98, we had arguably the worst D in the league. Fangio came in 99 and the D improved to be respectable for the next two years, and then took a step back in his last year. 

 

If memory serves, in the years before and after his arrival, we drafted heavy on O, and were pretty void of talent on D.

[compuls1v3]

On 1/30/2022 at 3:35 PM, Coltsman1788 said:

It doesn’t really matter because Colts are committed to the same defensive conservative simplified scheme that they have been running since Ballard took over.  They won’t consider a Fangio or Martindale. I’d like to see the Colts defense play more aggressively and creatively. They confuse no one. 

Didn’t we end up with the 2nd most turnovers behind the Bills?  Sure it was infuriating watching our guys play 10 yds off the LOS at times, but there were plenty of times where our coverages were hidden.  Tied for 3rd in interceptions with the Rams and the Bills.  That’s good company.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/opp.htm

[danlhart87]

Our new DC 

 

[Hawkeyecolt]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I'd have to go back and dig in, but as I recall, in 98, we had arguably the worst D in the league. Fangio came in 99 and the D improved to be respectable for the next two years, and then took a step back in his last year. 

 

If memory serves, in the years before and after his arrival, we drafted heavy on O, and were pretty void of talent on D.

They signed free-agents like Bratzke, Burris, Traded for Poole.  Drafted Morris, Peterson.  I’m sure there’s plenty Im forgetting. What happened between Polian, Mora, and Fangio is irrelevant.  The only person still around is Irsay Trying to force players into a Fangio system that aren’t matches would be if that were the case.  They got away from the zone blitzing that was getting torched in favor of a Dungy defense. 

[GoColts8818]

11 minutes ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

They signed free-agents like Bratzke, Burris, Traded for Poole.  Drafted Morris, Peterson.  I’m sure there’s plenty Im forgetting. What happened between Polian, Mora, and Fangio is irrelevant.  The only person still around is Irsay Trying to force players into a Fangio system that aren’t matches would be if that were the case.  They got away from the zone blitzing that was getting torched in favor of a Dungy defense. 

And at that point Irsay pretty much took a hands off approach to the franchise making it even more irrelevant to today.

[Jason_]

On 1/30/2022 at 6:55 PM, Fluke_33 said:

I was thinking the same thing on the rivalry.  They almost fought after a game in Detroit.  
 

(I don’t agree with the harbaugh is a tool though. )

 

Harbaugh was a tool for the way he handled that situation 

[EastStreet]

58 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

Didn’t we end up with the 2nd most turnovers behind the Bills?  Sure it was infuriating watching our guys play 10 yds off the LOS at times, but there were plenty of times where our coverages were hidden.  Tied for 3rd in interceptions with the Rams and the Bills.  That’s good company.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/opp.htm

Remove Leonard and his 12 turnovers from the equation, and the numbers are mediocre. 

He's a talent, not really a product of scheme. In short, he'd be doing that in any D scheme.

We were pretty decent overall though in INTs without Leonard's 4. 

 

I prefer to look at TDs allowed and passer rating allowed for the big picture (if we're talking about pass D). We gave up the most passing TDs in the league I believe..... and that's just bad lol..... And passer rating allowed... that takes into account yards, TDs, turnovers, 1Ds, etc.. And we were middle of the pack in that stat. 

[Boondoggle]

Schwartz would be a great hire.  Hope this happens.

[jimmy g]

11 hours ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

Greg Williams was Dcoordinator under Fisher that I remember but it does hold true for both Schwartz and Williams. 

Ok, maybe it wasn’t while Fisher was HQ, but Swartz was DC from 2001-2008. The most things I remember when I think of him is Out of Control players getting crucial penalties that cost his teams games.

[AwesomeAustin]

19 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Maybe Ballard ponies up some money to get Derek Barnett from the Eagles, who knows??

I have not watched him recently but did follow him from when he was Vol and into the pros. He is a Paye type DE.  High motor but low stats. This may have changed recently but Barnett was the guy I thought of when I looked into Paye after we drafted him. Probably not the best compliment on the other end

[Jack86]

I’m happy for new blood, people will hate whom ever they choose.

 

Some one with a bit of bite would be nice.

 

stop patting each other on the * so much!

 

Go Colts.

[compuls1v3]

8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Remove Leonard and his 12 turnovers from the equation, and the numbers are mediocre. 

He's a talent, not really a product of scheme. In short, he'd be doing that in any D scheme.

We were pretty decent overall though in INTs without Leonard's 4. 

 

I prefer to look at TDs allowed and passer rating allowed for the big picture (if we're talking about pass D). We gave up the most passing TDs in the league I believe..... and that's just bad lol..... And passer rating allowed... that takes into account yards, TDs, turnovers, 1Ds, etc.. And we were middle of the pack in that stat. 

How can you remove Leonard?  He was part of those disguises.  I do agree big picture and giving up TDs was bad, but this notion of not confusing anyone I just don’t buy.  It's my opinion, of course 

[Nickster]

21 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Our pass defense has been bad. It got worse last year. Run defense will be fine. Even with Eberflus' scheme, we needed more pass rush and better secondary play. Same problems, IMO, maybe slightly different profiles for needed players in the secondary. To me, it's a minor adjustment for personnel, and we keep on the same track.

 

I also think we'd continue to mix coverages and play plenty of zone along the way.

 

You mentioned Malik Hooker. I don't think he'd come back, I don't think he can stay healthy, and I don't think he brings enough physicality, but we really miss his range and instincts at safety. Blackmon showed some flashes but now he's down with his second major leg injury in three years, so who knows when he'll be back, or what he'll look like.

Blackmon showed "flashes" coming up and laying the lumber on guys in front of him, and that is fun to watch and would be valuable if he wasn't so poor over the top and sideline to sideline.  JB wasn't a very good player at any time really. especially in coverage.  He might have had or still have a chance to develop, but I don't know that he'd ever be a good cove FS.  I am not sure the Colts lost anything with his injury this year. 

[Superman]

2 hours ago, Nickster said:

Blackmon showed "flashes" coming up and laying the lumber on guys in front of him, and that is fun to watch and would be valuable if he wasn't so poor over the top and sideline to sideline.  JB wasn't a very good player at any time really. especially in coverage.  He might have had or still have a chance to develop, but I don't know that he'd ever be a good cove FS.  I am not sure the Colts lost anything with his injury this year. 

 

I disagree with the bolded. But bigger picture, why do we so constantly have to dump on second year players who aren't perfect?

 

As a rookie, with no training camp, coming off an ACL, Blackmon had a pretty good year. Even in coverage, which is where everyone says he sucks, he was targeted 17 times, gave up 9 catches, 137 yards, had four PDs, two picks, allowed no TDs, and the opposing QB rating was 40.2. In 2021, he played six games.

 

Compare Blackmon's rookie season to Marcus Williams' rookie season: 19 targets, 259 yards 14 catches allowed, 0 PDs, two INTs, allowed 5 TDs, opposing QB rating 115.6. This is the guy whose salary projection is now $16m/year.

 

I don't know whether Blackmon will regain his physical ability after this latest injury. But why not give him -- and young players in general -- a chance to develop and improve?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

All our secondary players will be better with a better pass rush.

[Nickster]

27 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I disagree with the bolded. But bigger picture, why do we so constantly have to dump on second year players who aren't perfect?

 

As a rookie, with no training camp, coming off an ACL, Blackmon had a pretty good year. Even in coverage, which is where everyone says he sucks, he was targeted 17 times, gave up 9 catches, 137 yards, had four PDs, two picks, allowed no TDs, and the opposing QB rating was 40.2. In 2021, he played six games.

 

Compare Blackmon's rookie season to Marcus Williams' rookie season: 19 targets, 259 yards 14 catches allowed, 0 PDs, two INTs, allowed 5 TDs, opposing QB rating 115.6. This is the guy whose salary projection is now $16m/year.

 

I don't know whether Blackmon will regain his physical ability after this latest injury. But why not give him -- and young players in general -- a chance to develop and improve?

 

I don't know if you are serious or not comparing Blackmon to Williams with these kinds of counting stats.  Truth be told, I've never knowingly watched Williams play, so I am not using the eye test on him at all. 

 

But man looking at PFF, which isn't God but probably gives us an idea of how the players compare, Williams was a superstar as a rookie with a PFF of 88.3 which is about as good as it gets.  His lowest PFF was 74 in his career.

 

Blackmon by contrast had 60.7 and 60.8 and I would expect that most of the positive was from making plays in front, not in coverage over the top because he was very bad at that.  I don't have PFF breakdown access but I remember someone did and his deep coverage numbers were just godawful.

 

From what I've seen of the dude, I never thought he looked like a guy that was going to develop the deep coverage skills. He might still, but I just don't get that feel.

 

He comes up and hits people, but he's very week in coverage so far and has played at a replaceable level in his time on the field.  Both Odum and Sandejo graded better and I would suspect they didn't make as much hay in coming up in run support and hitting in the short passing game in front of them. 

 

We looked like we covered better deep to me after JB went down, and there is at least some evidence to support that.

 

[EastStreet]

10 hours ago, compuls1v3 said:

How can you remove Leonard?  He was part of those disguises.  I do agree big picture and giving up TDs was bad, but this notion of not confusing anyone I just don’t buy.  It's my opinion, of course 

Our scheme doesn't really play WILL any different than any other 4-3. His peanut punches (the largest part of our turnovers) had zero to do with scheme (100% talent).

 

Overall, I don't think we confuse folks a lot..... When two of the worst rated QBs in the league (Minshew and Lawrence) carve you up like Thanksgiving turkey, something is lacking. When you play 10 yards off the ball, and go to quarters (C4) almost every 3rd down, what's confusing about that? lol... The cushion begs for completions underneath (bending). But we broke while bending a lot. We would bend between the 20s, then break in the RZ... Or even with cushion, speed WRs would scheme guys vertically against guys that shouldn't go vertical (Willis, Moore, etc.)... 

 

Overall, I'm not outraged at the coverages (C1, C2, C3, C4, C6, etc.) in general. I'm outraged in the way we play them (cushion, soft zone), coupled with the lack of blitzing and pressures.