Colts interviewing Schwartz for DC

[lollygagger8]

Hire The Schwartz! 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

On 1/31/2022 at 11:19 PM, EastStreet said:

Remove Leonard and his 12 turnovers from the equation, and the numbers are mediocre. 

He's a talent, not really a product of scheme. In short, he'd be doing that in any D scheme.

We were pretty decent overall though in INTs without Leonard's 4. 

 

I prefer to look at TDs allowed and passer rating allowed for the big picture (if we're talking about pass D). We gave up the most passing TDs in the league I believe..... and that's just bad lol..... And passer rating allowed... that takes into account yards, TDs, turnovers, 1Ds, etc.. And we were middle of the pack in that stat. 

Actually,  I think he would be light for a lot of schemes. I don't think a lot of D coordinators would want a 215 pound line backer even with his play making. This scheme has always used light linebackers at the WILL position even going back to the Dungy days.  .

[coach kline]

Tired of rehashing same old stuff. Find some new innovative people. 

[compuls1v3]

20 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Our scheme doesn't really play WILL any different than any other 4-3. His peanut punches (the largest part of our turnovers) had zero to do with scheme (100% talent).

 

Overall, I don't think we confuse folks a lot..... When two of the worst rated QBs in the league (Minshew and Lawrence) carve you up like Thanksgiving turkey, something is lacking. When you play 10 yards off the ball, and go to quarters (C4) almost every 3rd down, what's confusing about that? lol... The cushion begs for completions underneath (bending). But we broke while bending a lot. We would bend between the 20s, then break in the RZ... Or even with cushion, speed WRs would scheme guys vertically against guys that shouldn't go vertical (Willis, Moore, etc.)... 

 

Overall, I'm not outraged at the coverages (C1, C2, C3, C4, C6, etc.) in general. I'm outraged in the way we play them (cushion, soft zone), coupled with the lack of blitzing and pressures. 

Well, after just re-watching the first two games, I see your point about the coverages.  When we DID apply pressure, what do you know, we got to the QB a few times and caused mistakes.  I guess that's not a secret.  The thing that IS a secret is why we didn't do it more often.

[EastStreet]

8 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Actually,  I think he would be light for a lot of schemes. I don't think a lot of D coordinators would want a 215 pound line backer even with his play making. This scheme has always used light linebackers at the WILL position even going back to the Dungy days.  .

 

Uh... you said you didn't hate on Leonard... 

I want you to bookmark this so you can reflect next time you post about Leonard.....

I don't know if you're purposefully trollish on the topic, or just clueless about the obvious facts and data available.

 

So not only was Leonard tops in the league in turnovers, he was dubbed the best linebacker against the run this season.. 

He was lauded by all kinds of media, but PFF had a very nice blurb on him and the 2021 season..

 

Darius Leonard was a turnover machine this season. He has perfected the art of the “Peanut Punch” tackle, forcing fumbles without risking the play if his attempt to jar the ball loose isn’t successful. Leonard had four forced fumbles in the run game, twice as many as any other linebacker, and his average depth of tackle was just 2.87 yards down field.

 

Run defense goes beyond just those statistical plays, however, and is about how you deal with blocks and whether you can negatively impact the blocking scheme or the path of the running back, spilling him toward other defenders who can make the play even if you can’t. Leonard understands offensive tendencies and keys as well as any defender — he was consistently pointing out plays and reading things before they happened, alerting teammates to what was coming and blowing up the play to let them clean up behind him. He was the best run defender in football in 2021.

 

Feel free to poo poo PFF and their grading method. Feel free to poo poo basic stats. It's pretty dumb though to try and poo poo either when they both perfectly align, and also align with the eye test. 

 

And to your comments on scheme... From a WILL perspective, we don't use WILL any differently that any other 4-3 who runs more nickel than base. 

[EastStreet]

7 hours ago, compuls1v3 said:

Well, after just re-watching the first two games, I see your point about the coverages.  When we DID apply pressure, what do you know, we got to the QB a few times and caused mistakes.  I guess that's not a secret.  The thing that IS a secret is why we didn't do it more often.

Yup. And it's very frustrating. DL and Secondary is a chicken before the egg, egg before the chicken, etc. type narrative. Too many folks lazily say our secondary stinks because we get no pressure. Some say we get no pressure because our secondary allows to too much separation and cushion. I personally have always believed both are symbiotic. 

 

On thing is for sure though. We don't try to get pressures (blitz% and stunting) near as much as other teams do. We don't play man near as much as some other teams do. We allow cushion at a higher rate than most teams I've watched. When we do make an effort to pressure, and do make an effort to cover, we've looked pretty good. 

 

I'd love to know the secret.

[Defjamz26]

On 2/1/2022 at 3:31 PM, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

All our secondary players will be better with a better pass rush.

Yes but as it stands, they can all be upgraded as well. Aside from Moore 

(who kind of wet the bed the last two games of the season) not a single one of the DBs plays or has played outstanding. Every single corner and safety is average at best. 

[DougDew]

8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Uh... you said you didn't hate on Leonard... 

I want you to bookmark this so you can reflect next time you post about Leonard.....

I don't know if you're purposefully trollish on the topic, or just clueless about the obvious facts and data available.

 

So not only was Leonard tops in the league in turnovers, he was dubbed the best linebacker against the run this season.. 

He was lauded by all kinds of media, but PFF had a very nice blurb on him and the 2021 season..

 

Darius Leonard was a turnover machine this season. He has perfected the art of the “Peanut Punch” tackle, forcing fumbles without risking the play if his attempt to jar the ball loose isn’t successful. Leonard had four forced fumbles in the run game, twice as many as any other linebacker, and his average depth of tackle was just 2.87 yards down field.

 

Run defense goes beyond just those statistical plays, however, and is about how you deal with blocks and whether you can negatively impact the blocking scheme or the path of the running back, spilling him toward other defenders who can make the play even if you can’t. Leonard understands offensive tendencies and keys as well as any defender — he was consistently pointing out plays and reading things before they happened, alerting teammates to what was coming and blowing up the play to let them clean up behind him. He was the best run defender in football in 2021.

 

Feel free to poo poo PFF and their grading method. Feel free to poo poo basic stats. It's pretty dumb though to try and poo poo either when they both perfectly align, and also align with the eye test. 

 

And to your comments on scheme... From a WILL perspective, we don't use WILL any differently that any other 4-3 who runs more nickel than base. 

In the nickel, where does Warner and Wagner line up relative to MIKE, WILL, or DL?  The same as DL, or where OKe plays?

[EastStreet]

13 minutes ago, DougDew said:

In the nickel, where does Warner and Wagner line up relative to MIKE, WILL, or DL?  The same as DL, or where OKe plays?

Warner and Wagner are both Mikes (what Oke plays). 

Warner is known more for coverage than anything else.

Wagner took a step back this year. Not sure if it's age (he's 31), or just because Norton's scheme sucked.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Something to watch for. Cullen was let go from jags yesterday. He is the only assistant to be let go. Maybe that had to happen befitting colts could hire him because it’s a latteral move.

[DougDew]

26 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Warner and Wagner are both Mikes (what Oke plays). 

Warner is known more for coverage than anything else.

Wagner took a step back this year. Not sure if it's age (he's 31), or just because Norton's scheme sucked.

 

In Nickle and base, in their prime, they play MIKE, or one slot over from WILL (DL).  

 

I was hoping that DL would evolve into sliding over to the more important LB position, the one that other GMS have built good defenses around. but at less than 220 pounds, that is not likely.

 

In the end CB gave 60M to a 218 pound LB who is stuck in playing the second most important LB position (if you want to mimic SFs and SEAs D), despite how good he is at it.    That is the basis of @Moosejawcolt "hate" on DL.

[Moosejawcolt]

10 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Uh... you said you didn't hate on Leonard... 

I want you to bookmark this so you can reflect next time you post about Leonard.....

I don't know if you're purposefully trollish on the topic, or just clueless about the obvious facts and data available.

 

So not only was Leonard tops in the league in turnovers, he was dubbed the best linebacker against the run this season.. 

He was lauded by all kinds of media, but PFF had a very nice blurb on him and the 2021 season..

 

Darius Leonard was a turnover machine this season. He has perfected the art of the “Peanut Punch” tackle, forcing fumbles without risking the play if his attempt to jar the ball loose isn’t successful. Leonard had four forced fumbles in the run game, twice as many as any other linebacker, and his average depth of tackle was just 2.87 yards down field.

 

Run defense goes beyond just those statistical plays, however, and is about how you deal with blocks and whether you can negatively impact the blocking scheme or the path of the running back, spilling him toward other defenders who can make the play even if you can’t. Leonard understands offensive tendencies and keys as well as any defender — he was consistently pointing out plays and reading things before they happened, alerting teammates to what was coming and blowing up the play to let them clean up behind him. He was the best run defender in football in 2021.

 

Feel free to poo poo PFF and their grading method. Feel free to poo poo basic stats. It's pretty dumb though to try and poo poo either when they both perfectly align, and also align with the eye test. 

 

And to your comments on scheme... From a WILL perspective, we don't use WILL any differently that any other 4-3 who runs more nickel than base. 

I think you missed my point. Show me another defensive system that employs a 215 pound linebacker? U remember the Dungy days when he had Gardner playing LB and DT's playing at 270. Much like Ballard trying Lewis at DT where he  did not have the explosion to justify playing him at that position at 270 pounds  or so. Its the way this defense is constructed. It relies more on speed than size. I don't hate DL.  I have said numerous times that he is a play maker, no doubt, but is over rated in coverage and run support. I would expect a 215 pound linebacker to be a stud in coverage, which he is not, and   average in run support which I think he is. Is her worth 20 million, I never thought so. I thought Speed and Walker played admirably in his absence. When Buckner was gone for some games, the defense felt it. I went on record at beginning of season saying I would have franchised him and looked for a trade. At the end of the day, I think the Colts would have been better served paying a shut down corner and/or Dend with that money. Watching how the defense performed this year, I don't think you can really argue how those 2 positions would have served the Colts better.

[Moosejawcolt]

10 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Uh... you said you didn't hate on Leonard... 

I want you to bookmark this so you can reflect next time you post about Leonard.....

I don't know if you're purposefully trollish on the topic, or just clueless about the obvious facts and data available.

 

So not only was Leonard tops in the league in turnovers, he was dubbed the best linebacker against the run this season.. 

He was lauded by all kinds of media, but PFF had a very nice blurb on him and the 2021 season..

 

Darius Leonard was a turnover machine this season. He has perfected the art of the “Peanut Punch” tackle, forcing fumbles without risking the play if his attempt to jar the ball loose isn’t successful. Leonard had four forced fumbles in the run game, twice as many as any other linebacker, and his average depth of tackle was just 2.87 yards down field.

 

Run defense goes beyond just those statistical plays, however, and is about how you deal with blocks and whether you can negatively impact the blocking scheme or the path of the running back, spilling him toward other defenders who can make the play even if you can’t. Leonard understands offensive tendencies and keys as well as any defender — he was consistently pointing out plays and reading things before they happened, alerting teammates to what was coming and blowing up the play to let them clean up behind him. He was the best run defender in football in 2021.

 

Feel free to poo poo PFF and their grading method. Feel free to poo poo basic stats. It's pretty dumb though to try and poo poo either when they both perfectly align, and also align with the eye test. 

 

And to your comments on scheme... From a WILL perspective, we don't use WILL any differently that any other 4-3 who runs more nickel than base. 

The idea of trading DL was never about hate. It was about a player who was seen as elite and wanting a new contract. I just felt that  we could have used it to build a better defense. This defense does not have elite players at the most important positions, Dend and corner. Dont give me that crap about how Ballard views the WLL position as the 2nd most important position.  I would not take much of what Ballard says about a defense as he has been horrible at building one. Polian and I believe Dungy did not really value the LB position. Its all about building the Dline 1st and foremost. Like I have said and people say I know nothing and Ballard is a god. Well let me tell you this. I remember saying in the free agency that I wanted to go after the top corner. I believe either Cincy got him and/or he was a Cincy player.  I cannot remember his name but I remember Chris Simms was very high on him and Ballard never made the move.   When Simmons was on the board, I said move up and trade or  him. He was a top 5 pick at that time and he probably would have cost us a 2nd rounder. I knew he was going to come off the board soon and  I was so p...ed that the Titans got him. The Colts could have gotten a top 5 pick with a late 1st and a 2nd, but Ballard likes those picks. I was p....ed when they passed on Sweat and moved back. Now I believe I posted that. I loved Landry coming out of college and wanted the Colts to get him. I thought he had elite traits and loved his bend. My brother in law is a Titans fan and   we do the draft and he laughs at me because he knows  how I felt about these players. I do believe I also posted a lot of these vies on the forum but people dont want to admit it.  So you tell me. I am the GM and my Dline has Landry, Sweat and Simmons and the corner and I cannot recall his name in free agency last year  and possibly another corner in trading DL. Is that better than what Ballard has assembled? 

[EastStreet]

29 minutes ago, DougDew said:

In Nickle and base, in their prime, they play MIKE, or one slot over from WILL (DL).  

 

I was hoping that DL would evolve into sliding over to the more important LB position, the one that other GMS have built good defenses around. but at less than 220 pounds, that is not likely.

 

In the end CB gave 60M to a 218 pound LB who is stuck in playing the second most important LB position (if you want to mimic SFs and SEAs D), despite how good he is at it.    That is the basis of @Moosejawcolt "hate" on DL.

 

I have no ideal what you are talking about. Different schemes use LBs differently these days. The days of things revolving around the MIKE are gone.

 

The best LB this year, was arguably Parsons (not a MIKE), who plays in Dallas's 4-3 as a SAM, and is a pass rusher in a 3rd of his snaps. Parson's was an All Pro this year... Campbell (GB's All Pro LB) is a 3-4 ILB, who is basically a jack of all trades (plays more the rover, and GB has become a hybrid), who was a conversion from WILL (when he played for ATL).. Then you have Johnson, another 3-4 ILB, but one who plays more the big thumper roll at 255 (and was a top 3 graded OLB)... 

 

In short... those 3, along with Leonard are the three All Pro LBs and top graded guys. They all are very different. GMs don't just build around MIKEs lol...

 

[EastStreet]

23 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think you missed my point. Show me another defensive system that employs a 215 pound linebacker? U remember the Dungy days when he had Gardner playing LB and DT's playing at 270. Much like Ballard trying Lewis at DT where he  did not have the explosion to justify playing him at that position at 270 pounds  or so. Its the way this defense is constructed. It relies more on speed than size. I don't hate DL.  I have said numerous times that he is a play maker, no doubt, but is over rated in coverage and run support. I would expect a 215 pound linebacker to be a stud in coverage, which he is not, and   average in run support which I think he is. Is her worth 20 million, I never thought so. I thought Speed and Walker played admirably in his absence. When Buckner was gone for some games, the defense felt it. I went on record at beginning of season saying I would have franchised him and looked for a trade. At the end of the day, I think the Colts would have been better served paying a shut down corner and/or Dend with that money. Watching how the defense performed this year, I don't think you can really argue how those 2 positions would have served the Colts better.

Who the freak cares how much the guy weighs.

Weight concerns are typically about run D... BUT.....

He was the best in the league in run D... The best... lol

He was the best in turnovers

He was an All Pro and Pro Bowler

 

Dude, you're stuck in the 80s.

[Moosejawcolt]

Just now, EastStreet said:

Who the freak cares how much the guy weighs.

Weight concerns are typically about run D... BUT.....

He was the best in the league in run D... The best... lol

He was the best in turnovers

He was an All Pro and Pro Bowler

 

Dude, you're stuck in the 80s.

The most important asset a LB can have in today's game is agility to coverage. He is not elite, he is maybe average. Even though PFF says so, he is not elite in run support. Yes, he gets a lot of tackles, but he gets gobbled up by guards and not able to shed at all when a guard locks on him. The WILL in this system always gets tons of tackles

[Moosejawcolt]

17 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Who the freak cares how much the guy weighs.

Weight concerns are typically about run D... BUT.....

He was the best in the league in run D... The best... lol

He was the best in turnovers

He was an All Pro and Pro Bowler

 

Dude, you're stuck in the 80s.

Is he one of the best LB's in the league when you consider his play making and abilties in coverage and run support? Yes. There you have it. Based on the talent on this defence, is his position that important? I say no and always will. To me, his position is a luxury when you have other elite players at DL and corner. That is just my thoughts. 

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

The idea of trading DL was never about hate. It was about a player who was seen as elite and wanting a new contract. I just felt that  we could have used it to build a better defense. This defense does not have elite players at the most important positions, Dend and corner. Dont give me that crap about how Ballard views the WLL position as the 2nd most important position.  I would not take much of what Ballard says about a defense as he has been horrible at building one. Polian and I believe Dungy did not really value the LB position. Its all about building the Dline 1st and foremost. Like I have said and people say I know nothing and Ballard is a god. Well let me tell you this. I remember saying in the free agency that I wanted to go after the top corner. I believe either Cincy got him and/or he was a Cincy player.  I cannot remember his name but I remember Chris Simms was very high on him and Ballard never made the move.   When Simmons was on the board, I said move up and trade or  him. He was a top 5 pick at that time and he probably would have cost us a 2nd rounder. I knew he was going to come off the board soon and  I was so p...ed that the Titans got him. The Colts could have gotten a top 5 pick with a late 1st and a 2nd, but Ballard likes those picks. I was p....ed when they passed on Sweat and moved back. Now I believe I posted that. I loved Landry coming out of college and wanted the Colts to get him. I thought he had elite traits and loved his bend. My brother in law is a Titans fan and   we do the draft and he laughs at me because he knows  how I felt about these players. I do believe I also posted a lot of these vies on the forum but people dont want to admit it.  So you tell me. I am the GM and my Dline has Landry, Sweat and Simmons and the corner and I cannot recall his name in free agency last year  and possibly another corner in trading DL. Is that better than what Ballard has assembled? 

Again, you're stuck in the 80s with some antiquated thinking of what LBs are, and how they should be used.

 

LB use varies widely from team to team in this era.

LBs are being used more and more in coverage due to Os evolving to more pass first Os.

And while that's happening, they still have to be good against the run.

In short, jack of all trades, especially if we're talking WILLs and MIKEs in a 4-3 that plays nickel a lot (which we do), and also 3-4 ILBs who play a lot of nickel (which a lot do)....

SAMs are really the only ones that have stayed traditional lately, and even that is changing with guys like Parsons. 

 

In short... LB is one of 3 levels of D. You need an anchor player at each level. It doesn't matter if you label it MIKE or WILL. 

And Leonard is our 2nd level anchor. He's a Pro-Bowl anchor. He's an anchor that had the most TOs in the league, while also being the best LB vs the run. Once again, who the freak cares how much he weighs lol.. 

 

What we do at other positions is irrelevant when viewing Leonard. If he weighed 330, was labeled Mike, and wasn't an All Pro, would that make you happier lol.. 

 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Again, you're stuck in the 80s with some antiquated thinking of what LBs are, and how they should be used.

 

LB use varies widely from team to team in this era.

LBs are being used more and more in coverage due to Os evolving to more pass first Os.

And while that's happening, they still have to be good against the run.

In short, jack of all trades, especially if we're talking WILLs and MIKEs in a 4-3 that plays nickel a lot (which we do), and also 3-4 ILBs who play a lot of nickel (which a lot do)....

SAMs are really the only ones that have stayed traditional lately, and even that is changing with guys like Parsons. 

 

In short... LB is one of 3 levels of D. You need an anchor player at each level. It doesn't matter if you label it MIKE or WILL. 

And Leonard is our 2nd level anchor. He's a Pro-Bowl anchor. He's an anchor that had the most TOs in the league, while also being the best LB vs the run. Once again, who the freak cares how much he weighs lol.. 

 

What we do at other positions is irrelevant when viewing Leonard. If he weighed 330, was labeled Mike, and wasn't an All Pro, would that make you happier lol.. 

 

 

It will be interesting to see who the D coordinator is and what type of defense he employs. That is that difficulty of building the defense the way Ballard has. The players, who are not that good, are very scheme specific. If he wanted to switch to say a 3-4, he could not. The LB's are way to light. That is the problem with linebackers that are as light as Okereke and DL.  I believe even a lot of 4-3 schemes would find them to light. That is where the search for a D  coordinator is limited. Ballard will probably have to look a candidate who run this style based on his talent and that limits his options of maybe getting a candidate who could be viewed as the next big thing.  Even though PFF and he labeled an all pro, I think it would be interesting to see how other coaches view him as an asset. Offences enter a game cognizant of the best D players and how to avoid their impact on the game. You don't throw to Ramsey's side of the field. You double team Donald. I don't see teams running away from DL's side and are not afraid to throw in his direction when he is in coverage. 

[EastStreet]

17 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

The most important asset a LB can have in today's game is agility to coverage. He is not elite, he is maybe average. Even though PFF says so, he is not elite in run support. Yes, he gets a lot of tackles, but he gets gobbled up by guards and not able to shed at all when a guard locks on him. The WILL in this system always gets tons of tackles

If you think he's average in run support, you've just lost any credibility you have.

 

Let's forget about PFF for a second....

 

He's top 20 in total tackles...

Guards trip him up.. Wut?... of all the top 20 LBs in tackles, he has the 3rd best missed tackle rate.

 

He is "maybe average in coverage"?

Out of the top 20 LBs in tackles...

He had the 2nd lowest completion % allowed....

He had the 2nd best passer rating allowed.....

 

Do you know how silly some of your hot-takes are?

 

Even if you poo poo PFF grades (nothing above is PFF related), even if you poo poo Pro Bowls.... The dude was an All Pro. He was top 20 in tackles. He was top 3 in missed tackle %. He was #1 in TOs. He was 2nd best of the top 20 tacklers in both passer rating allowed and completion % allowed. Sounds like an all around stud to me...... Guess that's why he's Pro Bowl and All Pro.... 

 

But, hey.... keep firing away. I'm getting some great laughs. 

[buccolts]

I'm getting anxious for updates.

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

It will be interesting to see who the D coordinator is and what type of defense he employs. That is that difficulty of building the defense the way Ballard has. The players, who are not that good, are very scheme specific. If he wanted to switch to say a 3-4, he could not. The LB's are way to light. That is the problem with linebackers that are as light as Okereke and DL.  I believe even a lot of 4-3 schemes would find them to light. That is where the search for a D  coordinator is limited. Ballard will probably have to look a candidate who run this style based on his talent and that limits his options of maybe getting a candidate who could be viewed as the next big thing.  Even though PFF and he labeled an all pro, I think it would be interesting to see how other coaches view him as an asset. Offences enter a game cognizant of the best D players and how to avoid their impact on the game. You don't throw to Ramsey's side of the field. You double team Donald. I don't see teams running away from DL's side and are not afraid to throw in his direction when he is in coverage. 

 

We could absolutely switch to 3-4, and it wouldn't be all that painful.

 

I started digging on this last night.

We have plenty of players that either 1) have played in a 3-4 in college, 2) have played 3-4 in the NFL, or 3) have ideal 3-4 traits.

 

Secondary doesn't matter. Our two LBs just become ILBs.

It's really only about taking guys who are now playing 4 positions, and figuring how they fit into 5 positions. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

27 minutes ago, buccolts said:

I'm getting anxious for updates.

It’s kind of weird Cullen was let go from jax yesterday while no one else has been let go. That might of had to happen for a lateral move. We will see if he is the new DC. Ballard is at the senior bowl but Reich isn’t.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

I have no ideal what you are talking about. Different schemes use LBs differently these days. The days of things revolving around the MIKE are gone.

 

The best LB this year, was arguably Parsons (not a MIKE), who plays in Dallas's 4-3 as a SAM, and is a pass rusher in a 3rd of his snaps. Parson's was an All Pro this year... Campbell (GB's All Pro LB) is a 3-4 ILB, who is basically a jack of all trades (plays more the rover, and GB has become a hybrid), who was a conversion from WILL (when he played for ATL).. Then you have Johnson, another 3-4 ILB, but one who plays more the big thumper roll at 255 (and was a top 3 graded OLB)... 

 

In short... those 3, along with Leonard are the three All Pro LBs and top graded guys. They all are very different. GMs don't just build around MIKEs lol...

 

It comes down to what things are more important than others.   Is it important to have a LBer who can blitz if that's what we want more of?  Is it important to cover if we don't want to get dinked by TEs?   

 

SInce we don't use a SAM like DAL does, what LBer in OUR system is supposed to blitz and cover...MIKE or WILL?

 

The players you listed all do more than Leonard and were brought to their respective teams to specifically do more than what Leonard is asked to do.  Rush, Cover, Line up all over.

 

So while we pay a guy $60M to do what a college rookie can do...and DL did as a rookie...we dont have and probably could not afford to pay the LBer who we want to rush the passer or cover.  And people wonder why we can't blitz and cover the middle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

It comes down to what things are more important than others.   Is it important to have a LBer who can blitz if that's what we want more of?  Is it important to cover if we don't want to get dinked by TEs?   

We don't blitz LBs much at all, so not a top priority for us at MIKE or WILL

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

SInce we don't use a SAM like DAL does, what LBer in OUR system is supposed to blitz and cover...MIKE or WILL?

Both WILL and MIKE (in our system) are supposed to cover and tackle. MIKE has a little more coverage responsibility when we play a Tampa 2, but we don't play that a ton. We play more C3 than anything in 1st and 2nd downs, and more C4 (quarters/prevent) on 3rd down. 

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

The players you listed all do more than Leonard and were brought to their respective teams to specifically do more than what Leonard is asked to do.  Rush, Cover, Line up all over.

I disagree. 

Parson is a SAM, which not a ton of 4-3s give the most LB snaps to their SAMs. Dallas is unique, and I'd wager that Dallas and Parson has the highest SAM snaps of almost any 4-3, and also the highest pass rush snaps of any 4-3 OLB. Anyway, highly skewed to pass rushing.

 

Campbell is highly skewed to coverage. He has very little pass rush snaps, and almost twice as many coverage snaps than run D snaps. 

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

So while we pay a guy $60M to do what a college rookie can do...and DL did as a rookie...we dont have and probably could not afford to pay the LBer who we want to rush the passer or cover.  And people wonder why we can't blitz and cover the middle.

We don't blitz dude. We've been blitzing very little for several years... Leonard has been asked to blitz less than 5% of his snaps. Parsons for example blitzes on 33% of his snaps.....

 

And when Leonard has blitzed (he has only 168 times in his 4 years), he's been more successful than any of our other LBs (Oke and Walker) in terms of pressures and sacks. 8.9% (sack per blitz %). Parson's was 11%, which you'd expect given his focus at SAM. But only a 2% difference between Leonard and Parsons.... 

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

We could absolutely switch to 3-4, and it wouldn't be all that painful.

 

I started digging on this last night.

We have plenty of players that either 1) have played in a 3-4 in college, 2) have played 3-4 in the NFL, or 3) have ideal 3-4 traits.

 

Secondary doesn't matter. Our two LBs just become ILBs.

It's really only about taking guys who are now playing 4 positions, and figuring how they fit into 5 positions. 

So Okereke and DL move to the inside and  the are way to light. We dont have any linebackers who can rush the passer. Deforest plays Dend and who is the space eating NT and the other Dend.  Dayo is not a 3-4 end. Who plays man corner as 3-4 defenses usually employ man corners putting their guys on an island.  They don't have the players to play the most important positions in a 3-4. Hell, they don't even have the talent to play the most important positions in a 4-3

[Moosejawcolt]

2 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

The idea of trading DL was never about hate. It was about a player who was seen as elite and wanting a new contract. I just felt that  we could have used it to build a better defense. This defense does not have elite players at the most important positions, Dend and corner. Dont give me that crap about how Ballard views the WLL position as the 2nd most important position.  I would not take much of what Ballard says about a defense as he has been horrible at building one. Polian and I believe Dungy did not really value the LB position. Its all about building the Dline 1st and foremost. Like I have said and people say I know nothing and Ballard is a god. Well let me tell you this. I remember saying in the free agency that I wanted to go after the top corner. I believe either Cincy got him and/or he was a Cincy player.  I cannot remember his name but I remember Chris Simms was very high on him and Ballard never made the move.   When Simmons was on the board, I said move up and trade or  him. He was a top 5 pick at that time and he probably would have cost us a 2nd rounder. I knew he was going to come off the board soon and  I was so p...ed that the Titans got him. The Colts could have gotten a top 5 pick with a late 1st and a 2nd, but Ballard likes those picks. I was p....ed when they passed on Sweat and moved back. Now I believe I posted that. I loved Landry coming out of college and wanted the Colts to get him. I thought he had elite traits and loved his bend. My brother in law is a Titans fan and   we do the draft and he laughs at me because he knows  how I felt about these players. I do believe I also posted a lot of these vies on the forum but people dont want to admit it.  So you tell me. I am the GM and my Dline has Landry, Sweat and Simmons and the corner and I cannot recall his name in free agency last year  and possibly another corner in trading DL. Is that better than what Ballard has assembled? 

Oh and another thing. We built the D the way I would have drafted and used free agency we would have saved that #13 pick because we had Simmons and could have drafted a stud wr. But then again, what do I know?  

[DougDew]

56 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

We don't blitz LBs much at all, so not a top priority for us at MIKE or WILL

Yes, I know.

56 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Both WILL and MIKE (in our system) are supposed to cover and tackle. MIKE has a little more coverage responsibility when we play a Tampa 2, but we don't play that a ton. We play more C3 than anything in 1st and 2nd downs, and more C4 (quarters/prevent) on 3rd down. 

Who has a little more coverage responsibility in C3 and C4,? 

 

Who would be a little more likely to blitz in C3 and C4?

 

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

So Okereke and DL move to the inside and  the are way to light. We dont have any linebackers who can rush the passer. Deforest plays Dend and who is the space eating NT and the other Dend.  Dayo is not a 3-4 end. Who plays man corner as 3-4 defenses usually employ man corners putting their guys on an island.  They don't have the players to play the most important positions in a 3-4. Hell, they don't even have the talent to play the most important positions in a 4-3

 

LOL.. Thanks for the laughs. 

We rarely blitz LBs. 

Leonard is pretty decent when asked to blitz.

There is not a lot of difference between a 3-4 ILBs and either WILL or MIKE in today's 4-2-5 (which is what we run most).

You need to erase weight from your brain.

 

3-4 NTs are no longer just space eating 2 gappers. Most 3-4 NTs these days play one gap when in 0-Tech, and a lot simply play 1-Tech like a 4-3 NT. Vita Vea is probably the best "big" NT out there, and he plays more one gap than 2 gap. Packers NT is Grover sized. Rams NT is Grover sized..... More antiquated assumptions. And same goes for 3-4 DEs... They are not just two gappers anymore.

 

Dude.... shaking my head... Dayo played 3-4 DE at Vandy last year... Defo played 3-4 DE in college, and was drafted when SF was a 3-4. Stallworth played 3-4 NT in college... I can keep going... 

 

Secondary doesn't matter. Plenty of 3-4s play nickel just like we do (and have 3-3-5 looks, similar to our 4-2-5 looks on most snaps), and employ zone concepts. Not every 3-4 is like Wink Martindales (Blitz and play man)... Bucs, who play a 3-4, sits back in a ton of quarters (C4) and Quarter Quarter Half (C6), which both are pretty much prevent on 1st and 2nd. They will blitz and play man on 3rd down though....  You're view again is antiquated in this area. RYS played in a heavy man system in college, and has played a lot more man this year. Perhaps that will make you happy lol... But really, doesn't matter. 

 

[EastStreet]

17 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Oh and another thing. We built the D the way I would have drafted and used free agency we would have saved that #13 pick because we had Simmons and could have drafted a stud wr. But then again, what do I know?  

You should have interviewed for the DC position.

[jvan1973]

17 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Oh and another thing. We built the D the way I would have drafted and used free agency we would have saved that #13 pick because we had Simmons and could have drafted a stud wr. But then again, what do I know?  

Not as much as those on 56th Street. 

[NewColtsFan]

28 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Oh and another thing. We built the D the way I would have drafted and used free agency we would have saved that #13 pick because we had Simmons and could have drafted a stud wr. But then again, what do I know?  

What do you know?    Not as much as you think.   And that’s been PROVEN over and over again.  And you don’t know it.   
 

We’ll start with your Man Crush.  You don’t know that there’s a video of Simmons beating  up a girl in HS who picked a fight with his sister.   A 300 pound young man beating up a young girl.  That was a deal breaker for a franchise that puts a premium on character.  Simmons also hurt his knee working out for the draft.   That’s why he fell to pick 19.   And you don’t know that we could have moved up for a 2nd.  You only think you know.   Par for the course.   
 

Now to Sweat.   He had/has an enlarged heart.  That surfaced from the medical exams at the combine.   Why do you think a likely top-10 pass rushing DE fell to pick 26?   He was removed from most boards.  Too great a risk.   On these kind of decisions, it’s typically NOT the GM who makes the decision.   It’s the owner working with the team doctor.   Because if something goes wrong, and there’s a lawsuit, the owner and the doctor have the deepest pockets.   
 

I loved both players.  Wanted both players.   Followed their story before, during and after the draft.   But some things are just not doable, even if they seem obvious to a fan.  

[EastStreet]

23 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yes, I know.

Who has a little more coverage responsibility in C3 and C4,? 

 

Who would be a little more likely to blitz in C3 and C4?

We (and in general most teams) normally blitz from C1.

If you're blitzing from C3 (zone), I'd say it's likely the WILL blitzing and MIKE covering. But could be either.

You're not really going to blitz from C4 (quarters). Some teams will bring a LB in C4, but they drop a DE when they do.

 

[Jackie Daytona]

4 hours ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Something to watch for. Cullen was let go from jags yesterday. He is the only assistant to be let go. Maybe that had to happen befitting colts could hire him because it’s a latteral move.

Dude interviewed here before being let go?  I'm sure he knew he'd be cut free, and so did the team.  But why not release everyone when urban got canned?  Not like they're coaching anyone currently

[Moosejawcolt]

39 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

What do you know?    Not as much as you think.   And that’s been PROVEN over and over again.  And you don’t know it.   
 

We’ll start with your Man Crush.  You don’t know that there’s a video of Simmons beating  up a girl in HS who picked a fight with his sister.   A 300 pound young man beating up a young girl.  That was a deal breaker for a franchise that puts a premium on character.  Simmons also hurt his knee working out for the draft.   That’s why he fell to pick 19.   And you don’t know that we could have moved up for a 2nd.  You only think you know.   Par for the course.   
 

Now to Sweat.   He had/has an enlarged heart.  That surfaced from the medical exams at the combine.   Why do you think a likely top-10 pass rushing DE fell to pick 26?   He was removed from most boards.  Too great a risk.   On these kind of decisions, it’s typically NOT the GM who makes the decision.   It’s the owner working with the team doctor.   Because if something goes wrong, and there’s a lawsuit, the owner and the doctor have the deepest pockets.   
 

I loved both players.  Wanted both players.   Followed their story before, during and after the draft.   But some things are just not doable, even if they seem obvious to a fan.  

I  agree all those players were gambles and had injury history. Robinson, from the Titans, is not afraid to gamble on players with injury history, but they have the elite traits and college production.  I feel Ballard gambles on players hoping they can play in this scheme. He tends to ignore college production and he has also taken some major risks on players, Banagou, Lewis, Turay ,  Dayo and even Paye were all risks due to injury, moving into another position in the NFL and lack of college production. Ballard always talks about character, but he just traded a 1st and a 3rd for a QB, the leader of your team, who carried a lot of baggage coming out of Philly. Yes, I supported that trade. I get really tired of the character argument.  There are some things I am willing to over look, as I  don't care about their personal life and just want them for their football abilities. Of course there are certain issues that I will not touch, but it has to be really bad.

[Shive]

Let's get this back on track. Unless your discussion is relevant to Schwartz, please take it to another thread.

[jvan1973]

8 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I  agree all those players were gambles and had injury history. Robinson, from the Titans, is not afraid to gamble on players with injury history, but they have the elite traits and college production.  I feel Ballard gambles on players hoping they can play in this scheme. He tends to ignore college production and he has also taken some major risks on players, Banagou, Lewis, Turay ,  Dayo and even Paye were all risks due to injury, moving into another position in the NFL and lack of college production. Ballard always talks about character, but he just traded a 1st and a 3rd for a QB, the leader of your team, who carried a lot of baggage coming out of Philly. Yes, I supported that trade. I get really tired of the character argument.  There are some things I am willing to over look, as I  don't care about their personal life and just want them for their football abilities. Of course there are certain issues that I will not touch, but it has to be really bad.

What baggage did Wentz bring from Philly?   All I heard were rumors

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Looks like it might be Swartz 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

47 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

What do you know?    Not as much as you think.   And that’s been PROVEN over and over again.  And you don’t know it.   
 

We’ll start with your Man Crush.  You don’t know that there’s a video of Simmons beating  up a girl in HS who picked a fight with his sister.   A 300 pound young man beating up a young girl.  That was a deal breaker for a franchise that puts a premium on character.  Simmons also hurt his knee working out for the draft.   That’s why he fell to pick 19.   And you don’t know that we could have moved up for a 2nd.  You only think you know.   Par for the course.   
 

Now to Sweat.   He had/has an enlarged heart.  That surfaced from the medical exams at the combine.   Why do you think a likely top-10 pass rushing DE fell to pick 26?   He was removed from most boards.  Too great a risk.   On these kind of decisions, it’s typically NOT the GM who makes the decision.   It’s the owner working with the team doctor.   Because if something goes wrong, and there’s a lawsuit, the owner and the doctor have the deepest pockets.   
 

I loved both players.  Wanted both players.   Followed their story before, during and after the draft.   But some things are just not doable, even if they seem obvious to a fan.  

PS. I have worked as a  social worker for over 20 years and I have come across a lot of people who needed a  2nd, 3rd and  a 4th chance. I guess that is why I am more willing   grant players like Simmons a 2nd chance. He has been a model citizen since he has been in the NFL. A lot of these players have come from some crappy back grounds and didn't they have the opportunity to be raised in the idyllic middle class family. I believe in embracing some of these players and look to it as a challenge to see if I can make them a better man. Ballard can continue to build a 'nice team' with 'ah shucks players'. I look at the Rams with OBJ and Ramsey and they bring some baggage but they bring an attitude and have elite traits. This team needs some get in your face players. The next D coordinator better bring an aggressive style with him. I remember the previous Oline coach for the Colts that was fired about 3 years ago. To this day, that is the best the Oline had played. Nelson and Smith were at their best, however they let him go because he said a couple of not so nice things. I just think this franchise wants to be to nice at times. Why didn't we go after Deshaun Jackson? Oh yes he brought some baggage and/or Wentz didn't like him maybe? Who cares, we needed him for a couple of games. I love the Robinson and the GM for the Rams. Always gambling. I was also a fan of Fairley this year and wanted the Colts tgo draft him. He blew his ACL and that is a chance you take. My point is if you are going to gamble, I would gamble on a player with elite traits, college production and injury history. The players Ballard gambles on, I believe are head scratchers

[Moosejawcolt]

5 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

What baggage did Wentz bring from Philly?   All I heard were rumors

Baggage. Well the fact that many in Philly believed that he was broken and was ready for the scrap heap. That's baggage. The rumour that he was not that coachable as he felt he was to smart. The rumour that there questions about his leadership. There was a lot coming out of Philly about all these issues