ESPN rookie rankings

[ColtsAC]

There are 20 names listed as this year's top rookies, so far. I think it is telling about Ballard's draft class that no Colt was mentioned. And it is not due to the Colts not playing their draft choices...they are on the field. They just haven't been producing. Ballard 1 out of 3 so far in draft classes.

[Myles]

19 minutes ago, ColtsAC said:

There are 20 names listed as this year's top rookies, so far. I think it is telling about Ballard's draft class that no Colt was mentioned. And it is not due to the Colts not playing their draft choices...they are on the field. They just haven't been producing. Ballard 1 out of 3 so far in draft classes.

That's what you are going with 4 games into the season?

I don't think you watch football much.

 

[That Guy]

There are only 20 names listed.  We didn't pick in the top 20 picks.  This should not be a surprise.

[lollygagger8]

I stopped reading when I saw the letters ESPN 

[coltsva]

2017 Draft = 4 starters(Hooker, Mack, Wilson, Walker), 1 rotational DLineman(Stewart)

 

2018 Draft = 3 starters(Nelson,Leonard,Smith), 2 contributing RB's(Hines,Wilkins), 1 rotational DLineman(Lewis), 1 rotational DE(Turay), 1 rotational WR(Cain), 1 injured WR who would have made the team(Fountain)

 

2019 Draft = 1 Starter(Ya Sin), 1 contributing WR(Campbell) 1 rotational LB/DE(Banogu), 2 contributing LB's(Okereke, Speed), soon to be starting safety(Willis), who knows(Tell)

 

Apparently, unless a rookie comes out of the gate like Leonard or Nelson, he is a bust. Interesting theory.

[ColtStrong2013]

36 minutes ago, That Guy said:

There are only 20 names listed.  We didn't pick in the top 20 picks.  This should not be a surprise.

 

This guy gets it... or is it that guy? Which guy? this guy!

[ColtStrong2013]

28 minutes ago, coltsva said:

2019 Draft = 1 Starter(Ya Sin), 1 contributing WR(Campbell) 1 rotational LB/DE(Banogu), 2 contributing LB's(Okereke, Speed), soon to be starting safety(Willis), who knows(Tell)

 

 

Contributing linebacker Okereke is an understatement. He has started half the season... and in my opinion, is going to be replacing Walker by years end. 

[WarGhost21]

So much hate for Ballard out of the blue. Seriously, people, what is going on??? Would you rather we go back to Grigson??

[John Waylon]

[SteelCityColt]

It would help if you shared a link to the article you're referring to as the only ESPN ratings I can find are top 10: 

 

https://www.espn.co.uk/nfl/story/_/id/27742828/nfl-rookie-rankings-josh-jacobs-tops-list-kyler-murray-it

 

The highest drafted player on the list was Josh Allen at #7, should the fans of teams picking 1-6 be chasing the GMs out the building with pitchforks? 

 

Bad premise, bad analysis, little evidence to support your opinion, and no link to the article. I wouldn't put the OP in my top 10. 

[HectorRoberts]

1 hour ago, ColtsAC said:

There are 20 names listed as this year's top rookies, so far. I think it is telling about Ballard's draft class that no Colt was mentioned. And it is not due to the Colts not playing their draft choices...they are on the field. They just haven't been producing. Ballard 1 out of 3 so far in draft classes.

If he’s 1 for 3 on draft classes then you’re 0 for 1 on topics today, we are 4 games into the season, Leonard wasn’t even in the top 20 rookies last year 4 games in. Let the season play out before you start calling for heads.

[coltsva]

32 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

Contributing linebacker Okereke is an understatement. He has started half the season... and in my opinion, is going to be replacing Walker by years end. 

Not surprising, as he was touted at the draft as a future Hall of Famer.

[HectorRoberts]

34 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

Contributing linebacker Okereke is an understatement. He has started half the season... and in my opinion, is going to be replacing Walker by years end. 

I won’t be surprised if he’s starting over at SAM this week over Adams if Leonard is ready to go

[Coltsfan0112]

All players develop at their own pace. Khari, is playing really well. Rock, is playing solid for a rookie but is also playing one of the hardest positions in the NFL and adjusting to playing Zone scheme. Campbell had no training camp and is still getting his feet wet and Okereke didnt even start week 1. Still to early to judge anything. Some people need to RELAX.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

Contributing linebacker Okereke is an understatement. He has started half the season... and in my opinion, is going to be replacing Walker by years end. 

Okereke has looked horrible. He is not replacing walker. He is clearly not ready yet.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

You can’t judge a draft class until your at least 5 years in. For all we know Leonard might of been a fluke and turn out to be a bust in the long run.

[SteelCityColt]

3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Okereke has looked horrible. He is not replacing walker. He is clearly not ready yet.

 

Horrible is a bit harsh, he's looked raw but hasn't been stand out terrible by any means. Should have had that pick certainly.  He's 2 games in to having serious time on the field and  I wouldn't say Walker has looked head and shoulders better, put it that way. 

 

I would say go have a look at the PFF grades but I know you don't like stuff that doesn't agree with your narrative. 

7 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

You can’t judge a draft class until your at least 5 years in. For all we know Leonard might of been a fluke and turn out to be a bust in the long run.

 

Why 5 years? The oft quoted rule of thumb is 3?

[braveheartcolt]

Go easy on the OP. He is a rookie himself don't ya know....

[Myles]

2 hours ago, ColtsAC said:

There are 20 names listed as this year's top rookies, so far. I think it is telling about Ballard's draft class that no Colt was mentioned. And it is not due to the Colts not playing their draft choices...they are on the field. They just haven't been producing. Ballard 1 out of 3 so far in draft classes.

How do you figure the 2017 draft is one that he didn't hit on?

[SteelCityColt]

17 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

Go easy on the OP. He is a rookie himself don't ya know....

 

Has he hit the wall?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

33 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Horrible is a bit harsh, he's looked raw but hasn't been stand out terrible by any means. Should have had that pick certainly.  He's 2 games in to having serious time on the field and  I wouldn't say Walker has looked head and shoulders better, put it that way. 

 

I would say go have a look at the PFF grades but I know you don't like stuff that doesn't agree with your narrative. 

 

Why 5 years? The oft quoted rule of thumb is 3?

I think I remember someone saying that because rookie contracts are 4 or 5 depending if your a first round or not. 

[BigQungus]

26 minutes ago, Myles said:

How do you figure the 2017 draft is one that he didn't hit on?

 

We got Malik Hooker, Marlon Mack, and Anthony Walker out of that draft! Most teams would call that a success, but over here, people expect a 100% hit rate

[BigQungus]

3 hours ago, ColtsAC said:

There are 20 names listed as this year's top rookies, so far. I think it is telling about Ballard's draft class that no Colt was mentioned. And it is not due to the Colts not playing their draft choices...they are on the field. They just haven't been producing. Ballard 1 out of 3 so far in draft classes.

 

So unless you get 2 rookie All-Pros, it isn't a hit? Is the 2018 draft the standard that you hold? Will you call for Ballard's head if he doesn't get us 2 All-Pros each draft for a few years?

[Yoshinator]

This class has been underwhelming so far, but our first pick was at 34, and we have 3 second round picks, so I believe it will improve. Cornerbacks and Wide Receivers take a while to adapt to the NFL as well. I expect decent years from this class, and a few to start next year.

[Valpo2004]

3 hours ago, ColtsAC said:

There are 20 names listed as this year's top rookies, so far. I think it is telling about Ballard's draft class that no Colt was mentioned. And it is not due to the Colts not playing their draft choices...they are on the field. They just haven't been producing. Ballard 1 out of 3 so far in draft classes.

 

There are so many problems with this post that others have touched on so I'll try and break them all down for you.  

 

1. You say Ballard only hit on 1 out of 3 drafts, and we presume that you are giving him 2018.  But the 2017 draft was productive.  Hooker is a starter, Wilson is a starter, Mack is a starter, and Walker is a starter.  Stewart is a rotational player.  Granted Bashem and Banner where busts.  But we are starting 4 players from that draft right now and one player is rotating.

 

2. You can't judge a draft class based on 4 games.  Usually you need 2 or 3 seasons.  Jared Goff looked like massive bust in his first season.  He's now a franchise QB getting paid franchise money.

 

3. It's ok if we don't have a player in the top 20, even after everything works out.  The question should be if the team was marginally improved by the draft.  

 

4. We didn't pick til like pick 34 so we shouldn't be expected to have a top 20 player.  

 

5. Furthermore especially this early on, the players who draw the most attention for these lists are the top players who are picked.  Darius Leonard worked out to be defensive rookie of the year.  But if you had put up a top 20 rookies list after week 4 there is a good chance he wouldn't be on it.  That's because with so little to go on, the "name" players get the benefit of the doubt.  

[aaron11]

4 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

5. Furthermore especially this early on, the players who draw the most attention for these lists are the top players who are picked.  Darius Leonard worked out to be defensive rookie of the year.  But if you had put up a top 20 rookies list after week 4 there is a good chance he wouldn't be on it.  That's because with so little to go on, the "name" players get the benefit of the doubt.  

he had a good first game, and really broke out in his second winning player of the week.  he would have been there imo

[ColtsAC]

3 hours ago, Myles said:

That's what you are going with 4 games into the season?

I don't think you watch football much.

 

Totally willing to let time prove my point. That's what being a Colts fan since 1958 will do, and I haven't missed a Colts game in decades.

Snarky comments are easy...lets let results on the field do the talking.

[Jason_]

15 minutes ago, ColtsAC said:

Totally willing to let time prove my point. That's what being a Colts fan since 1958 will do, and I haven't missed a Colts game in decades.

Snarky comments are easy...lets let results on the field do the talking.

 

Yes let's do that.  Let's also give the rookie class TIME to adjust to the NFL and develop into the players they are going to be.  Making a determination on them after 4 games is asinine.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

How do you figure the 2017 draft is one that he didn't hit on?

 

Not a miss...but not very good. 

[Coltsfan0112]

2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Okereke has looked horrible. He is not replacing walker. He is clearly not ready yet.

I don't see Okereke replacing Walker this year as well unless he improves. But ill say he does have the tools and has shown flashes. He just hasn't been as instinctive which should come in time. My thing with with Walker is he's been missing so many tackles this year and coverage is a huge liability.

[WoolMagnet]

4 hours ago, That Guy said:

There are only 20 names listed.  We didn't pick in the top 20 picks.  This should not be a surprise.

You are too smart to be on this forum.

No............. seriously.

[Dark_Indy]

This is insane talk.

 

Ballards first draft brought us Hooker and Mack. We also have Walker (7th round pick) and Wilson starting considerable time. Not to mention we got a two year rental out of Hairston at the cost of one round in the draft. (Drafted 5th, traded for 6th)

Home run? Nah, but serviceable draft. Hookers injury bug cant really be blamed on the GM. That one handed interception was insane. 

 

2018- 2 all pro rookies, another above average guard, a handful of solid players as well. I would say this draft class is better than 2012, in all honesty. May be high praise, but we will see how this pans out.

 

2019- how, in all of the earth can you even make a decision about the rookies this far? The defense, while far from consistent is still one one of the least penalized defenses in the league (#3 per NFL.com) 

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

I don't see Okereke replacing Walker this year as well unless he improves. But ill say he does have the tools and has shown flashes. He just hasn't been as instinctive which should come in time. My thing with with Walker is he's been missing so many tackles this year and coverage is a huge liability.

You have to remember walker has been playing out of position. Eberflus said it’s like going from right to left tackle. It also shows how much walker and Leonard compliment each other and know each other so well. If anything walker should of stayed at the mike and okereke at will while Leonard was out.

[shasta519]

The OP had to know what type of response this post would get.

 

I don't agree with the OP...or the idea that a rookie class can be judged this early.

 

However, on the subject of drafting, I will point out that in the past 3 drafts...the Colts have selected 18 defensive players (out of 29 total players)...and four weeks into this season...the Colts are currently #31 according to DVOA (only ahead of MIA...and somehow behind CIN). Injuries have been an issue...but even at full health...they have been a bottom-tier group. We will see where they finish...but if they are still a bottom 4th team at the end of the season...we might need to consider changes.

[ColtStrong2013]

2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Okereke has looked horrible. He is not replacing walker. He is clearly not ready yet.

 

Have you been watching Walker in coverage? Do you know why we lost Sunday? A great deal can be put on this defense giving up big first downs in 3rd and long... and Walker was to blame for several. Okereke is a little raw, but the potential is through the roof. Walker is starting to peak, and that's not great. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

8 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

Have you been watching Walker in coverage? Do you know why we lost Sunday? A great deal can be put on this defense giving up big first downs in 3rd and long... and Walker was to blame for several. Okereke is a little raw, but the potential is through the roof. Walker is starting to peak, and that's not great. 

Read my above post. Walker is playing out of position with the Leonard injury.

[ColtStrong2013]

11 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Read my above post. Walker is playing out of position with the Leonard injury.

 

That doesn't change the fact that he's a liability in coverage. Which there is very little difference in zone between Mike and Will backers. 

[MPStack]

13 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

The OP had to know what type of response this post would get.

 

I don't agree with the OP...or the idea that a rookie class can be judged this early.

 

However, on the subject of drafting, I will point out that in the past 3 drafts...the Colts have selected 18 defensive players (out of 29 total players)...and four weeks into this season...the Colts are currently #31 according to DVOA (only ahead of MIA...and somehow behind CIN). Injuries have been an issue...but even at full health...they have been a bottom-tier group. We will see where they finish...but if they are still a bottom 4th team at the end of the season...we might need to consider changes.

 

Well said! 

 

I really hope that Lewis, Turay, Banogu and Rock become solid players. Like you stated, Ballard has invested a lot of picks on the defense. Q. Wilson hasn’t panned out and these guys were all 2nd Rd picks. Lot of draft capital there, for a defense that needs difference makers. 

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

There is a lot of reasons the defense looked so bad Sunday. You had Wilson only taking 9 snaps. Desir only took 35% and he is usually a 100% guy. That means you had rock and Moore playing outside. So that took Moore out of the slot. We were limited in packages we could run. Add no Leonard and walker playing out of position with all the rookies it’s not hard to see why the defense looked so bad.  The good news is Desir is 100% now and Leonard should be back. Rookies are also getting a ton of playing time which in the long run will make this team stronger.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

12 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

That doesn't change the fact that he's a liability in coverage. Which there is very little difference in zone between Mike and Will backers. 

Eberflus would disagree. He said in his presser it’s like switching from right to left tackle.