ESPN rookie rankings

[ColtStrong2013]

10 minutes ago, MPStack said:

 

Well said! 

 

I really hope that Lewis, Turay, Banogu and Rock become solid players. Like you stated, Ballard has invested a lot of picks on the defense. Q. Wilson hasn’t panned out and these guys were all 2nd Rd picks. Lot of draft capital there, for a defense that needs difference makers. 

 

 

 

And they likely will with time. These guys are stupid young. Wilson is 3 months younger than Ya-Sin! There are times I see the upside in wilson and times I scratch my head and think he'll never live up to a 2nd round pick. But man, he is still a kid. A lot of these guys are. We are still in a rebuild. We have to stay patient with this defense and youth on the roster. I am very optimistic that it will get there. 

[ColtStrong2013]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Eberflus would disagree. He said in his presser it’s like switching from right to left tackle. 

...especially for a Middle linebacker that couldn't cover to begin with. 

[HoosierHero]

1 hour ago, ColtsAC said:

Totally willing to let time prove my point. That's what being a Colts fan since 1958 will do, and I haven't missed a Colts game in decades.

Snarky comments are easy...lets let results on the field do the talking.

It might just be me, but this post sounds contradictory. You claim to be a Colts fan since 1958 yet it seems like you are rooting against this draft class just so your point is made. If so that’s interesting. Again, I may just be reading this wrong. 

[Myles]

1 hour ago, shastamasta said:

 

Not a miss...but not very good. 

I would venture a guess that 4 starters from a draft 2.5 years ago is above average in the NFL.  

[coltsva]

2 hours ago, aaron11 said:

he had a good first game, and really broke out in his second winning player of the week.  he would have been there imo

The 2018 top 10 rookies after 4 weeks by PFF had Leonard and 14 others (including QB Josh Rosen) as “honorable mention.”

[Fisticuffs111]

This draft class was all about potential. Which seemed like the common opinion at the time. But then people, either because of TC reports or just offseason hype, started thinking guys like Rock and Banogu would set the league on fire and that was never gonna happen.

Rock is raw (and as much as I was meh on the pick, he's seemingly improving with each game). Banogu is very raw. Campbell's learning/being asked to do a lot more than what very basic stuff he was doing at OSU. Tell's changing positions. Speed's a project.

 

It was kind of a ballsy draft by Ballard. It'll be interesting to see how these guys develop.

[jameszeigler834]

6 hours ago, ColtsAC said:

There are 20 names listed as this year's top rookies, so far. I think it is telling about Ballard's draft class that no Colt was mentioned. And it is not due to the Colts not playing their draft choices...they are on the field. They just haven't been producing. Ballard 1 out of 3 so far in draft classes.

Its way too early to say that 3 more years down the road will tell the tale.

[jameszeigler834]

5 hours ago, coltsva said:

2017 Draft = 4 starters(Hooker, Mack, Wilson, Walker), 1 rotational DLineman(Stewart)

 

2018 Draft = 3 starters(Nelson,Leonard,Smith), 2 contributing RB's(Hines,Wilkins), 1 rotational DLineman(Lewis), 1 rotational DE(Turay), 1 rotational WR(Cain), 1 injured WR who would have made the team(Fountain)

 

2019 Draft = 1 Starter(Ya Sin), 1 contributing WR(Campbell) 1 rotational LB/DE(Banogu), 2 contributing LB's(Okereke, Speed), soon to be starting safety(Willis), who knows(Tell)

 

Apparently, unless a rookie comes out of the gate like Leonard or Nelson, he is a bust. Interesting theory.

Its nonsense.

[CurBeatElite]

4 hours ago, BigQungus said:

 

We got Malik Hooker, Marlon Mack, and Anthony Walker out of that draft! Most teams would call that a success, but over here, people expect a 100% hit rate

 

Look at the last few drafts of the Polian era -- our best player from the 2009 draft wound up being a punter in the 7th round (by far the most valuable to the team/organization from that draft was McAfee).  The 2010 draft was a total bust with Jerry Hughes winding up having some success in Buffalo, but no other player from that draft really did anything for us (Angerer has a decent year or two before getting cut and retiring).  The 2011 draft we got Costanzo in round 1, and Ijalana became decent elsewhere -- nobody else from that draft did anything for us.  The 2012 draft w/ Grigson we got Luck and TY who were (TY still is) stars for us.. we got a few decent years from Fleener and Allen and 1 good year from Ballard, so essentially 5 players contributing (I suppose maybe Chapman but seems like he was hurt or not productive).  We essentially got nothing from the 2013 draft (Werner, Holmes, Thornton were all busts, and Hughes never lived to his potential our late round picks did nothing).  The 2014 draft -- Mewhort was good prior to injuries cutting his career short, Newsome showed potential but got busted w/ dope and now plays in CFL, Moncrief was decent at best).  The 2015 draft -- we got a good rookie year from H. Anderson but he never really panned out for us due to injuries, Parry had a decent year or 2, Dorsett and Denzelle Goode seem decent now but for other teams after doing little to nothing for us, and Geathers is still around.  The 2016 draft -- Kelly is a stud, Ridgeway was nothing more than decent and Clark and Haeg are still with us as backups.  

_____________________________

Enter Ballard -- so far he has had a better draft in every year that he's been here since at least 2009 (further than that really, maybe 2006 or 2003 compare to the 2017 draft, but other than a few studs (Marvin, Peyton, Reggie, Edge) in other years, Polian rarely had drafts which had >4 players starting and playing key roles after 2.5 years.

 

I believe many experts think batting .500 (i.e., 50% or more picks become valuable players)  is very good for the NFL draft.  So far Ballard is  >75%, so he is doing pretty darn well.  Especially considering these guys he has been drafting came to one of the worst teams talent-wise in the NFL (aside from Luck, TY, Vinatieri, Costanzo, Geathers, Kelly and maybe 1 or 2 others, our team was pretty much garbage when Ballard took it over, in large part due to very poor drafts from our previous GMs).

 

3 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

There are so many problems with this post that others have touched on so I'll try and break them all down for you.  

 

1. You say Ballard only hit on 1 out of 3 drafts, and we presume that you are giving him 2018.  But the 2017 draft was productive.  Hooker is a starter, Wilson is a starter, Mack is a starter, and Walker is a starter.  Stewart is a rotational player.  Granted Bashem and Banner where busts.  But we are starting 4 players from that draft right now and one player is rotating.

 

2. You can't judge a draft class based on 4 games.  Usually you need 2 or 3 seasons.  Jared Goff looked like massive bust in his first season.  He's now a franchise QB getting paid franchise money.

 

3. It's ok if we don't have a player in the top 20, even after everything works out.  The question should be if the team was marginally improved by the draft.  

 

4. We didn't pick til like pick 34 so we shouldn't be expected to have a top 20 player.  

 

5. Furthermore especially this early on, the players who draw the most attention for these lists are the top players who are picked.  Darius Leonard worked out to be defensive rookie of the year.  But if you had put up a top 20 rookies list after week 4 there is a good chance he wouldn't be on it.  That's because with so little to go on, the "name" players get the benefit of the doubt.  

 

Basham is actually playing pretty well for the NYJ this year as a rotational player.  And we got a draft pick for Hairston from that draft, so he's another guy that can still play in the NFL, but the way Ballard went about this off-season, we just didn't have room for him in our secondary.  Banner didn't work out for us, but he's still in the league as a back-up on the Steelers.  So that puts Ballard at drafting 8 of 8 players in his first draft that are still on NFL rosters in their 3rd year, which is pretty darned good.

 

Aside from Fountain being hurt/IRed from the 2nd draft (Fountain would likely have made this team),  every player drafted is still in the NFL in year 2.  That is remarkable.  And just about every one of them plays a decent role for us.

 

This past draft saw Javon Patterson go to the IR, and Gerri Green and Jackson Barton to our practice squad... so technically all of our draft picks from the past draft are still in the NFL.

 

If you look at it that way, Ballard's retention rate of drafting NFL Caliber players is 8-8 in year 1, 11-11 in year 2, and 10-10 in year 3.... take out Fountain, Patterson, Green and Barton (guys that are IRed or P-squad) and he's 25/29 (0.86), remove Hairston, Basham and Banner (guys who are still in the NFL but on other teams) and he's 22/29 (76%).  I would venture to guess there are very few, if any GMs who have the same or better NFL retention rates in the past 3 years.

 

2 hours ago, shastamasta said:

The OP had to know what type of response this post would get.

 

I don't agree with the OP...or the idea that a rookie class can be judged this early.

 

However, on the subject of drafting, I will point out that in the past 3 drafts...the Colts have selected 18 defensive players (out of 29 total players)...and four weeks into this season...the Colts are currently #31 according to DVOA (only ahead of MIA...and somehow behind CIN). Injuries have been an issue...but even at full health...they have been a bottom-tier group. We will see where they finish...but if they are still a bottom 4th team at the end of the season...we might need to consider changes.

 

The DVOA has our run D as 32.  Kind of surprising as that was our strength last year.  So far, Ballard has addressed the DL the least out of defensive positions in the draft (Turay was brought in as a pass rusher, Lewis has been hurt, Stewart still needs to improve, and Bangonu is kind of a hybrid type player -- but the majority of Ballard's picks on D have been LB and secondary). 

 

Sheard just got his first action since very early preseason last week, he was our best run defender on the DL last year, so hopefully his addition will help improve.  Lewis, I think, is pretty good against the run, and has been hurt.  Hunt doesn't look quite as good this year as he did last year (IMO), and I'm not sure if that's solely on him or if that's due to the lack of a big guy next to him.   And then we've been dealing with some injuries at LB (mainly Leonard)... so hopefully we'll see the run D improve as our players get healthier...  the biggest disappointment to me so far is the lack of consistency in pass rush, however...  Houston has been pretty underwhelming, and after showing flashes in game 1 I don't notice Turay nearly as much (I was hoping and somewhat expecting this would be a breakout year for him, but he's off to  a slow start w/ 1 sack in 4 games).  

 

Hopefully when our guys start coming back from injuries we'll see our D improve as the year goes on.... at least they are keeping us in games, though.  They've not given up more than 24 points in regular time so far, and when our O is healthy we should have enough talent to put up 24+ versus most opponents.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

The run D regressing doesn’t surprise me. We played trash QB last year for the most part. It was easy to stop the run when there was no passing threat.

[BigQungus]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

The run D regressing doesn’t surprise me. We played trash QB last year for the most part. It was easy to stop the run when there was no passing threat.

 

Also we haven't had Leonard for 3 games, and even the 1 game he played he was pretty bad. Not saying he'll fix everything, but that has to be at least some big part. As well as us having to devote more player to the back half of the field because of Hooker's injury

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, BigQungus said:

 

Also we haven't had Leonard for 3 games, and even the 1 game he played he was pretty bad. Not saying he'll fix everything, but that has to be at least some big part. As well as us having to devote more player to the back half of the field because of Hooker's injury

It also puts walker back at his natural position. Walker might struggle some in the pass game but he is pretty good in the run game.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I am actually interested to see how Wilson does at safety. He said today safety is easier then corner.

[BigQungus]

Just now, Chloe6124 said:

It also puts walker back at his natural position. Walker might struggle some in the pass game but he is pretty good in the run game.

 

Also forgot to mention, Sheard is very good against the run. That's Turay's weakness, just cause he isn't big enough. Sheard made a few nice plays against the Raiders run game, although obviously Josh Jacobs still gashed us

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, BigQungus said:

 

Also forgot to mention, Sheard is very good against the run. That's Turay's weakness, just cause he isn't big enough. Sheard made a few nice plays against the Raiders run game, although obviously Josh Jacobs still gashed us

Kind of sad a guy who hasn’t played and missed all training camp was the best player on the field Sunday. Yeah getting players back should help a ton. Everything on defense has been so messed up with injuries.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

8 minutes ago, BigQungus said:

 

Also we haven't had Leonard for 3 games, and even the 1 game he played he was pretty bad. Not saying he'll fix everything, but that has to be at least some big part. As well as us having to devote more player to the back half of the field because of Hooker's injury

Leonard played in TN. He has only missed 2.

[2006Coltsbestever]

28 minutes ago, BigQungus said:

 

Also we haven't had Leonard for 3 games, and even the 1 game he played he was pretty bad. Not saying he'll fix everything, but that has to be at least some big part. As well as us having to devote more player to the back half of the field because of Hooker's injury

Leonard had 10 tackles and a sack at Tennessee in game 2. Big reason why we won actually.

[IndySouthsider]

11 hours ago, ColtsAC said:

There are 20 names listed as this year's top rookies, so far. I think it is telling about Ballard's draft class that no Colt was mentioned. And it is not due to the Colts not playing their draft choices...they are on the field. They just haven't been producing. Ballard 1 out of 3 so far in draft classes.

I see what you did there Mr. Grigson.

[BigQungus]

17 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Leonard had 10 tackles and a sack at Tennessee in game 2. Big reason why we won actually.

 

Ah, must've slipped my mind. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, BigQungus said:

 

Ah, must've slipped my mind. 

Don't worry every time Jacoby plays good it slips many minds  . 

[Scott Pennock]

12 hours ago, ColtsAC said:

There are 20 names listed as this year's top rookies, so far. I think it is telling about Ballard's draft class that no Colt was mentioned. And it is not due to the Colts not playing their draft choices...they are on the field. They just haven't been producing. Ballard 1 out of 3 so far in draft classes.

Ballard has hit on all three drafts. 

1. Every player drafted is on an NFL roster.

2. Every draft has netted 2+ starters.

3. He drafted 2 All-Pro's in 3 years.

 

I'm not sure what team you're watching....

[Moosejawcolt]

14 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

Contributing linebacker Okereke is an understatement. He has started half the season... and in my opinion, is going to be replacing Walker by years end. 

Have u watched any of our linebackers??? I don't care if Bobby replaces Walkers, they r all getting man handled 

[Moosejawcolt]

10 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

There is a lot of reasons the defense looked so bad Sunday. You had Wilson only taking 9 snaps. Desir only took 35% and he is usually a 100% guy. That means you had rock and Moore playing outside. So that took Moore out of the slot. We were limited in packages we could run. Add no Leonard and walker playing out of position with all the rookies it’s not hard to see why the defense looked so bad.  The good news is Desir is 100% now and Leonard should be back. Rookies are also getting a ton of playing time which in the long run will make this team stronger.

So how do explain the other times that this D has looked over whelmed against above average quarter backs?  We cant continually blame this defences lack of performance on injuries.  

[ColtStrong2013]

8 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Have u watched any of our linebackers??? I don't care if Bobby replaces Walkers, they r all getting man handled 

 

Starts with the d-line getting abused...

[NFLfan]

On 10/3/2019 at 12:12 PM, shastamasta said:

The OP had to know what type of response this post would get.

 

I don't agree with the OP...or the idea that a rookie class can be judged this early.

 

However, on the subject of drafting, I will point out that in the past 3 drafts...the Colts have selected 18 defensive players (out of 29 total players)...and four weeks into this season...the Colts are currently #31 according to DVOA (only ahead of MIA...and somehow behind CIN). Injuries have been an issue...but even at full health...they have been a bottom-tier group. We will see where they finish...but if they are still a bottom 4th team at the end of the season...we might need to consider changes.

 

I wonder how the Colts defense ranked in DVOA after the Chiefs game? They limited the explosive Chiefs offense to under 14 points.

[shasta519]

3 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

I wonder how the Colts defense ranked in DVOA after the Chiefs game? They limited the explosive Chiefs offense to under 14 points.

 

They moved up to the 20/s I think.