ColtsBlueFL Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 2 hours ago, IndyD4U said: From @csmopar For those that want to know.... cutting Vontae just saved us 9 million bucks with a cap hit of 1.25 million. per OTC dot com I doubt it... that 9 million was base salary. Now that the season started with VD on the roster, it became fully guaranteed. So Colts are still on the hook for all of that 9 million cash payout, and that plus the 1.25 mil prorated bonus on cap hit. No savings, but no more VD either. I’m sure SuperMan will chime in with all the all the info/corrections (if necessary) soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewColtsFan Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 9 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said: Can’t release an injured player... so... that’s the name of that tune. (Medically not injured) He's having surgery... that says he's hurt. He's being paid the rest of his salary and I suspect the team is paying for the surgery and rehab. They just don't want him at the complex. I think there is a LOT to this story that we may never find out. This seems like a puzzle with many pieces missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard pallo Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 2 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said: Obviously Vontae quit on the team for being shopped around or demoted. Ballard making an example of probably our best defender is outstanding. Hopefully we can continue to right the ship. We just need to start hitting on our 1-3 draft picks. They either don’t preform or often injured. It was a coaches decision to bench him. Vontae didn't like it. Pagano and Ballard were on the same page here. Looks like they are working well together on building the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stitches Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 We probably don't know all the little things going behind the scene but this is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. It doesn't seem like they handled it very well. For what it's worth, I loved Vontae and he has been one of our best defensive player in the last 5 or so years. I'm sad to see him go and I wish him all the best with his rehab and wherever he lands after it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKColt13 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Can’t moan about your play time when you aren’t healthy. Setting a culture. Good move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColtsBlueFL Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 15 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said: He's having surgery... that says he's hurt. He's being paid the rest of his salary and I suspect the team is paying for the surgery and rehab. They just don't want him at the complex. I think there is a LOT to this story that we may never find out. This seems like a puzzle with many pieces missing. OK, that’s part 2, true. But was he officially injured on the Colts medical team notes? Was it reported to the NFL on the official injury report? Was VD hiding his injury? Davis gets all of his money, and Colts all of his cap hit regardless. So do the Colts have to IR him, then cut him paying out full contract? Or can they just cut him which they appeared to have done) like he has no injury and still be on the hook for his 9 million salary (and 1.25 million prorated bonus for cap hit)? Interesting scenario here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmopar Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 26 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said: We are releasing him, in part,because he's having surgery. Who has surgery when they're NOT injured? So, in fact he WAS/IS injured... That's what I dont understand. rules say he can't be released if injured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmopar Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said: OK, that’s part 2, true. But was he officially injured on the Colts medical team notes? Was it reported to the NFL on the official injury report? Was VD hiding his injury? Davis gets all of his money, and Colts all of his cap hit regardless. So do the Colts have to IR him, then cut him paying out full contract? Or can they just cut him which they appeared to have done) like he has no injury and still be on the hook for his 9 million salary (and 1.25 million prorated bonus for cap hit)? Interesting scenario here... that's what im trying to figure out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy1888 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said: OK, that’s part 2, true. But was he officially injured on the Colts medical team notes? Was it reported to the NFL on the official injury report? Was VD hiding his injury? Davis gets all of his money, and Colts all of his cap hit regardless. So do the Colts have to IR him, then cut him paying out full contract? Or can they just cut him which they appeared to have done) like he has no injury and still be on the hook for his 9 million salary (and 1.25 million prorated bonus for cap hit)? Interesting scenario here... I don't believe that Davis was listed on the injury report. As for VD hiding the injury, Adam Schefter said he had been receiving treatment on the injury every single morning so if thats true i don't know how the Colts could have not known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmopar Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Just now, indy1888 said: I don't believe that Davis was listed on the injury report. As for VD hiding the injury, Adam Schefter said he had been receiving treatment on the injury every single morning so if thats true i don't know how the Colts could have not known. we're gonna find out in 7 minutes, Dakich says hes asking that very question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luck is Good Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Not surprised. He mailed it in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewColtsFan Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 11 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said: OK, that’s part 2, true. But was he officially injured on the Colts medical team notes? Was it reported to the NFL on the official injury report? Was VD hiding his injury? Davis gets all of his money, and Colts all of his cap hit regardless. So do the Colts have to IR him, then cut him paying out full contract? Or can they just cut him which they appeared to have done) like he has no injury and still be on the hook for his 9 million salary (and 1.25 million prorated bonus for cap hit)? Interesting scenario here... 6 minutes ago, csmopar said: That's what I dont understand. rules say he can't be released if injured You both make good points.... I'm speculating some type of agreement has been reached with Vonte and his agent. Vonte gets the rest of his salary plus a check for expected surgery and rehab. So far there is no report of Vonte challenging being released. I'd expect we would hear something if the Colts were screwing the guy and doing something possibly not allowed by the CBA... We will see if anything happens in the next few days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewColtsFan Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, Luck is Good said: Not surprised. He mailed it in Vonte has been hurt. Ripped his groin in the third pre-season game and came back too soon. So he's been playing hurt. He hasn't been mailing it in.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmopar Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said: Vonte has been hurt. Ripped his groin in the third pre-season game and came back too soon. So he's been playing hurt. He hasn't been mailing it in.... Ballard just said bluntly, that prior to Davis' demotion that Vontae had not made a single complaint about his groin since week 4 and that the decision to bench him was 100% performance based and the Vontae pulled the injury card AFTER they benched him. Davis was fully medically cleared and no injury was known to the Colts as of Friday. So somewhere between Friday and Sunday, Davis somehow got injured without playing....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueShoe Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 3 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said: Shocked but not Shocked Yeah. Something was strange about the way Chuck answered the reporters after the game. They asked about Vontae and he said it was a coach’s decision. He even repeated his answer. “It was a coach's decision.” At the time, I thought the way Pagano answered was very odd. So no. Not surprised at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakedownstreet Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 3 hours ago, Everyone said: That's one way to cure VD... No one likes this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmopar Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, shakedownstreet said: No one likes this! I did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakedownstreet Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, csmopar said: I did No one is a forum member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfunky14 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said: Vonte has been hurt. Ripped his groin in the third pre-season game and came back too soon. So he's been playing hurt. He hasn't been mailing it in.... Well then he shouldn't have been on the field then, his play hurt the team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmopar Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, shakedownstreet said: No one is a forum member HUH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throwing BBZ Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 3 hours ago, csmopar said: For those that want to know.... cutting Vontae just saved us 9 million bucks with a cap hit of 1.25 million. per OTC dot com https://overthecap.com/calculator/indianapolis-colts HOPEFULLY this helps.https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2013/9/7/4703146/eagles-vested-veterans-contracts-guaranteed-NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahagga73 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 20 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said: Vonte has been hurt. Ripped his groin in the third pre-season game and came back too soon. So he's been playing hurt. He hasn't been mailing it in.... He's been cleared to play for weeks. Every player is nursing some kind of injury by now. He pouted that he was benched for poor performance , using injury as an excuse . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Waylon Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 3 hours ago, 21isSuperman said: Why? Vontae was upset with the Colts, the Colts claimed they had done nothing wrong. Vontae is underperforming, getting old, and injured. He's also in a contract year, and the trade deadline has passed. The Colts want to get younger. Releasing him was the right move Why now? Pagano is nothing if not fiercely loyal. With the the strange events of last weekend, and the chirping between both sides going on there's definitely more here than meets the eye. Even when it's clear that a player will be leaving the team in free agency, teams don't just cut the cord at random like this after said player gets demoted and indicates that he won't be back. Especially a player as good as he has been, and he can be. This is not just business as usual. Way too much extra curricular activity here for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard pallo Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, John Waylon said: Why now? Pagano is nothing if not fiercely loyal. With the the strange events of last weekend, and the chirping between both sides going on there's definitely more here than meets the eye. Even when it's clear that a player will be leaving the team in free agency, teams don't just cut the cord at random like this after said player gets demoted and indicates that he won't be back. Especially a player as good as he has been, and he can be. This is not just business as usual. Way too much extra curricular activity here for that. Just read the statement from Pagano posted a little while ago on this site. Says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewColtsFan Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 21 minutes ago, csmopar said: Ballard just said bluntly, that prior to Davis' demotion that Vontae had not made a single complaint about his groin since week 4 and that the decision to bench him was 100% performance based and the Vontae pulled the injury card AFTER they benched him. Davis was fully medically cleared and no injury was known to the Colts as of Friday. So somewhere between Friday and Sunday, Davis somehow got injured without playing....... Vonte is having surgery. Do you know anyone who has surgery when they're NOT injured? Me neither..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewColtsFan Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 15 minutes ago, tfunky14 said: Well then he shouldn't have been on the field then, his play hurt the team... Yes.... and Vonte said as much in his interview yesterday. But it he thought he could help the team. Turns out he was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everyone Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 25 minutes ago, shakedownstreet said: No one likes this! 19 minutes ago, csmopar said: HUH? I think he means @Nobody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewColtsFan Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 9 minutes ago, mahagga73 said: He's been cleared to play for weeks. Every player is nursing some kind of injury by now. He pouted that he was benched for poor performance , using injury as an excuse . Ive been posting this repeatedly in this thread, so my apologies that you've missed them all... Vonte is having surgery. Do you know anyone who has surgery when they're NOT hurt? I don't. Players and teams disagreeing over an injury and treatment is one of the longest on-going issues players and management have. Been around forever... it it appears it's just hit the Colts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dw49 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said: I doubt it... that 9 million was base salary. Now that the season started with VD on the roster, it became fully guaranteed. So Colts are still on the hook for all of that 9 million cash payout, and that plus the 1.25 mil prorated bonus on cap hit. No savings, but no more VD either. I’m sure SuperMan will chime in with all the all the info/corrections (if necessary) soon. I'm thinking (pretty positive) that this move has no effect what so ever on our 2018 cap. His whole contract was coming off the books in 2017.The remaining 1.25 to be amortized (signing bonus) is already into the 2017 cap. Doesn't matter if he's on the team or not. Same with his base. So IMO effect on the cap room we will have entering the 2018 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sears Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 There are lots of comments, so if this is repeating something, I apologize. But, are NFL teams limited as to how many players can be on the IR? If so, maybe we reached that limit and releasing Davis was the only way we could open up a roster spot? If that's the case, maybe it had nothing to do with performance, etc. But, if that's the case, then I would think that would have been offered as the explanation. Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coltfreak Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 27 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said: Ive been posting this repeatedly in this thread, so my apologies that you've missed them all... Vonte is having surgery. Do you know anyone who has surgery when they're NOT hurt? I don't. Players and teams disagreeing over an injury and treatment is one of the longest on-going issues players and management have. Been around forever... it it appears it's just hit the Colts.... Well apparently it's cosmetic surgery because he can't be released if he it actually injured You keep responding the the same thing but it's not true He can't be released if he's injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincetonTiger Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Barry Sears said: There are lots of comments, so if this is repeating something, I apologize. But, are NFL teams limited as to how many players can be on the IR? If so, maybe we reached that limit and releasing Davis was the only way we could open up a roster spot? If that's the case, maybe it had nothing to do with performance, etc. But, if that's the case, then I would think that would have been offered as the explanation. Just curious. JMO I think he has an injury but CP, CB and others were/are upset with the treatment and/or his demeanor when suggestions were made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincetonTiger Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Coltfreak said: Well apparently it's cosmetic surgery because he can't be released if he it actually injured You keep responding the the same thing but it's not true He can't be released if he's injured. It happens all the time (see injury settlements) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coltfreak Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said: It happens all the time (see injury settlements) Sure if there is a settlement. I agree. But no where has that been stated. Maybe it will be but as of right now the info out there he was cut therefore no injury. Again it might change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmopar Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said: It happens all the time (see injury settlements) Injury settlements can only take place by a certain date..... we are passed that date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincetonTiger Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 38 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said: Vonte is having surgery. Do you know anyone who has surgery when they're NOT injured? Me neither..... I do(me) but it was for corrective purposes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincetonTiger Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Coltfreak said: Sure if there is a settlement. I agree. But no where has that been stated. Maybe it will be but as of right now am deathly the info out there he was cut therefore no injury. Again it might change It is about vested veteran status and contract wording Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coltfreak Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, csmopar said: Injury settlements can only take place by a certain date..... we are passed that date. I didn't know that. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmopar Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 44 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said: Vonte is having surgery. Do you know anyone who has surgery when they're NOT injured? Me neither..... Actually, yes I do. Many people have surgery when they're not injured. Bradley Manning, Bruce Jenner and several other confused individuals. There's also exploratory surgery to seem if there is something wrong. So yeah, it happens quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincetonTiger Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, csmopar said: Injury settlements can only take place by a certain date..... we are passed that date. KC gave Cairo Santos a few weeks ago so it is more to do with veteran status Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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