Vontae Davis released

[NewColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

Well apparently it's cosmetic surgery because he can't be released if he it actually injured   

 

You keep responding the the same thing but it's not true 

 

He can't be released if he's injured.  

 

You can if you negotiate a settlement which the two sides appear to have done.

 

Vonte is having surgery,  so he is hurt.

 

The team has released him.

 

Neither Vonte or his agent are complaining that the team has done anything illegal.

 

So everyone appears satisfied.   

 

What you you choose to believe is out of my control...

 

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Actually, yes I do.  Many people have surgery when they're not injured.  Bradley Manning, Bruce Jenner and several other confused individuals.

 

There's also exploratory surgery to seem if there is something wrong.  So yeah, it happens quite a bit.

 

Thats nit what I'm talking about and you know it.    That's just being argumentative.

 

Do you know an ATHLETE who has surgery when he's not hurt?    No.

 

[csmopar]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

Thats nit what I'm talking about and you know it.    That's just being argumentative.

 

Do you know an ATHLETE who has surgery when he's not hurt?    No.

 

actually.... yes. it happens ALL the time.  

[Coltfreak]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You can if you negotiate a settlement which the two sides appear to have done.

 

Vonte is having surgery,  so he is hurt.

 

The team has released him.

 

Neither Vonte or his agent are complaining that the team has done anything illegal.

 

So everyone appears satisfied.   

 

What you you choose to believe is out of my control...

 

Do you have a link about that settlement you speak of?

[B~Town]

4 hours ago, ColtJ82 said:

Wasn't there some drama leading up to Miami trading him?

Showing up to practices drunk picking fights with teammates staying out late drinking on game nights his career was coming to a screeching halt before he came to Indy . 

[NewColtsFan]

29 minutes ago, csmopar said:

actually.... yes. it happens ALL the time.  

 

No, it doesn't.      And if you think it happens ALL the time, you're free to post a link showing that....

 

Athletes don't get elective surgery unless they pay for it.

 

Insurance doesn't pay for elective surgery.

 

If he's having a surgery he has doctors legally stating he needs the surgery.     That's necessary for insurance to pay.

 

Vonte Davis is NOT having elective surgery.     The Colts may disagree,  but Vonte has his own doctors saying he needs this....

 

[NewColtsFan]

31 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

Do you have a link about that settlement you speak of?

 

Nope.     Pure speculation on my part having covered the NFL as a member of the news media for 30 years.

 

But your position is the CBA states a team can't cut a player if he's hurt.    OK.

 

But the Colts HAVE cut him.     And neither Vonte or his agent are complaining.     They're not saying this is illegal.

 

So, if Vonte is having surgery,  and he says he is,   and no one is complaining about Vonte being cut,  then I'm concluding that a deal has been reached to allow the Colts to cut Vonte.    That's the only thing that adds up to me.

 

[Luck is Good]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Vonte has been hurt.   Ripped his groin in the third pre-season game and came back too soon.

 

So he's been playing hurt.    He hasn't  been mailing it in....

 

You again

[NewColtsFan]

25 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

You again

Yeah, me again...

 

Feel free to address the argument and avoid taking shots at the poster.

 

Or,  if you prefer,  put me on ignore if I bother you that much...   but I'll always be here....

 

Your choice....

 

[IinD]

I'm more upset about how his time here has ended.

 

Just a strange breakup honestly. He was our best player on D for a few years and his time ends in a bitter breakup of sorts.

[jvan1973]

40 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Nope.     Pure speculation on my part having covered the NFL as a member of the news media for 30 years.

 

But your position is the CBA states a team can't cut a player if he's hurt.    OK.

 

But the Colts HAVE cut him.     And neither Vonte or his agent are complaining.     They're not saying this is illegal.

 

So, if Vonte is having surgery,  and he says he is,   and no one is complaining about Vonte being cut,  then I'm concluding that a deal has been reached to allow the Colts to cut Vonte.    That's the only thing that adds up to me.

 

No settlement is necessary.    He is owed everything left on his contract and he is a free agent next year

[Malakai432]

Yeah I really don't see the problem here.  Davis is having season ending surgery, they appear set on not resigning him apparently.  He had a pretty solid career for the Colts but was just banged up and has played through injuries the last couple years.  Not a surprise at all, wish him luck going forward. 

 

 

 

[21isSuperman]

2 hours ago, John Waylon said:

 

Why now? Pagano is nothing if not fiercely loyal. 

 

With the the strange events of last weekend, and the chirping between both sides going on there's definitely more here than meets the eye. 

 

Even when it's clear that a player will be leaving the team in free agency, teams don't just cut the cord at random like this after said player gets demoted and indicates that he won't be back. Especially a player as good as he has been, and he can be. 

 

This is not just business as usual. Way too much extra curricular activity here for that. 

I haven't been following the team as closely this year as I usually do, but from what I understand, Davis needs season-ending surgery.  Plus, he's in the final year of his contract and shouldn't be re-signed.  He won't be playing for the Colts anymore, so why bother keeping him around?  Let him go so he can get his surgery and be in talks with other teams, then give your other guys reps in practice to develop.

[azcolt]

6 hours ago, csmopar said:

For those that want to know.... cutting Vontae just saved us 9 million bucks with a cap hit of 1.25 million. per OTC dot com

 

https://overthecap.com/calculator/indianapolis-colts

He didn’t save me a dime and for a billionaire owner, that’s pocket change. But if we can now sign a decent player it’s a steal. As for 2018, he was gone anyway.

[NewColtsFan]

14 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

No settlement is necessary.    He is owed everything left on his contract and he is a free agent next year

 

So who is paying for the surgery and rehab?    Can't imagine it's the player?

 

That would seem to be a violation of the CBA....

 

 

[richard pallo]

51 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

No, it doesn't.      And if you think it happens ALL the time, you're free to post a link showing that....

 

Athletes don't get elective surgery unless they pay for it.

 

Insurance doesn't pay for elective surgery.

 

If he's having a surgery he has doctors legally stating he needs the surgery.     That's necessary for insurance to pay.

 

Vonte Davis is NOT having elective surgery.     The Colts may disagree,  but Vonte has his own doctors saying he needs this....

 

If you get enough 2nd. opinions I don't think it's to hard to find a doctor that will go along with a form of groin surgery to make sure everything is A okay.  He wasn't going to play anyway so what's a nip and a tuck in November.  

[azcolt]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

So who is paying for the surgery and rehab?    Can't imagine it's the player?

 

That would seem to be a violation of the CBA....

 

 

Colts must be pretty sure he’s just a slacker like he was when they got him six years ago. He has really blown it pulling this crap in his FA year.

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, richard pallo said:

If you get enough 2nd. opinions I don't think it's to hard to find a doctor that will go along with a form of groin surgery to make sure everything is A okay.  He wasn't going to play anyway so what's a nip and a tuck in November.  

 

But Vonte is told he needs surgery.    He's having the surgery.

 

Perhaps the Colts doctors don't believe that.    

 

These kind of disputes are not uncommon in the NFL.   Team doctors say one thing, a doctor outside the organization says another.

 

So we have a dispute.

 

I'm not blaming either side.    Disputes happen.    I'm only saying that I don't think there's a reason for anyone to blame either side.     And I've seen both on the website.   Stuff happens.    We don't know everything.    Maybe we will learn more in the near future,   Or maybe not.

 

Either way I'm fine with the outcome because both sides appear to be OK with outcome.    If things change,  then maybe some opinions will change too...

 

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You can if you negotiate a settlement which the two sides appear to have done.

 

Vonte is having surgery,  so he is hurt.

 

The team has released him.

 

Neither Vonte or his agent are complaining that the team has done anything illegal.

 

So everyone appears satisfied.   

 

What you you choose to believe is out of my control...

 

Isn't the issue here simply the fact that VD needs season ending surgery, so since his season is done and so is his contract, it makes sense to release him.

 

BTW, that doesn't prohibit the Colts from pursuing him in free agency next spring, although the player always seems to feel slighted in cases where they were released.  I think teams generally would like to bring back players at the right price.  It doesn't seem like it will happen in this case of course.

[csmopar]

17 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

But Vonte is told he needs surgery.    He's having the surgery.

 

Perhaps the Colts doctors don't believe that.    

 

These kind of disputes are not uncommon in the NFL.   Team doctors say one thing, a doctor outside the organization says another.

 

So we have a dispute.

 

I'm not blaming either side.    Disputes happen.    I'm only saying that I don't think there's a reason for anyone to blame either side.     And I've seen both on the website.   Stuff happens.    We don't know everything.    Maybe we will learn more in the near future,   Or maybe not.

 

Either way I'm fine with the outcome because both sides appear to be OK with outcome.    If things change,  then maybe some opinions will change too...

 

Well just food for thought but Was just listening to ballards interview from yesterday. He was very adamant that Colts did not know Vontae was still having issues and the Ballard confirmed again today that Vontae hadn't been seeing the training staff for any groin issues recently and then said that they didn't learn about it until he tweeted it.  Even said the Colts had proof of that as well . Sure sounds like to me anyway, vontae was released for hiding the injury. 

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Well just food for thought but Was just listening to ballards interview from yesterday. He was very adamant that Colts did not know Vontae was still having issues and the Ballard confirmed again today that Vontae hadn't been seeing the training staff for any groin issues recently and then said that they didn't learn about it until he tweeted it.  Even said the Colts had proof of that as well . Sure sounds like to me anyway, vontae was released for hiding the injury. 

I always thought there was something wierd about VDs return.  When he hurt it (I think it was the last week of preseason), reports were that he was going to miss a long time.  Then he popped back in the lineup after about 4 weeks.  It was reported that it was a much more serious injury then what I would think a 4 week absence would warrant.

 

Anyway.  He needs the surgery and he's done for the season.  His contract is up so why not release him.  I don't think he was released for his attitude of hiding anything, since the initial reports I heard made it sound like the Colts thought the injury was pretty serious when it happened.

 

Maybe Ballard is lying that he didn't know VD still had a groin issue?

[RockThatBlue]

7 hours ago, csmopar said:

not to sound like a homer, but according to the team, which claims to have medical documentation proving Vontae was fully medically cleared, I think this was Vontae hiding the injury from the team.  Now that he's been released, this may have been exactly why.

Yup, think its clear that Vontae was lying about something. Colts have issues but I can't see this being their fault. Looks like Vontae was screwing them over.

[dw49]

32 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

But Vonte is told he needs surgery.    He's having the surgery.

 

Perhaps the Colts doctors don't believe that.    

 

These kind of disputes are not uncommon in the NFL.   Team doctors say one thing, a doctor outside the organization says another.

 

So we have a dispute.

 

I'm not blaming either side.    Disputes happen.    I'm only saying that I don't think there's a reason for anyone to blame either side.     And I've seen both on the website.   Stuff happens.    We don't know everything.    Maybe we will learn more in the near future,   Or maybe not.

 

Either way I'm fine with the outcome because both sides appear to be OK with outcome.    If things change,  then maybe some opinions will change too...

 

 

 

This all is really a non issue. The Colts were never going to make him an offer for another contract. He already collected his guaranteed money and his base salary passed the date that guaranteed that. Unless we need to argue who is responsible for the cost of surgery , this is over. Bottom line is Davis played really poorly in 2017. Who cares whether it was due to injury or diminishing skills ?  For the past 3 years he's always been nursing some sort of injury , so IMO it really doesn't matter.

 

He seemed to me to always be a little "disconnected " , so I would tend to believe what Ballard and or Pagano said to this issue . But it really doesn't amount to anything in the scope of things moving forward. 

[Mr.NotSoCreative]

7 hours ago, Everyone said:

That's one way to cure VD...

[pgt_rob]

This isn't the Colt's fault. Not for anything related to Vontae Davis. I'm reading an awful lot of comments from Colt's fans saying how screwed up the Colts front office is for releasing Vontae Davis. He clearly was not playing like himself so he was demoted which he did not like. No starter would. Then pulled the injury card to save face. But apparently with Ballard, he doesn't give a rats %&$ about stuff like that. I really like Vontae, but he didn't think this one through all the way. Good luck to him.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

Too bad they couldn't have pawned him off on the "supposedly interested teams"......

[deedub75]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

We are releasing him, in part,because he's having surgery.

 

Who has surgery when they're NOT injured?

 

So, in fact he WAS/IS injured...

 

 

After the initial injury he had the option of rest and letting it heal or having surgery. Being in a contract year, I can understand why why he opted to rest and let it heal. He probably wasn’t 100% when he did take the field and probation tweaked it. 

[dgambill]

Who cares. He wasn't going to play anymore this season and clearly Ballard wasn't bringing him back with replacements already in house. This is a non-story imo.

[PrincetonTiger]

22 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Who cares. He wasn't going to play anymore this season and clearly Ballard wasn't bringing him back with replacements already in house. This is a non-story imo.

I have a feeling a factor the messy divorce is The in house replacements 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Isn't the issue here simply the fact that VD needs season ending surgery, so since his season is done and so is his contract, it makes sense to release him.

 

BTW, that doesn't prohibit the Colts from pursuing him in free agency next spring, although the player always seems to feel slighted in cases where they were released.  I think teams generally would like to bring back players at the right price.  It doesn't seem like it will happen in this case of course.

 

To your first paragraph,  I completely agree.   I don't have a problem with either side.

 

And I'd agree that while the Colts COULD go after Vonte In the off-season, this divorce appears permanent.   I'm not anticipating a second marriage.    Each side appears to want to go their own way..   

And I'm ok with that....

 

[chrisfarley]

8 hours ago, icf said:

This team is a total mess.....

We started by replacing water pump, timing belt, etc,  then we started tearing off the heads and replacing everything just in case (valve springs, valves, retainers you name it), then we started full disassembly of the bottom half of the engine, replacing pistons, rod bearings.  Now we have engine torn apart again, looks like maybe a crankshaft replacement.  I'm hoping that Ballard doesn't feel like we need a new block in about a month.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

Well just food for thought but Was just listening to ballards interview from yesterday. He was very adamant that Colts did not know Vontae was still having issues and the Ballard confirmed again today that Vontae hadn't been seeing the training staff for any groin issues recently and then said that they didn't learn about it until he tweeted it.  Even said the Colts had proof of that as well . Sure sounds like to me anyway, vontae was released for hiding the injury. 

 

That could well be...   I would not be surprised if Vonte didn't communicate either properly or effectively.    

 

If was still in the team's long range plans, then the team would likely put up with that.    But since the team appears ready to go in another direction after this year and clearly doesn't want Vonte in the locker room,  then it's time to live on...

 

Wish everyone well and move on...

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, dw49 said:

 

 

This all is really a non issue. The Colts were never going to make him an offer for another contract. He already collected his guaranteed money and his base salary passed the date that guaranteed that. Unless we need to argue who is responsible for the cost of surgery , this is over. Bottom line is Davis played really poorly in 2017. Who cares whether it was due to injury or diminishing skills ?  For the past 3 years he's always been nursing some sort of injury , so IMO it really doesn't matter.

 

He seemed to me to always be a little "disconnected " , so I would tend to believe what Ballard and or Pagano said to this issue . But it really doesn't amount to anything in the scope of things moving forward. 

 

I don't disagree with anything you wrote...

 

I've only been attempting to explain to some posters that Vonte WAS indeed injured, and things spiraled from there...

 

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't disagree with anything you wrote...

 

I've only been attempting to explain to some posters that Vonte WAS indeed injured, and things spiraled from there...

 

I'm not denying that he's injured, I'm saying that from what Ballard has said for two days is that as far as the Colts knew, he was medically cleared and uninjured as of friday, which was the last time the team got an update from the docs. 

 

Now this falls on whoever the docs are too but only to a point. 

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I'm not denying that he's injured, I'm saying that from what Ballard has said for two days is that as far as the Colts knew, he was medically cleared and uninjured as of friday, which was the last time the team got an update from the docs. 

 

Now this falls on whoever the docs are too but only to a point. 

 

My comment was not about anyone specifically...   but intended for a number of people...    

 

For some there is a need to find fault in every situation....

 

Some here blamed Vonte..   in other threads I saw people blame Pagano,  or the organization which I took to mean Ballard.

 

I just don't see a bad guy here...   each side got a little and gave a little.    Each side can move on to a better future...

 

I really wasn't trying to single you out in any of these scenarios.    I was only trying to explain what likely happened for both sides..

 

[csmopar]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

My comment was not about anyone specifically...   but intended for a number of people...    

 

For some there is a need to find fault in every situation....

 

Some here blamed Vonte..   in other threads I saw people blame Pagano,  or the organization which I took to mean Ballard.

 

I just don't see a bad guy here...   each side got a little and gave a little.    Each side can move on to a better future...

 

I really wasn't trying to single you out in any of these scenarios.    I was only trying to explain what likely happened for both sides..

 

Oh I'm not saying you singled me out. Don't feel like you did. I'm simply stating that I do find Ballard credible here. The reason being, as someone trained to pick up on verbal clues, I noticed something both times when Ballard was asked that question. His bass lowered each time. This indicates that not only is he angry about the question/topic, but that he is being deeply sincere.  If Ballard was just stating the company line and  or lying, his dictation would have remained flat or go to a slightly higher pitch. I wish I could have him on camera to read his facial and other body language as that increases the accuracy, but I do feel Ballard is telling the truth. I think Vontae caught him off guard with the tweets. 

 

 

But thats all water done passed under under the bridge. Onto the next crisis 

[Luck is Good]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Yeah, me again...

 

Feel free to address the argument and avoid taking shots at the poster.

 

Or,  if you prefer,  put me on ignore if I bother you that much...   but I'll always be here....

 

Your choice....

 

For one, don’t even bring up taking shots at a poster. I didn’t do such a thing. And two, I never said you bother me either. I don’t know how you come to those conclusions. But that’s your choice...

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Oh I'm not saying you singled me out. Don't feel like you did. I'm simply stating that I do find Ballard credible here. The reason being, as someone trained to pick up on verbal clues, I noticed something both times when Ballard was asked that question. His bass lowered each time. This indicates that not only is he angry about the question/topic, but that he is being deeply sincere.  If Ballard was just stating the company line and  or lying, his dictation would have remained flat or go to a slightly higher pitch. I wish I could have him on camera to read his facial and other body language as that increases the accuracy, but I do feel Ballard is telling the truth. I think Vontae caught him off guard with the tweets. 

 

 

But thats all water done passed under under the bridge. Onto the next crisis 

 

Thanks...   glad we're good...

 

Honestly,  I think everyone involved has been pretty upfront.

 

I suspect Vonte was hurt but didn't say enough because he felt internal pressure to get healthy and play again quickly.. When he returned too soon he played poorly.   Not getting the right feedback from Vonte about his health,  I suspect the team got frustrated and started the process of ending the relationship.

 

This is not that uncommon with teams and aging veterans...   Sucks for everyone...

 

The key is not to have the divorce get too messy...    hopefully this divorce remains somewhat amicable and each side can move on...

 

[PrincetonTiger]

13 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Oh I'm not saying you singled me out. Don't feel like you did. I'm simply stating that I do find Ballard credible here. The reason being, as someone trained to pick up on verbal clues, I noticed something both times when Ballard was asked that question. His bass lowered each time. This indicates that not only is he angry about the question/topic, but that he is being deeply sincere.  If Ballard was just stating the company line and  or lying, his dictation would have remained flat or go to a slightly higher pitch. I wish I could have him on camera to read his facial and other body language as that increases the accuracy, but I do feel Ballard is telling the truth. I think Vontae caught him off guard with the tweets. 

 

 

But thats all water done passed under under the bridge. Onto the next crisis 

They are only crisis if “We” make them ones

[DougDew]

18 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Oh I'm not saying you singled me out. Don't feel like you did. I'm simply stating that I do find Ballard credible here. The reason being, as someone trained to pick up on verbal clues, I noticed something both times when Ballard was asked that question. His bass lowered each time. This indicates that not only is he angry about the question/topic, but that he is being deeply sincere.  If Ballard was just stating the company line and  or lying, his dictation would have remained flat or go to a slightly higher pitch. I wish I could have him on camera to read his facial and other body language as that increases the accuracy, but I do feel Ballard is telling the truth. I think Vontae caught him off guard with the tweets. 

 

 

But thats all water done passed under under the bridge. Onto the next crisis 

I think the tweets and the fact that Ballard has already decided to move on from VD plays into his statements.  I find his statements less than credible because this entire forum knows VD was struggling with a groin even though he was playing.  For Ballard to say that he thought VD was healthy because that's what VD told him is pretty much a lie.  

 

VD told him he was healthy for probably contract reasons.  Ballard just used VDs statements as an excuse to say his play has deteriorated not due to injury.  I'm sure Ballard has always strongly suspected VD isn't 100% even though VD was telling him he was.