Colts Media: Pagano Left Door Open (Speculation)

[DaColts85]

Just now, Dingus McGirt said:

Let's hope this discussion is moot.   LOL

Yes, 100% agree!

[will426]

There would be no point is sending a draft pick to any team for a back up qb if we lose luck for 6 games and mix the playoffs better just take that good draft pick and call it done 

[Matabix]

Johnny Football makes sense as back up. He's everything Tolz isn't. Athletic and determined. But he has to learn and than maybe we get trade bait.

[superrep1967]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

I thought Tolzein threw the ball well last game.  What the locker room wants might not be for smart reasons.

He's only got the ball passed the fifty once. 

[BullsColtsFan1]

40 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

The bolded....on what merit??  

He has more upside than Tolzein.  I understand that Tolzein(or the qb) isn't the only problem the team has but if Luck's going to be out the Colts need a QB that's not afraid to throw more than 3 yards down the field and can be mobile as well.  Morris is pretty athletic and can run too, I'd rather him be starting than Tolzein.  I am not sure how long Tolzein has been in the league, but he's never won an NFL start, I understand Morris hasn't either but I'd rather see him out there.  It really can't hurt.  It's going to be difficult to win with either guy starting but I think Morris has a better shot. On what merit do you think Tolzein has a 50/50 shot of winning week 1?

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

Guys. You all know I'll be straight up. Tozein or however you spell his last name is an absolute joke and he has no business in the NFL. He should be backing up some other bum in Canada or the Arena league. Morris is a lot more talented and it makes no sense that he wouldn't be our backup QB....IF we don't sign a FA or, and I'm just throwing this out there. Trade a 4th or 5th for somebody like a Jacoby Brissett. But with what we have. Stephen Morris is the only logical choice at backup QB. He can actually make some plays, he's athletic, and can scramble and run the ball himself a handful of times per game.

IMO trading any draft pick at this time would be a mistake. Bringing in another QB at this time would be a waist of time. Bringing in another QB would only give him 1 pre season week and 1 week to learn the playbook. Chances are any QB brought in hasn't taken anything close to starter snaps with another team. I just don't think trading any draft picks for just a band aid is worth it.

We are just going to have to rough it out till Luck gets back.

[Coffeedrinker]

Does anyone know what Pagano said that makes the media draw a consensus?  Because haven't we learned over the past year that not only can a "media consensus" be wrong but so far off the mark they get exposed for the jokes they are?

 

Not saying they are wrong, I'd just like to see what Coach said and draw my own conclusions.

[jameszeigler834]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Morris should start and play on opening day if Luck cant go. So a lot of people have really been bashing our play in pre-season so far and when some say it's only pre-season/relax, it gets laughed at. If we beat Pitt, I don't want those same people bashing the team saying it's only pre-season then. To me pre-season is meaningless but I think you see my point of this Post. If Chuck beats Pitt then that gives him a win over Pitt to the people that bash the team over pre-season play.

People wont care cause its meaningless I would rather beat them when it counts.

[bleevit]

IMO Morris shows an ability that Tolzien does not. When the play breaks down in any way, Morris seems to be able to make something happen. This is a talent some QBs have and others like Tolzien seem to flounder. I think to win a game in the NFL the ability to improvise is crucial and has been one of the primary factors in Andrew Luck's success. It may just be the ability to get to a recognize 4th and 5th options on a play.

[krunk]

Have a feeling Scott will play a little better this weekend since there's been a bit of game planning and I'm sure they'll open up the offense a little bit more than they have been doing.   We'll see.

[il vecchio]

Play Tolzien the 1rst and 4th quarters.  Play Morris the 2nd and 3rd quarters.  Play the other starters 2 to 3 quarters.  Walker should sit this game out.

[Stephen]

Tolzien may better if he stretched the field more. Those 4 yard passes wont cut it because the defense will sit on it.

[NannyMcafee]

3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Morris should start and play on opening day if Luck cant go. So a lot of people have really been bashing our play in pre-season so far and when some say it's only pre-season/relax, it gets laughed at. If we beat Pitt, I don't want those same people bashing the team saying it's only pre-season then. To me pre-season is meaningless but I think you see my point of this Post. If Chuck beats Pitt then that gives him a win over Pitt to the people that bash the team over pre-season play.

 

For those who will unrealistically say it's all good now, I agree.

 

for me it would be exciting to see some decen competitive football in the preseason, and while encouraging it is still preseason and it would just be another game of many encouraging games we have seen in the Andrew Luck era. 

 

What is real, and what isn't, is lost on me man. 

[TDewar1987]

Pagano be like : Scottie played well guys. Scotty played well. 

 

Also Pagano: 

 

[WoolMagnet]

4 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

Guys. You all know I'll be straight up. Tozein or however you spell his last name is an absolute joke and he has no business in the NFL. He should be backing up some other bum in Canada or the Arena league. Morris is a lot more talented and it makes no sense that he wouldn't be our backup QB....IF we don't sign a FA or, and I'm just throwing this out there. Trade a 4th or 5th for somebody like a Jacoby Brissett. But with what we have. Stephen Morris is the only logical choice at backup QB. He can actually make some plays, he's athletic, and can scramble and run the ball himself a handful of times per game.

Thats harsh i think.  Is he a starter? It doesnt look it, but as a backup i think he has a place in the league.

people think good QBs grow on trees i think.  Look k around the league, there arent 32 goodcQBs in the whole league.  So, of course the talent level will drop significantly for 99% of backups.  Remember Painter and Sorgi?  Theres ALOT more to a backup than on the field talent.  Do i think he's starter material? Of course not.  But to say he doesnt belong in the league is either an emotional thing, or ignorance of the overall talent level of QBs in the league once you get past the best 15 or 20 starting QBs. (Maybe less)

[WoolMagnet]

30 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

For those who will unrealistically say it's all good now, I agree.

 

for me it would be exciting to see some decen competitive football in the preseason, and while encouraging it is still preseason and it would just be another game of many encouraging games we have seen in the Andrew Luck era. 

 

What is real, and what isn't, is lost on me man. 

I havent seen competitive football from the Colts in preseason for the last 20 years.  

[Devildog]

2 hours ago, Matabix said:

Johnny Football makes sense as back up. He's everything Tolz isn't. Athletic and determined. But he has to learn and than maybe we get trade bait.

 

You're kidding, right?

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, jameszeigler834 said:

People wont care cause its meaningless I would rather beat them when it counts.

I would too, I was being so sarcastic in this Post because people overreact to losses in Pre-Season.

[ColtsBlitz]

4 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

This continues to actually being a NON-STORY.

Tolzien OR Morris = Losses

With Morris, we have a better chance. Tolzien has regressed since the Steelers game last year sadly. 

[GoColts8818]

I will believe it when I see it but I will be happy if it does happen.

 

honestly it probably depends on how Tolizen plays.  If he does well I doubt we see Morris with the ones if plays like he has been I bet we do see Morris with the ones.

[RockThatBlue]

3 hours ago, Matabix said:

Johnny Football makes sense as back up. 

No he don't.

[COLTS449]

1 hour ago, WoolMagnet said:

Thats harsh i think.  Is he a starter? It doesnt look it, but as a backup i think he has a place in the league.

people think good QBs grow on trees i think.  Look k around the league, there arent 32 goodcQBs in the whole league.  So, of course the talent level will drop significantly for 99% of backups.  Remember Painter and Sorgi?  Theres ALOT more to a backup than on the field talent.  Do i think he's starter material? Of course not.  But to say he doesnt belong in the league is either an emotional thing, or ignorance of the overall talent level of QBs in the league once you get past the best 15 or 20 starting QBs. (Maybe less)

 

Tolzein is one of the top 5ish worst QB's in the NFL. There's plenty of other options. Including veterans. Kaep for a couple mill would be perfect. He could actually come in, play the last preseason game, learn the offense the best he could and kinda do what he can do against LA wk1. Keep the offense simple for him. Simple routes, let him scramble, etc. He could win a game or 2 if Luck misses the first week or 2. But IDK. I like what I'm seeing from Morris, I'd just like to see us sign Kaep to shove it in the leagues face lol.

[COLTS449]

6 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

No he don't.

 

Yeah. LOL. Maybe if he could actually play as in play well and not suspended  

[COLTS449]

Luck. If he misses any time, it wont be but maybe 1.....MAYBE 2 games. He'll prolly be back week 1 honestly. But if Morris looks good, I'd give Luck another week as we can beat LA Rams without 12 if we run the ball well and play good D. You know.. Unless Goff has that breakout season which I don't see coming. They don't have a great OL, so Simon, Sheard, and Basham needs to be in Goff's face all game long. I would blitz more often, and pull some trickery on both sides of the ball. But yeah... Our secondary will have to play well cause they have some big time threats in Watkins, Austin, and Woods, and I think Pharoh Cooper, and Cooper Kupp will be really good number 2-3 type WR's when said and done. We'll have to stop the very overrated Gurley who even though overrated could easily run for 200 yards against us lol. We need Hooker roaming the middle and taking advantage of Goff's mistakes, and we'll need Wilson to keep his head above water if he's covering Austin. He had a BEAUTIFUL pas defensed last game. I mean beautiful. You guys know the play I'm talking about. If he sticks to his man, and makes plays like that he's gonna have a beastly rookie year.

[WoolMagnet]

4 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

 

Tolzein is one of the top 5ish worst QB's in the NFL. There's plenty of other options. Including veterans. Kaep for a couple mill would be perfect. He could actually come in, play the last preseason game, learn the offense the best he could and kinda do what he can do against LA wk1. Keep the offense simple for him. Simple routes, let him scramble, etc. He could win a game or 2 if Luck misses the first week or 2. But IDK. I like what I'm seeing from Morris, I'd just like to see us sign Kaep to shove it in the leagues face lol.

I'm not arguing that he has played poorly. I'm saying there arent really much better options.  Kap is not worth the trouble, imo.  This team DOES NOT need a circus environment.  The media is just looking for reasons to pile on us.  Whether they are targeting pagano or irsay, we just dont need that.  

Provided andrew misses a couple at most, i'd gonwith tolzien or morris.  Theyve been here longest and know offence better than walker who hasnt overwelmed me.

hopefully we'll see tolzien and morris with the ones this week and make a decision. Any other "in-house" combo is stupid.

i think we're better off at this late stage letting morris or tolzien "manage" the offence till andrew ready. ( im assuming andrew is back week 1-3). If andrew is out half the year, i dont think it really matters s.

[RomanianColtsFan]

I'm convinced Morris will play with the starter even though he may not start the game. I like looking at the practice pics and it appears that he practiced with the 1st team offense this week.

[DaColts85]

14 hours ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

He has more upside than Tolzein.  I understand that Tolzein(or the qb) isn't the only problem the team has but if Luck's going to be out the Colts need a QB that's not afraid to throw more than 3 yards down the field and can be mobile as well.  Morris is pretty athletic and can run too, I'd rather him be starting than Tolzein.  I am not sure how long Tolzein has been in the league, but he's never won an NFL start, I understand Morris hasn't either but I'd rather see him out there.  It really can't hurt.  It's going to be difficult to win with either guy starting but I think Morris has a better shot. On what merit do you think Tolzein has a 50/50 shot of winning week 1?

First, I agree and want to see Morris play as well....this week in preseason that is.  Does Morris give us a better shot.... so far in a preseason game against the 3rd strings yes you are correct.  So after he gets some hopeful snaps with the 1's Saturday, we will see exactly what he can be.  I hope it is good and that the backup spot becomes solidified, I truly do.  But what merit do I have for Tolzein having a 50/50 shot.... he has played in NFL games and beyond the popular belief he has not played terrible.  Watch the tape of the game last year he played in.  Did he play increidble, no, but he played pretty damn well for a backup who probably took little to no snaps all year.

[BullsColtsFan1]

1 hour ago, DaColts85 said:

First, I agree and want to see Morris play as well....this week in preseason that is.  Does Morris give us a better shot.... so far in a preseason game against the 3rd strings yes you are correct.  So after he gets some hopeful snaps with the 1's Saturday, we will see exactly what he can be.  I hope it is good and that the backup spot becomes solidified, I truly do.  But what merit do I have for Tolzein having a 50/50 shot.... he has played in NFL games and beyond the popular belief he has not played terrible.  Watch the tape of the game last year he played in.  Did he play increidble, no, but he played pretty damn well for a backup who probably took little to no snaps all year.

I will say some of the receivers did let Tolzien down in the Steelers game but he's been around the NFL for 6 years now and has never won an NFL start.  I understand he knows the offense, I understand he's a vet but I'd rather roll the dice with Morris.  I agree with you as far as letting Morris play with the 1's on Saturday.  I am just crossing my fingers that Luck is back week 1 but I am sure that's a stretch.  

[DaColts85]

3 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

I will say some of the receivers did let Tolzien down in the Steelers game but he's been around the NFL for 6 years now and has never won an NFL start.  I understand he knows the offense, I understand he's a vet but I'd rather roll the dice with Morris.  I agree with you as far as letting Morris play with the 1's on Saturday.  I am just crossing my fingers that Luck is back week 1 but I am sure that's a stretch.  

He knows the offense but Morris better know it as well being here for his second year now...lol!  My thing is you have a coach who is not in roll the dice mode.  He is going to try and play the conservative guy and hope for everyone else to show up and play.  This is only my opinion obviously but if Morris gets reps Saturday and impresses, well then Pagano would have a pickle on his hands if he still goes with Tolzein.

[TheMarine]

Just think, if we had Grigson still we would have traded next years 1 for Blain Gabbertt by now 

[BullsColtsFan1]

47 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

He knows the offense but Morris better know it as well being here for his second year now...lol!  My thing is you have a coach who is not in roll the dice mode.  He is going to try and play the conservative guy and hope for everyone else to show up and play.  This is only my opinion obviously but if Morris gets reps Saturday and impresses, well then Pagano would have a pickle on his hands if he still goes with Tolzein.

I agree about Chuck but when your star is down, I think you need to take some chances lol.  That's just my opinion though.  I'll be watching and rooting September 10th regardless. 

[DaColts85]

8 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

I agree about Chuck but when your star is down, I think you need to take some chances lol.  That's just my opinion though.  I'll be watching and rooting September 10th regardless. 

I agree sir!  Heavy doses of running mixed with more running would be my hopes on Sept. 10th. 

[BullsColtsFan1]

32 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

I agree sir!  Heavy doses of running mixed with more running would be my hopes on Sept. 10th. 

Agreed and hopefully the defense can hold their own.  I don't think Goff is that great but they do have play makers and they beat us with Kellen Clemens last time in Indy lol. Whooped us actually!

[DaColts85]

Just now, BullsColtsFan1 said:

Agreed and hopefully the defense can hold their own.  I don't think Goff is that great but they do have play makers and they beat us with Kellen Clemens last time in Indy lol. Whooped us actually!

I am very hopeful for our D this year.  They have looked good so far in their limited snaps.  I am not to worried about Goff, but we are known to let guys look great against us.  I want our D to once and for-all stop the dang run.  Gurley should stay under 50 or 60 yards on say 25 attempts...that would be nice. 

[Defjamz26]

Who cares. Tolzien or Morris, the Colts aren't winning a damn thing with either of them.

 

 

*

[Valpo2004]

21 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

Compared to back-ups he is mediocre.  Nothing crazy special...but this is among back-ups who you hope do not have to play.  He is someone who will put up stats that are nothing special but he allows the offense to run and he will provide short passes with an occasional deep ball.  We can make this work if the wrost happens for a week or two.

 

This being said they should still allow for Morris to provide competition and play with the 1's to see what he does.

 

Tolzien is bad even for a backup.  

 

Most backups (as in QB's who are #2 on the depth chart) have positive TD to INT ratios.  Tolzien doesn't have that.  His is very negative.  

 

Also look at any ranking list of backup QB's and Tolzien is near the bottom in nearly every one.  

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2017/06/08/power-ranking-the-nfls-backup-qbs-moore-garoppolo-lead-but-kaepernick-could-be-there-too/?utm_term=.b390b40f97b3  -- 24  Best ranking 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/05/15/ranking-nfl-backup-quarterbacks  -- 29

 

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/08/ranking-nfl-backup-quarterbacks -- 27

 

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/nfl-backup-quarterback-situations-worst-ranking-seahawks-colts-steelers-081816  - Colts ranked as the 2nd worst back up situation in the league.

[DaColts85]

4 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Tolzien is bad even for a backup.  

 

Most backups (as in QB's who are #2 on the depth chart) have positive TD to INT ratios.  Tolzien doesn't have that.  His is very negative.  

I do not disagree at all.  I would love to have Garoppolo or Matt Moore but some teams have guys as a backup that they want to become their future.  We have always been different as in Manning and now Luck.  You have a guy who gets all the snaps and when healthy is hopefully always going to be a top 5 year in and year out.  So backup has never been any priority for us.  Curtis Painter, Jim Sorgi, and now Tolzein.  That being said we are currently in the situation we are in and Tolzein, according to coaches, is our best option.  

 

You can say he is terrible all you want but fact is...he is on our roster and looking like the starter and #2 on the depth chart.  Can Morris still hopefully show some promise Saturday....HOPEFULLY!  But I have not seen it yet against any comparable competition.  Stats against the 3rd string and PS players does not tell me anything.  So let's hope they allow him to play with the 1's and actually get some competition against Tolzein....Since that was what they claimed right?

[Valpo2004]

3 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

I do not disagree at all.  I would love to have Garoppolo or Matt Moore but some teams have guys as a backup that they want to become their future.  We have always been different as in Manning and now Luck.  You have a guy who gets all the snaps and when healthy is hopefully always going to be a top 5 year in and year out.  So backup has never been any priority for us.  Curtis Painter, Jim Sorgi, and now Tolzein.  That being said we are currently in the situation we are in and Tolzein, according to coaches, is our best option.  

 

You can say he is terrible all you want but fact is...he is on our roster and looking like the starter and #2 on the depth chart.  Can Morris still hopefully show some promise Saturday....HOPEFULLY!  But I have not seen it yet against any comparable competition.  Stats against the 3rd string and PS players does not tell me anything.  So let's hope they allow him to play with the 1's and actually get some competition against Tolzein....Since that was what they claimed right?

 

I agree I'd like to see him against the 1's.  But this is again the fault of the coaching staff.

 

Morris did well in pre-season last year.  But for some reason to start the season they put him behind both Tolzien and Phillip Walker.  And they kept him there even after he did better then everyone else in the first pre-season game.  Now we are in pre-season game 3 which is the last game to have a realistic hope of going against 1's since most team's sit their 1's for the last pre-season game.  

 

Morris has only been able to play in the pre-season.  He's had no shots during the regular season.  But he's done nothing in the pre-season to make anyone think he can't be a capable backup in the NFL.  But Tolzien has done plenty of things to make one thing that he's not a capable backup.  

[DaColts85]

Just now, Valpo2004 said:

 

I agree I'd like to see him against the 1's.  But this is again the fault of the coaching staff.

 

Morris did well in pre-season last year.  But for some reason to start the season they put him behind both Tolzien and Phillip Walker.  And they kept him there even after he did better then everyone else in the first pre-season game.  Now we are in pre-season game 3 which is the last game to have a realistic hope of going against 1's since most team's sit their 1's for the last pre-season game.  

 

Morris has only been able to play in the pre-season.  He's had no shots during the regular season.  But he's done nothing in the pre-season to make anyone think he can't be a capable backup in the NFL.  But Tolzien has done plenty of things to make one thing that he's not a capable backup.  

I completely agree, and would definitely say this is the fault of the coaching staff.  In that being said, not providing adequate competition when they claimed no spot was safe is what drives me crazy.  If Morris does not do well against the 1's or maybe behind scenes he does not pick-up things well playbook wise or whatever reason they had to put Walker in front of him, has yet to be brought out.  I will only be hopeful and optimistic for Morris just as I will be for Tolzein.  

[BullsColtsFan1]

1 hour ago, DaColts85 said:

I am very hopeful for our D this year.  They have looked good so far in their limited snaps.  I am not to worried about Goff, but we are known to let guys look great against us.  I want our D to once and for-all stop the dang run.  Gurley should stay under 50 or 60 yards on say 25 attempts...that would be nice. 

I totally agree!  I think they'll be better against the run but the pass makes me nervous.  Vontae is the only good corner we have.  I hope Quincy can turn into an awesome #2 corner.  Hopefully they can get the job done as a collective group.