Colts select Malik Hooker [Merge]

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

and he played throught those injuries, and still excelled.  His recovery from the procedures is going very well, on track.  No worries about it form me right now.

yeah not really worried either.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

yeah not really worried either.

Learning more about him, I just like him better and better tbh.

[aaron11]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

  He is elite at making interceptions when he doesn't have to cover anybody. 

thats how zone coverage works, i dont think the colts often put the FS in man coverage

 

 

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Learning more about him, I just like him better and better tbh.

same, i went to bed last night not sure how i felt on it, but i really think we got a steal

[Colts_Fan12]

14 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

So, being the third leading tackler on the team that lost the BCS championship to Alabama was not good? And he was even projected to go in round 1 by some evaluators-

 

http://bit.ly/2qeDDcA

Yeah cause tackles are the most important stat he is a safety and he was the worst in coverage out of all of them last year 

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Yeah cause tackles are the most important stat he is a safety and he was the worst in coverage out of all of them last year

 

He wasn't ready for the NFL yet, and Pagano said so after the draft. However, Injuries forced him into the fire.  If he doesn't develop, that's on Pagano and the DB coach(es), not Green.

[DougDew]

10 minutes ago, csmopar said:

from where.... you've yet to provided a single source for "what you read".  Others have that have proven you wrong.  Video proves you wrong. 

Read the past 18 pages, including copied text and links.

 

Nearly everything supporting Hooker talks about interceptions and ball tracking when he has the luxury of sitting back and scanning what's in front of him. Nothing really talks about his performance when he is given a specific coverage assignment. 

 

Maybe he has that, but nothing I've read indicates he has much experience in displaying his abilities in those situation...in the one season he has played.

 

If our CBs are good enough to let him sit back and pick his spots, that would be wonderful.

[waka waka]

37 minutes ago, DougDew said:

WTH?  Most of what you just copied actually supports my point.  

 

They say the same thing, which is what everybody says.  Is a gifted athlete with one year experience at the position, who's elite skill is tracking the ball in the air and making plays on it.

 

They say that over and over and over.

 

 So what ELSE does he do well?

 

Heck, Darius Butler tracks the ball well from the FS position.

 

Let me stop you for a moment. Butlers keys were he could flip his hips with the best of them and had great feet. He never had the range Hooker has. DO me a favor tell me who were the corners Ed Reed had while in Baltimore. Yes its nice to have good or even great corners but if you have a safety with range he will make it easier for them.

[csmopar]

Just now, waka waka said:

Let me stop you for a moment. Butlers keys were he could flip his hips with the best of them and had great feet. He never had the range Hooker has. DO me a favor tell me who were the corners Ed Reed had while in Baltimore. Yes its nice to have good or even great corners but if you have a safety with range he will make it easier for them.

i think its past time to bring this out.  Despite proven evidence to the contrary, he still thinks Hooker can't cover...... 

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, waka waka said:

Let me stop you for a moment. Butlers keys were he could flip his hips with the best of them and had great feet. He never had the range Hooker has. DO me a favor tell me who were the corners Ed Reed had while in Baltimore. Yes its nice to have good or even great corners but if you have a safety with range he will make it easier for them.

I'm not saying that Hooker isn't better than Butler.  I'm saying that if the only skill we are drafting a FS for is his ability to track the ball when he plays centerfield, then we don't really need to spend pick 15 on him.  We can draft a 5 foot 9 180 pound player in round 4 to do that.

 

The other skills are not talked about.  They say he has the athleticism for them, but the skills aren't displayed.  That he's a borderline project for everything other than playing centerfield, who has had some injuries from the one season he's played.  That's what I read.

[csmopar]

Just now, DougDew said:

I'm not saying that Hooker isn't better than Butler.  I'm saying that if the only skill we are drafting a FS for is his ability to track the ball when he plays centerfield, then we don't really need to spend pick 15 on him.  We can draft a 5 foot 9 180 pound player in round 4 to do that.

 

The other skills are not talked about.  They say he has the athleticism for them, but the skills aren't displayed.  That he's a borderline project for everything other than playing centerfield, who has had some injuries from the one season he's played.  That's what I read.

READ WHERE??

[DougDew]

10 minutes ago, csmopar said:

i think its past time to bring this out.  Despite proven evidence to the contrary, he still thinks Hooker can't cover...... 

When did I say he can't cover.  What I said was that nobody else has supported his coverage skills by supplying stats when given a specific coverage assignment, like passes defended, completions against him when in coverage, etc. ...provided he was even asked to do that in his one season and there are even stats to collect.

[DougDew]

9 minutes ago, csmopar said:

READ WHERE??

The past 18 pages of this thread...including links.  Do you want me to spoon-feed you the text?  It would be massive.

 

It would be easier if you supplied text for how many passes he has defended when in coverage or supporting assigned double coverage....or how many times he was even asked to do that at OSU with Conley and Lattimore playing in front of him.

[csmopar]

Just now, DougDew said:

The past 18 pages of this thread...including links.  Do you want me to spoon-feed you the text?  It would be massive.

 

It would be easier if you supplied text for how many passes he has defended when in coverage or supporting assigned double coverage....or how many times he was even asked to do that at OSU with Conley and Lattimore playing in front of him.

I've yet to see a single link or quote from you..... not one.  yet dozens that prove you wrong have been posted....

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, thatonefan said:

Moving on the ball is 80% of a cover 3 free safety's job. OLB and SS cover the run mostly. I see where you're coming from, but technique can be taught. His natural ability cannot be taught.

I don't disagree at all.  

 

The bolded is very close to repeating the comments about TJ Green last year, excepting tracking ability.  

 

In many ways, the comments supporting Hooker at pick 15 also support picking Green later in round 2 last year.

 

Maybe that's why the ESPN crew didn't like the Colts pick...and why Hooker "fell" to 15.  

[rockywoj]

From NFL.com article declaring the winners and losers of round one, under the winners category ...

 

"The Colts' defensive overhaul: New Indianapolis GM Chris Ballard has a vision, and he's executing it beautifully. Thursday's selection of Ohio State safety Malik Hooker was a fantastic value at No. 15 overall and immediately improves a woeful secondary. Since the start of March, Ballard has added defensive tackle Johnathan Hankins, linebackers Jabaal Sheard, John Simon and Sean Spenceand defensive end Margus Hunt. No team has done a better job improving its toughness and defensive depth this offseason."

[ColtsLegacy]

44 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Don't think those players are actually a great need.  We've lacked a good safety since Bob Sanders. We already have good players and depth in the positions those rookies would fill. 

 

Hooker can come on and start immediately for us.  I don't think the others would. 

 

You don't think Clayton Geathers is a "good" safety. You don't think Mike Adams was a "good" safety? You don't think Antoine Bethea was a "good" safety?

[#12.]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

...and there's a rumor that we can get Purdue, Rutgers and Indiana on OUR schedule!!!!

Jacksonville, Tennessee and Houston... close enough.

[DougDew]

21 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I've yet to see a single link or quote from you..... not one.  yet dozens that prove you wrong have been posted....

I'm not asserting that Hooker can't do anything, so there is no reason for me to provide a link.

 

I'm pointing out that others are asserting that he is an elite player only by talking about the number of interceptions he has collected when allowed to move on the ball at will and not spending his time covering for a beaten CB. 

[ColtsLegacy]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I don't disagree at all.  

 

The bolded is very close to repeating the comments about TJ Green last year, excepting tracking ability.  

 

In many ways, the comments supporting Hooker at pick 15 also support picking Green later in round 2 last year.

 

Maybe that's why the ESPN crew didn't like the Colts pick...and why Hooker "fell" to 15.  

 

Except Green couldn't cover for % in college, whereas, Hooker was the best coverage safety/playmaker (by far) according to pretty much everyone. So, really, they're nothing alike.

[csmopar]

12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

When did I say he can't cover.  What I said was that nobody else has supported his coverage skills by supplying stats when given a specific coverage assignment, like passes defended, completions against him when in coverage, etc. ...provided he was even asked to do that in his one season and there are even stats to collect.

those have been mentioned.  but you're too dense to see it.  Here, lets break it down

 

Malik Hooker 2016 NCAA stats

43 solo tackles, 31 assisted, 74 total tackles, 5.5 sacks, 7 interceptions, 3 for TDs, 11 passes defended. 

 

here's another quote:

 

"Outstanding passer rating against

Despite his limited experience, quarterbacks didn't perform well when throwing in Hooker's direction. According to Pro Football Focus' draft guide, quarterbacks throwing at Hooker had a combined 39.5 passer rating." pff

 

"Outstanding in pass coverage

Despite his lack of  football experience, quarterbacks soon learned to avoid throwing Hooker's way.  The 1st year starter at safety ended the 2016 season ranked first in pass completion percentage allowed amongst all safeties and sixth amongts all DBs. Hooker led the league in pass defended (11) and interceptions(7) returning 3 INTs for TDs." walterfootball

 

happy now?

[Cynjin]

Just now, csmopar said:

 

 

happy now?

 

I highly doubt it.

[aaron11]

no one should be comparing him to green

 

hooker had more ints returned for TDs than green had passes defended

[DougDew]

10 minutes ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Except Green couldn't cover for % in college, whereas, Hooker was the best coverage safety/playmaker (by far) according to pretty much everyone. So, really, they're nothing alike.

He was a playmaker, that's for sure.  I don't know about coverage other than people saying he was good.

 

Usually this forum is chalk full of stats and not words.  I suspect there aren't many stats on Hookers pure "coverage" since he may not have been asked to do that and only really played one season, which is my whole point in this thread.

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

He was a playmaker, that's for sure.  I don't know about coverage other than people saying he was good.

 

Usually this forum is chalk full of stats and not words.  I suspect there aren't many stats on Hookers pure "coverage" since he may not have been asked to do that and only really played one season, which is my whole point in this thread.

there's plenty if you actually know how to read............

[DougDew]

10 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

no one should be comparing him to green

 

hooker had more ints returned for TDs than green had passes defended

Nobody is comparing them as players.  I am comparing the comments and the picks at their respective rounds.  

 

I see both as NFL projects, according to their weaknesses, talent, and playing experience.  The better one being drafted higher.  

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

thats how zone coverage works, i dont think the colts often put the FS in man coverage

 

 

True, but he can't pick his spots when our UDFA quality CBs can't cover past the 5 yard line.  He'll have to commit and help out early, and those ball hawking stats become irrelevant.

[AustexColt]

He was ranked #1 Safety by Walter Draft, although it was noted that he would miss 4-6 months due to his latest surgery. That says alot especially with only 1 year as a starter and being a basketball player through high school. What says more than anything is that OSU had a long list of DB's and he came out of nowhere to start and now be drafted in the first round. What it means: HE HAS HEART and HE IS A VERY CONFIDENT player. HE IS A UNIQUE PLAYER and if he remains healthy, we have an Ed Reed 2.0. This will give Ted Monachino tremendous strategic advantage in his blitz package.

 

The only downside is his surgery. The labrum and hernia surgery is not a minor surgery. 

 

 

[aaron11]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

No, but he can't pick his spots when our UDFA quality CBs can't cover past the 5 yard line.  He'll have to commit and help out.

yeah he will help the corners out, thats partly what makes this a great pick

 

he may not get the int if he has to run 25 yards across the field but an incompletion is still a win for the defense

 

its not like the ints are the only good thing he did.  he was great overall in coverage and was not a liability against the run, he just took some bad angles at times.

[Coltsman1788]

16 minutes ago, #12. said:

Jacksonville, Tennessee and Houston... close enough.

All of those teams are consistently adding  better talent to their rosters.  Disparaging these teams as competitors in this division is getting old now.

 

What can be said is that their quarterbacks are still relatively inexperienced and prone to making errant throws that the Colts defense with Hooker are more likely to turn into more interceptions. 

[BleedBlu8792]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Nobody is comparing them as players.  I am comparing the comments and the picks at their respective rounds.  

 

I see both as NFL projects, according to their weaknesses, talent, and playing experience.  The better one being drafted higher.  

 

Reading all the comments you've posted, it's CLEAR, you haven't watched a lick of film on him. He was ranked as being one of the best defensively with QBR against him. The video in this thread, early on, breaks down his range and ability in coverage and in centerfield. By midseason, teams literally avoided throwing anywhere in the middle of the field - his area. Butler just lost his spot as FS to Hooker and for good reason.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

After sleeping on it, I love this pick.  Hooker has uncoachable talent and instincts.  His flaws can be coached up.  Very high ceiling.  I think Ballard sees this guy having a 10-year Pro-Bowl career at FS, much like Ed Reed.  Some people are saying the Bama prospects that slid all had injury problems and might last 5 years in the league.  That seems to be the narrative with Bama right now, it is wearing out its athletes with its style of play before these guys even get to the NFL.  It might be a blessing in disguise that Hooker only started one year in the Big Ten, another year or two of that and he might have risked his NFL longevity like the Bama guys.

 

Hooker can be the center fielder we need, and now Green or Geathers can drop down and be the box-safety.  Hopefully a stacked box will stop the run so Hooker doesn't have to tackle anybody in the open field.  That would be my main concern right now, stretch and sweep runs, or screen-passes to WRs on the edge; Hooker needs to work on his angles and tackling.  If he improves that, he could be like Earl Thomas.

 

I think this will help the front 7, too, crowding the box with an extra safety.  It will force the offense into passing downfield, right into the hands of Hooker.  Of course, we still need a CB2 to make this work, hopefully we can pick that up in round 2.

 

He sounds like a "horseshoe" guy, too.  Spent time at a childrens' hospital on draft day.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

13 minutes ago, DougDew said:

True, but he can't pick his spots when our UDFA quality CBs can't cover past the 5 yard line.  He'll have to commit and help out early, and those ball hawking stats become irrelevant.

 

... but he is not going to commit before the ball leaves the QB anyway, so you could argue that he is not going to "cover" anybody as in following them man to man close. It will be more about contesting for the ball once he get to the spot where the WR/TE is supposed to grab the ball. As I see it. Thus his ball hawking stat are still relevant, IMO.

[2006Coltsbestever]

35 minutes ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

You don't think Clayton Geathers is a "good" safety. You don't think Mike Adams was a "good" safety? You don't think Antoine Bethea was a "good" safety?

I will fix it for him, we haven't had a GREAT Safety since Bob Sanders. That is why I always use Good, Very Good, and Great in different Posts. Hooker has the potential to be Great.

[Fisher8820]

I am really excited about this pick. While watching the draft last night and seeing all of the offensive players going early I was excited that the Colts would possibly be getting a defensive playmaker. I was hoping for someone to get after the qb (like Reddick), but I was beyond happy to get a "ball hawk" like Hooker. 

[DougDew]

14 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

yeah he will help the corners out, thats partly what makes this a great pick

 

he may not get the int if he has to run 25 yards across the field but an incompletion is still a win for the defense

 

its not like the ints are the only good thing he did.  he was great overall in coverage and was not a liability against the run, he just took some bad angles at times.

If the job of the FS is to play the ball 80% of the time, I'd think it would make more sense to select quality pass rushers and CBs high than it is to take a FS high, when he is basically only asked to be a one-trick pony.

 

We are going to be in serious trouble if we don't find a replacement for Vontae.  A CB who can cover, track the ball, and support the run really well.  And in a defense where we want the FS to play centerfield 80% of the time and not support the run much or get into short pattern coverage a lot, two CBs like Vontae would be better.

 

I'm thinking this was a bad pick...not a bad player...but a bad pick strategically in the long term.  We'll see how the rest of the draft goes.

 

 

[Legend of Luck]

 

This video is incredible and makes me SO excited about our defense this year.

 

My favorite nugget from this video: 

Hooker was on the Ohio State scout team in 2015, and had FORTY interceptions in practice. It may just be practice...but...FORTY is INSANE.

 

This guy is gonna be a stud.

[2006Coltsbestever]

30 minutes ago, DougDew said:

He was a playmaker, that's for sure.  I don't know about coverage other than people saying he was good.

 

Usually this forum is chalk full of stats and not words.  I suspect there aren't many stats on Hookers pure "coverage" since he may not have been asked to do that and only really played one season, which is my whole point in this thread.

You are trying to hard to not like this pick LOL. He was projected to go in the Top 10 by most NFL experts and has Great potential written all over him. What is not to like about this pick? A lot of NFL people are comparing him to Ed Reed. We can still Draft a potentially Great CB in Round 2 or 3 and be ok. We still have Vontae Davis as well last I looked who may not be Great anymore but he is still Very Good and a legit #1 CB. I wanted Reddick but once he was gone, I was happy with this pick. I was shocked Hooker was there at #15 actually. I think he and Geathers will mesh well together and I am still holding out hope Green will turn out at least in GOOD category.

[masnerj]

We run a good amount of Cover-1 and to a lesser extent Cover-3. You better believe that "1" is gonna be Hooker in the back responsible for pretty much the entire field behind him. That is where he will absolutely thrive. 

 

But that being said, if we go all Man-coverage and put him in 1-on-1 against someone, he has the height, weight, speed, and ball-skills to win. Yes he had limited experience with that in college but that happened for a REASON. The reason being he was already pretty good at it that QBs stopped throwing at him in risk of interceptions. 

 

Hooker is the perfect example of a prospect that has elite traits at things that you simply CANNOT teach: Ball-skills, range, instincts. He has par to subpar traits at things that you CAN teach and that improve with time and coaching: tackling technique, angles for tackling, etc. What Pagano said says it all: The guy is willing to tackle but isn't a great tackler. VERY different than a guy that isn't willing to tackle AND can't tackle. The former is much easier to teach to tackle well. 

 

He will fine, and I'm gonna on the record and say that he will win DROY solely based on the number of turnovers he forces. When GMs draft players based on potential and ceilings, you have to do it with a prospect like Hooker where you have a great chance to teach all the stuff that he needs to improve on but you can maximize his future potential based on the stuff that is very very rare. 

[csmopar]

36 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

I highly doubt it.

yeah i know.