Colts select Malik Hooker [Merge]

[waka waka]

55 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

After sleeping on it, like the pick better then first reaction. Wish Reddick was at 15.

i liked Hassan but i think if you have a decent to good front like the Cards have he fits better. I don't think he has as big of an impact that Hooker would have right away. If he was still on the board i truly believe Hooker still gets picked.

[Blueblood23]

28 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2016/11/15/robots-invade-colts-practice/93890894/

 

Indy spent real $$$ just for teaching tackling mid way last year on robot tackling dummies.

Maybe it's just me, but that's not live tackling as in a game situation. The simulation of this is a tool not true tackling like they practiced in the past.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, MightyLucks said:

This was a greeaaaat pick. This kid is still learning the game. He is  going to improve his tackling and strength. If I remember correctly he only played one season as a starter and made that much noise. That's incredible. 

 

With experience and proper coaching, this kid will be GREAT. 

The only pick everyone would of been happy with is Myles Garrett, and even then, there would of been 1 or 2 dummies that said we didn't need help on the defensive line.

[DougDew]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

We actually have Vontae, Butler in the nickel, and we need someone opposite Vontae, which we should get today.

True.  But Butler is a better FS than nickel.  Both are old.

 

I'm all for getting a CB today.  But then we're missing the pass rusher.  I think Marlon Humphrey was the pick at 15, and Ozzie Newsome picked him at 16 so Humphrey must fit the defense well

[oldunclemark]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Do you question everything that isn't 100%? You'll find out soon enough. 

Jared.....we will find out and that's what worries me..

.a player linked to the phrases  "coming off of hernia and shoulder surgery'..

..and 'awful tackling angles'

 

...is someone who has question marks if we're being honest

[Lawrence Owen]

Just now, Blueblood23 said:

Maybe it's just me, but that's not live tackling as in a game situation. The simulation of this is a tool not true tackling like they practiced in the past.

NO, but 90% of tackling is technique, and these dummies give coaches a way to teach this to players who need to learn it.

[Myles]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Just food for thought.  Conley.  Lattimore.  Two CBs that were top 15 talent.

 

How many times does Hooker just sit back and wait for the ball knowing he has two elite college CBs playing in the backfield.

 

 

Good point.   He was fortunate to play with the advantage of having Conley and Lattimore back there.  

The upside is that he has experience playing with NFL caliber talent. 

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

We actually have Vontae, Butler in the nickel, and we need someone opposite Vontae, which we should get today.

I still think we get 2 CBs this draft.  At this point, any/all would be an upgrade.  Combined with a better front 7, I think that's gonna help our secondary.  

[Yoshinator]

Just now, oldunclemark said:

Jared.....we will find out and that's what worries me..

.a player linked to the phrases  "coming off of hernia and shoulder surgery'..

..and 'awful tackling angles'

 

...is someone who has question marks if we're being honest

It's common knowledge that he won't be ready til training camp. Ballard addressed that and he will be fine. He's not like Lattimore or Allen with worse injuries. He just needs to recover a bit. Those are minor injuries really. The tackling is off, but everyone has negatives. He's only 21, and that can be coached. His upside is far greater than the negative downside.

[oldunclemark]

11 minutes ago, ColtsBlitz said:

His angles are God awful, but coachable. If he perfects that, he becomes a serious downhill tackling threat  

Hope we give him time to learn before we throw him out there..

...He does not sound like a guy who can start this season...

[Yoshinator]

Just now, csmopar said:

I still think we get 2 CBs this draft.  At this point, any/all would be an upgrade.  Combined with a better front 7, I think that's gonna help our secondary.  

I predicted in the mock for the colts two days ago, we'd take CBs in the 3rd and 4th round. So I agree with you 100%. They may go a bit quicker than planned though.

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, twfish said:

Its incredibly funny too me, I'd say about 90% of the people I've read so far on here who have been very active in the draft section of the forum love the pick. The ones who I haven't seen on that side of the forum at all dislike the pick.  I'll take the more educated opinion and the guys who actually watched tape on him before the draft lol. I'll admit I didn't watch very much tape on him at all since I was pretty sure he was going top 5 or 10

Also tons of them are brand new members that only made an account to + about our draft they won't say a damn thing all year long after the draft ends just more lame trolls 

[oldunclemark]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

It's common knowledge that he won't be ready til training camp. Ballard addressed that and he will be fine. He's not like Lattimore or Allen with worse injuries. He just needs to recover a bit. Those are minor injuries really. The tackling is off, but everyone has negatives. He's only 21, and that can be coached. His upside is far greater than the negative downside.

'wont be ready till training camp'

and....'tackling is off'

.......what you describe here are question marks..

 

...its not being negative for you to say that...just being honest....

I don't know his true upside but he's ours now and we're stuck with him

 

....so I hope he's a great player

 

 

[Colts_Fan12]

16 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

 

Green was never drafted to be a Free Safety.  I got the feeling Pagano eventually wants to train him to be the 'nickel  CB; play the slot guy which is often an athletic Tight End these days.  A developed Green minimizes the mismatch a slow LB or small/short CB presents for a big/strong/fast TE in the slot.

But for now, Green is still learning to be a safety, period, and with Geathers, Hooker leap frogs ahead of Green. Green is still a project with high ceiling.

 

Our fans seem to want every draft pick to be a stud immediately on signing their contract. Those guys that are (and they are few and far between) typically near the end of their learning curve and don't improve much...you get what you see year in and year out until injuries set in.

 

Most college players are not really prepared for the NFL, as the college game is so different than the Pros.

He wasn't good in college either so I won't be shocked if he is out of the league guy was the worst rated safety in coverage last draft 

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

It's common knowledge that he won't be ready til training camp. Ballard addressed that and he will be fine. He's not like Lattimore or Allen with worse injuries. He just needs to recover a bit. Those are minor injuries really. The tackling is off, but everyone has negatives. He's only 21, and that can be coached. His upside is far greater than the negative downside.

The problem is those are the exact words we used about TJ Green last year.  Hooker has great ball skills and Green doesn't, but other than that, there isn't a huge difference, especially considering that Hooker had two top 15 CBs playing with him.

 

I'm not saying Hooker is bad, but pick 15 is pretty high for the guy considering that many people are looking to his "upside" as validation for the pick.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, oldunclemark said:

'wont be ready till training camp'

and....'tackling is off'

.......what you describe here are question marks..

 

...its not being negative for you to say that...just being honest....

I don't know his true upside but he's ours now and we're stuck with him

 

....so I hope he's a great player

 

 

Well... I don't know what perfect player you expected at 15. We could of done a lot worse. I'm guessing you are down on the pick as well because of the position. Everything will be okay. Ballard did the right thing here, and usually I'm the negative one and you are positive. This time, we are switching roles.

[James Ducheteau]

14 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Just food for thought.  Conley.  Lattimore.  Two CBs that were top 15 talent.

 

How many times does Hooker just sit back and wait for the ball knowing he has two elite college CBs playing in the backfield.

 

OTOH, we have a year older Vontae and nobody.

 

Hope he doesn't have to perform like a traditional NFL FS does, because those skills apparently aren't talked about much, so I assume they are nothing special.

 

Maybe we'll get our CBs and he'll grow into the position, and that's the plan.  But if anybody thinks he's going to make plays with the Colts the same way he did at OSU, that those highlights and stats will automatically convert to play for the Colts, its not going to happen unless we get some good CBs at some point the next few seasons.

It could be said the other way too, that those CB's were good because they knew they had Hooker over the top...basically the same argument people make about Sherman and Thomas.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, DougDew said:

The problem is those are the exact words we used about TJ Green last year.  Hooker has great ball skills and Green doesn't, but other than that, there isn't a huge difference, especially considering that Hooker had two top 15 CBs playing with him.

 

I'm not saying Hooker is bad, but pick 15 is pretty high for the guy considering that many people are looking to his "upside" as validation for the pick.

Let me present a different view. Maybe Hooker made Lattimore and Conley better as well the way he played? It's not always a one-way street. The only thing against Hooker is a small sample size in that regard.

[Colts_Fan12]

15 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Just food for thought.  Conley.  Lattimore.  Two CBs that were top 15 talent.

 

How many times does Hooker just sit back and wait for the ball knowing he has two elite college CBs playing in the backfield.

 

OTOH, we have a year older Vontae and nobody.

 

Hope he doesn't have to perform like a traditional NFL FS does, because those skills apparently aren't talked about much, so I assume they are nothing special.

 

Maybe we'll get our CBs and he'll grow into the position, and that's the plan.  But if anybody thinks he's going to make plays with the Colts the same way he did at OSU, that those highlights and stats will automatically convert to play for the Colts, its not going to happen unless we get some good CBs at some point the next few seasons.

Stop freaking out about CB this draft is full of them all at 15 were reaches except Conley and he wasn't getting picked by us it's not gonna just be "an old Vontae and nobody"

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, James Ducheteau said:

It could be said the other way too, that those CB's were good because they knew they had Hooker over the top...basically the same argument people make about Sherman and Thomas.

You beat me to it by 2 seconds lol.

[oldunclemark]

1 hour ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

As they said on NFL network.  "Last year the Colts had 8 interceptions.  Malik Hooker had 7."

...and there's a rumor that we can get Purdue, Rutgers and Indiana on OUR schedule!!!!

[DougDew]

11 minutes ago, James Ducheteau said:

It could be said the other way too, that those CB's were good because they knew they had Hooker over the top...basically the same argument people make about Sherman and Thomas.

Agreed.  But the only thing elite I have read about Hooker is his ability to move on the ball.

 

What are his actual coverage skills?  The ability to run and turn with a receiver?  I haven't read anybody discussing that  for Hooker yet that was a big weakness and criticism of Green almost immediately.

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Stop freaking out about CB this draft is full of them all at 15 were reaches except Conley and he wasn't getting picked by us it's not gonna just be "an old Vontae and nobody"

Could've been old Vontae and Humphrey.  That would have made Butler, or even Green, look better.

[oldunclemark]

5 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Well... I don't know what perfect player you expected at 15. We could of done a lot worse. I'm guessing you are down on the pick as well because of the position. Everything will be okay. Ballard did the right thing here, and usually I'm the negative one and you are positive. This time, we are switching roles.

I only know the questions marks that you detail here...

..I am not down on the pick at all....I don't have someone else I would have picked.

He's a major college player...who was picked All-America by some

 

I am just, as you are, being honest about what we got.

Its okay to be skeptical....even if you love the pick.......that's what we do here

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, DougDew said:

Could've been old Vontae and Humphrey.  That would have made Butler, or even Green, look better.

Humphrey is not that great he's not a good man corner I sure didn't want him especially with how man good corners are still on the board 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Could've been old Vontae and Humphrey.  That would have made Butler, or even Green, look better.

We don't need a CB yet, still lots of good ones on the board as ColtsFan12 said.

[Fisticuffs111]

So happy. Ballard was just talking about how important it is to get turnovers. His injury seems less worrisome on reading about it more as well.

His tackling issues seem to be exaggerated too. Not that it's a strength but he can bring a guy down.

This should be good for Luck too, having to go against that kind of playmaking ability in practice.

[ColtsBlueFL]

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well...    on ESPN and NFL Network they noted you can't practice tackling very much anymore in the NFL.    You don't want to risk injury.     So, there's very little of that.     You learn on the job and take the bad with the good.

 

Not understanding angles and being late to the ball is part of being a poor tackler.     Semantics or not.

 

I'm not bad mouthing the pick.    I love the Hooker pick.    I think I had him 4th on my board.    Clearly BPA.

 

I'm just saying he's not clean and there are issues why someone so highly thought of falls this far...

 

 

That might be ending soon, too.

http://bit.ly/2oSZyoq

 

8 hours ago, BOTT said:

Team that wins the turnover battle generally wins the game.

 

And Hooker not only will give Luck more possessions, he'll often flip the field doing so.  that is a true playmaker.

[Coltsman1788]

9 hours ago, Johnny U. said:

Why would you not want a player who can play several positions? And play them well.

You preferred Jabril Peppers...at 15?  Peppers played Safety and CB and LB on defense and had all of 1 interception last season.  Meanwhile Malik nabbed 7 in his only year of collegiate action.  Colts picked the better safety and ball hawk.

 

 

[Defjamz26]

54 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The difference is night and day. Most of the people that like Malik Hooker (including me), study the draft and learn about the players. The majority who don't on here just didn't want another safety and probably don't know anything about Hooker because he wasn't supposed to fall to us in the first place.

Night and day is putting It lightly. Everything that Malik has, Green doesn't and probably never will. Hooker has elite instincts, an elite ability to take the ball away and score, football IQ, and elite coverage skills.

 

Green is a guy who is a better athlete than a football player. The guy who puts the card in for the Colts probably pulled a hammy sprinting to put that card in. I am glad Ballard made a no brainer pick.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Defjamz26 said:

Night and day is putting It lightly. Everything that Malik has, Green doesn't and probably never will. Hooker has elite instincts, an elite ability to take the ball away and score, football IQ, and elite coverage skills.

 

Green is a guy who is a better athlete than a football player. The guy who puts the card in for the Colts probably pulled a hammy sprinting to put that card in. I am glad Ballard made a no brainer pick.

Exactly, this is why I always go for the better football player. In rare cases like this, you can get the best of both worlds though.

[ColtsBlitz]

16 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Hope we give him time to learn before we throw him out there..

...He does not sound like a guy who can start this season...

On the contrary, he can definitely start. His ability to move sideline to sideline is better than any I've ever seen. He almost looks slow when he runs, but the ground he actually covers is insane. He isn't constantly taking bad angles, but it's there so it needs to be polished. He will be great, I'm very excited to see him in preseason. 

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

We don't need a CB yet, still lots of good ones on the board as ColtsFan12 said.

But we need a #1CB.  Not a bunch of #2s and nickels.

 

If all Hooker is good at is tracking the ball, then those FSs can be had in later rounds too.

[twfish]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Could've been old Vontae and Humphrey.  That would have made Butler, or even Green, look better.

Humphrey? Are you kidding me the only reason he looked good was because ofca stacked d-line and dominate pass rushers. He woulda been hands down far worse

[ColtsBlitz]

3 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

So happy. Ballard was just talking about how important it is to get turnovers and there you go.

This should be good for Luck too, having to go against that kind of playmaking ability in practice.

And good for Hooker, having to defend passes thrown by Andrew Luck

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, twfish said:

Humphrey? Are you kidding me the only reason he looked good was because ofca stacked d-line and dominate pass rushers. He woulda been hands down far worse

Ozzie Newsome picked him at 16 and Baltimore runs the same D.

[thatonefan]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Agreed.  But the only thing elite I have read about Hooker is his ability to move on the ball.

 

What are his actual coverage skills?  The ability to run and turn with a receiver?  I haven't read anybody discussing that  for Hooker yet that was a big weakness and criticism of Green almost immediately.

Moving on the ball is 80% of a cover 3 free safety's job. OLB and SS cover the run mostly. I see where you're coming from, but technique can be taught. His natural ability cannot be taught.

[oldunclemark]

4 minutes ago, ColtsBlitz said:

On the contrary, he can definitely start. His ability to move sideline to sideline is better than any I've ever seen. He almost looks slow when he runs, but the ground he actually covers is insane. He isn't constantly taking bad angles, but it's there so it needs to be polished. He will be great, I'm very excited to see him in preseason. 

Is he healthy, CB?

[thatonefan]

5 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Night and day is putting It lightly. Everything that Malik has, Green doesn't and probably never will. Hooker has elite instincts, an elite ability to take the ball away and score, football IQ, and elite coverage skills.

 

Green is a guy who is a better athlete than a football player. The guy who puts the card in for the Colts probably pulled a hammy sprinting to put that card in. I am glad Ballard made a no brainer pick.

7 INTs, 3 for TDs...absolutely what we need

[ColtsBlitz]

4 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Is he healthy, CB?

Ballard had our medical staff check him out. He took him so I assume it was all good news. Hookers surgery wasn't even that major, and he's supposed to be ready by training camp