I Hope Chuck Stays

[BOTT]

3 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Sorry, I'm not up on the rules of things we're allowed to credit Chuck.  Not his winning percentage, not going to the AFCCG, not winning 8 games without a healthy Luck, not winning 8 games with the worst defensive personnel in the league this season.  Not being saddled with a GM...

 

Can't credit him for any AFC South wins or for winning a game with two new QBs and a week of prep.  I'm sure there are others, I'll try to keep up in the future.  

 

Odd response 

[Coltfreak]

9 minutes ago, BOTT said:

 

Odd response 

You spelled dumb wrong 

[MacDee1975]

On 1/21/2017 at 6:03 PM, workinman said:

Well, if you go and look at Mike Tomlinson's record he also has a back to back 8-8 seasons and tomorrow his team is in the AFC championship(where we would like to be), IF chuck learns from his past mistakes and gets some better players we may have a future, if not it will be a

 rinse and repeat.

 

"Tomlinson" also won a Super Bowl, and appeared in another, prior to the to 8-8 seasons you speak of, so he has a track record of success and has earned the benefit of the doubt.

 

Pagano, on the other hand, has a track record of getting his brains beaten in when he reaches the playoffs, and any slack he earned with those 11 win seasons was used up in 2015.

[indyagent17]

The fake punt shall never be forgiven 

[southwest1]

5 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

The fake punt shall never be forgiven 

As far as mental lapses go, that blunder was certainly not our coaching staff's finest hour was it? Doh! 

 

To me, it's right up there with Mark Sanchez's butt fumble minus the comic relief. 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

The fake punt shall never be forgiven 

Not really sure why people keep blaming Chuck for this play? He didn't want the ball hiked. When do players hold accountability for their mistakes? That is like people blaming Pete Carroll for Russell Wilson's dumb blunder in the SB when Wilson was the one that threw the pass. Wilson also had complete control on calling an Audible or running himself. Chuck didn't hike the freakin Football. I guess with you, it's the Chuck hate show.

[southwest1]

38 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Not really sure why people keep blaming Chuck for this play? He didn't want the ball hiked. When do players hold accountability for their mistakes? That is like people blaming Pete Carroll for Russell Wilson's dumb blunder in the SB when Wilson was the one that threw the pass. Wilson also had complete control on calling an Audible or running himself. Chuck didn't hike the freakin Football. I guess with you, it's the Chuck hate show.

I don't know. Well coached teams familiar with the situation at hand won't make that mistake. Players can flinch early sure, but most HC's communicate to their special teams players, if the Pats don't bite on the fake...under no circumstances are you to snap the ball...Crystal clear? 

 

It's not the end of the world true, but as HOF TE Shannon Sharpe likes to say "you either coach or you allow it to happen" [chaos to occur on the field due to a lack of comprehension or concentration.]

[NewColtsFan]

On 1/21/2017 at 8:10 PM, bluephantom87 said:

 

Don't forget about Bruce's 9 wins that Chuck gets credit for either that adds to his winning %.

 

Chuck gets credit for them because you'll notice the next two years we went 11-5 without Arians.

 

Which tells me, and others,  that we would've gone 11-5 in 2012 if Pagano had not been sick and Arians would've been standing by his side.        There's no reason to think anything would'e been different.

 

Chuck went 11-5 back to back years with Pep as his OC and most people here like to think that Pep sucked.

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

On 1/21/2017 at 8:25 PM, dudeski said:

he can do nothing

 

i would have respect for him though if he quit.  actually no.  no i wouldn't

 

 

 

This might be the least surprising thing you've written here.      And that's saying something......

 

[CoachLite]

[indyagent17]

20 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Not really sure why people keep blaming Chuck for this play? He didn't want the ball hiked. When do players hold accountability for their mistakes? That is like people blaming Pete Carroll for Russell Wilson's dumb blunder in the SB when Wilson was the one that threw the pass. Wilson also had complete control on calling an Audible or running himself. Chuck didn't hike the freakin Football. I guess with you, it's the Chuck hate show.

 something to keep in mind about that.

 

Whalen snapped the ball because he got a signal to snap either correct or mistakenly.  He cannot see behind him so he has to depend on the person behind him to tell him to snap the ball or not. The only play to call there was a timeout so why did Pagano NOT call a timeout when he knew that play was not going to work and let it go on forever. That is Pagano's fault he designed the play it was run faultily (the whole line was offside) ( and what was the purpose of that play in how could it have possibly worked) so the responsibility falls completely and squarely on his shoulders. Not to mention the most obvious it was a stupid, stupid thing to do on our side of the field being down by a single score to the best team in the league. It drives me nuts when people blame someone else other than Pagano for this

[GoColts8818]

21 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Not really sure why people keep blaming Chuck for this play? He didn't want the ball hiked. When do players hold accountability for their mistakes? That is like people blaming Pete Carroll for Russell Wilson's dumb blunder in the SB when Wilson was the one that threw the pass. Wilson also had complete control on calling an Audible or running himself. Chuck didn't hike the freakin Football. I guess with you, it's the Chuck hate show.

I agree players should be held accountable for their mistakes.  With that said to say Chuck is blameless here is false.  The Colts admitted they practiced the play with a different player than Whalen, he only stepped in because that player was hurt and unable to go.  Calling that play in the first place when you know one of the players it's centered around hasn't practiced it is a mistake because you have to know the chance for a mistake is very high on a play that had very little chance of working in the first place. 

[GoColts8818]

On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 6:40 PM, Smonroe said:

I think he's a good coach and I know the players love playing for him.

 

I'm in the minority, but I think a lot of the people who want him gone just want change, and change isn't always good.  I know you'll talk about his inability to get the team off to a fast start.  But no one talks about his ability to get the team back into games.

 

We all seem to agree that the roster is probably less than mediocre.  Someone said it's worse than Clevelands.  So it must say something about the coaching to get that much out of that little.  And before you say "It's all Luck!", look at the Saints who also have a franchise QB and a highly respected coach.  Tomlin had back to back 8-8 seasons.  Rodgers has been to one SB.  

 

My final point in this rant is to remember the Dungy era - I think he was a great coach, and we had some great teams.  But he only got us to the AFC championship twice in his seven years.  And those rosters are going to have a lot of god jackets in the years to come.

Dungy also never missed the playoffs as Colts coach.  Something Pagano has failed to do twice.  You gain some leeway when you never miss the playoffs as coach and also fail to win fewer than 12 games only once over your time as Head Coach.  If Chuck was winning 11 games a year and not missing the playoffs like he did his first three years here the past couple of years we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

 

Look I don't think Chuck is a bum like some do.  I think he's an average NFL coach.  He's not terrible but he's not anything special either.  The Colts could do worse than him but they could also do much better.  I also don't like the idea of making change to make a change especially if there isn't a guy out there that management doesn't view as a strong upgrade that they can get.  I think that's exactly what Irsay tried to do, land a guy he viewed as a strong upgrade and couldn't get it done so he's going to stick with Chuck rather than just changing to change.

[GoColts8818]

On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 7:25 PM, Colts6669 said:

Chuck never had a chance with Grigs doing the shopping.  Dorsett, really?  Remember Jon Gruden say that "the Colts could have got Dorsett on Monday". UDFA he should have been!

Grigson isn't the one who called an unneeded timeout on a game winning drive vs. the Lions that left time for the Lions to win the game.

Grigson isn't the one who said we will be a power running team until they run me out of here even though his team clearly isn't that.

Grigson isn't the one who said after barely beating the Jags at home that it proved they had the right staff in place.

Grigson isn't the one who puts the game plan in place week after week only to see the team get down double digits before they do anything. 

Grigson isn't the one who drew up the fourth down play against New England and then called it even though one of the key guys for the play was out and turned to a guy who had never run it before.

Grigson isn't the one kept calling plays out of an empty backfield in short yardage situations not even making defenses think about the run. 

 

Look don't get me wrong Grigson made enough mistakes of his own that he deserved to be fired but Chuck's failures haven't only been because Grigson didn't get him enough talent. 

[superrep1967]

On 1/24/2017 at 2:14 AM, southwest1 said:

As far as mental lapses go, that blunder was certainly not our coaching staff's finest hour was it? Doh! 

 

To me, it's right up there with Mark Sanchez's butt fumble minus the comic relief. 

 

 

 

Exactly

[superrep1967]

6 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Grigson isn't the one who called an unneeded timeout on a game winning drive vs. the Lions that left time for the Lions to win the game.

Grigson isn't the one who said we will be a power running team until they run me out of here even though his team clearly isn't that.

Grigson isn't the one who said after barely beating the Jags at home that it proved they had the right staff in place.

Grigson isn't the one who puts the game plan in place week after week only to see the team get down double digits before they do anything. 

Grigson isn't the one who drew up the fourth down play against New England and then called it even though one of the key guys for the play was out and turned to a guy who had never run it before.

Grigson isn't the one kept calling plays out of an empty backfield in short yardage situations not even making defenses think about the run. 

 

Look don't get me wrong Grigson made enough mistakes of his own that he deserved to be fired but Chuck's failures haven't only been because Grigson didn't get him enough talent. 

 

I could not agree more very well put I like it. Best I've read in a very long time good job. 

[CoachLite]

6 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I agree players should be held accountable for their mistakes.  With that said to say Chuck is blameless here is false.  The Colts admitted they practiced the play with a different player than Whalen, he only stepped in because that player was hurt and unable to go.  Calling that play in the first place when you know one of the players it's centered around hasn't practiced it is a mistake because you have to know the chance for a mistake is very high on a play that had very little chance of working in the first place. 

Absolutely right! File this under: Lack of preparation, a Pagano hallmark.

[Smonroe]

8 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Dungy also never missed the playoffs as Colts coach.  Something Pagano has failed to do twice.  You gain some leeway when you never miss the playoffs as coach and also fail to win fewer than 12 games only once over your time as Head Coach.  If Chuck was winning 11 games a year and not missing the playoffs like he did his first three years here the past couple of years we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

 

Look I don't think Chuck is a bum like some do.  I think he's an average NFL coach.  He's not terrible but he's not anything special either.  The Colts could do worse than him but they could also do much better.  I also don't like the idea of making change to make a change especially if there isn't a guy out there that management doesn't view as a strong upgrade that they can get.  I think that's exactly what Irsay tried to do, land a guy he viewed as a strong upgrade and couldn't get it done so he's going to stick with Chuck rather than just changing to change.

 

I always respect your posts because you support them with facts, not just emotional or ignorant responses.  I admit Chuck has made some bad calls (they may have come from the OC or DC, but ultimately it's on him). 

 

We probably disagree on his abilities as a HC.  If you ever played, you know the game comes down to matchups and how to take advantage of them.  Or in our case, how to compensate for our disadvantages.  You can judge a coach on how well he does that.  I don't think anyone would argue that Belichick may be the all time best at it. 

 

Personally, I think that's one of Chuck's strengths.  I know that's a divisive statement, but you only have to look at the guys brought in off the street who are starting on this team.  And how a lot of guys that leave are never heard from again.

 

Anyway, I'll stick to my opinion and respect yours. 

[I'm mad, bro]

I really hope we hire one of these big name, very good GMs and that GM seriously considers firing Chuck. I understand it would be hard to find much better, but if we can steal kyle shanahan from 9ers and sign a DC who's not just chucks buddy from Baltimore this teams attitude and execution will and needs to improve.

[OLD FAN MAN]

On 1/21/2017 at 8:05 PM, Smonroe said:

 

This is true, but Chuck has time on his side.  If they bring in an outsider there's not a lot of time to get a coach and be ready for the draft with him.  

 

I'm more for bringing in some talent.  There's money for some decent FAs, combine it with a good draft, and continued Oline improvement, the team could contend again.  

i concur

 

[Shive]

On 1/21/2017 at 8:00 PM, dudeski said:

pagano is probably the worst coach i have ever seen.  people like him because he had cancer and says stupid cliches

 

he is terrible for the colts 

 

On 1/21/2017 at 11:25 PM, dudeski said:

he can do nothing

 

i would have respect for him though if he quit.  actually no.  no i wouldn't

 

 

 

Hey, remember you're rant last week about class? Cool..

 

And no, class isn't something only expected of paid athletes. If you're going to preach class so adamently, you sure as hell need to practice it.

[Shive]

On 1/23/2017 at 6:49 PM, BOTT said:

 

Odd response 

 

On 1/23/2017 at 6:59 PM, Coltfreak said:

You spelled dumb wrong 

I thought it was pretty appropriate... Everyone wants to talk about how terrible of a coach he is and whenever someone brings up any if the amazing stats that most coaches DREAM of having, his accomplishments get dismissed.

 

The argument that I've seen quite a bit in this thread is that Dungy had the decade-long streak of playoff appearances and Pagano having 2 8-8 seasons means he's useless. The pro-Pagano folks mention playoffs his 1st 3 seasons, AFCCG the 3rd one, which Peyton and crew never did, and it's always the "well it was the AFC South..." nonsense. THE PEYTON AND DUNGY COLTS PLAYED IN THE SAME DIVISION AND IT WAS WAAYYYY WORSE BACK THEN.

[dudeski]

18 hours ago, Shive said:

 

 

Hey, remember you're rant last week about class? Cool..

 

And no, class isn't something only expected of paid athletes. If you're going to preach class so adamently, you sure as hell need to practice it.

no i don't

 

 

[dudeski]

18 hours ago, Shive said:

 

I thought it was pretty appropriate... Everyone wants to talk about how terrible of a coach he is and whenever someone brings up any if the amazing stats that most coaches DREAM of having, his accomplishments get dismissed.

 

The argument that I've seen quite a bit in this thread is that Dungy had the decade-long streak of playoff appearances and Pagano having 2 8-8 seasons means he's useless. The pro-Pagano folks mention playoffs his 1st 3 seasons, AFCCG the 3rd one, which Peyton and crew never did, and it's always the "well it was the AFC South..." nonsense. THE PEYTON AND DUNGY COLTS PLAYED IN THE SAME DIVISION AND IT WAS WAAYYYY WORSE BACK THEN.

all of this is wrong

 

[VocableLoki]

4 hours ago, dudeski said:

all of this is wrong

 

 

 

4 hours ago, dudeski said:

no i don't

 

 

 

Eloquent 

[Shive]

4 hours ago, dudeski said:

no i don't

 

 

 

4 hours ago, dudeski said:

all of this is wrong

 

Your insight is invaluable.

[I'm mad, bro]

This thread as become women bickering, we here to talk colts losers

[needanoline63]

Chris Ballard wants his own head coach. He wants Dave toub to be a head coach

[CanuckColt]

3 hours ago, needanoline63 said:

Chris Ballard wants his own head coach. He wants Dave toub to be a head coach

Ballard should be given the power to pick his own coach...he can't be worse than Chuck...Chuck is neither good nor terrible, just mediocre and does things that make you go HUH?

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 hours ago, needanoline63 said:

Chris Ballard wants his own head coach. He wants Dave toub to be a head coach

See I am not sure about Toub but one thing Ballard will do is build a Good or even maybe a Great Defense so if it's Toub, it's Toub . We have Andrew Luck so any Coach at worse can go 8-8 with him. We had one of the worst Defenses of all-time last season and still went 8-8.

[Lawrence Owen]

I agree with the minority on here.  Keep Chuck.

#1 Players like him.  they play HARD for him.  Even no talent players we've had on defense this year played thieir tails off for him, they just did not have the overall talent to make the impact plays that was needed on a constant basis.

#2  The defensive personel is not Pags fault, that was ALL on Grigs (and injuries).  He's gone, maybe Pags has 4-5 more defensive players this offseason from whomever takes his place for Pags to work with.  If Pags is a players coach, and he makes everyone play hard 60 minutes, then more talent = more success.  

#3  Alot of people will point out the flop snap that should not have happened vrs the Pats as a major focus that Pags is a bad coach..   People, even pro's makes mistakes from time to time, especially with confusion.  The 1st down pass on the fake punt this past year was one that was an awesome call, and worked perfectly.   His coaching decisions have gotten much better this past year.  He was probably told" show me improvement". He did, Grigs did not.

[chrisfarley]

11 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

I agree with the minority on here.  Keep Chuck.

#1 Players like him.  they play HARD for him.  Even no talent players we've had on defense this year played thieir tails off for him, they just did not have the overall talent to make the impact plays that was needed on a constant basis.

#2  The defensive personel is not Pags fault, that was ALL on Grigs (and injuries).  He's gone, maybe Pags has 4-5 more defensive players this offseason from whomever takes his place for Pags to work with.  If Pags is a players coach, and he makes everyone play hard 60 minutes, then more talent = more success.  

#3  Alot of people will point out the flop snap that should not have happened vrs the Pats as a major focus that Pags is a bad coach..   People, even pro's makes mistakes from time to time, especially with confusion.  The 1st down pass on the fake punt this past year was one that was an awesome call, and worked perfectly.   His coaching decisions have gotten much better this past year.  He was probably told" show me improvement". He did, Grigs did not.

He started the season on a bad note, so are you referring to improvement from game #2 onward? He admitted to mistakes and he'd like to have that game back. I believe he was referring to the time-out. The below article is the article just after the game...but later in the year he talked about the Detroit game, where he admitted some things and I applaud him for owning it, don't get me wrong.

 http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2016/09/11/doyel-passive-pagano-gives-game-away/90117512/

And then he had a pretty large set-back in the first Texans game for sure blowing the big lead on the road, The Jags game in London was ugly and they didn't look prepared but we can give him a mulligan on that one, Luck should have run for the first down at the end.

The 2nd Texans game was ultra-critical and a home game, I would put some of that on him as well.

He had good moments and bad moments no doubt, so I am not just going to slam him, that's not my intention at all.  Coaches don't enough credit for the time they put in and for when things are running smoothly,, but they are also paid top-dollar so they should suck it up and get things right most of the time.

I'm not going down the "slow-starts" road either,,,, but I don't think I would use the word "improvement" as far as comparing him to Grigs.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Jeff Saturday on ESPN said we need to stop with all these 5 and 7 step drops with Luck and start throwing shorter routes.. I feel like everyone knows his besides Chud

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, Majin Vegeta said:

Jeff Saturday on ESPN said we need to stop with all these 5 and 7 step drops with Luck and start throwing shorter routes.. I feel like everyone knows his besides Chud

I just watched that too agreed with everything Jeff said only problem is we still have the same coaching I don't think Ballard changes that. He compared us to KC but the have a great offensive minds in Andy Reid.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

I just watched that too agreed with everything Jeff said only problem is we still have the same coaching I don't think Ballard changes that. He compared us to KC but the have a great offensive minds in Andy Reid.

I don't think Ballard personally changes it either. But maybe him, pags and chud all sit down and watch film and talk about the season. Maybe they can all come to the conclusion that we're taking too many of those 5 and 7 step drops. And we need to get some shorter faster routes in the game plans. That's my hope. 

[stitches]

Seems like you are going to get your wish:

 

 

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, Majin Vegeta said:

I don't think Ballard personally changes it either. But maybe him, pags and chud all sit down and watch film and talk about the season. Maybe they can all come to the conclusion that we're taking too many of those 5 and 7 step drops. And we need to get some shorter faster routes in the game plans. That's my hope. 

This is why if we change coaches next year I'm really hoping for an offensive minded coach 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

This is why if we change coaches next year I'm really hoping for an offensive minded coach 

Harbaugh or McDaniels ;)

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Harbaugh or McDaniels ;)

I would absolutely love either one I also was high on Kyle Shanahan but he's going to the cruddy 49ers

[ManningGM]

You get your wish for one more season.

 

Congrats.