I Hope This Is Not True/ Irsay chooses grigson over gruden....(merge)

[coltsva]

1 minute ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Because then we would never have any new threads. Duh.

Good point. What the heck was I thinking?

[Yoshinator]

If true, and I believe it is because I know Schefter and trust him more than any other source, than Irsay is the problem. Not Grigson, not Pagano, but Irsay. Pagano and Grigson can be fired, bad hires happen, you move on. However, when an owner puts his friendship and ego in front of the best interest of the team, it's disgraceful. Not only did he do this, but he picked Grigson and Pagano over Gruden and Manning. The same Peyton Manning that turned a nothing football town of Indy into a respectable SB winning franchise that is now relevant. Also over Jon Gruden, someone that holds nothing but the highest regards for Andrew Luck and wants to work with him. Absolutely disgusting what Irsay did, and I hope the media tears his butt apart for this. This is borderline criminal in football terms. Take any coaching mistake you've seen over the last 20 years and magnify it by 100. This is going to destroy Andrew Luck and any chance we have of winning a SB.

[colts8718]

If this is true about Grigson then Irsay is really losing it 

[austriancolt]

It's never good when you let you personal feelings dictate your business! I don't know what Irsay sees in Grigson but this franchise is getting worse from year to year. 

[Yoshinator]

Just now, colts8718 said:

If this is true about Grigson then Irsay is really losing it 

Take a day off to go to the casino and won $200, come back in the morning and the forum is going crazy. Have to catch up on 500 posts, and I hear this criminal act. This is a once in a lifetime thing. You get Jon Gruden as coach, you start Peyton Manning as the GM, someone who loves the Colts, has a great mind for the game and talent, can analyze things to the fullest, and would put his heart and soul into the GM job as a true blue Colt. Irsay does this. This isn't missing a draft pick, this isn't losing a couple seasons, this isn't even about wasting Lucks prime, this is destroying the future and your fanbase. This is quite possibly the biggest disaster in Indy Colts history and something that people will never forgive for 20 years.

[austriancolt]

41 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Has anyone in here actually heard Jim Irsay come out and say he has interviewed Gruden or Peyton for anything? Has anyone in here heard Gruden or Peyton talk about being offered anything from Irsay? Everytime I read a tweet by the local or national media it always says per source this. Name your source or I am not buying it! Until I hear Irsay, Gruden, or Peyton actually speak on anything I am not buying anything else I read. That is my take on it.

 

Well, would you name your team source? No Journalist would name his source because that's the last time you will have one. And what do you expect from Irsay? Going on record that his personal feelings are more important than a clear and obvious business decison? 

 

[Indeee]

6 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

If true, and I believe it is because I know Schefter and trust him more than any other source, than Irsay is the problem. Not Grigson, not Pagano, but Irsay. Pagano and Grigson can be fired, bad hires happen, you move on. However, when an owner puts his friendship and ego in front of the best interest of the team, it's disgraceful. Not only did he do this, but he picked Grigson and Pagano over Gruden and Manning. The same Peyton Manning that turned a nothing football town of Indy into a respectable SB winning franchise that is now relevant. Also over Jon Gruden, someone that holds nothing but the highest regards for Andrew Luck and wants to work with him. Absolutely disgusting what Irsay did, and I hope the media tears his butt apart for this. This is borderline criminal in football terms. Take any coaching mistake you've seen over the last 20 years and magnify it by 100. This is going to destroy Andrew Luck and any chance we have of winning a SB.

If true, this is a business decision on both accounts. I believe Irsay really wants Grigson to succeed, so I'm sure he was hoping Gruden would work with him to show him and guide him based on how he would approach things and Gruden says no. Okay, screw Gruden. If i was an owner why would I EVER hand my entire football operation from a personnel standpoint over to a guy with a subpar coaching record, who, in all accounts may not ne here in a year or 2 from now. As far as manning, i think the simplist explanation here is that manning wanted too much $$$ from a percentage stake in the Colts. Irsay does have kids and it's theirs when he is gone. Plain and simple business decisions on both accounts.

[Gramz]

Word of the day yesterday was "Awkward".

 

today the word is  "Disappointment"   

 

What will tomorrow bring.....????

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Indeee said:

If true, this is a business decision on both accounts. I believe Irsay really wants Grigson to succeed, so I'm sure he was hoping Gruden would work with him to show him and guide him based on how he would approach things and Gruden says no. Okay, screw Gruden. If i was an owner why would I EVER hand my entire football operation from a personnel standpoint over to a guy with a subpar coaching record, who, in all accounts may not ne here in a year or 2 from now. As far as manning, i think the simplist explanation here is that manning wanted too much $$$ from a percentage stake in the Colts. Irsay does have kids and it's theirs when he is gone. Plain and simple business decisions on both accounts.

I know for a fact Manning wouldn't hurt Irsay like that. I would guess he wanted 10-15% ownership. If it turns out he wanted half or something, I will apologize later. Gruden absolutely deserves that, he's won a SB, he has to fix an entire team. He deserves to choose who he wants and what players he wants. Irsay took a plane out to Houston and basically begged him to be coach. Then he doesn't want to give something up. This was our out. Not only our chance to get rid of Pagano and Grigson, but to get a HOF coach, a GM that is the face of the franchise to learn an important job. Someone that's loyal and would never burn the club. Irsay let friendship with Grigson, greed and ego get in the way of his decision. This is by far the worst day in Colts history if true.

[coltsva]

9 minutes ago, Gramz said:

Word of the day yesterday was "Awkward".

 

today the word is  "Disappointment"   

 

What will tomorrow bring.....????

"Resignation"

 

[Gramz]

11 hours ago, Coltsfan1284 said:

 

I do believe this to be true..  

[Gramz]

sorry, double post.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

44 minutes ago, Gramz said:

Word of the day yesterday was "Awkward".

 

today the word is  "Disappointment"   

 

What will tomorrow bring.....????

 

Apathy

[UKColt13]

Irsay made a comment a while ago that Polian was a HOF GM and Grigson is ahead of where Polian at this point in his career. 

 

Ridiculous. I have a lot of faith in Irsay in general, but this was a terrible move if this is true.

[icf]

If, Grigson / Pagano return and the team continues to be inconsistent and mediocre -- fans need to revolt.  Make the attendance drop...make the TV ratings drop...Show him concrete proof that the fans are fed up and had enough.

 

If it is true that we could have had Gruden and Manning running this team instead of the current clowns....that speaks volumes to Irsay's ability to run this team and make it successful. 

 

Many years I planned my Saturdays around Notre Dame football and Sunday around the Colts --- this year, not so much....and while I still checked on the scores and such while I was out and about, I wasn't glued to a TV all weekend wasting my weekends watching mostly bad football. 

[deedub75]

19 minutes ago, icf said:

If, Grigson / Pagano return and the team continues to be inconsistent and mediocre -- fans need to revolt.  Make the attendance drop...make the TV ratings drop...Show him concrete proof that the fans are fed up and had enough.

 

If it is true that we could have had Gruden and Manning running this team instead of the current clowns....that speaks volumes to Irsay's ability to run this team and make it successful. 

 

Many years I planned my Saturdays around Notre Dame football and Sunday around the Colts --- this year, not so much....and while I still checked on the scores and such while I was out and about, I wasn't glued to a TV all weekend wasting my weekends watching mostly bad football. 

 

If I wasn't stuck in a contract with these club seats I wouldn't be renewing.  

[Coltfreak]

5 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

If I wasn't stuck in a contract with these club seats I wouldn't be renewing.  

Can't you sell them?

[VocableLoki]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

If true, and I believe it is because I know Schefter and trust him more than any other source, than Irsay is the problem. Not Grigson, not Pagano, but Irsay. Pagano and Grigson can be fired, bad hires happen, you move on. However, when an owner puts his friendship and ego in front of the best interest of the team, it's disgraceful. Not only did he do this, but he picked Grigson and Pagano over Gruden and Manning. The same Peyton Manning that turned a nothing football town of Indy into a respectable SB winning franchise that is now relevant. Also over Jon Gruden, someone that holds nothing but the highest regards for Andrew Luck and wants to work with him. Absolutely disgusting what Irsay did, and I hope the media tears his butt apart for this. This is borderline criminal in football terms. Take any coaching mistake you've seen over the last 20 years and magnify it by 100. This is going to destroy Andrew Luck and any chance we have of winning a SB.

Schefter has not tweeted anything that I've seen about Grigson being the issue. I've only seen that angle from dubious sources that are probably covering for the fact they tried to convince everyone Gruden  was coming. At the moment, all we know is that Gruden was approached and he turned it down and talks with Peyton are happening. Not disgusting, maybe just disappointing?

[GoColtsWin]

Truly, one of "The" saddest begginings to an offseason that we have had in a very long time. I'm a big fan of Jim Irsay, and have defended him on occasion. But now I just have a "Vote of no confidence" about his ability to run this organization. Makes me sad to have to say it though. 

[Yoshinator]

9 minutes ago, VocableLoki said:

Schefter has not tweeted anything that I've seen about Grigson being the issue. I've only seen that angle from dubious sources that are probably covering for the fact they tried to convince everyone Gruden  was coming. At the moment, all we know is that Gruden was approached and he turned it down and talks with Peyton are happening. Not disgusting, maybe just disappointing?

Grigson was only the issue because of his relationship with Irsay. Irsay is obviously not going to admit anything, he's going to keep it hush-hush from the fans, media, and especially Grigson and Pagano so there's no turmoil within the organization. Sometimes things backfire, but if it's because of something petty like personnel control with Gruden and ownership stake with Manning, then Irsay is in the wrong. From everything we've heard, he brought them in and had a chance to hire both if their demands were met. These guys aren't Joe Schmoes off the street. It's Gruden and Peyton Manning. This was our out, a chance to fire Grigson and Pagano and actually upgrade, and Irsay didn't do it. It's a spit in the face to Gruden, Manning, and every Colt fan that supports this team, especially when he went after Gruden and Manning in the first place.

[CoachLite]

1 hour ago, Gramz said:

Word of the day yesterday was "Awkward".

 

today the word is  "Disappointment"   

 

What will tomorrow bring.....????

 If stories are true, there is no tomorrow.

[1959Colts]

17 minutes ago, VocableLoki said:

Schefter has not tweeted anything that I've seen about Grigson being the issue. I've only seen that angle from dubious sources....

 

Just watched ESPN's NFL insiders Sunday edition. Schefter, and three other of their talking heads, talked about the issue at length.

[ponyboy]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I know for a fact Manning wouldn't hurt Irsay like that. I would guess he wanted 10-15% ownership. If it turns out he wanted half or something, I will apologize later. Gruden absolutely deserves that, he's won a SB, he has to fix an entire team. He deserves to choose who he wants and what players he wants. Irsay took a plane out to Houston and basically begged him to be coach. Then he doesn't want to give something up. This was our out. Not only our chance to get rid of Pagano and Grigson, but to get a HOF coach, a GM that is the face of the franchise to learn an important job. Someone that's loyal and would never burn the club. Irsay let friendship with Grigson, greed and ego get in the way of his decision. This is by far the worst day in Colts history if true.

 

10-15% of ~$1.5B would be $150M-$225M (and would grow as the value of the franchise grows).   I don't know how much NFL FO personnel make but that sounds unbelievable for a FO position.   Giving an ownership share would be a lifetime commitment to Manning in the FO -- so he'd have to be productive in the position for 20+ years to justify that kind of compensation.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

7 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Grigson was only the issue because of his relationship with Irsay. Irsay is obviously not going to admit anything, he's going to keep it hush-hush from the fans, media, and especially Grigson and Pagano so there's no turmoil within the organization. Sometimes things backfire, but if it's because of something petty like personnel control with Gruden and ownership stake with Manning, then Irsay is in the wrong. From everything we've heard, he brought them in and had a chance to hire both if their demands were met. These guys aren't Joe Schmoes off the street. It's Gruden and Peyton Manning. This was our out, a chance to fire Grigson and Pagano and actually upgrade, and Irsay didn't do it. It's a spit in the face to Gruden, Manning, and every Colt fan that supports this team, especially when he went after Gruden and Manning in the first place.

I wouldn't trust the rumor about Grigson being the main obstacle just yet. We need that from a reliable source, not these tweets from someone living in a basement.

 

It could be true, but the information is not solid, and the hate against Grigson is so widespread it might just come from someone with an agenda. Just something to keep in mind.

[NannyMcafee]

Well we know that the entire irsay family just loves grigson. So I wouldn't be surprised if we are seeing another Chris polian situation, in the form of owners. When you have 3 daughters whispering in your ear telling you what they want. Boy. Ownership is one way to get rid of your fan base. As far as I'm concerned, listening to your 3 daughters ( a man who has 3 daughters has no balance in his life) is about just as bad as listening to the fan base. 

 

I have seen men who have multiple daughters, and he becomes a sort of girly man because he absolutely adores his daughters. Nothing wrong with that in the real world. Just not the place for football. I'm taking a slight break from all this. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

2 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

Well we know that the entire irsay family just loves grigson. So I wouldn't be surprised if we are seeing another Chris polian situation, in the form of owners. When you have 3 daughters whispering in your ear telling you what they want. Boy. Ownership is one way to get rid of your fan base. As far as I'm concerned, listening to your 3 daughters ( a man who has 3 daughters has no balance in his life) is about just as bad as listening to the fan base. 

 

I have seen men who have multiple daughters, and he becomes a sort of girly man because he absolutely adores his daughters. Nothing wrong with that in the real world. Just not the place for football. I'm taking a slight break from all this. 

If these stories are true then yeah this sucks. But we don't even know if they're partially true.

[VocableLoki]

23 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Grigson was only the issue because of his relationship with Irsay. Irsay is obviously not going to admit anything, he's going to keep it hush-hush from the fans, media, and especially Grigson and Pagano so there's no turmoil within the organization. Sometimes things backfire, but if it's because of something petty like personnel control with Gruden and ownership stake with Manning, then Irsay is in the wrong. From everything we've heard, he brought them in and had a chance to hire both if their demands were met. These guys aren't Joe Schmoes off the street. It's Gruden and Peyton Manning. This was our out, a chance to fire Grigson and Pagano and actually upgrade, and Irsay didn't do it. It's a spit in the face to Gruden, Manning, and every Colt fan that supports this team, especially when he went after Gruden and Manning in the first place.

Irsay going after people he perceives to be upgrades is a spit in the face? Everything verified that's been written suggests that both guys turned us down, I've seen nothing to suggest Irsay wasn't giving in to demands.

[Jackie Daytona]

21 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

Well we know that the entire irsay family just loves grigson. So I wouldn't be surprised if we are seeing another Chris polian situation, in the form of owners. When you have 3 daughters whispering in your ear telling you what they want. Boy. Ownership is one way to get rid of your fan base. As far as I'm concerned, listening to your 3 daughters ( a man who has 3 daughters has no balance in his life) is about just as bad as listening to the fan base. 

 

I have seen men who have multiple daughters, and he becomes a sort of girly man because he absolutely adores his daughters. Nothing wrong with that in the real world. Just not the place for football. I'm taking a slight break from all this. 

is there a dislike button?  WTH are you talking about? lol

[Fisticuffs111]

I don't know why people would be shocked if this Grigson thing is true. It's been said before and it's not just some rumor, Ryan is very close with the Irsay family. Both Jim and his daughters, Jim during his legal troubles and the daughters whenever Jim was in rehab.

 

I get being skeptical of rumors, especially from Wells, and I'm not saying I think it did happen but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. I mean let's be real, when you see NFL analysts, ex-players or ex-coaches, talk about the Colts, they don't ever bash Chuck. It's almost always about talent deficiency, terrible O-line talent, terrible D talent. I don't doubt that in NFL circles, Ryan is viewed as basically incompetent. Look what his old Eagles co-worker said about him. It's part of why I think Irsay came out with his "the criticism Ryan gets is so unjust" quote. It seemed to me that wasn't pointed at the fans as much as it was to the constant media bashing he gets.

To be fair, I think Ryan gets too much hate from the ESPN talking heads as well. Or at the very least, they always stay very quiet on criticism of Chuck.

[Yoshinator]

7 minutes ago, VocableLoki said:

Irsay going after people he perceives to be upgrades is a spit in the face? Everything verified that's been written suggests that both guys turned us down, I've seen nothing to suggest Irsay wasn't giving in to demands.

They turned us down because Irsay didn't give them what they wanted. He created this mess by going after them, then he wouldn't give up something to get their services. You won't hear anything from Irsay, I guarantee you. Cause if it's confirmed as true that Irsay kept Grigson over Gruden and Manning, the fan base will revolt. Even the casual fan base knows who Jon Gruden is and that he's an upgrade to Pagano. Oh, and did I mention that Manning guy was kind of a hero to Colts fans and Irsay chose Grigson over him?

[jvan1973]

Has anyone with credibility actually made this claim?  

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I'm surprised people would be shocked by Irsay not wanting to fire Grigson. It's been said before around here and it's not just some rumor, Ryan is very close with the Irsay family. Both Jim and his daughters have gotten close with Ryan, Jim during his legal troubles and the daughters whenever Jim was in rehab.

 

I get being skeptical of rumors and I'm not saying I think it did happen, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it did. I mean let's be real, when you see NFL analysts, ex-players or ex-coaches, talk about the Colts, they don't ever bash Chuck. It's almost always about talent deficiency, terrible O-line talent, terrible D talent, never a bad word of Chuck. I fully believe that in NFL circles, Ryan is viewed as basically incompetent. Look what his old Eagles co-worker said about him. It's part of why I think Irsay came out with his "the criticism Ryan gets is so unjust" quote. It seemed to me that wasn't pointed at the fans as much as it was to the constant media bashing he gets.

It's just rumor unless you have evidence to the contrary

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

They turned us down because Irsay didn't give them what they wanted. He created this mess by going after them, then he wouldn't give up something to get their services. You won't hear anything from Irsay, I guarantee you. Cause if it's confirmed as true that Irsay kept Grigson over Gruden and Manning, the fan base will revolt. Even the casual fan base knows who Jon Gruden is and that he's an upgrade to Pagano. Oh, and did I mention that Manning guy was kind of a hero to Colts fans and Irsay chose Grigson over him?

You are speculating over something only brad wells is talking about

[Yoshinator]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

You are speculating over something only brad wells is talking about

I know, but it is true that Irsay didn't hire them. We know that as 100% fact. Something like that, even without full proof on the details, is bad enough. Irsay will never admit it, so he can't be trusted to give an opinion either way. Just the fact that we could of had Gruden and Manning and we don't is enough to make me take a break from football. I'll watch to see if he hires McDaniels or Kyle Shanahan, if not, I don't know what I'll do regarding the Colts this year.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

6 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I don't know why people would be shocked if this Grigson thing is true. It's been said before and it's not just some rumor, Ryan is very close with the Irsay family. Both Jim and his daughters, Jim during his legal troubles and the daughters whenever Jim was in rehab.

 

I get being skeptical of rumors, especially from Wells, and I'm not saying I think it did happen but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. I mean let's be real, when you see NFL analysts, ex-players or ex-coaches, talk about the Colts, they don't ever bash Chuck. It's almost always about talent deficiency, terrible O-line talent, terrible D talent. I don't doubt that in NFL circles, Ryan is viewed as basically incompetent. Look what his old Eagles co-worker said about him. It's part of why I think Irsay came out with his "the criticism Ryan gets is so unjust" quote. It seemed to me that wasn't pointed at the fans as much as it was to the constant media bashing he gets.

To be fair, I think Ryan gets too much hate from the ESPN talking heads as well. Or at the very least, they always stay very quiet on criticism of Chuck.

You can't cook without ingredients. 

And I highly doubt Irsay turned down manning and Gruden for Mr 1st round bust, I'm just not buying it.

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I know, but it is true that Irsay didn't hire them. We know that as 100% fact. Something like that, even without full proof on the details, is bad enough. Irsay will never admit it, so he can't be trusted to give an opinion either way. Just the fact that we could of had Gruden and Manning and we don't is enough to make me take a break from football. I'll watch to see if he hires McDaniels or Kyle Shanahan, if not, I don't know what I'll do regarding the Colts this year.

You will be watching them,  just like the rest of us.     Just because a deal didn't get done doesn't mean grigson was the sticking point.   Teams have been trying to get Gruden for years

[Fisticuffs111]

19 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

It's just rumor unless you have evidence to the contrary

Yeah, I made sure to be clear that it's a rumor, just that I wouldn't be surprised if it was true.

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I said it was a rumor. Doesn't mean I can't speculate by putting some backstory to it.

In your post you cover clearly said it is NOT A rumor

[Fisticuffs111]

9 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

In your post you cover clearly said it is NOT A rumor

Nope, I meant that in regards to Grigson being close to Irsay because some people are either unaware or possibly don't believe it. I can definitely see how that's confusing.

I even went on to say about the Gruden/Grigson rumor, "I know people are skeptical of rumors and I'm not saying I think it did happen."

[AZColt11]

Until Irsay speaks it's all still just spec.