I Hope This Is Not True/ Irsay chooses grigson over gruden....(merge)

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Well I was hearing a stake in ownership is what was holding up the deal .

How big of a stake??

[JColts72]

I think we feel po if such situation did occur if jimmy kept ryan over gruden/manning.

[richard pallo]

I don't, for one minute, believe Grigson staying is absoultely necessary for any change to happen.  Why would he tie their contracts together last year?  This got derailed because he was trying to do two big deals at the same time.  Very hard to do IMO.  It hit the national media and hit a snag.  Lots of pride and egos and money being affected here.  No one really knows where this goes.  Probably not even Jim knows but I bet he is still working it.

[Coltfreak]

16 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Oh they don't want more?  Boy are you naive.   I can't believe an adult would right that. 

Ha.  Anyone else see the irony in this post?

[jshipp23]

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Is there any credible evidence to back any of it up?

Do you have any credible evidence that it's not true? Ill be waiting..

[Coltfreak]

2 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

I can sell them at a loss 

Per game?    How much is face value?

[jameszeigler834]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

How big of a stake??

It didn't say how big just that it was the only thing holding the deal up.

[jvan1973]

Just now, jshipp23 said:

Do you have any credible evidence that it's not true? Ill be waiting..

Do you have any credible evidence Bigfoot isn't in your backyard?  I'll be waiting

[Coltfreak]

Just now, jameszeigler834 said:

It didn't say how big just that it was the only thing holding the deal up.

Who said it was?

[jshipp23]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

Do you have any credible evidence Bigfoot isn't in your backyard?  I'll be waiting

 Actually I have a plaster footprint proving he was...

[jvan1973]

Just now, jameszeigler834 said:

It didn't say how big just that it was the only thing holding the deal up.

So you don't think the size of the stake is important in this hypothetical?  What if peyton wanted 40%?  You still think irsay should give it to him?

[jvan1973]

Just now, jshipp23 said:

 Actually I have a plaster footprint proving he was...

Link?

[jshipp23]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Link?

Adam Shefter and Jay Glazer...

[deedub75]

7 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

Per game?    How much is face value?

 

About $250. They are a tough sell unless the Pats or Steelers are coming to town. 

[OffensivelyPC]

25 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Oh they don't want more?  Boy are you naive.   I can't believe an adult would right that. 

You know them personally? Boy you are a know-it-all.  I cant believe how write you are about everything.

[Coltfreak]

Just now, deedub75 said:

 

About $250. They are a tough sell unless the Pats or Steelers are coming to town. 

What section?  How many?

[ColtsBlueFL]

17 minutes ago, King Colt said:

Gruden makes 6.5 million/yr, the highest ESPN on air personality. After telling Pagano he will be back in 2017 Irsay decides to chat with Gruden. Not very sharp Jimmy.

 

 

Not every own acts the same. Jim has been involved from the ground floor picking up jock straps as a child in the locker room all.the way to the Big Kahuna, and knows every job.  He performed many of them, including being a GM.  He's more of a 'football guy' type owner.  These types typically don't instantaneously replace players, or staff until a better option is secured. Once the alternative is set, it is out with the knuckleheads, and let's move on.

 

17 minutes ago, King Colt said:

 

Jimmy it is reported has also chatted with Peyton about some type of job. What type of job do you think was discussed Grigson.

 

Judging by what Jay Glazer has said on TV, and the Colts current staff lineup today, it was likely "President of Football Operations".  Head of the Front Office. Jimmy Raye III is the current V.P. of Football Operations.  Ryan Grigson is the GM, but even if he was let go, that GM position probably wasn't offered (yet) as part of the initial package; despite Bill Polian's recommendation otherwise.

 

17 minutes ago, King Colt said:

 

Seems to me Irsay has lied to both about their future with the Colts. I'll guess Peyton has too much sense to work directly for Irsay and Gruden probably told Irsay to fly away.

 

Here is what Irsay boils the Grigson / Pagano extension to-

 

"But good working relationship, both have matured. I am banking in the investment of what I put into Chuck Pagano and Ryan Grigson. There's been a lot of time, money and many hours of investment and conversations and mentoring and talking to these guys and that's what I'm banking on.

 

Irsay has even said there were raised voices during these 'investment sessions'. I am quite sure most every conceivable aspect was brought out into the light probably causing defensive reactions, at least at first, with the ensuing yelling. But in the end, Irsay said it was all laid bare, the framework to 'work together' and in what fashion was laid as a foundation, and they were to continue to grow and move on from there.  Irsay has a vested interest and personal input into the situation.  He wants it to work as the  countless meetings and mentorin his vision had manifest in his mind. But he will adopt changes to make the team better, if the proper opportunity arises. Players, and/or staff.  But he will not gut the team Willy-Nilly because of fan reaction, or media pressure.  He is deliberate in his decision making, despite a fair amount of people here stating the opposite.

 

I am one that puts Irsay up near the level of Art Rooney, and Mara family as far as football type owners (though Mara blew the Josh Brown issue, IMHO) and gathering input from football guys to help in decision making.  Robert Kraft I put up there as well for Assembling football guys (Bill Belichick, namely) with stellar leadership, then getting the heck out of his/their way.

 

I'll wait for the stories to come out in time to determine how I truly feel about it all , but for right now, I only have the history/body of work of those involved to decide who is more credible, and what may have actually happened.

[VocableLoki]

1 hour ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

The hate is real in you

 

No hate, just found what you wrote silly.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

30 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

Ha.  Anyone else see the irony in this post?

[Creekside]

Does anyone wonder who these sources are? In such a preliminary discussion, why would anyone other than Irsay and Gruden need to be present? Did they meet at the ESPN cafeteria at noon surrounded by dozens of people?.......in Gruden's office while the janitor was emptying the waste baskets, who then texts Wells in exchange for a $10.00 coupon to McDonalds?

 

I'm not saying it's true or not true. I wasn't there....But who was there?...who was it who just couldn't wait to get all the juicy details out?......A fly on the wall with a cell phone? ..... It all seems very odd to me.....

 

Of course, if they were deep into negotiations there would be staffers and attorneys and such, but that is almost certainly not the case.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

I watched ESPN this morning and Adam only said that Gruden turned Indy down and that Manning was unlikely to join the Colts?  There was no mention of Grigson being kept as a deterrent?  Plus, if Manning was hired he would replace Grigson?   

[luv_pony_express]

17 hours ago, Derakynn said:

Giving away a stake in the team would be a stupid business decision. Under no circumstance should that ever be a condition. 

 

I don't fully agree with that -- but I'd make it contingent upon results.  Besides, I seriously doubt Manning was asking for equity to be "given" to him.

 

Personally, I'd rather own 90% of a great organization than 100% of a mediocre one.

 

I'll bet PM will find an owner (probably Tennessee or New Orleans, given his ties with both places) willing to let him buy in -- and I'll go further and say that we'll eventually be angry with the Irsays for not jumping at the chance to lock him in.

 

Peyton will succeed at whatever he chooses to do.  Why allow such a guy to become your competition?  That's most certainly not a good decision -- business or otherwise.

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

I don't fully agree with that -- but I'd make it contingent upon results.  Besides, I seriously doubt Manning was asking for equity to be "given" to him.

 

Personally, I'd rather own 90% of a great organization than 100% of a mediocre one.

 

I'll bet PM will find an owner (probably Tennessee or New Orleans, given his ties with both places) willing to let him buy in -- and I'll go further and say that we'll eventually be angry with the Irsays for not jumping at the chance to lock him in.

 

Peyton will succeed at whatever he chooses to do.  Why allow such a guy to become your competition?  That's most certainly not a good decision -- business or otherwise.

Peyton would actually increase the value of the Colts just being part of organization. ..Say Irsay gives him a 2% stake and the team becomes relevant again the value may go up lets say 10% Irsay just made a lot of money..Its a risk reward proposition, but I doubt Peyton would fail...

[jvan1973]

6 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Peyton would actually increase the value of the Colts just being part of organization. ..Say Irsay gives him a 2% stake and the team becomes relevant again the value may go up lets say 10% Irsay just made a lot of money..Its a risk reward proposition, but I doubt Peyton would fail...

The team hasn't stopped being relevant.  They sold out every game.  How exactly would peyton add value to the team?  There is no stock price to go up or down

[deedub75]

So does Irsay want a Super Bowl or does he just want Grigson and Pagano to succeed. Those 2 things are mutually exclusive. 

[oldunclemark]

17 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

As much as Manning did for this team give him what he wants this isn't even a question if I'm in Irsays position.

IF this story is true....it is what it is.. The family did not agree..so its no deal.....

I'd think the family must all agree..because the daughters will eventually own this team

 

What I'm curious about (again if this is true) is: Did the daughters want Peyton have more than their dad wanted him to have or less..?

 

[oldunclemark]

17 hours ago, #12. said:

Jimmy and the daughters - driving us back to the 80's and early 90's.  

 

Make no mistake, people will find something else to do, and LA already has two teams.

 

Reconsider.  

I don't think the Irsays will ever sell this team or give up majority control.

You cant ask them to  (well, you can ask but its their family team)

 

..and Colts fans most certainly will NOT find something else to do.

They will sell out every game of Andrew Luck's career....no matter how long it lasts

[jshipp23]

8 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

The team hasn't stopped being relevant.  They sold out every game.  How exactly would peyton add value to the team?  There is no stock price to go up or down

How did Lebron James increase the value of the Cavaliers? What will happen to the value of the Patriots when Belichik and Brady retire and they are no longer winning? 

[ponyboy]

7 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

The team hasn't stopped being relevant.  They sold out every game.  How exactly would peyton add value to the team?  There is no stock price to go up or down

 

Just because there is no public stock doesn't mean the valuation of the franchise doesn't change.  I agree that having Peyton associated with the franchise could have a positive impact on the valuation.

 

Here are the 2016 valuations (colts at $2.1B is even higher than I realized).  This site also shows in percentage increase in 2016.

 

http://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/list/#tab:overall

[jvan1973]

7 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

How did Lebron James increase the value of the Cavaliers? What will happen to the value of the Patriots when Belichik and Brady retire and they are no longer winning? 

Who determines the value of a professional sports team??  They aren't publicly traded.  The value is what someone is willing to sell it for and if they have a buyer willing to give them that .  Winning championships brings in money from merch and more exposure.  But simply adding a front office exec will not increase a billion dollar business by 10 percent.     

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, ponyboy said:

 

Just because there is no public stock doesn't mean the valuation of the franchise doesn't change.  I agree that having Peyton associated with the franchise could have a positive impact on the valuation.

 

Here are the 2016 valuations (colts at $2.1B is even higher than I realized).  This site also shows in percentage increase in 2016.

 

http://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/list/#tab:overall

They don't explain how they came up with these numbers.   Adding Peyton isn't going to increase the value of the team by 200 million dollars

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

Who determines the value of a professional sports team??  They aren't publicly traded.  The value is what someone is willing to sell it for and if they have a buyer willing to give them that winning championships brings in money from merch and more exposure.  But simply adding a front office exec will not increase a billion dollar business by 10 percent.     

The fact that it will be big national news and draw attention to the Colts it makes us more valuable instantly..Its called name recognition..You like to cherry pick parts of what I said , I said if we become relevant again as in contenders on prime time tv and leading narrative on the many sports shows it increases value..I also said it is a risk if Peyton does fail, which I doubt we could lose value...We would instantly gain some value in the short term the day Manning is hired, and could gain or lose value in the longterm based on if it works and if we win..Having Manning as a face of our Franchise gives us instant value regardless of what you think you know..

[jshipp23]

7 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

They don't explain how they came up with these numbers.   Adding Peyton isn't going to increase the value of the team by 200 million dollars

Actually it could...If we start winning and contending it could go much higher..

[jshipp23]

The day Lebron James resigned with the Cavs their value increased hundreds of millions before he ever played or won a game with them..

[chrisfarley]

1 hour ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Well I was hearing a stake in ownership is what was holding up the deal .

Head of Football operations positions don't give you shares of the football team, I doubt Manning would even ask for it.  He probably just wants the right exact situation to come into, and this wasn't it.  And Irsay might have thrown a few shares at him for incentive, but again, the situation probably just not right (timing, GM concerns, etc.)

[jvan1973]

11 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

The day Lebron James resigned with the Cavs their value increased hundreds of millions before he ever played or won a game with them..

Manning isn't coming back to play.   Do you really think the broncos value jumped by ten percent when elway was hired??

[jshipp23]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

Manning isn't coming back to play.   Do you really think the broncos value jumped by ten percent when elway was hired??

Manning is a much bigger name than Elway at this point..I didn't say it would jump 10% I said it could if we become relevant and start winning and become a storyline again...The value would increase the minute Manning signs as GM, who knows for sure what the percentage would be..It could be 2% it could be 10%, but we would go up in value..

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, jshipp23 said:

Manning is a much bigger name than Elway at this point..I didn't say it would jump 10% I said it could if we become relevant and start winning and become a storyline again...The value would increase the minute Manning signs as GM, who knows for sure what the percentage would be..It could be 2% it could be 10%, but we would go up in value..

Yeah,  ok

[buccolts]

4 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I know, but it is true that Irsay didn't hire them. We know that as 100% fact. Something like that, even without full proof on the details, is bad enough. Irsay will never admit it, so he can't be trusted to give an opinion either way. Just the fact that we could of had Gruden and Manning and we don't is enough to make me take a break from football. I'll watch to see if he hires McDaniels or Kyle Shanahan, if not, I don't know what I'll do regarding the Colts this year.

My, that's a pretty little fortress you've built there, to protect you against something you have no proof exists.

[AZColt11]

3 hours ago, #12. said:

He can't speak now.  What would he say?  If he's keeping Grigson and Chuck,  there is no way he would publicly admit to going after Peyton and Gruden.  You couldn't do it.

No but he could make some statement as to "We're disappointed with how the season went, but we're in this for the long haul.  Hopefully next year will be better.  See ya next season."  Nothing else would be needed.