Pagano takes full responsibility

[Shive]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Josh McDaniels. He's supposed to be leaving New England. He's an offensive coach that can get the best out of Luck, he's shown he's willing to get better by asking Dungy for help, and he knows the Pats well. He's learned under Belichick, and he's miles ahead where he was in Denver.

He's an amazing OC and there's no refuting that. You have no clue if he'd be any better than he was in Denver, and he was atrocious. He inherited an 8-8 team from Shanahan, tore his locker room apart by trying to strong-arm everyone to assert himself as the next Belichick, and was fired after going 3-9. He's an EXTREMELY high risk, high reward coaching candidate.

[Shive]

5 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Id take Jeff Fisher over nogano all day 

You're insane. Fisher has had 1 successful team that went to the SB and otherwise has been one of the worst coaches (statistically) of the last decade.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Shive said:

He's an amazing OC and there's no refuting that. You have no clue if he'd be any better than he was in Denver, and he was atrocious. He inherited an 8-8 team from Shanahan, tore his locker room apart by trying to strong-arm everyone to assert himself as the next Belichick, and was fired after going 3-9. He's an EXTREMELY high risk, high reward coaching candidate.

He's definitely more mature now. I respect the fact he asked for help and how to get better. It's a willingness to learn and a willingness to humble yourself. I've had to do it myself. He's young, driven, and wants to be great. I don't think he's really high-risk. His situation is somewhat similar to what ours would be. He can coach our strength and make it better. Everything about this hire makes sense. This is the only realistic option available that can take us to the SB IMO. I'm willing to take the chance.

[Shive]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

He's definitely more mature now. I respect the fact he asked for help and how to get better. It's a willingness to learn and a willingness to humble yourself. I've had to do it myself. He's young, driven, and wants to be great. I don't think he's really high-risk. His situation is somewhat similar to what ours would be. He can coach our strength and make it better. Everything about this hire makes sense. This is the only realistic option available that can take us to the SB IMO. I'm willing to take the chance.

I can definitely understand your stance on him. He would have to blow me away in an interview and make me feel that he truely learned from his mistakes, has grown, and what he would do differently/how he would now handle similar situations.

 

I will say that it seems like the teams with offensive-minded coaches typically are better and have better defenses. I'm not sure why, but it may be because they allow their DC to fully control the defense and there's no conflict of scheme/philosophy between the DC & HC.

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, Shive said:

I can definitely understand your stance on him. He would have to blow me away in an interview and make me feel that he truely learned from his mistakes, has grown, and what he would do differently/how he would now handle similar situations.

 

I will say that it seems like the teams with offensive-minded coaches typically are better and have better defenses. I'm not sure why, but it may be because they allow their DC to fully control the defense and there's no conflict of scheme/philosophy between the DC & HC.

I was thinking the same about hearing an interview. Admittedly, I haven't heard one regarding a HC position, but I don't think he's the same guy. We'll get more info for sure on him after the season ends.

[Gavin]

Pagano clearly has had his faults as a coach but the real issue is not enough skilled players on the roster. Talent you have naturally. We have talented played but not enough skilled players. The time for Pagano and Grigson to be let go has came and gone. They will likely be here the next 4 years so I think some need to get used to it. We simply have to acquire more skilled players through the draft and if the opportunity and situation presents itself not settle for bum free agents like we have in the past

 

The focus should be on gaining more skilled and talented players

[coltsfeva]

Can't wait to see what Chuck can do with a healthy team and a good draft.  By the way, compare his record for the first five years will Bill  Belicheck's. (Belicheck had one winning season with Cleveland). Point is, coaches can learn from past failures. I think the criticism for Pagano is understandable but doesn't take into account the poor execution and mistakes of the players. 

[UKColt13]

I like the guy as a person. But he just isn't the coach we need. 

 

Time to move on.

[NorthernBlue]

The more I've visited this forum after the Colts got eliminated, the more brain cells I find myself losing.

 

Speaking of losing, some of you here really don't take it that well, eh?

 

Next season will be better. Hopefully

[1959Colts]

I'm sick and tired of hearing all of Pagano's rhetoric

[themacs@feathersnfins.net]

5 hours ago, Gyworks said:

If you really take responsibility then you resign after you failed to meet the expectations. Chuck have had more than four years to build the monster but he built a mediocre team instead, time to move on.

NOT... Get Used To It, They Will Be Around For Some Time.. Chuck & The GM will Have Time To Build Their Monster... Through The Draft The Right Way.

[Buddy Lee]

Given the choice, I would take Bill O'Brien over Chuck. O'Brien was at least a successful HC at one stop before Houston, Penn State. I believe Chuck is a living example of the Peter Principle..promoted to a position of incompetence. He is often credited as the DC of the terrific Ravens defense. In reality he was only coordinator for 2011. He didn't install the defense or shape the defense. That was done by Marvin Lewis, Rex Ryan and Greg Mattison. All Chuck had to do was not mess with success and stay the course for that single year. I'm sure Ray Lewis helped with that. 

 

Another very, very, very successful DC who became a less than mediocre HC is Dick LeBeau.  Another prime example of the Peter Principle in action.

[jshipp23]

2 minutes ago, Buddy Lee said:

Given the choice, I would take Bill O'Brien over Chuck. O'Brien was at least a successful HC at one stop before Houston, Penn State. I believe Chuck is a living example of the Peter Principle..promoted to a position of incompetence. He is often credited as the DC of the terrific Ravens defense. In reality he was only coordinator for 2011. He didn't install the defense or shape the defense. That was done by Marvin Lewis, Rex Ryan and Greg Mattison. All Chuck had to do was not mess with success and stay the course for that single year. I'm sure Ray Lewis helped with that. 

 

Another very, very, very successful DC who became a less than mediocre HC is Dick LeBeau.  Another prime example of the Peter Principle in action.

Ding ding ding

[2006Coltsbestever]

I would take O'Brien over Chuck, O'Brien wins with Osweiler and Savage, we have a Good to Very Good QB in Andrew and still didn't win the Division. Houston even won it without Watt. That is their leader!

[jshipp23]

We got to find a Wade Philips, Dick LeBeau, Rod Marinelli type DC, if we are gonna keep the hand clapper as head coach. .

[Buddy Lee]

 

6 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

We got to find a Wade Philips, Dick LeBeau, Rod Marinelli type DC, if we are gonna keep the hand clapper as head coach. .

I agree. The only issue is can we find one available? I don't know of a good available candidate besides Rex Ryan and I don't want him because of his abrasive style and I don't know how well he would adjust to a demotion.

 

Having said that, Monachino hasn't had much talent to work with. The only plus players at their position on defense are Vontae (when not hampered by injury) and Anderson (if and when completely healthy). I might get arguments for ancient mariner  Adams, who can be expected to fade fast, and Walden. There is a dearth of talent at LB.

[krunk]

I still believe in Chuck, but 2017 is my last year if nothing gets accomplished even after improving the talent.

[jshipp23]

We r stuck with the bum it looks like..Hopefully we get enough talent to win in in spite of him..

[CoachLite]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

I still believe in Chuck, but 2017 is my last year if nothing gets accomplished even after improving the talent.

You get a Mother Theresa award for your faith.

[NannyMcafee]

5 hours ago, Shive said:

1. It was made clear last season that Grigs tied his hands since they arrived and only this season was he able to really coach. I blame Grigson WAY more than I do Pagano, because Chuck can only do but so much with the lack of talent Grigson drafted/wasted in past years. It's finally getting better and maybe that has to do with other coaches having a say in personnel decisions.

 

2. So if you have a not so good period of time at work, despite being a top employee for years, you would go up to your boss and resign? That shows that you've given up. It's a b**** move and shows nothing but cowardice.

 

I also hope you're the best at your job all the time, otherwise, you may want to just resign...

 

I have more faith in grigson than I do in pagano. At least grigson as shown improvement in talent whereas pagano has done what with it? This team isn't so without talent that the coach can't win in the worst division in the AFC. 

 

Im sorry but a good coach does better with what he has. Pagano has proven that he cannot lift the team to a better level of play. Anyone can win with the best players in the NFL but it is solely up to the head coach to lift that talent to better heights. 

 

What wouod you rather have? An amazingly talented team or an amazingly talented head coach? I'll go with the coach and beat you every time, just like BB of the patriots. 

 

This team isnt lacking in talent as much as you wish it were. 

[jshipp23]

Some people need understand this.. We are a 12-4 team staring 7-9 in the face..Unacceptable 

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Some people need understand this.. We are a 12-4 team staring 7-9 in the face..Unacceptable 

 

What in the world?!?

 

At the start of the year there was almost no one in the NFL media who thought Indy was going to win the division.  Most had the Colts pegged for 3rd.

 

Analytics said we have a below average roster and Andrew Luck.      And we do.

 

We are an 8-8 team staring at 7-9.        We've never had a 12-4 roster.     Never.    Not once.    Not even in the 11-5 days.

 

Why are you posting such nonsense?      You're smarter than this.      This is not a very talented team.   It never has been.         And just writing the sentence doesn't make it so.....

 

 

[Colts1324]

4 hours ago, Shive said:

I wouldn't fire someone without a definite improvement available. I don't see any viable options that would be better than Pagano, despite how inept you believe him to be. I'm not the biggest fan of him as a HC, but I don't believe that he's as bad as most of you think.

 

I'd love harbaugh, but we all know that's not going to happen, as he's staying at Michigan. 

Coughlin and Mike Shannahan will be available. Sean Payton could be had. Peyton manning is always available too(kidding). Seriously I think anyone would be better than Pagano. 

[will426]

There's like no repercussions for our players with stupid penalties..everything is so passive and accepting these guys feel like they run the team not the coach 

[Superman]

27 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

Seriously I think anyone would be better than Pagano

 

Seriously?

[twfish]

6 hours ago, Shive said:

1. It was made clear last season that Grigs tied his hands since they arrived and only this season was he able to really coach. I blame Grigson WAY more than I do Pagano, because Chuck can only do but so much with the lack of talent Grigson drafted/wasted in past years. It's finally getting better and maybe that has to do with other coaches having a say in personnel decisions.

 

2. So if you have a not so good period of time at work, despite being a top employee for years, you would go up to your boss and resign? That shows that you've given up. It's a b**** move and shows nothing but cowardice.

 

I also hope you're the best at your job all the time, otherwise, you may want to just resign...

It was never made clear by the way it was media blah blah blah. And if Grigson was being more of a coach when the team had 3 straight seasons with 11-5 and continued progression into the playoffs but this season Pagano "has full control" and will be lucky too finish 500 wouldn't that mean Grigs is a better coach?

[MR. Blueblood]

I would try to hire either of NE's coordinators.  I have more faith in Matt Patricia (Bluto as I like to call him) doing something with this D than Pagano and Monachino combined.  McDaniel's offense of dink and dunk and use of the TEs would help our line, the QB, the sack numbers and more than likely lower Luck'so INTS too.  It would be foolish to not look elsewhere, there are skilled coordinators who would be upgrades to Pagano.  I just really don't see Chuck ever being the guy to lead this team to the promised land.

[BOTT]

4 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

Can't wait to see what Chuck can do with a healthy team and a good draft.  By the way, compare his record for the first five years will Bill  Belicheck's. (Belicheck had one winning season with Cleveland). Point is, coaches can learn from past failures. I think the criticism for Pagano is understandable but doesn't take into account the poor execution and mistakes of the players. 

Where has Chuck shown improvement?

[Superman]

4 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Josh McDaniels. He's supposed to be leaving New England. He's an offensive coach that can get the best out of Luck, he's shown he's willing to get better by asking Dungy for help, and he knows the Pats well. He's learned under Belichick, and he's miles ahead where he was in Denver.

 

He'd be my first interview, during the bye. He might not be the last man standing, but there's no way he wouldn't be on my list.

[Superman]

4 hours ago, Shive said:

I wouldn't fire someone without a definite improvement available.

 

I take issue with this. There are probably people who would make themselves available if the job came open. There are a lot of coaches who won't openly angle for another coach's job, but once the hammer drops, they line up to get in the door.

 

I think you have to make the job available, then cast a wide net and find the best man. 

 

What we know about Pagano is that he is not the right man. At least, not IMO.

[LockeDown]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

What in the world?!?

 

At the start of the year there was almost no one in the NFL media who thought Indy was going to win the division.  Most had the Colts pegged for 3rd.

 

Analytics said we have a below average roster and Andrew Luck.      And we do.

 

We are an 8-8 team staring at 7-9.        We've never had a 12-4 roster.     Never.    Not once.    Not even in the 11-5 days.

 

Why are you posting such nonsense?      You're smarter than this.      This is not a very talented team.   It never has been.         And just writing the sentence doesn't make it so.....

 

 

At the beginning of last season, everyone had us pegged for the Super Bowl.  So, I assume they thought we had the talent.

[Colts1324]

34 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Seriously?

Lol do you argue otherwise? 

[LockeDown]

What about Tom Coughlin?  He wants to return.  Well prepared, disciplined and is a winner.  He is old but we found out young isn't so great either.  

[gacoop1]

I've said all along fhat Josh McDaniel would be a good fit for the Colts. He understands the system on the offensive side and will improve Luck greatly on offense. He would call the right plays at the right time. But to no avail the owner has already committed to those two. Expect mediocrity for years to come,  unfortunately. 

 

 

 

 

[Superman]

33 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

Lol do you argue otherwise? 

 

Do I have to???

 

Pagano isn't a great coach, but he's not an awful coach. There are some legitimately awful coaches in and around the NFL, some whose recent records make Pagano look like Tom Landry.

 

I'll just assume moving forward that this is an exaggeration, even if it's really not. You're certainly entitled to your opinion...

[Colts1324]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Do I have to???

 

Pagano isn't a great coach, but he's not an awful coach. There are some legitimately awful coaches in and around the NFL, some whose recent records make Pagano look like Tom Landry.

 

I'll just assume moving forward that this is an exaggeration, even if it's really not. You're certainly entitled to your opinion...

I mean I agree he isn't the worst. You're right it is more of an exaggeration. But when I say anybody, I assume if Irsay hires someone, he is going to do his due diligence when searching for a coach. And I would think the coach he decides to hire would have this team prepared better than Pagano does. 

[jshipp23]

1 hour ago, LockeDown said:

At the beginning of last season, everyone had us pegged for the Super Bowl.  So, I assume they thought we had the talent.

Exactly, what happened? I know we got talent..Every team has holes that's the NFL, but we should be a top 8 team right now..

[esmort]

1 hour ago, jshipp23 said:

Exactly, what happened? I know we got talent..Every team has holes that's the NFL, but we should be a top 8 team right now..

 

What roster are you looking at? Definitely not the Colts'. No way this is a top 8 team. 

[Bubbz]

11 hours ago, Gyworks said:

If you really take responsibility then you resign after you failed to meet the expectations. Chuck have had more than four years to build the monster but he built a mediocre team instead, time to move on.

Im not a fan of Pagano, but not many people are going to resign voluntarily from a multi million dollar a year contract

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, LockeDown said:

At the beginning of last season, everyone had us pegged for the Super Bowl.  So, I assume they thought we had the talent.

 

That was for 2015,   not 2016.