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Pagano takes full responsibility


indyagent17

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If Chuck is let go, I can guarantee one thing:  there won't be any semblance of unanimous acceptance of whomever the new hire is.  Vince Lombardi could be re-incarnated and hired and some would be like "Well, he only won 2 Superbowls so I don't know......he had a lot of great players......"  yada yada.

 

No matter what happens it should be fun entertaining around here.

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11 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

Can't wait to see what Chuck can do with a healthy team and a good draft.  By the way, compare his record for the first five years will Bill  Belicheck's. (Belicheck had one winning season with Cleveland). Point is, coaches can learn from past failures. I think the criticism for Pagano is understandable but doesn't take into account the poor execution and mistakes of the players. 

 

Not too much because Chuck simply is not a good coach but one who has benefitted from a putrid division with a franchise qb. Are you really comparing Chuck's first five vs Bill's? Chuck wasn't in a division with the Steelers or the W Moon led Oilers either and Bill's path to greatness would've been a lot sooner if his situation was swapped with Chuck's beginnings. I base Chuck on his coaching alone and Grigson on the roster. The COACHING mistakes that Chuck displays over and over has nothing to do with Grigson. Poor clock management, sporadic play calling (especially on offense), followed with the team's lack of focus and discipline at key moments. Add in the continued problem of poor tackling and the questionable overall game plans on a weekly basis all point directly at Chuck as hc.  

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15 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

He just beat us 2 years in a row with no qb and inferior talent 

The only inferior talent is really at QB. Their defense is light years better than ours, OL slightly better, and receiving core and RBs are about the same. Overall the Texans are a more talented team than the Colts. If they get a real QB they'll start sweeping us every year. The Colts have the best QB and WR in the division but are the least talented team in the AFC South.

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12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

What in the world?!?

 

At the start of the year there was almost no one in the NFL media who thought Indy was going to win the division.  Most had the Colts pegged for 3rd.

 

Analytics said we have a below average roster and Andrew Luck.      And we do.

 

We are an 8-8 team staring at 7-9.        We've never had a 12-4 roster.     Never.    Not once.    Not even in the 11-5 days.

 

Why are you posting such nonsense?      You're smarter than this.      This is not a very talented team.   It never has been.         And just writing the sentence doesn't make it so.....

 

 

Are you serious with this?  

 

We came off an 8-8 year where our #1 paid QB missed half the season.  No one in their media had us being worse than last year.  After a decade of consistenly creaming the titans and Texans. .

 

Not one respectable media outlet had us going 3rd place in our division.  Not one.  

 

You're just creating some safe space of an excuse for yourself and for why we did so awful this year. 

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12 hours ago, BOTT said:

Where has Chuck shown improvement?

  I'm not privy to the meetings and talks after a win or loss. As fans, none of us are. So, I don't know what exactly is said. But I do know the process is to watch the tape, look at what was done correctly or incorrectly and focus on what needs to be done differently, to execute. Whether or not a player heeds the instruction is up to them. For instance, don't you think a simple thing like looking the ball into your hands (if you are a receiver, running back or tight end) was emphasized? Are those drops Pagano's fault or did the player(s) lose focus?

  People simply look at the record and draw conclusions. They choose not to look at the positives. In a game where 60 offensive plays are run, if there is a coaching decision or play run that is not executed properly, the outcry is to fire Pagano & Grigson.

I may be in a minority and that's ok. I know some fans share my optimism. I see an offensive line starting to come together. I see the short passing game and run game emerging. Special teams are solid. There are some pieces needed defensively (like a dominate pass rush) but I see some glimpses of a good defense that needs to play more consistently. If nothing else, I see some younger guys who have gained experience this year and will provide solid depth, next year. And I think last year's draft was pretty good.

  We would all agree that change is necessary. How that change occurs is where we part ways: To you, it may be "fire Grigson and Pagano" or one of them.

  To me Pagano, Grigson, the coaching staff and team all need to improve. Same people learning from their mistakes, including most of the players.

 To start all over at this point is self-defeating as it would usher in a whole new terminology, philosophy and coaching staff, which may take more time to gel than staying with Pagano. During the course of his coaching career, he improved defenses, when given the chance.

 But given the amount of injuries to critical players these past 2 years (and Grigson's mistakes early in his tenure), it's easy to see why the Colts went from three 11-5 seasons to two 8-8 seasons. Let's just see what happens next year.

  

  

  

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20 minutes ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Are you serious with this?  

 

We came off an 8-8 year where our #1 paid QB missed half the season.  No one in their media had us being worse than last year.  After a decade of consistenly creaming the titans and Texans. .

 

Not one respectable media outlet had us going 3rd place in our division.  Not one.  

 

You're just creating some safe space of an excuse for yourself and for why we did so awful this year. 

 

I think that perennial Colts hater Heath Evans had us going 6-10 at the beginning of the season, we are not that far. :)

 

Football Outsiders, here is the article, predicted us to go 7-9 and third in the AFC South in May 2016, I now say wow!!! 

 

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2016/5/11/11658572/football-outsiders-projects-colts-to-finish-third-in-afc-south-in-2016

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17 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

Can't wait to see what Chuck can do with a healthy team and a good draft.  By the way, compare his record for the first five years will Bill  Belicheck's. (Belicheck had one winning season with Cleveland). Point is, coaches can learn from past failures. I think the criticism for Pagano is understandable but doesn't take into account the poor execution and mistakes of the players. 

 

The problem is that the draft is not going to make an immediate impact. Those guys need time to develop and many of them will just plain suck. 

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51 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

The problem is that the draft is not going to make an immediate impact. Those guys need time to develop and many of them will just plain suck. 

Besides philbin TedM and BrianS I don't see any of our other coaches helping any of these player develop better  Walden had his best year under ted  the young linemen are looking decent under philbin and Brian has helped luck a lot everyone else has failed  keeping some of these coaches to develop our new talent is gonna be bad 

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29 minutes ago, coltsfeva said:

Didn't Ryan Kelly make an immediate impact? You're assuming these two things based on what?

 

It's hard to say. He missed some snaps and the o line still played about the same. I think he's gonna be great for the Colts.  He's the only 1st rounder outside of Luck who has been a plug and play guy. 

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4 hours ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

No one in their media had us being worse than last year.

 

Several in the media did, actually. I didn't agree with them, but that's because I thought Chud would do a better job. 

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2016/09/06/record-projections-super-bowl-li-2016-steelers-cardinals/89755004/

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2016-nfl-picks-how-all-32-teams-will-finish-and-super-bowl-predictions/

https://www.teamrankings.com/blog/nfl/2016-preseason-nfl-predictions-32-teams

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Most of the media had us below 10 wins....more like 7 or 8 as I recall.  I kept thinking they were dead wrong and at worse we'd be 10-6, and if not for the crazy amount of injuries, I think we would have been so.

 

IMO, Pags coached us to be as good as we could be and with a couple breaks maybe be a 10 win team which would have been an over achievement. 

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5 hours ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Are you serious with this?  

 

We came off an 8-8 year where our #1 paid QB missed half the season.  No one in their media had us being worse than last year.  After a decade of consistenly creaming the titans and Texans. .

 

Not one respectable media outlet had us going 3rd place in our division.  Not one.  

 

You're just creating some safe space of an excuse for yourself and for why we did so awful this year. 

 

I''m telling you again.....     we were not picked to win the division by most.

 

I had a thread on an ESPN story they they do every year....   evaluating rosters by analytics.     And our roster was among the lowest ranked.      There were all sorts of threads about how so many media outlets didn't think we had a very good team.    They were talking up the other three teams.     I made countless posts telling upset Colts fans on this website that while WE, the Colts fans thought we had a good team,   those who cover the NFL for a living did not.      And ESPN wasn't alone.      Yes,  there were some media outlets who still liked us.     But they were the exceptions and not the rule.

 

People here were not happy.      I got a number of responses saying....   "They may be right, but can we at least wait until the season is played to pass judgement?"

 

As the season unfolded and we struggled to hit 500,  when posters said what's wrong with this team,  I often told them "nothing".      That this is what we were projected to do.   

 

I'm sorry you didn't follow those threads in August and September and beyond.

 

But I'm not making this up.     If I had a dollar for every post I made responding to other people who were upset,   I'd be rich.

 

Finally:    Why do I need an excuse for myself?   

 

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35 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I''m telling you again.....     we were not picked to win the division by most.

 

I had a thread on an ESPN story they they do every year....   evaluating rosters by analytics.     And our roster was among the lowest ranked.      There were all sorts of threads about how so many media outlets didn't think we had a very good team.    They were talking up the other three teams.     I made countless posts telling upset Colts fans on this website that while WE, the Colts fans thought we had a good team,   those who cover the NFL for a living did not.      And ESPN wasn't alone.      Yes,  there were some media outlets who still liked us.     But they were the exceptions and not the rule.

 

People here were not happy.      I got a number of responses saying....   "They may be right, but can we at least wait until the season is played to pass judgement?"

 

As the season unfolded and we struggled to hit 500,  when posters said what's wrong with this team,  I often told them "nothing".      That this is what we were projected to do.   

 

I'm sorry you didn't follow those threads in August and September and beyond.

 

But I'm not making this up.     If I had a dollar for every post I made responding to other people who were upset,   I'd be rich.

 

Finally:    Why do I need an excuse for myself?   

 

Just a hypothetical for you NCF..How many wins do you think Gruden would have gotten with this same team?

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2 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

Just a hypothetical for you NCF..How many wins do you think Gruden would have gotten with this same team?

 

Well.....     this isn't the issue we've been talking about,  but as I noted in another exchange,  you're great at changing the topic...

 

But,  I'll play along....      here's Jon Gruden's 11 year coaching record in the NFL.

 

Regular season:  winning percentage of 540.     Playoffs 556.

 

He's not Vince Lombardi.       He's not Bill Bellicheck.

 

                 W    L                     W  L

Total[25] 95 81 0 .540   5 4 .556
 

 

So, I'd guess roughly the same.    Maybe a little better,  but not by much.

 

As I've said for 5 years now....   Nagano has not had much talent to work with.    So, considering how little he's had to work with,  I'd say he's done pretty well.

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On 12/27/2016 at 2:47 PM, jshipp23 said:

Id take anyone over Pagano...As far as Texans Tolzien is better than any qb on their roster and Watt has been out all yr.. They got Hopkins and an old lamar miller on offense with no qb..Hopkins is a good #2..Yet they r in position to go 10-6..we have a better cb, better safetys,  better d line, better receivers, better tight ends, and a once in a decade qb..Yet they beat us again..Pagano is the problem period..

I'm am not a Pagano fan at all but it I laughable to say we are a better defensive team than Houston. Without their best player J.J. Watt this is what they managed. http://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html?group=D&cat=T. Their defense is on top of every other NFL team in a lot of categories. They may even have the best Defense in the NFL this year without Watt.

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On 12/27/2016 at 2:47 PM, jshipp23 said:

Id take anyone over Pagano...As far as Texans Tolzien is better than any qb on their roster and Watt has been out all yr.. They got Hopkins and an old lamar miller on offense with no qb..Hopkins is a good #2..Yet they r in position to go 10-6..we have a better cb, better safetys,  better d line, better receivers, better tight ends, and a once in a decade qb..Yet they beat us again..Pagano is the problem period..

I'm am not a Pagano fan at all but it I laughable to say we are a better defensive team than Houston. Without their best player J.J. Watt this is what they managed. http://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html?group=D&cat=T. Their defense is on top of every other NFL team in a lot of categories. They may even have the best Defense in the NFL this year without Watt.

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43 minutes ago, YourTearinApartLisa! said:

I'm am not a Pagano fan at all but it I laughable to say we are a better defensive team than Houston. Without their best player J.J. Watt this is what they managed. http://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html?group=D&cat=T. Their defense is on top of every other NFL team in a lot of categories. They may even have the best Defense in the NFL this year without Watt.

I didn't say we had a better defense, I said we had the best CB , better safetys and better d-line without them Having Watt..They got Clowney , an old Wilfork, and better linebackers..There offense is TRASH and they still found a way to beat Colts. We should have won both games. Thats coaching..

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3 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

I didn't say we had a better defense, I said we had the best CB , better safetys and better d-line without them Having Watt..They got Clowney , an old Wilfork, and better linebackers..There offense is TRASH and they still found a way to beat Colts. We should have won both games. Thats coaching..

 

 

I'm sorry you're not watching much football these days because what your writing doesn't match what's happening on the playing field...

 

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I think some people under the impression that just because player A had a great year in lets say 2015 for example that means well he must have had a great year in 2016. That's not how it works. Players have to make many of the same plays they made in 2015 again in 2016 and many times different plays because it is a new season. Just because Player A had a great year in 2015 does not mean he will always come back the next year and have a great year........Vontae did not do that this year

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On 12/27/2016 at 2:36 PM, jshipp23 said:

With a legit coach this team would be 12-4..Obrien at Houston has won the division with no qb and his best defensive player hurt all year and 1 legit WR no te, and a journeyman rb..Wish we had O'brien..

 

1. Their defense was pretty good outside of Watt and Clowney came on at just the right time.

 

2. They have a TE.  CJ Fiedorowicz.  52 receptions for 547 yards and 3 TD's

 

3. Will Fuller isn't a terrible #2 as a rookie.  44 Receptions for 611 yards and 2 TD's. 

 

Remember #2 and #3 where accomplished with their terrible quarterbacking.

 

Really all they are missing is the quarterback.  Outside of that position they have a really strong team.  

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They have some nice players on defense in Cushing, Clowney, Merciless, Bouye...I think we got nice players too and we are young..Im saying better coaching and our defense would look much better...Injuries killed us too..Houston just doesn't impress me especially on offense and they won't be getting a QB soon...

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