Darius Butler: Best Coverage Rating in NFL

[Somewhere ovr the Waynebow]

According to PFF (take it for what it's worth),  Darius Butler is allowing a passer rating of 63.3 into his coverage when lined up in the slot.  That's the best in the NFL. 

 

Butler has had a great year this year after struggling at times last year.  Regardless of what you think of Pagano/this coaching staff,  the Butler reclamation project has been a big success.  

 

 

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

Great slot corner. I would say probably better safety than outside corner. If we could have a legit number 2, our secondary would be set.

[GoColtsWin]

Great to see a resurgence of his game on a whole. His coverage/tackling seem to be exactly what the coaches are wanting, and his confidence is there to execute what he needs to do. JMO of course. 

[krunk]

I thought he was going to pick that ball off on that throw to Antonio Brown in the end zone.   Has played that safety spot well and apparently it seems he's been playing the nickel well too.

[Somewhere ovr the Waynebow]

27 minutes ago, krunk said:

I thought he was going to pick that ball off on that throw to Antonio Brown in the end zone.   Has played that safety spot well and apparently it seems he's been playing the nickel well too.

I've always wondered what would happen if Butler shadowed Brown.  I know he isn't great on the outside, but he is quick-twitch more than speed (if that makes sense)  and so is Brown.  Seems like it could be a better matchup then Davis.  But just a hypothetical I've thought of.  

[krunk]

9 minutes ago, Somewhere ovr the Waynebow said:

I've always wondered what would happen if Butler shadowed Brown.  I know he isn't great on the outside, but he is quick-twitch more than speed (if that makes sense)  and so is Brown.  Seems like it could be a better matchup then Davis.  But just a hypothetical I've thought of.  

I just say use more Cover 2 and blitz selectively.  Much less one on one coverage.  If it is one on one it should be off coverage .

[runthepost]

6 minutes ago, krunk said:

I just say use more Cover 2 and blitz selectively.  Much less one on one coverage.  If it is one on one it should be off coverage .

Agree because if you try to press him like Davis did and he gets a good release it's 7 points. Play off and keep him in front of you

[21isSuperman]

If I recall correctly, he wasn't that great in the slot last year.  This year, his play has been better.  He's made some plays while playing safety, too.  I wonder how his stats as a safety compare to his stats as a slot CB

[Steamboat_Shaun]

3 hours ago, Somewhere ovr the Waynebow said:

According to PFF (take it for what it's worth),  Darius Butler is allowing a passer rating of 63.3 into his coverage when lined up in the slot.  That's the best in the NFL. 

 

Butler has had a great year this year after struggling at times last year.  Regardless of what you think of Pagano/this coaching staff,  the Butler reclamation project has been a big success.  

 

 

 

I actually saw this on PFF a few weeks back, but didn't feel like the sample size was big enough to warrant posting it here since he missed those few games with the hamstring and finger injuries. Fast forward a few more weeks, and he's been just as good, playing with one hand, and filling in at safety, at a very high level. Very underrated signing for Grigson & Co.

[DougDew]

Butler has always been underappreciated by this forum.  He's a slot CB, but gets criticized repeatedly when he gives up plays when forced to play another position.

 

Then, of course, that gets elevated up to Grigson criticisms.

[Somewhere ovr the Waynebow]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

I just say use more Cover 2 and blitz selectively.  Much less one on one coverage.  If it is one on one it should be off coverage .

Agreed. For the life of me, I'll never understand why they ever left him one on one with Davis,  who was clearly playing hurt.  

 

They adjusted well and really slowed Pittsburgh offense down,  but the damage was done.  

[Fisticuffs111]

Butler needs to be kept as our slot corner. He's been underrated by some but I don't think it's really intentional. CB's are a hard position to keep track of, too little room for error to most fans.

[Colt Overseas]

Will we re-sign him in the off-season? The priority is at CB2 and Robinson can play in the slot. 

 

Grigson should really have sorted out the CB2 position last year, there was some good options, even if we had to pay a bit extra.

[Jdubu]

2 hours ago, Somewhere ovr the Waynebow said:

I've always wondered what would happen if Butler shadowed Brown.  I know he isn't great on the outside, but he is quick-twitch more than speed (if that makes sense)  and so is Brown.  Seems like it could be a better matchup then Davis.  But just a hypothetical I've thought of.  

On the Brown coverage, that should have been 2 people around him not named Davis. Davis should have been covering the 2nd receiver to maximize coverage in the secondary. I just don't think that Pagano has a clue how to handle a defensive plan (still after 4+ years) and Manachino is just too new to get it all right in the first season, he needed a good mentor and Pagano doesn't seem to. We that person sadly. 

[NewColtsFan]

40 minutes ago, Colt Overseas said:

Will we re-sign him in the off-season? The priority is at CB2 and Robinson can play in the slot. 

 

Grigson should really have sorted out the CB2 position last year, there was some good options, even if we had to pay a bit extra.

 

We didn't want to pay extra because that would've cost us the #4 compensatory draft pick we're going to get for losing Fleener.       The team is rebuilding on the fly while still trying to be competitive.

 

 

[Luck2Hilton4TD]

When he's played the slot, he's been pretty solid. It's only when he's had to play outside due to injuries (last year's Bills game rings a bell) that he's gotten burned. 

[GoColts8818]

He's quietly been a very good player for the Colts, one of the few play makers that they have on defense.  He is what he is though, a slot corner.  He's just not a number one or two corner.  He has shown promise at safety though which could come more into play as he gets older and as a guy like Adams reach the end of his career.  Even with Geathers and Green they could use a third safety.

[lollygagger8]

Butler the Baller!  

He's always around the ball...even with a club on his hand, he still plays great.

 

It took the coaching staff a few years to figure out the only place he doesn't excel is outside CB, but Butler is a great player!!

[krunk]

Adams hasn't really made any plays this year.

[chad72]

3 hours ago, krunk said:

I just say use more Cover 2 and blitz selectively.  Much less one on one coverage.  If it is one on one it should be off coverage .

 

That is what I told before the Pitt. game, we need to play more Tampa 2, given our personnel injuries to VD and Geathers, and play 3 safeties all the time when 2 strong safeties are included. One of the safeties plays like an ILB and we show more 4 man fronts, keep it simple and keep it in front and tackle well.  Blitz from the A gaps selectively, and throw in DL stunts with the blitz selectively.

 

In the Tampa 2 the safeties split out further to the sideline (than the Cover 2) and the MIKE drops back further in between the safeties (than the Cover 2). It almost requires a safety type coverage MIKE. The taller strong safety becomes the MIKE, and that is why Urlacher was successful in that coverage. The strong safety that is good with reading the keys to whether it is a run or a pass plays the MIKE, I would think that is Geathers now.

 

In other words, I agree, with a few tweaks.  

[krunk]

2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

That is what I told before the Pitt. game, we need to play more Tampa 2, given our personnel injuries to VD and Geathers, and play 3 safeties all the time when 2 strong safeties are included. One of the safeties plays like an ILB and we show more 4 man fronts, keep it simple and keep it in front and tackle well.  Blitz from the A gaps selectively, and throw in DL stunts with the blitz selectively.

 

In the Tampa 2 the safeties split out further to the sideline (than the Cover 2) and the MIKE drops back further in between the safeties (than the Cover 2). It almost requires a safety type coverage MIKE. The taller strong safety becomes the MIKE, and that is why Urlacher was successful in that coverage. The strong safety that is good with reading the keys to whether it is a run or a pass plays the MIKE, I would think that is Geathers now.

 

In other words, I agree, with a few tweaks.  

We have played one on one coverage against those guys like fools each time we've played them and it's perplexing.  It has been made very clear to not be the best approach and we fall in the trap door each time.   Best way to play Pitt is to take away the deep ball and force long drives. Play tight coverage and force Ben to throw into small windows.   That logic gets lost on Chuck and staff over and over against that opponent and it's weird!

[krunk]

5 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

That is what I told before the Pitt. game, we need to play more Tampa 2, given our personnel injuries to VD and Geathers, and play 3 safeties all the time when 2 strong safeties are included. One of the safeties plays like an ILB and we show more 4 man fronts, keep it simple and keep it in front and tackle well.  Blitz from the A gaps selectively, and throw in DL stunts with the blitz selectively.

 

In the Tampa 2 the safeties split out further to the sideline (than the Cover 2) and the MIKE drops back further in between the safeties (than the Cover 2). It almost requires a safety type coverage MIKE. The taller strong safety becomes the MIKE, and that is why Urlacher was successful in that coverage. The strong safety that is good with reading the keys to whether it is a run or a pass plays the MIKE, I would think that is Geathers now.

 

In other words, I agree, with a few tweaks.  

I think they get scared we won't do much of anything with a 4 man rush, but the blitz doesn' t do a whole lot either so mix it up.  More 4 man rush with a lower percentage of blitz selectively.

[krunk]

9 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

That is what I told before the Pitt. game, we need to play more Tampa 2, given our personnel injuries to VD and Geathers, and play 3 safeties all the time when 2 strong safeties are included. One of the safeties plays like an ILB and we show more 4 man fronts, keep it simple and keep it in front and tackle well.  Blitz from the A gaps selectively, and throw in DL stunts with the blitz selectively.

 

In the Tampa 2 the safeties split out further to the sideline (than the Cover 2) and the MIKE drops back further in between the safeties (than the Cover 2). It almost requires a safety type coverage MIKE. The taller strong safety becomes the MIKE, and that is why Urlacher was successful in that coverage. The strong safety that is good with reading the keys to whether it is a run or a pass plays the MIKE, I would think that is Geathers now.

 

In other words, I agree, with a few tweaks.  

Maybe they play more two deep if Geathers would have played.  Without him there's really nobody to play the middle of the field I guess.  Probably could have used Adams and Butler deep with Green on the tight end maybe but I'm not real clear if we ever tried that.

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, krunk said:

We have played one on one coverage against those guys like fools each time we've played them and it's perplexing.  It has been made very clear to not be the best approach and we fall in the trap door each time.   Best way to play Pitt is to take away the deep ball and force long drives. Play tight coverage and force Ben to throw into small windows.   That logic gets lost on Chuck and staff over and over against that opponent and it's weird!

I don't remember seeing much defensive adjustments under Dungy.  What was the cliche?  "We do what we do".  Maybe you and Chad are asking too much of an NFL coach.  Belichick probably adjusts the team game plan from week to week more than anybody.

[chad72]

13 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I don't remember seeing much defensive adjustments under Dungy.  What was the cliche?  "We do what we do".  Maybe you and Chad are asking too much of an NFL coach.  Belichick probably adjusts the team game plan from week to week more than anybody.

 

With Dungy and folks, it was more of a "they knew what they had and did not have the good man CBs to play anything but zone primarily". Not till Marlin Jackson and Kelvin Hayden coming along did we finally have physical man CBs to allow us to do a few more things on D in coverage.

 

Plus, they had the pass rushers to not have to blitz, and if teams had to double at least one of them and had an RB in, plus QB, they had 3 out there vs 7 in coverage. They played the numbers game which worked till they ran into an elite QB who picked apart the zones. So the "bend but don't break" became "bend and break" against elite QBs in the playoffs.

 

It is not a co-incidence that during our 2 SB runs, we beat Trent Green, Steve McNair, Rex Grossman, a young Joe Flacco, and a young Mark Sanchez. We played the game of our lives to beat Tom Brady barely, and then lost to Drew Brees who picked our Tampa 2 apart by being patient, he had seen it with Larry Coyer when Coyer was with the Bucs.

 

Hence, with Dungy, he knew he shouldn't put a square peg into a round role and so played it safe and hoped the other QB would make the mistake and had the pass rushers to count on. Dungy knew what Polian gave him, Polian drafted for the system in place which was easier to bring younger guys with speed along for, and did not try to overextend or change them (look what happened when Jason David played man for the Saints after leaving us). With Pagano, he does put his square pegs into round holes several times and does not have any pass rushers to count on. That is how I see it.

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

With Dungy and folks, it was more of a "they knew what they had and did not have the good man CBs to play anything but zone primarily". Not till Marlin Jackson and Kelvin Hayden coming along did we finally have physical man CBs to allow us to do a few more things on D in coverage.

 

Plus, they had the pass rushers to not have to blitz, and if teams had to double at least one of them and had an RB in, plus QB, they had 3 out there vs 7 in coverage. They played the numbers game which worked till they ran into an elite QB who picked apart the zones. So the "bend but don't break" became "bend and break" against elite QBs in the playoffs.

 

It is not a co-incidence that during our 2 SB runs, we beat Trent Green, Steve McNair, Rex Grossman, a young Joe Flacco, and a young Mark Sanchez. We played the game of our lives to beat Tom Brady barely, and then lost to Drew Brees who picked our Tampa 2 apart by being patient, he had seen it with Larry Coyer when Coyer was with the Bucs.

 

Hence, with Dungy, he knew he shouldn't put a square peg into a round role and so played it safe and hoped the other QB would make the mistake and had the pass rushers to count on. With Pagano, he does put his square pegs into round holes several times and does not have any pass rushers to count on. That is how I see it.

Good summary.

 

With the Colts D back then, they never took out Freeney or Mathis, who were pretty much pass rushers.  They built the defense with the idea to stop the big passing play, as Polian used to constantly refer to his most important stat, yards-per-pass attempt.  It gave up the pounding runs, and the soft zone underneath the MLB, but that was their identity.

 

I'm not sure what the current defense is trying to do.  Stop the pass?  Stop the run?  Attack the offense?   With the salary cap era, and a high priced QB, I think you have to choose one and do your best to mitigate the others.

[krunk]

37 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

With Dungy and folks, it was more of a "they knew what they had and did not have the good man CBs to play anything but zone primarily". Not till Marlin Jackson and Kelvin Hayden coming along did we finally have physical man CBs to allow us to do a few more things on D in coverage.

 

Plus, they had the pass rushers to not have to blitz, and if teams had to double at least one of them and had an RB in, plus QB, they had 3 out there vs 7 in coverage. They played the numbers game which worked till they ran into an elite QB who picked apart the zones. So the "bend but don't break" became "bend and break" against elite QBs in the playoffs.

 

It is not a co-incidence that during our 2 SB runs, we beat Trent Green, Steve McNair, Rex Grossman, a young Joe Flacco, and a young Mark Sanchez. We played the game of our lives to beat Tom Brady barely, and then lost to Drew Brees who picked our Tampa 2 apart by being patient, he had seen it with Larry Coyer when Coyer was with the Bucs.

 

Hence, with Dungy, he knew he shouldn't put a square peg into a round role and so played it safe and hoped the other QB would make the mistake and had the pass rushers to count on. Dungy knew what Polian gave him, Polian drafted for the system in place which was easier to bring younger guys with speed along for, and did not try to overextend or change them (look what happened when Jason David played man for the Saints after leaving us). With Pagano, he does put his square pegs into round holes several times and does not have any pass rushers to count on. That is how I see it.

The last time we beat Pitt was when we were playing that Old School Cover 2 defense.  Had better pass rushers then though.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

While I love Butler in the slot I think we need to stick Robinson there permanently . Draft a real #2 corner or sign one. 

 

Hell, if I'm being honest, I'd love to resign Butler and keep him as a safety. I'm really disgusted by Green's play back there Lol. If we want to win then you stick with the best player, and right now Butler is better @ safety than Green. 

[MacDee1975]

2 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

He's quietly been a very good player for the Colts, one of the few play makers that they have on defense.  He is what he is though, a slot corner.  He's just not a number one or two corner.  He has shown promise at safety though which could come more into play as he gets older and as a guy like Adams reach the end of his career.  Even with Geathers and Green they could use a third safety.

 

.....which appears to be very soon.

[MacDee1975]

30 minutes ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

While I love Butler in the slot I think we need to stick Robinson there permanently . Draft a real #2 corner or sign one. 

 

Hell, if I'm being honest, I'd love to resign Butler and keep him as a safety. I'm really disgusted by Green's play back there Lol. If we want to win then you stick with the best player, and right now Butler is better @ safety than Green. 

 

Yet another brilliant Grigson pick....using a 2 on TJ Green.

[twfish]

5 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

If I recall correctly, he wasn't that great in the slot last year.  This year, his play has been better.  He's made some plays while playing safety, too.  I wonder how his stats as a safety compare to his stats as a slot CB

I beleive it was the year before last that he was ranked as one of the best  Nickle CB's as well.

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

While I love Butler in the slot I think we need to stick Robinson there permanently . Draft a real #2 corner or sign one. 

 

Hell, if I'm being honest, I'd love to resign Butler and keep him as a safety. I'm really disgusted by Green's play back there Lol. If we want to win then you stick with the best player, and right now Butler is better @ safety than Green. 

I agree.  I like Butler permanently at safety if we can sign or draft a real #2 corner.  Keeping Robinson in the slot. Although they signed Robinson to be the No. 2 corner so it makes it pretty hard to move him to the slot with the money he is making.  If they keep him there then they would have to find another slot which is probably the most likely option. .  Butler and Adams at safety with Green eventually taking over for Adams. Green is a project player, we all know that, he is a great athlete who just needs a little more time.  I think Gaethers is a done deal at ILB for the remainder of this year and going forward.  

[Coltfreak]

5 hours ago, Jdubu said:

On the Brown coverage, that should have been 2 people around him not named Davis. Davis should have been covering the 2nd receiver to maximize coverage in the secondary. I just don't think that Pagano has a clue how to handle a defensive plan (still after 4+ years) and Manachino is just too new to get it all right in the first season, he needed a good mentor and Pagano doesn't seem to. We that person sadly. 

Ive been saying put VD on the 2 and double the one all yr... even longer..  Not sure why they don't do this... NE does it.... it works great... but that would be round peg round hole and we are a square peg round hole coached team

[krunk]

33 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I agree.  I like Butler permanently at safety if we can sign or draft a real #2 corner.  Keeping Robinson in the slot. Although they signed Robinson to be the No. 2 corner so it makes it pretty hard to move him to the slot with the money he is making.  If they keep him there then they would have to find another slot which is probably the most likely option. .  Butler and Adams at safety with Green eventually taking over for Adams. Green is a project player, we all know that, he is a great athlete who just needs a little more time.  I think Gaethers is a done deal at ILB for the remainder of this year and going forward.  

Butler at safety next year, or I even thought closer at moving Geathers to ILB and drafting a top tier safety.  Maybe the kid Adams from LSU.

[richard pallo]

41 minutes ago, krunk said:

Butler at safety next year, or I even thought closer at moving Geathers to ILB and drafting a top tier safety.  Maybe the kid Adams from LSU.

This is exactly what drives me crazy about drafting project players in the early rounds.  You don't know how long it's going to take, if ever, to see if these players can be starters and big contributors to your team.  And it effects how you are going to draft the subsequent year.  Do we still have a need or not?  Five games left at least.  Let's hope the young guys who are playing and being counted on to help us win now can continue to improve and show us they can be solid starters at their position next year. 

[21isSuperman]

2 hours ago, twfish said:

I beleive it was the year before last that he was ranked as one of the best  Nickle CB's as well.

I think so, too.  A couple of years ago, he was ranked as one of the better nickel CBs in the league.  Last year, he wasn't so great.  This year, he's turned things around and is playing well again.

[Gavin]

Haven't really been concerned about him all year. He has really been a solid pick up. Robinson as has been expected has been the one that's a mess

[Carlos Danger]

I think we re-sign him, despite the redundancy with Robinson... 

 

I think that the staff will keep trying to make Robinson the #2, even though he is clearly better in the slot. Butler has position flex and we aren't super deep at safety or corner. 

 

It will inevitably come down to contract negotiations, but he is proving his worth this year. It could work out better if we draft a man corner for the #2 spot and put Robinson in the slot, but I can definitely still see a corner drafted this off-season, even if Butler comes back. 

[throwing BBZ]

 

 We have seen Butler stink it up plenty since he has been here that is for sure.
 But it looks like all that experience has made him a very perceptive player.
  He is one guy that has been used well so far this season.

[krunk]

On 11/29/2016 at 6:31 PM, richard pallo said:

This is exactly what drives me crazy about drafting project players in the early rounds.  You don't know how long it's going to take, if ever, to see if these players can be starters and big contributors to your team.  And it effects how you are going to draft the subsequent year.  Do we still have a need or not?  Five games left at least.  Let's hope the young guys who are playing and being counted on to help us win now can continue to improve and show us they can be solid starters at their position next year. 

No I think Green will be okay once he fully understands what's going on back there.  The talent is evident.   I was speaking on drafting another safety(like Adams from LSU)would probably be a necessity if you move Geathers to ILB.  I'm cool with that if you can find a very good safety prospect.   If not that then the second option is to leave Butler back there.  My only issue is between him and TJ there's no real heavy handed thumper aspect to their games.   TJ will stick his nose in there, but I think his athletic traits are more in line to the coverage aspect of things. I'm anxious to see what TJ looks like with another full offseason of study and hitting the weight room.