Andrew Luck Overrated?

[akcolt]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Russell Wilson is in the 5-6 range. But Forgotten by some.
 This should be a season where Andrew gets his head out, and throws many more balls, More Accurately,

 inside of 15 yards. This would vault him securely into the top 10 for post 2016 ratings.
  GM`s are on the kool-aid. Even with all the "nice tackle" nonsense from Luck, the Players put him at 92. Hmmm!
 

Now, we have 1 WR with size.
No TE who can get downfield.
And 2 runts at WR who can`t block in the running game.
And one RB we can count on?
A totally unproven O-Line.
It isn`t that certain our Offense will produce well against playoff caliber teams.

Are there 10 QB's in the NFL you'd take over Luck?

 

As far as his 92 ranking like it means anything.  That's for last season not that bad for 7 games. The year before playing the full season he was #7 in the same poll go figure. He was coming off 2 straight years.voted #1 among players 25 and under. 

 

Really only having on WR with "size" is going to hurt us? NE only had 1 WR over 5'11 last year. They seemed fine. I'm not sure who you want our WR's to block if it's DB's downfield. They can get in the way enough to help each other and the RB's out. We may have issues if we start using them to take on DL. 

 

The smallest of our WR's has a 4 year start to his career that is as good as it gets. His 4413 yards are just behind Rice's first 4 year totals and better than players like Bruce, Owens, T Brown, Harrison, Wayne, C Johnson, Julio. Dez. I could go on.

 

The game Luck had with Chud  last season vs the eventual Super Bowl Champs and the best D in the league.  The O seemed to be able to move the ball. If I recall the O moved it ok vs. the runners up too. 

 

Why do you think we are starting an OL that is totally unproven? The left side Castonzo and Mewhort are experienced and we don't know who will win the spots on the right side. If I were guessing I'd bet the only rookie starting week 1 was the 18th player picked in the draft, yes unproven but chances are he will be a big upgrade at C. 

 

TE can't get downfield? One RB? We shall see but seems like seems like a Negative Nancy before we even get going. 

 

 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Russell Wilson is in the 5-6 range. But Forgotten by some.
 This should be a season where Andrew gets his head out, and throws many more balls, More Accurately,

 inside of 15 yards. This would vault him securely into the top 10 for post 2016 ratings.
  GM`s are on the kool-aid. Even with all the "nice tackle" nonsense from Luck, the Players put him at 92. Hmmm!
 

Now, we have 1 WR with size.
No TE who can get downfield.
And 2 runts at WR who can`t block in the running game.
And one RB we can count on?
A totally unproven O-Line.
It isn`t that certain our Offense will produce well against playoff caliber teams.

 

Yeah,   I commented elsewhere in the thread that I absolutely should've included Russell Wilson when I mentioned Cam.       Brain fart on my part!    Wilson is hugely under-rated on this board...

 

As for the Colts offense,   I'm more optimistic than not based on 3 things...   Chudzinski,  Schottenheimer and Philbin....       that's a LOT of brain power on the offensive side of the ball.       We haven't had that the last few years.       But I think these three will maximize what we have.....       at least,   that's my hope......

 

 

[MR. Blueblood]

16 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yeah,   I commented elsewhere in the thread that I absolutely should've included Russell Wilson when I mentioned Cam.       Brain fart on my part!    Wilson is hugely under-rated on this board...

 

As for the Colts offense,   I'm more optimistic than not based on 3 things...   Chudzinski,  Schottenheimer and Philbin....       that's a LOT of brain power on the offensive side of the ball.       We haven't had that the last few years.       But I think these three will maximize what we have.....       at least,   that's my hope......

 

 

I think a lot of that has to do with the overall talent of the Seahawks.  Whether people are right in thinking so or not is another discussion, but some would/could argue that Wilson's success in the league is about 50% him and 50% percent the team around him.  It's much easier to have success at QB when you have one of the top Ds year in and year out, and had the best RB in the league.  We'll see how much the loss of Beast Mode will effect Wilson's play this season when teams don't have to respect the run as much.

 

Personally, I feel that Wilson does some great things on the field, but I do feel that put on this Colts roster he would struggle much much more than Luck ever has.  No way to back that up with any facts obviously, just my humble opinion.

[Defjamz26]

19 hours ago, Gavin said:

Except that its not really...Unless someone just believes them because they are NFL personnel so they must be right....Which is just a foolish argument when used(Not saying you do or would). The majority of those 26 nfl personnel will most likely tell you its based on Lucks upside and not his overall current body of work/QB intelligence/accuracy. Amazing is a word to describe players like Watt, Rodgers, Brady, and a select few others. Luck will be there one day. He showed he is capable last year but consistency is the game of the game when it comes to amazing in my opinion

I'm not saying that they must be right but if you're looking at what opinions to use to validate a player's skill, then the opinions of NFL players and personnel are the ones that hold the most weight. Players and personnel can be wrong, just like a bunch of people were wrong about Manziel, but they are the "experts " on the subject.

 

I'm more inclined to believe that Luck is good rather than overrated since that's what the "experts" say. You have some players and guys who will say good things about anyone in person, but when the anonymous polls are taken and people speak freely, they're usually on point.

[NewColtsFan]

16 minutes ago, MR. Blueblood said:

I think a lot of that has to do with the overall talent of the Seahawks.  Whether people are right in thinking so or not is another discussion, but some would/could argue that Wilson's success in the league is about 50% him and 50% percent the team around him.  It's much easier to have success at QB when you have one of the top Ds year in and year out, and had the best RB in the league.  We'll see how much the loss of Beast Mode will effect Wilson's play this season when teams don't have to respect the run as much.

 

Personally, I feel that Wilson does some great things on the field, but I do feel that put on this Colts roster he would struggle much much more than Luck ever has.  No way to back that up with any facts obviously, just my humble opinion.

 

I made the same arguments about Wilson his first two years.     But he's been asked to do more every year.   And he's delivered.        More pass attempts,   higher completion percentage,   successful at running the ball.

 

Yes, he's helped by a great running game and a very good defense.     But Wilson has gotten better and is helping his team more and more.      I think he's the real deal.

 

[tvturner]

The only QBs better than Luck are Ben, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Healthy Romo. I don't care what anyone else thinks.

[MR. Blueblood]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I made the same arguments about Wilson his first two years.     But he's been asked to do more every year.   And he's delivered.        More pass attempts,   higher completion percentage,   successful at running the ball.

 

Yes, he's helped by a great running game and a very good defense.     But Wilson has gotten better and is helping his team more and more.      I think he's the real deal.

 

All very true.

 

Being asked to do more is stil nothing compared to being asked to carry most of the load.  When Wilson is asked to be THE GUY, put this team on his back week after week, carry them to wins, and then delivers I will be a lot more willing to consider him the real deal.  Until then he's still more of a glorified game manager to me.

[ColtsBlueFL]

The problem was, Andrew was 2-5 last year and playing poorly before he was pulled for injury. Everyone remembers that.  They are skeptical until the O line proves they can protect Luck, and Luck is able to reverse his bad play after his protection is established.  Even many football folks on NFL radio (Sirius XM) are leery and wanting to see it (Luck returning to form) first before projecting the Colts as the favorite for the AFC South crown.

 

 

[Gavin]

18 minutes ago, MR. Blueblood said:

All very true.

 

Being asked to do more is stil nothing compared to being asked to carry most of the load.  When Wilson is asked to be THE GUY, put this team on his back week after week, carry them to wins, and then delivers I will be a lot more willing to consider him the real deal.  Until then he's still more of a glorified game manager to me.

Your downplaying how good Wilson is because the Seahawks have a competent management and has shown they can draft well compared to the circus show we have as management

[akcolt]

2 hours ago, FeedCrief said:

The only QBs better than Luck are Ben, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Healthy Romo. I don't care what anyone else thinks.

Then you don't need a forum at all. You opinion is the only one that matters Take your ball and go home 

[akcolt]

Just now, akcolt said:

Then you don't need a forum at all. Your opinion is the only one that matters Take your ball and go home 

 

[JPFolks]

22 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

It's "First Take"......    you know,  Skip Bayless.      That's his issue.     This has been discussed for years here.

 

We've beaten this dead horse far more than it deserves.

 

The only good thing about this is that Skip is leaving ESPN very soon (I think it's after the NBA finals in Mid-June)  for Fox Sports 1.      FS1 is perfect for Skip.      It's a style over substance network.     That's where he belongs.

 

Compared to ESPN? You can't be serious.  ESPN is politics over substance exclusively.  FS1 doesn't really have a sports programming lineup yet, though Cowherd (who I agree with about 50% of the time) at least takes controversial stances that sometimes are original and aren't always a particular political dogma (even though he's open about being a leftist as well).  The best sports show by a million miles is Dan Patrick on NBCSN at 9am-12noon.  Everyone else at ESPN and Fox rip him off for any good ideas they seem to have and he scoops them and creates more hard news than both times two.  If you don't listen or watch, it's a light hearted, good natured, non political show anyone can enjoy.  How it's on NBC is miraculous, but they seem to let him do his own thing.  

[LockeDown]

Brady was drafted in 2000.  The Pats overall defensive standings in the league since then per http://www.pro-football-reference.com/.  

Patriots (Brady)                                                 Colts (Luck)

2001 - #6

2003 - #1

2004 - #2

2006 - #2

2007 - #4

2008 - #8

2009 - #5

2010 - #8

2012 - #9                                                            2012 - #21

2013 - #10                                                          2013 - #9  

2014 - #8                                                            2014 - #19

2015 - #10                                                          2015 - #25  

 

*2002 - #17, 2005 - #17, 2011- #15

 

How is it fair to compare Luck with a guy that virtually NEVER had a bad defense while he has only had 1 good defense and it was barely top 10?  Do I even need to mention how bad our Oline has been all 4 years?  Who had the best coach?  This is why you aren't comparing apples to apples.    

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, JPFolks said:

Compared to ESPN? You can't be serious.  ESPN is politics over substance exclusively.  FS1 doesn't really have a sports programming lineup yet, though Cowherd (who I agree with about 50% of the time) at least takes controversial stances that sometimes are original and aren't always a particular political dogma (even though he's open about being a leftist as well).  The best sports show by a million miles is Dan Patrick on NBCSN at 9am-12noon.  Everyone else at ESPN and Fox rip him off for any good ideas they seem to have and he scoops them and creates more hard news than both times two.  If you don't listen or watch, it's a light hearted, good natured, non political show anyone can enjoy.  How it's on NBC is miraculous, but they seem to let him do his own thing.  

 

JP.....

 

I pay little attention to the ESPN chat shows.

 

My bread and butter from them are SportsCenter....    their various NFL shows....    Between the Lines....     their chat shows are simply distractions designed to try and hold an audience.      I don't care about them.    ESPN is a 24/7/365 network with nearly a half-dozen channels.     They've got to fill-up their networks with something.    I'm not going to like everything.

 

But if you stay focused on their information shows,   then ESPN is a great place to hang-out and learn.

 

Yes,  I can be serious.

 

 

[jameszeigler834]

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 11:12 PM, Gavin said:

Depending on how you see him he can be overrated. Its all in the eye of the beholder. Right now I'd put the following ahead of Luck in no particular order:

 

Rodgers

Brady

Roethlisberger

Healthy Romo

Andy Dalton Healthy

Carson Palmer

Drew Brees

 

An argument can be made for Eli Manning. After that I think you can put Luck with possibly a couple others closing in on him in 2-3 years if they continue to grow as QB's but right now I'd put him in my top 7-8-9 comfortably . Still top 10 when healthy but still a lot of room for improvement....But I expect some of that big improvement comes this year. It will have to. Not necessarily about numbers but decision making and a few other little things that will go a long way

I agree except for Dalton when healthy he is way better than Dalton.

[HectorRoberts]

Yes and no. He hasn't been consistent and as dominiating as he was expected to be. With that said he does have 3 1/2 season under his belt, this year I expect him to have his best season yet.  

[bleevit]

12 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

Not when the supporting cast is taken into account. That is like sayiing Manning played better than Russel Wilson last year because Manning won the SB

That's kinda what I mean. You're always measuring apples to oranges.

[ColtsBTM12]

A while back I decided to boycott this show entirely. It's just too frustrating to watch. Skip obviously has some serious beef with Andrew. The good outweighs the bad by so much but all Skip wants to talk about is the bad. Meanwhile, he can continue raving about his boys RG3, Manziel, and Tebow.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 hours ago, MR. Blueblood said:

I think a lot of that has to do with the overall talent of the Seahawks.  Whether people are right in thinking so or not is another discussion, but some would/could argue that Wilson's success in the league is about 50% him and 50% percent the team around him.  It's much easier to have success at QB when you have one of the top Ds year in and year out, and had the best RB in the league.  We'll see how much the loss of Beast Mode will effect Wilson's play this season when teams don't have to respect the run as much.

 

Personally, I feel that Wilson does some great things on the field, but I do feel that put on this Colts roster he would struggle much much more than Luck ever has.  No way to back that up with any facts obviously, just my humble opinion.

I totally agree. Having said that both Andrew and Wilson are both Very Good and would make my Top 7, the other 5 being Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Ben, and Cam. I would one day love to see Andrew play on a team where his Defense is as great as the Seahawks Defense has been 2013. Cam's Defense was Great as well last season.

[Myles]

6 hours ago, ColtsBTM12 said:

A while back I decided to boycott this show entirely. It's just too frustrating to watch. Skip obviously has some serious beef with Andrew. The good outweighs the bad by so much but all Skip wants to talk about is the bad. Meanwhile, he can continue raving about his boys RG3, Manziel, and Tebow.

I still haven't witnessed "the good".   The show is awful.   Skips a * who can't get over his personal feelings and Steve is a big loud racist who is out of touch.

 

It was a better show when it wasn't just 2 blowhards whining and complaining the whole show.

 

[Valpo2004]

On 5/22/2016 at 11:26 PM, Defjamz26 said:

FYI Skip Bayless isn't even in the segment. 

 

But the the important thing was when the guy said they polled 26 NFL personnel and they all had Luck top 5. And all the players in the league think he's amazing. Those are the only opinions that matter anyways.

 

I think that's the most important thing right there.  A lot of people get too caught up in playoff wins and Superbowls.  We're talking about a significant number of people who actually think Trent Dilfer was a better QB then Dan Marino because Superbowl.

 

At the very least NFL GM's, Scouts, and coaches have an awareness that football is a team game.  That sort of obvious knowledge seems to be lacking from the general public.  

 

Now one would be biased if they where not willing to admit that Luck had a crappy season even when he was playing last season.  

 

But they would also be biased if they forget that the year before he led the NFL in TD passes.  That doesn't just happen by accident. 

[Restored]

You lost me at First Take...

[CF4L]

While I think Andrew Luck is very good he was touted as being better than Manning(hence why the Colts dumped Manning to begin with and well he was younger and cheaper) and he could be but I don't see it.

So compared to that yes I would find him overrated.

 

I think he's very good but he also throws a lot of picks, holds onto the ball a little too long etc. 

 

[Defjamz26]

5 hours ago, CF4L said:

While I think Andrew Luck is very good he was touted as being better than Manning(hence why the Colts dumped Manning to begin with and well he was younger and cheaper) and he could be but I don't see it.

So compared to that yes I would find him overrated.

 

I think he's very good but he also throws a lot of picks, holds onto the ball a little too long etc. 

 

Brett Favre also threw a lot of interceptions. Peyton choked in the playoffs often, Eli throws a lot of picks, all the top guys have their flaws.

 

I can't say I've ever seen a game where Luck cost the team the game though. The funny thing is that he protects the ball well against top defense like the Seahawks and Broncos. Yeah he makes some bone headed throws but I've never seen a game where we've got a shot but he turns it over. You could maybe say the 2014 Eagles game but that was also a terrible play call and an even worse no call on a pass Int on T.Y.

 

His INTS are fine if he's going to be like Favre who also threw a lot of TDs as well. I'll take 20 INTs if he gives us 40 TDs like he did in 2014.

[MR. Blueblood]

On 5/22/2016 at 7:30 PM, Gavin said:

Your downplaying how good Wilson is because the Seahawks have a competent management and has shown they can draft well compared to the circus show we have as management

I'm not downplaying how good Wilson is, he's just fine for what he's asked to do.

 

He's not asked to be the guy to go out and win games for the Seahawks.  He's had a top 5 D and one of the best RBs in the league since he stepped into the league.  That allows Wilson the luxury of not having to carry his team week in and week out and win games.

 

Would I love for Luck to have the roster that Wilson has the luxury of playing with?  Absolutely

Do I think Luck would've/could've won a SB or 2 with that roster?  Absolutely

Do I think Wilson would've/could've won a SB with the Colts roster?  Absolutely Not

Do I think Wilson would've/could've had the same level of success if he was here instead of Luck?  Absolutely Not

 

You may say I'm downplaying how good he is because of competent management, and that's fine, it's your opinion that you are entitled to.  My opinion is that Wilson was gifted an ideal situation, a situation that has afforded him a certain level of success, a level of success that I seriously doubt he would have had with most other teams in the league.  Of course, we'll never know this because you can't go back in time and draft him to another team.  But your opinion is no more valid than mine.

[RomanianColtsFan]

Overrated or not he is our team's Quarterback and we aren't not going to have one that is better than him anytime soon.

[Colts_Fan12]

Everyone saying Romo is better then Luck healthy or not he is not guy is a damn choke artist and is made of glass 

[Colts_Fan12]

41 minutes ago, MR. Blueblood said:

I'm not downplaying how good Wilson is, he's just fine for what he's asked to do.

 

He's not asked to be the guy to go out and win games for the Seahawks.  He's had a top 5 D and one of the best RBs in the league since he stepped into the league.  That allows Wilson the luxury of not having to carry his team week in and week out and win games.

 

Would I love for Luck to have the roster that Wilson has the luxury of playing with?  Absolutely

Do I think Luck would've/could've won a SB or 2 with that roster?  Absolutely

Do I think Wilson would've/could've won a SB with the Colts roster?  Absolutely Not

Do I think Wilson would've/could've had the same level of success if he was here instead of Luck?  Absolutely Not

 

You may say I'm downplaying how good he is because of competent management, and that's fine, it's your opinion that you are entitled to.  My opinion is that Wilson was gifted an ideal situation, a situation that has afforded him a certain level of success, a level of success that I seriously doubt he would have had with most other teams in the league.  Of course, we'll never know this because you can't go back in time and draft him to another team.  But your opinion is no more valid than mine.

Great post!!

[BlueShoe]

A lot of the responses in this thread reminds me just how stupid people really are.

 

Jesus people. Luck has had no offensive line, no running game, and no defense. Yet he has still put up numbers that most quarterbacks would sell their soul to the devil for.

 

And to the dude who put Dalton ahead of Luck ; just wow brother. Wow!

[Jim H.]

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 11:12 PM, Gavin said:

Depending on how you see him he can be overrated. Its all in the eye of the beholder. Right now I'd put the following ahead of Luck in no particular order:

 

Rodgers

Brady

Roethlisberger

Healthy Romo

Andy Dalton Healthy

Carson Palmer

Drew Brees

 

An argument can be made for Eli Manning. After that I think you can put Luck with possibly a couple others closing in on him in 2-3 years if they continue to grow as QB's but right now I'd put him in my top 7-8-9 comfortably . Still top 10 when healthy but still a lot of room for improvement....But I expect some of that big improvement comes this year. It will have to. Not necessarily about numbers but decision making and a few other little things that will go a long way

Carson Palmer?  Andy Dalton?  Romo?  Brees?  Wooo.

[ColtsBTM12]

On 5/23/2016 at 8:46 AM, Myles said:

I still haven't witnessed "the good".   The show is awful.   Skips a * who can't get over his personal feelings and Steve is a big loud racist who is out of touch.

 

It was a better show when it wasn't just 2 blowhards whining and complaining the whole show.

 

I meant "the good" with Andrew Luck, not the show. 

[Myles]

13 hours ago, ColtsBTM12 said:

I meant "the good" with Andrew Luck, not the show. 

Sorry about that.   After reading your post again, I see where I made my mistake.  

 

[AndyColt]

On 5/24/2016 at 8:50 PM, BlueShoe said:

 

 

When they finally get the O-line complete Andrew Luck will put up some sick A$$ numbers..... 

[CF4L]

On 5/23/2016 at 7:38 PM, Defjamz26 said:

Brett Favre also threw a lot of interceptions. Peyton choked in the playoffs often, Eli throws a lot of picks, all the top guys have their flaws.

 

I can't say I've ever seen a game where Luck cost the team the game though. The funny thing is that he protects the ball well against top defense like the Seahawks and Broncos. Yeah he makes some bone headed throws but I've never seen a game where we've got a shot but he turns it over. You could maybe say the 2014 Eagles game but that was also a terrible play call and an even worse no call on a pass Int on T.Y.

 

His INTS are fine if he's going to be like Favre who also threw a lot of TDs as well. I'll take 20 INTs if he gives us 40 TDs like he did in 2014.

 

Hmm I never said they didn't have flaws but I find it interesting around here that Colts fans especially those who claim to consider Manning a Colt forever still refer to him as a choker even though he won 2 SBs. They're also the same people that are upset he didn't retire a Colt(maybe not in your case but in others yes)

 

So all those picks vs the Pats didn't cost the Colts? He would've costed the Colts vs the Chiefs if the Chiefs didn't collapse. 

 

He's good but he was touted as better than Manning ever will be that's a very unrealistic expectation who knows maybe he will be but as of now I don't see it. That's how I find him overrated. I never expected that of him to begin with as long as he's good enough to win an SB which I think he is that's enough. I'll be curious how much of a pass he gets if the Colts never make an SB or win one while he's QB though....

[2006Coltsbestever]

15 minutes ago, CF4L said:

 

Hmm I never said they didn't have flaws but I find it interesting around here that Colts fans especially those who claim to consider Manning a Colt forever still refer to him as a choker even though he won 2 SBs. They're also the same people that are upset he didn't retire a Colt(maybe not in your case but in others yes)

 

So all those picks vs the Pats didn't cost the Colts? He would've costed the Colts vs the Chiefs if the Chiefs didn't collapse. 

 

He's good but he was touted as better than Manning ever will be that's a very unrealistic expectation who knows maybe he will be but as of now I don't see it. That's how I find him overrated. I never expected that of him to begin with as long as he's good enough to win an SB which I think he is that's enough. I'll be curious how much of a pass he gets if the Colts never make an SB or win one while he's QB though....

Chiefs collapsed because Andrew figured them out. It took him a Half but he did it. He has only played 4 seasons so he has plenty of time to win a SB. He has already made a Final 4 and that is great for a resume. The team he lost too was led by Tom Brady and they won the SB so no shame in that, Russell Wilson lost to the same team as well 2 weeks later.

[CF4L]

44 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Chiefs collapsed because Andrew figured them out. It took him a Half but he did it. He has only played 4 seasons so he has plenty of time to win a SB. He has already made a Final 4 and that is great for a resume. The team he lost too was led by Tom Brady and they won the SB so no shame in that, Russell Wilson lost to the same team as well 2 weeks later.

 

 

I just find the hypocrisy pretty amusing when it comes to criticizing Luck around here. The Chiefs seemed to have a bunch of players injured every five minutes in the second half as well. However in the 1st half people were sweating bullets over the Colts playing that badly.

[2006Coltsbestever]

31 minutes ago, CF4L said:

 

 

I just find the hypocrisy pretty amusing when it comes to criticizing Luck around here. The Chiefs seemed to have a bunch of players injured every five minutes in the second half as well. However in the 1st half people were sweating bullets over the Colts playing that badly.

Nah we had them the whole way. I told a friend of mine when we were down 38-10 we had the ol Chiefs right where we wanted them (sarcasm). I actually did what is funny and looked what happened. Just another walk in the park for Andrew!