Andrew Luck Overrated?

[AKB]

Apologies if already posted, couldn't find it in the forums.

 

 

[crazycolt1]

ESPN is a total joke.

[AKB]

The one guy defending Andrew bringing up the fact that there are multiple factors in play kind of  hit it right. We all know what conditions Andrew was playing under. 

[BOTT]

I sas it was first take and decided not to watch

[NewColtsFan]

52 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

Apologies if already posted, couldn't find it in the forums.

 

 

 

It's "First Take"......    you know,  Skip Bayless.      That's his issue.     This has been discussed for years here.

 

We've beaten this dead horse far more than it deserves.

 

The only good thing about this is that Skip is leaving ESPN very soon (I think it's after the NBA finals in Mid-June)  for Fox Sports 1.      FS1 is perfect for Skip.      It's a style over substance network.     That's where he belongs.

 

[Gavin]

Depending on how you see him he can be overrated. Its all in the eye of the beholder. Right now I'd put the following ahead of Luck in no particular order:

 

Rodgers

Brady

Roethlisberger

Healthy Romo

Andy Dalton Healthy

Carson Palmer

Drew Brees

 

An argument can be made for Eli Manning. After that I think you can put Luck with possibly a couple others closing in on him in 2-3 years if they continue to grow as QB's but right now I'd put him in my top 7-8-9 comfortably . Still top 10 when healthy but still a lot of room for improvement....But I expect some of that big improvement comes this year. It will have to. Not necessarily about numbers but decision making and a few other little things that will go a long way

[crazycolt1]

25 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

It's "First Take"......    you know,  Skip Bayless.      That's his issue.     This has been discussed for years here.

 

We've beaten this dead horse far more than it deserves.

 

The only good thing about this is that Skip is leaving ESPN very soon (I think it's after the NBA finals in Mid-June)  for Fox Sports 1.      FS1 is perfect for Skip.      It's a style over substance network.     That's where he belongs.

 

Skip need to go anywhere he can do what he did before putting his argumentative personal opinions in front of a camera. He was an award winning columnist and was at least credible then.

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Depending on how you see him he can be overrated. Its all in the eye of the beholder. Right now I'd put the following ahead of Luck in no particular order:

 

Rodgers

Brady

Roethlisberger

Healthy Romo

Andy Dalton Healthy

Carson Palmer

Drew Brees

 

An argument can be made for Eli Manning. After that I think you can put Luck with possibly a couple others closing in on him in 2-3 years if they continue to grow as QB's but right now I'd put him in my top 7-8-9 comfortably . Still top 10 when healthy but still a lot of room for improvement....But I expect some of that big improvement comes this year. It will have to. Not necessarily about numbers but decision making and a few other little things that will go a long way

It wont be too long until he surpasses most of these just due to age.

[RockThatBlue]

I think Skip Bayless is overrated.

 

Personally, anybody who thinks a player who has damn near been carrying the team on his back for four years, 3 playoff wins in his first 3 years, is a complete *.

[Defjamz26]

FYI Skip Bayless isn't even in the segment. 

 

But the the important thing was when the guy said they polled 26 NFL personnel and they all had Luck top 5. And all the players in the league think he's amazing. Those are the only opinions that matter anyways.

[2006Coltsbestever]

19 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Depending on how you see him he can be overrated. Its all in the eye of the beholder. Right now I'd put the following ahead of Luck in no particular order:

 

Rodgers

Brady

Roethlisberger

Healthy Romo

Andy Dalton Healthy

Carson Palmer

Drew Brees

 

An argument can be made for Eli Manning. After that I think you can put Luck with possibly a couple others closing in on him in 2-3 years if they continue to grow as QB's but right now I'd put him in my top 7-8-9 comfortably . Still top 10 when healthy but still a lot of room for improvement....But I expect some of that big improvement comes this year. It will have to. Not necessarily about numbers but decision making and a few other little things that will go a long way

I would take Luck over Dalton, Romo, and Palmer. Palmer had a terrific season last year but I would still take Luck over him. Brady, Brees, and Ben are better but they are getting old. Rodgers is the best right now IMO.

[JRnINDY]

I would think if 32 GM's got to select a current player to build their team around taking into account age, upside etc. that Luck would be the #1 choice for 95% of them.

[Smonroe]

I think a lot of you didn't watch the video.   Skip Bayless wasn't on the show.

 

It was a good discussion, valid points all around.  If that's the new First Take I may start watching.  Skip and Stephen A got old fast.

 

The question of what is elite was interesting to me.  Do you have to be in a SB, win one, etc?  Eli won two but they didn't consider him elite.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

Skip wasn't on the show but he has always said Andrew is overrated. Having said that he oddly enough thought Andrew's ranking of #92 was ridiculous and that he should be much higher. He said that on one of the shows that was on right after Andrew's ranking.

[Gavin]

2 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

FYI Skip Bayless isn't even in the segment. 

 

But the the important thing was when the guy said they polled 26 NFL personnel and they all had Luck top 5. And all the players in the league think he's amazing. Those are the only opinions that matter anyways.

Except that its not really...Unless someone just believes them because they are NFL personnel so they must be right....Which is just a foolish argument when used(Not saying you do or would). The majority of those 26 nfl personnel will most likely tell you its based on Lucks upside and not his overall current body of work/QB intelligence/accuracy. Amazing is a word to describe players like Watt, Rodgers, Brady, and a select few others. Luck will be there one day. He showed he is capable last year but consistency is the game of the game when it comes to amazing in my opinion

[Gavin]

Will Cain was pretty well spot on with his overall argument(Though I don't think he used the best examples when using QBR) I don't think he is outside the top 10 but 7-10 range depending on how you feel about Dalton and Rivers and E Manning

[NewColtsFan]

48 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Depending on how you see him he can be overrated. Its all in the eye of the beholder. Right now I'd put the following ahead of Luck in no particular order:

 

Rodgers

Brady

Roethlisberger

Healthy Romo

Andy Dalton Healthy

Carson Palmer

Drew Brees

 

An argument can be made for Eli Manning. After that I think you can put Luck with possibly a couple others closing in on him in 2-3 years if they continue to grow as QB's but right now I'd put him in my top 7-8-9 comfortably . Still top 10 when healthy but still a lot of room for improvement....But I expect some of that big improvement comes this year. It will have to. Not necessarily about numbers but decision making and a few other little things that will go a long way

 

So you put Andy Dalton ON the list and Cam Newton is NOT on the list?!?

 

Really?

 

[Gavin]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

So you put Andy Dalton ON the list and Cam Newton is NOT on the list?!?

 

Really?

 

I usually forget 1 on these type of lists........Ill just borrow a line from an old Britney Spears song (and title of the song) and say.....Oops I did it again! But yes Newton to....Also Dalton has a legit case...Certainly gets way to much heat on these boards when his name usually comes up

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

So you put Andy Dalton ON the list and Cam Newton is NOT on the list?!?

 

Really?

 

No Russell Wilson either?? I was thinking the same thing. Andrew is definitely Top 10 though.

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

No Russell Wilson either?? I was thinking the same thing. Andrew is definitely Top 10 though.

 

Good catch!      I knew I was missing one too!

 

DOH!!!       That one is on me!!          

[Gavin]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

Good catch!      I knew I was missing one too!

 

DOH!!!       That one is on me!!          

I have Wilson and Luck kinda jockeying for position between the two. To me its closer than it ever has been between the two (Though to me its always been close. Hawks just needed to turn Wilson loose to show that he can put up big numbers. Now its about showing he can consistently do it....I'm sure he will if healthy)

[BOTT]

10 minutes ago, Gavin said:

I usually forget 1 on these type of lists........Ill just borrow a line from an old Britney Spears song (and title of the song) and say.....Oops I did it again! But yes Newton to....Also Dalton has a legit case...Certainly gets way to much heat on these boards when his name usually comes up

No,he doesn't 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Good catch!      I knew I was missing one too!

 

DOH!!!       That one is on me!!          

Yeah when it comes to Top 10 I guess the names that should probably be mentioned are Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Ben, Cam, Wilson, and Andrew. Eli has won 2 SB's so you almost have to put him in the Top 10, Romo too, and based on last season Palmer is in this mix. That is 10 I just named. I would take Andrew over Dalton definitely. Flacco is proven with a SB win but I don't see him as a Top 10 guy as I don't see Dalton either as Top 10.

[Gavin]

Just now, BOTT said:

No,he doesn't 

Great argument

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Great argument

Dalton has never won a Playoff game, that would be my argument. I know your response was to Bott but that is one big reason why I would take Andrew over Dalton. Dalton isn't clutch, Andrew is.

[BOTT]

8 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Great argument

 

It would be like arguing with someone who thinks the world is flat.

[loudnproudcolt]

54 minutes ago, JRnINDY said:

I would think if 32 GM's got to select a current player to build their team around taking into account age, upside etc. that Luck would be the #1 choice for 95% of them.

NFL.com just die this I believe last week, and had 5 former scouts or GM's and they talked about what QB they would pick as their cornerstone. Even with last year's disaster, 4 out of 5 I believe chose Luck.

[Everyone]

I'll be glad when the season starts and Luck puts this argument to bed....

[Gavin]

27 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Dalton has never won a Playoff game, that would be my argument. I know your response was to Bott but that is one big reason why I would take Andrew over Dalton. Dalton isn't clutch, Andrew is.

He's played bad in the post season I agree. He needs to get at least that first win but I also wont hold a handful of games against him. I took into account his whole career to date. It also took Manning a few years to win his first playoff game http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00/gamelog/post/

[Gavin]

17 minutes ago, BOTT said:

 

It would be like arguing with someone who thinks the world is flat.

Well I'm sure you don't think the earth is flat......But still I have Dalton just ahead of Luck

[Dark Superman]

Andrew Luck

 

- Never had an offensive line.

- Never had a running game.

- Never had a top 5 defense.

- Has Ryan Grigson as his GM.

 

 

[akcolt]

I'm not sure I put anyone but Rodgers Big Ben and Brady ahead of Andrew without debate. Maybe I am a homer.

 

Brees. Romo  and Palmer are guys who's best years are behind them that could go either way. 

 

Then Wilson Dalton and Newton as the young guys. Although until this season Newton wasn't in the conversation. 

 

Carr and Bortles are improving and Mariotta and Winston should improve. None are with Luck. 

 

I think my list would be 1 Brady 2Rogers 3Big Ben 4 Brees 5 Romo 6 Wilson 7 Luck  

 

I don't think Palmer or Dalton is better player. Both have a better supporting cast. Cam has throw it again this year. I have Luck ranked 7th. That maybe be more of a testiment to poor QB play than to Andrew's greatness right now. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 hours ago, Gavin said:

Well I'm sure you don't think the earth is flat......But still I have Dalton just ahead of Luck

I respect a lot of your opinions but Dalton isn't better than Andrew. Top 5 are IMO Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Ben, and Cam and I only give Cam the edge over Andrew right now because he is the MVP and I don't want to sound like a homer. I think between Andrew and Wilson it's even, Wilson has a Ring but Andrew has carried his team much more over the years and has made a Final 4 at least. I know Eli has won 2 Rings but he has had some really mediocre seasons too. Giants haven't made the Playoffs since they won the SB last in the 2011 Season.

[bleevit]

I always find these "who is the best" articles a little absurd. In the NFL who is the best is determined only by the last game or two.

[LockeDown]

12 hours ago, Gavin said:

Depending on how you see him he can be overrated. Its all in the eye of the beholder. Right now I'd put the following ahead of Luck in no particular order:

 

Rodgers

Brady

Roethlisberger

Healthy Romo

Andy Dalton Healthy

Carson Palmer

Drew Brees

 

An argument can be made for Eli Manning. After that I think you can put Luck with possibly a couple others closing in on him in 2-3 years if they continue to grow as QB's but right now I'd put him in my top 7-8-9 comfortably . Still top 10 when healthy but still a lot of room for improvement....But I expect some of that big improvement comes this year. It will have to. Not necessarily about numbers but decision making and a few other little things that will go a long way

 

I don't understand your criteria, but I bet it's based off of statistics by one of those sports websites and uses some algorythm based on binary, barometric pressure and the Farmers Almanac.

 

Imo, only Rodgers and Big Ben are  all around better than Luck.  They have all boxes checked in the QB dept.  DESPITE the circumstances, that means in good times or bad times, those 2 find a way to win and Luck is woven from that cloth.  All of the others, have at least 1 box not checked.

[Gavin]

32 minutes ago, LockeDown said:

 

I don't understand your criteria, but I bet it's based off of statistics by one of those sports websites and uses some algorythm based on binary, barometric pressure and the Farmers Almanac.

 

Imo, only Rodgers and Big Ben are  all around better than Luck.  They have all boxes checked in the QB dept.  DESPITE the circumstances, that means in good times or bad times, those 2 find a way to win and Luck is woven from that cloth.  All of the others, have at least 1 box not checked.

Luck has a few boxes unchecked right now. Ill give an example: Not being able to pick up and adjust to the most obvious blitzes. You also don't state those boxes your talking about. You seriously don't think Brady is better than Luck?

[AKB]

4 hours ago, bleevit said:

I always find these "who is the best" articles a little absurd. In the NFL who is the best is determined only by the last game or two.

Not when the supporting cast is taken into account. That is like sayiing Manning played better than Russel Wilson last year because Manning won the SB

[LockeDown]

1 hour ago, Gavin said:

Luck has a few boxes unchecked right now. Ill give an example: Not being able to pick up and adjust to the most obvious blitzes. You also don't state those boxes your talking about. You seriously don't think Brady is better than Luck?

If you can somehow possibly separate the teams and look at the player, Luck is easily more talented.  How could you disagree with that?

 

[Gavin]

3 minutes ago, LockeDown said:

If you can somehow possibly separate the teams and look at the player, Luck is easily more talented.  How could you disagree with that?

 

You are just talking about measurables then?

[throwing BBZ]

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

So you put Andy Dalton ON the list and Cam Newton is NOT on the list?!?

 

Really?

 

 

 Russell Wilson is in the 5-6 range. But Forgotten by some.
 This should be a season where Andrew gets his head out, and throws many more balls, More Accurately,

 inside of 15 yards. This would vault him securely into the top 10 for post 2016 ratings.
  GM`s are on the kool-aid. Even with all the "nice tackle" nonsense from Luck, the Players put him at 92. Hmmm!
 

Now, we have 1 WR with size.
No TE who can get downfield.
And 2 runts at WR who can`t block in the running game.
And one RB we can count on?
A totally unproven O-Line.
It isn`t that certain our Offense will produce well against playoff caliber teams.