UPDATED thoughts on GRIGS

[Nesjan3]

Well for me i was very upset about the Grigson extension, i felt like it should have been either Pagano leaves as well as Grigs or Pagano stays and Grigs leaves...that obviously did not happen. Anyways i got over it and began to fill myself with optimism and hope for the next season, but this recent move in resigning Allen to a deal way off point and more than likely leaving Fleener to walk has got my blood boiling and i have gotten back on the Grigs hate train, everyone knows the pros and cons of the Allen, Fleener situation so that is not the discussion, this is strictly to talk about Grigson our fantastic GM

[BlueShoe]

We are going to see responses like yours a lot this season. As soon as anyone disagrees with Grigson then it will be expressed on this board.

 

I believe that Allen is the better TE, but there will be multiple opinions on this. Allen's had some injuries so we will have to see how this all plays out. 

 

We couldn't pay them both so I believe Grigson made the right choice to retain Allen.

 

Let's see where Fleener ends up and how much he gets. 

[iLoveMyBoys]

Fleener is not that good he's average at best cant compare to Dwayne Allen end of story. Grigson made the right move

[jameszeigler834]

1 hour ago, Nesjan3 said:

Well for me i was very upset about the Grigson extension, i felt like it should have been either Pagano leaves as well as Grigs or Pagano stays and Grigs leaves...that obviously did not happen. Anyways i got over it and began to fill myself with optimism and hope for the next season, but this recent move in resigning Allen to a deal way off point and more than likely leaving Fleener to walk has got my blood boiling and i have gotten back on the Grigs hate train, everyone knows the pros and cons of the Allen, Fleener situation so that is not the discussion, this is strictly to talk about Grigson our fantastic GM

I think Fleener is the better player and he has been productive Allen hasn't done anything to deserve that kind of money if we let Fleener out the door we will regret it I'm sure of it and I will say even then it should have been him getting that kind of money not Allen.

[ar1888]

Maybe they talked with Fleener and his price tag was unattainable.

[csmopar]

2 hours ago, IVORYsDAD said:

Fleener is not that good he's average at best cant compare to Dwayne Allen end of story. Grigson made the right move

Based on what.....

 

Fleener has been durable, more productive and has improved his game each year.

 

Allen is a piece of broken glass that has been glued back together with Elmers glue. Only positive I can give Allen is that he's better imo in the red zone. 

 

 

That said, I'll get back to topic.

 

I despise this Allen deal, it's gonna backfire and we're gonna waste 8 million for him to sit in the locker room or on the bench hurt. Typical Grigson deal of overpaying for injured players in the hopes they come back and stay healthy.  I don't mind him bringing Allen back, but not at this price. Should have let him go. Grigson obviously isn't gonna change his ways and it's gonna hurt...big time. Am I on the Grigson needs fired wagon again, not yet. We'll see how thing unfold thru September  ut I swear if he drafts a TE in round 1 after letting Fleener walk (assuming he does), I will personally rent the truck to move Grigsos crap from indy

[CR91]

The trolls are out early

[Dark Superman]

Grigson just overpaid Allen by a boatload.

Fleener produces. He stays on the field.

Allen is injury prone and will be making bank by sitting on the sideline with another injury riddled season.

Good job Grigson. You just buried this team is more.

[Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes]

The Grigson argument is simple, has his FA and drafts made the Colts a better team?  If your answer is yes, please back it up starting with record & statistics to support your answer.

[Bravo]

I've said before.

 

Colts HAD to overpay one of them...

no choice unless they wanted to lose both. Players don't just take discounts because they like the Colts.

 

The contract the Colts gave Allen is one he probably would have gotten from another team on the FA market. Fleener might get overpaid somewhere also.

[UKColt13]

Don't blame Grigson, blame the Bills when they gave Charles Clay that ridiculous contract.

 

They set the market for average to above average tight ends. Grigs had to overpay one of them. Allen is the better player.

 

End of story.

[tfunky14]

3 hours ago, IVORYsDAD said:

Fleener is not that good he's average at best cant compare to Dwayne Allen end of story. Grigson made the right move

Bingo.....

[SteelDragon]

Giving Allen market value and a bit of a 'good faith' contract shouldn't be reason for blood boiling. For all we know, Fleener might have priced himself out of Indy anyway.  

 

[TheRustonRifle#7]

31 minutes ago, UKColt13 said:

Don't blame Grigson, blame the Bills when they gave Charles Clay that ridiculous contract.

 

They set the market for average to above average tight ends. Grigs had to overpay one of them. Allen is the better player.

 

End of story.

I posted the same in the thread regarding Allen re-signing. Glad to see someone else gets it.

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, TheRustonRifle#7 said:

I posted the same in the thread regarding Allen re-signing. Glad to see someone else gets it.

no, I get it  but you don't sign that much to a player who misses 30% of the games hes supposed to play in.....

[Jdubu]

We are going to see if this was the correct move or not. My feeling is we cannot pay for them both even if we thought they were both best TE's in the league. We have TY, Moncrief and Dorsett as a very viable #1 and #2 with potential in waiting Dorsett. When you have Luck throwing, and hopefully 100% healed, you should be able to make things happen with these guys and a TE that gives you just enough for other teams to have to account for, not blanket or gameplan like a Gronk type but cover if he goes out. We need to either hope the Oline is fixed with a new coach and ZBS and ignore big FA spending on it or allocate dollars to protecting Luck. We all know we need better players on the defense and that's why I am frustrated we chose to spend 7+ mil/yr on a TE that doesn't stay on the field due to injuries. Doyle provided just less than Allen has at a fraction of the cost. Anyways, it is done and we will just have to see who is right, the GM or fans. 

[TheRustonRifle#7]

15 minutes ago, csmopar said:

no, I get it  but you don't sign that much to a player who misses 30% of the games hes supposed to play in.....

 

15 minutes ago, csmopar said:

no, I get it  but you don't sign that much to a player who misses 30% of the games hes supposed to play in.....

I am sorry but did I respond directly to you in any way? I am sure you realize that 15 of the 21 games missed were in 2013? The cap goes up and the salaries rise, it's the nature of the beast...food for thought:

 

http://overthecap.com/position/tight-end

[lollygagger8]

[ProblChld32]

4 hours ago, IVORYsDAD said:

Fleener is not that good he's average at best cant compare to Dwayne Allen end of story. Grigson made the right move

 

Well that average at best Fleener has out performed and produced more than the often Injured Dwayne Allen, End Of Story!

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

The trolls are out early

Haha.  The over reaction here is hilarious. 

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, ProblChld32 said:

 

Well that average at best Fleener has out performed and produced more than the often Injured Dwayne Allen, End Of Story!

Not run blocking he hasn't

[csmopar]

10 minutes ago, TheRustonRifle#7 said:

 

I am sorry but did I respond directly to you in any way? I am sure you realize that 15 of the 21 games missed were in 2013. The cap goes up and the salaries rise, it's the nature of the beast...food for thought:

 

http://overthecap.com/position/tight-end

Fully get that.   What you're not getting is that even when on the field, he's not worth that contract, period.  Should have let someone else pay him.  

[ProblChld32]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

Not run blocking he hasn't

 

It has Widely mean stated that Fleener's run blocking ability has steadily improved in his 4 years since being in the NFL, am i saying that he is a better blocker than Allen is? No, not at all. but he has shown the ability to stretch the field and go Vertical? Yes fleener has, If i wanted someone out there to Block id throw an extra Lineman in the lineup and make him eligible. Allen has only had 16 catches on the season we dont need a pass catching lineman we need a guy who can for one stay on the field , be adequte at blocking and go vertical to stretch the field (Ie. Fleener).

[jvan1973]

Just now, ProblChld32 said:

 

It has Widely mean stated that Fleener's run blocking ability has steadily improved in his 4 years since being in the NFL, am i saying that he is a better blocker than Allen is? No, not at all. but he has shown the ability to stretch the field and go Vertical? Yes fleener has, If i wanted someone out there to Block id throw an extra Lineman in the lineup and make him eligible. Allen has only had 16 catches on the season we dont need a pass catching lineman we need a guy who can for one stay on the field , be adequte at blocking and go vertical to stretch the field (Ie. Fleener).

Did you watch any games last year?   Is tough to catch balls when you are asking to be a blocker.   I would like to know how many routes he was asked to run last year vs being a pass protector.   I promise you those making the decision to re sign him have more in store than being a 6th lineman

[csmopar]

10 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Not run blocking he hasn't

Cant block a Defender when you're not on the field.............. 

[TheRustonRifle#7]

8 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Fully get that.   What you're not getting is that even when on the field, he's not worth that contract, period.  Should have let someone else pay him.  

I get more than you think? Please feel free to insult someone else though? I also find it amusing that you decided to quote my reply to UK's reply insteading of going after the source of your obvious disagreement? None of the players are worth what they get and it is as simple as that.

[csmopar]

https://www.thehuddle.com/nfl/player/5782/ = Dwayne's stats

 

https://www.thehuddle.com/nfl/player/5784/ = Coby's stats,

 

Fleener > Dwayne

[ProblChld32]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

Did you watch any games last year?   Is tough to catch balls when you are asking to be a blocker.   I would like to know how many routes he was asked to run last year vs being a pass protector.   I promise you those making the decision to re sign him have more in store than being a 6th lineman

 

Its not a secret that he was under utilized but your argument is that he was a better blocker of the two. Which i agreed on, Im simply stating as far as pass catching and production went the last 3 seasons Fleener has the upper hand. IMO i believe had Allen been used more he would have sustained an injury, the guy just has terrible luck.

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Cant block a Defender when you're not on the field.............. 

Pretry sure he played in 13 games last year

[deedub75]

We shouldn't have drafted Fleener anyway....

[Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes]

1 hour ago, UKColt13 said:

Don't blame Grigson, blame the Bills when they gave Charles Clay that ridiculous contract.

 

They set the market for average to above average tight ends. Grigs had to overpay one of them. Allen is the better player.

 

End of story.

 

[aaron11]

9 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

We shouldn't have drafted Fleener anyway....

i have always thought this too.  i dont dislike fleener, hell he lives near me and got to him talk at the bar once, he's pretty cool.  decent on the field but we had to choose and allen could be better value

 

i wanted jenkins with that draft pick

[2006Coltsbestever]

I think it's unfair to judge him until after the Draft and Free Agency. Until then I am holding off judgement. We have 3 11 win seasons and Final 4 under him so lets wait and see what he does after an Average season like this past season.

[csmopar]

25 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Pretry sure he played in 13 games last year

With less than 60% of his normal snaps in 4 of those, per what espn just said this morning, he was out 3, limited in 4.

[csmopar]

29 minutes ago, TheRustonRifle#7 said:

I get more than you think? Please feel free to insult someone else though? I also find it amusing that you decided to quote my reply to UK's reply insteading of going after the source of your obvious disagreement? None of the players are worth what they get and it is as simple as that.

im not insulting anyone.  I simply saying that us naysayers get your point about the cap and player salaries, thats not the issue most of us have with DA's new contract. Its the contract for an unhealthy player in its entirety.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

34 minutes ago, csmopar said:

im not insulting anyone.  I simply saying that us naysayers get your point about the cap and player salaries, thats not the issue most of us have with DA's new contract. Its the contract for an unhealthy player in its entirety.

 

34 minutes ago, csmopar said:

im not insulting anyone.  I simply saying that us naysayers get your point about the cap and player salaries, thats not the issue most of us have with DA's new contract. Its the contract for an unhealthy player in its entirety.

I am far from happy that the contract situation is what it is and warned in many of my posts leading to FA that this was going to happen. I was amused at some of the member's "off season mocks" that had Allen returning for less than he made on his rookie contract? 

 

As far as the injury status is concerned 15 of the 21 games missed were in 2013. Last year Allen was akin to a 6th offensive lineman and that versatility is what made him more desirable for a return. Whether you, me or the dude down the road likes it or not, it is what it is? Jason La Canfora has written that if Allen hit the open market he would have reached the 8 mil per mark. It is right where other teams would have likely offered him....let's just hope he can live up to it?

 

Edit: My apologies for the double quotes. I swear I haven't had a drink since Saturday night ;)

 

[throwing BBZ]

3 hours ago, ar1888 said:

Maybe they talked with Fleener and his price tag was unattainable.

 

 Fleener should be looking for a better situation. Ask Andre Johnson.
 Hope he ends up with the Raiders, Jags, or AZ.

[csmopar]

30 minutes ago, TheRustonRifle#7 said:

 

I am far from happy that the contract situation is what it is and warned in many of my posts leading to FA that this was going to happen. I was amused at some of the member's "off season" mocks that had Allen returning for less than he made on his rookie contract? 

 

As far as the injury status is concerned 15 of the 21 games missed were in 2013. Last year Allen was akin to a 6th offensive lineman and that versatility is what made him more desirable for a return. Whether you, me or the dude down the road likes it or not, it is what it is? Jason La Canfora has written that if Allen hit the open market he would have reached the 8 mil per mark. It is right where other teams would have likely offered him....let's just hope he can live up to it?

 

Edit: My apologies for the double quotes. I swear I haven't had a drink since Saturday night ;)

 

 

 

Yeah, you're right.  I just pray they put a ton of incentives in this thing.

 

And lets all go have a beer, this off season is gonna be wild.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

Just now, csmopar said:

 

 

Yeah, you're right.  I just pray they put a ton of incentives in this thing.

 

And lets all go have a beer, this off season is gonna be wild.

Sounds good Brother!

[COLTS449]

I think he's the dumbest GM in the NFL. He wants to keep guys like Cole and he doesn't want to sign good young players.  If we don't sign a good corner and a good guard tomorrow it'll really show he doesn't care about getting us to a Super Bowl this season. He wants to wait 2-3 years and then have 5-6 years to maybe win one, instead of loading the team up and going all in now. The only thing he knows how to do is structure contracts. That's it.