UPDATED thoughts on GRIGS

[will426]

Lol I see some comments about fleener stretching the field..eh how often has that happened. I'd take s traditional Te over a Te who wants to be a reciever only. I'm sick of watching fleener get tackled by someone tiny  before he gets the first  instead of plowing through them he's too damn big to be allowing that

[COLTS449]

Wonder who we'll sign tomorrow? Morris Claiborne, Zane Beadles, and some other bums?

[RollerColt]

[OHColtfan]

Haven't liked Grigson much at all, for FA or drafts much, but need to wait and see how the whole of the FA process goes. Maybe there is some kind of overall plan here with our new coordinators that requires this signing, but to me looks like a touch of madness  to pay Allen like this, seems to be a good chunk of our limited cap space for an oft-injured, marginally productive TE. Would rather spend the $$ on a productive OG or a quality C.  That said, it is already done, so I hope Allen stays healthy,  goes to the Pro Bowl next year and is lights out for us.

[DougDew]

So far this offseason, Grigs is hitting 75% with good decisions. 

 

CUT AJ: Good

CUT Freeman:  Very Good

Retaining Cole at reduced pay:  Good

DA re-signing:  Bad

[JColts72]

New/Old Grigs topic, same thoughts on him; not good as GM. He's throwing bad money deals around.

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, TheRustonRifle#7 said:

Sounds good Brother!

May have to change it to some hard moonshine liquor now....

[richard pallo]

I have to say so far I like the Allen signing and the Cole restructuring.  They both make a lot of sense.  Allen is the better TE, the more complete player.  We were not going to be able to afford one of the FA edge rushers and the top ones will be gone in the draft.  We only have so much to spend in FA.  Now I am only expecting to sign two new starters in FA, a OL and CB.  Probably not big names but solid starters.  I would not be surprised to see Jones or Jackson restructure as well.  

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I have to say so far I like the Allen signing and the Cole restructuring.  They both make a lot of sense.  Allen is the better TE, the more complete player.  We were not going to be able to afford one of the FA edge rushers and the top ones will be gone in the draft.  We only have so much to spend in FA.  Now I am only expecting to sign two new starters in FA, a OL and CB.  Probably not big names but solid starters.  I would not be surprised to see Jones or Jackson restructure as well.  

I don't care for the DA signing. but I agree with everything else said.

[azcolt]

7 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

We are going to see responses like yours a lot this season. As soon as anyone disagrees with Grigson then it will be expressed on this board.

 

I believe that Allen is the better TE, but there will be multiple opinions on this. Allen's had some injuries so we will have to see how this all plays out. 

 

We couldn't pay them both so I believe Grigson made the right choice to retain Allen.

 

Let's see where Fleener ends up and how much he gets. 

Allen had some injuries? It would be more appropriate to say he had some health (though not much).  Some guys have to be dragged off the field. Allen will never be one of those guys and now that he has been paid get ready for him to miss many more games. Grigson is a fool.

[Nostrils]

4 hours ago, CR91 said:

The trolls are out early

 

You mean the know it all cry babies lol 

[Nostrils]

 

3 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

 

Its too bad threads like these don't get shut down like the ones that do when we try to talk about real or unpopular issues (weed, domestic violence, etc etc)... The mods need to get it together haha.  They want to let these peeps have opinions and talk non sense but the second we step off the path and have a differing opinion and truly debate / discuss issues its shut down.  Get it together!!! 

[Nesjan3]

3 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

this is what people post when they refuse to look at the truth

[Nostrils]

3 hours ago, ProblChld32 said:

 

Well that average at best Fleener has out performed and produced more than the often Injured Dwayne Allen, End Of Story!

 

 

Except when it comes to performing as a blocker, but tds, catches and yards are the only things that matter... psh

 

its funny how it turns into a one or the other thing, I like both and they both offer something but why can't we come correct when we talk about skill set & production (understand injury sentiment but.... Come on now)

[Nostrils]

3 hours ago, TheRustonRifle#7 said:

I get more than you think? Please feel free to insult someone else though? I also find it amusing that you decided to quote my reply to UK's reply insteading of going after the source of your obvious disagreement? None of the players are worth what they get and it is as simple as that.

 

Not worth it to him, anyway, and we all know we have to make him happy because only his opinion matters.  Unreal.  Mr know it all over there insulting you.  Don't worry I got your back! 

[ProblChld32]

6 minutes ago, Nostrils said:

 

 

Except when it comes to performing as a blocker, but tds, catches and yards are the only things that matter... psh

 

its funny how it turns into a one or the other thing, I like both and they both offer something but why can't we come correct when we talk about skill set & production (understand injury sentiment but.... Come on now)

 

So you mean to tell me you prefer an often Injured TE that can can block as opposed to a guy that can stay on the field stretch and go vertical and be a mismatch nightmare for defenses? i believe i did come correct when i addressed skill set and production. 

[Nostrils]

1 hour ago, COLTS449 said:

Wonder who we'll sign tomorrow? Morris Claiborne, Zane Beadles, and some other bums?

 

 

Lol you're mad he won't sign good young players (your post before) but you want them to sign Claiborne.  Stopppppp

[OffensivelyPC]

1 hour ago, COLTS449 said:

I think he's the dumbest GM in the NFL. He wants to keep guys like Cole and he doesn't want to sign good young players.  If we don't sign a good corner and a good guard tomorrow it'll really show he doesn't care about getting us to a Super Bowl this season. He wants to wait 2-3 years and then have 5-6 years to maybe win one, instead of loading the team up and going all in now. The only thing he knows how to do is structure contracts. That's it.

Oh com'on, don't you think you're being at least a little dramatic?  I'm not trying to be condescending.  I just think this is a pretty exaggerated complaint.  We've got a draft to get to as well.  We're not going to fill up every hole in our roster in this off season.  Whether or not we should have a better roster over the past 4 years is obviously up for debate.  But this is year 1 of our "new and improved" front office.  I think they've got a 2 year leash.  If we're not any closer to a SB by then, I think we clean house.  But let's at least give them that time before we abandon ship.

[csmopar]

I just cant wait for when he takes a TE in the 1st...........

[crazycolt1]

34 minutes ago, Nostrils said:

 

 

 

Its too bad threads like these don't get shut down like the ones that do when we try to talk about real or unpopular issues (weed, domestic violence, etc etc)... The mods need to get it together haha.  They want to let these peeps have opinions and talk non sense but the second we step off the path and have a differing opinion and truly debate / discuss issues its shut down.  Get it together!!! 

In case you didn't notice this is a Colts forum. Not a political or religious forum. If you have a hard time with what this forum is designed for maybe you find another one to voice your opinions on in those matters. It's a simple concept.

[crazycolt1]

18 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Oh com'on, don't you think you're being at least a little dramatic?  I'm not trying to be condescending.  I just think this is a pretty exaggerated complaint.  We've got a draft to get to as well.  We're not going to fill up every hole in our roster in this off season.  Whether or not we should have a better roster over the past 4 years is obviously up for debate.  But this is year 1 of our "new and improved" front office.  I think they've got a 2 year leash.  If we're not any closer to a SB by then, I think we clean house.  But let's at least give them that time before we abandon ship.

That don't fit into the whine and doom and gloom mindset.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Fleener should be looking for a better situation. Ask Andre Johnson.
 Hope he ends up with the Raiders, Jags, or AZ.

Andre Johnson is washed up. He will be lucky if he even makes a team. He should retire. Allen is better than Fleener as well.

[Nostrils]

24 minutes ago, ProblChld32 said:

 

So you mean to tell me you prefer an often Injured TE that can can block as opposed to a guy that can stay on the field stretch and go vertical and be a mismatch nightmare for defenses? i believe i did come correct when i addressed skill set and production. 

 

 

Let's not act like Allen can only block though.  He can be that same nightmare that people for some reason think fleener is?... And he's shown that in years past (excluding last year and we all know why, even though we all want to act like all that matters is catches and yards/tds.. From the TE position, anyway)

 

But I see these posts and Its the same argument in similarity on here as freeman and Jackson being exploited in pass coverage .. It doesn't exist, because as soon as one gives up a big play or td people act like that happens every passing down they are on the field and are thrown at and want them gone... people want to act like they are being exposed on every passing play like teams are just throwing on the two all day with ease and thats not the case

 

just like people want to act like fleener is some amazing mismatch we exploit on a consistent basis (they don't).  Maybe it could happen but it hasn't so until he becomes the threat people act like he is (all around) stop.  

 

And I'm a little off topic and kind of rambling but I think it's relevant.

 

Im not happy about the past injuries either but the same things could happen to fleener or anyone else.  Definitely not ideal but i don't  know any man who is gonna get mad at another man for making money and getting hurt and not being able to play, especially in football / contact sports, unless they haven't gone through it themselves.  2013 sucked, but hey he caught that TD pass in which her got hurt going vertical so there's that.  It would be another thing for me if he was dropping balls over and over or being used as a extra linemen and not being able to block.  But who knows his health could be amazing  and fleener could catch the bug, we just never know but to kiss a few games here or there, it happens and I'm not upset by it.. And again a whole season isn't ideal or even a couple every year, but it happens..I ask it often, cuz i just don't understand... "What do you people want/expect?" Because it's like we can't have it all (Health, talent, beneficial contracts, commeroderie, etc etc) but think we are owed that and get mad when it's not the case.  

 

I like both both guys and wish we could have both.. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, COLTS449 said:

I think he's the dumbest GM in the NFL. He wants to keep guys like Cole and he doesn't want to sign good young players.  If we don't sign a good corner and a good guard tomorrow it'll really show he doesn't care about getting us to a Super Bowl this season. He wants to wait 2-3 years and then have 5-6 years to maybe win one, instead of loading the team up and going all in now. The only thing he knows how to do is structure contracts. That's it.

I agree with a lot of what you normally say and I wanted Cole gone but we re-signed him for 2 Mill, so it isn't the worse move. We need some depth regarding Pass Rushers. It's not like we are going to rely on him for a lot. Wait until the Draft and Free Agency is over before calling him dumb. If he screws both up than call him dumb  

[Nostrils]

10 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

In case you didn't notice this is a Colts forum. Not a political or religious forum. If you have a hard time with what this forum is designed for maybe you find another one to voice your opinions on in those matters. It's a simple concept.

 

 

No I didn't notice.. How dare I?!?! Lolllllll :-/

 

of of course I do 

 

But when said subject just so happens to tie in with football... Then what??? What do you have to say about that Mr. "In case you didn't notice"?

[crazycolt1]

Just now, Nostrils said:

 

 

No I didn't notice.. How dare I?!?! Lolllllll :-/

 

of of course I do 

 

But when said subject just so happens to tie in with football... Then what??? What do you have to say about that Mr. "In case you didn't notice"?

It's pretty common knowledge that political and or religious debates are not allowed in this forum. Why? Because it is a Colt football forum. Like I said, a simple concept.

[OffensivelyPC]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

That don't fit into the whine and doom and gloom mindset.

I get people's frustration.  Maybe not necessarily the whine/doom/gloom mindset, which I'm not accusing anybody of in particular.  We'll need to wait and see what the full contract details are

 

So to me, the average annual salary is okay.  I'm curious what the rest of his contract details are.  Spotrac is reporting that only $11.5m is guaranteed initially.  He's got some per game bonus and then a roster bonus for 2017.  So this may be more team friendly than people are giving it credit for.  If that's the case, and this is more incentivized, there's nothing wrong with this contract.  We need Allen healthy, and if he is, I think we all would say $7 per at the end of the day is okay.  

 

 

[COLTS449]

45 minutes ago, Nostrils said:

 

 

Lol you're mad he won't sign good young players (your post before) but you want them to sign Claiborne.  Stopppppp

 

Someone doesn't get sarcasm.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I get people's frustration.  Maybe not necessarily the whine/doom/gloom mindset, which I'm not accusing anybody of in particular.  We'll need to wait and see what the full contract details are

 

So to me, the average annual salary is okay.  I'm curious what the rest of his contract details are.  Spotrac is reporting that only $11.5m is guaranteed initially.  He's got some per game bonus and then a roster bonus for 2017.  So this may be more team friendly than people are giving it credit for.  If that's the case, and this is more incentivized, there's nothing wrong with this contract.  We need Allen healthy, and if he is, I think we all would say $7 per at the end of the day is okay.  

 

 

IMO being the 10th on the list is not unreasonable. Even with the games Allen has missed he still has better numbers that a few above him on the list. It seems to be the going rate and it amazes me that so much negative feedback is going on.

[Nostrils]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

It's pretty common knowledge that political and or religious debates are not allowed in this forum. Why? Because it is a Colt football forum. Like I said, a simple concept.

But like I said, and we don't have to keep going back in forth, but if you want to.....

 

When it actually ties into football like a fine or suspension or release or jail time, or whatever, why can't we discuss it... It's still on the field football discussion, in my opinion.

 

my thing is, and I feel this way for this time and place (2016) it's like as soon as someone has a differing opinion it's like "nope I'm not gonna hear it if I don't have the same views" and I just think that mentality hurts everyone.  Even on a subject like fleener vs Allen, as soon as people kind of get adamant about their beliefs and say something with conviction, and the person arguing the point does the same from their view it's "shut it down!"  I'm not for attacking one another but sometimes you have to take off the handcuffs and discuss... 

 

I was was obviously joking about this thread being shut down because I love differing opinions, I rarely post like I used to because I like to laugh at the comments, but I am serious about the other part, if and when it actually does tie into football.  

[needanoline63]

While I think he overpaid, I'm glad Allen is coming back. He's better all around then fleener. I do hate the Cole resigning though

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, Nostrils said:

But like I said, and we don't have to keep going back in forth, but if you want to.....

 

When it actually ties into football like a fine or suspension or release or jail time, or whatever, why can't we discuss it... It's still on the field football discussion, in my opinion.

 

my thing is, and I feel this way for this time and place (2016) it's like as soon as someone has a differing opinion it's like "nope I'm not gonna hear it if I don't have the same views" and I just think that mentality hurts everyone.  Even on a subject like fleener vs Allen, as soon as people kind of get adamant about their beliefs and say something with conviction, and the person arguing the point does the same from their view it's "shut it down!"  I'm not for attacking one another but sometimes you have to take off the handcuffs and discuss... 

 

I was was obviously joking about this thread being shut down because I love differing opinions, I rarely post like I used to because I like to laugh at the comments, but I am serious about the other part, if and when it actually does tie into football.  

I understand that but we both know that political and or religious subjects lead to nothing but arguments. We can all and do have different opinions about football but when you enter the subject of politics and or religion it turns into a beast that cant be tamed.

[Nostrils]

15 minutes ago, Nostrils said:

But like I said, and we don't have to keep going back in forth, but if you want to.....

 

When it actually ties into football like a fine or suspension or release or jail time, or whatever, why can't we discuss it... It's still on the field football discussion, in my opinion.

 

my thing is, and I feel this way for this time and place (2016) it's like as soon as someone has a differing opinion it's like "nope I'm not gonna hear it if I don't have the same views" and I just think that mentality hurts everyone.  Even on a subject like fleener vs Allen, as soon as people kind of get adamant about their beliefs and say something with conviction, and the person arguing the point does the same from their view it's "shut it down!"  I'm not for attacking one another but sometimes you have to take off the handcuffs and discuss... 

 

I was was obviously joking about this thread being shut down because I love differing opinions, I rarely post like I used to because I like to laugh at the comments, but I am serious about the other part, if and when it actually does tie into football.  

And People shouldn't  have to go search the Internet for another colts forum where they are accepted befause they aren't here, and should be able to give opinion on the colts official forum.  You want to have your opinion and strongly believe in it, other people should have theirs, regardless..

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, needanoline63 said:

While I think he overpaid, I'm glad Allen is coming back. He's better all around then fleener. I do hate the Cole resigning though

Don't sweat Cole, he re-signed for cheap, it wont hurt us much regarding the Cap and he can still make an impact on 3rd downs. We need at least some depth.

[Nostrils]

4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I understand that but we both know that political and or religious subjects lead to nothing but arguments. We can all and do have different opinions about football but when you enter the subject of politics and or religion it turns into a beast that cant be tamed.

We have a breakthrough!!! 

 

i just like the devils advocate pov.. That's all.. and some topics on here seem so good and like they are getting good traction and then just get shut down because of content and I'm like dang that had potential.  I completely understand though because you're definitely right lol if someone doesn't agree chances are they aren't gonna take even a split second to try to understand the oppositions point of view. You're definitely right 

 

 

[ProblChld32]

22 minutes ago, Nostrils said:

 

 

Let's not act like Allen can only block though.  He can be that same nightmare that people for some reason think fleener is?... And he's shown that in years past (excluding last year and we all know why, even though we all want to act like all that matters is catches and yards/tds.. From the TE position, anyway)

 

But I see these posts and Its the same argument in similarity on here as freeman and Jackson being exploited in pass coverage .. It doesn't exist, because as soon as one gives up a big play or td people act like that happens every passing down they are on the field and are thrown at and want them gone... people want to act like they are being exposed on every passing play like teams are just throwing on the two all day with ease and thats not the case

 

just like people want to act like fleener is some amazing mismatch we exploit on a consistent basis (they don't).  Maybe it could happen but it hasn't so until he becomes the threat people act like he is (all around) stop.  

 

And I'm a little off topic and kind of rambling but I think it's relevant.

 

Im not happy about the past injuries either but the same things could happen to fleener or anyone else.  Definitely not ideal but i don't  know any man who is gonna get mad at another man for making money and getting hurt and not being able to play, especially in football / contact sports, unless they haven't gone through it themselves.  2013 sucked, but hey he caught that TD pass in which her got hurt going vertical so there's that.  It would be another thing for me if he was dropping balls over and over or being used as a extra linemen and not being able to block.  But who knows his health could be amazing  and fleener could catch the bug, we just never know but to kiss a few games here or there, it happens and I'm not upset by it.. And again a whole season isn't ideal or even a couple every year, but it happens..I ask it often, cuz i just don't understand... "What do you people want/expect?" Because it's like we can't have it all (Health, talent, beneficial contracts, commeroderie, etc etc) but think we are owed that and get mad when it's not the case.  

 

I like both both guys and wish we could have both.. 

 

I like both as well but it makes more sense to me strictly from a business standpoint to go with a guy who has shown a history of productivity and health. As far as being an all around TE Allen is that. But with the dynamics of the game changing. everyone knows we live in a day and age where the NFL is a pass happy league. Not saying Allen cant flourish in the pass game because when healthy he can. But Fleener just possess the more physical intangibles in a receiving TE tall frame 6'6 and he creates far more separation than Allen does. With that being said i would love if we could keep both, but if i had to choose one it would've been Fleener.

[Nostrils]

14 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

 

Someone doesn't get sarcasm.

 

You need to throw some lol's or haha's in there for me.. I did think you were serious. I Wouldn't be surprised though if they gave him a shot thinking maybe pags could kind of Do a D butler thing and bring more out of him.  I hope not though 

[Nostrils]

3 minutes ago, ProblChld32 said:

 

I like both as well but it makes more sense to me strictly from a business standpoint to go with a guy who has shown a history of productivity and health. As far as being an all around TE Allen is that. But with the dynamics of the game changing. everyone knows we live in a day and age where the NFL is a pass happy league. Not saying Allen cant flourish in the pass game because when healthy he can. But Fleener just possess the more physical intangibles in a receiving TE tall frame 6'6 and he creates far more separation than Allen does. With that being said i would love if we could keep both, but if i had to choose one it would've been Fleener.

 

 

I get it, and this is where I'd personally like to know more about contracts. Seeing prices rise and looking like "oh man what the heck Did they do that for?"  Then reading people who know the numbers saying things like "it's really not that bad considering salary cap and demand on market and such"... So that way I can come more correct.  

 

Like i saw an article or something about Green Bay and Allen.. Like maybe a tweet from one of their best writers or fans, I forget.. But I see that and I'm like dang even with that possibility re sign someone because let one of those two go play with Rodgers and shoot!! Or they could just get paid and get hurt and sit.  It's all a trip to me.

 

and like I just get so irritated with numbers.. Like the dude who has 6 interceptions is looked at like he's better than the corner who has 0; but never gets thrown on, and is above average in tackling.  I know it's not gonna happen because that's what it is and what we value as fans but like anything else it's never just cut and dry, but we all know that, and regardless will still always get fired up about it 

 

lol don't mind me I just ramble 

[OffensivelyPC]

26 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

IMO being the 10th on the list is not unreasonable. Even with the games Allen has missed he still has better numbers that a few above him on the list. It seems to be the going rate and it amazes me that so much negative feedback is going on.

I can certainly agree with that.  

[lollygagger8]

1 hour ago, Nesjan3 said:

this is what people post when they refuse to look at the truth