NEW ENGLAND FIRES OL COACH. SCAPE GOAT?

[dgambill]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000628378/article/patriots-fire-offensive-line-coach-dave-deguglielmo

 

Don't get me wrong you can't let your franchise qb get hit that many times but why didn't Mcdaniels go 2 TE or have running backs chip etc....just a poor game plan or play calling if you ask me. I think McDaniels ego got Tom creamed and this was less the OL coach's fault than play caller. What do you guys think?

[SilentHill]

Rumor has it he was responsible for the air pressure in the balls yesterday, needless to say they were not to Tom's liking.

[Jules]

Not really suprised, their o line was a mess in the game. Sort of resembled the Giants 2007 SB with pressure.

 

Sometimes when the Pats get overly favored their offense turns to crap. But, this Pats o line (and run game due to injuries too) was a bit of a mirage all year. They lived and died off the passing game only.

 

Brady has had some recent playoff games where all they do is throw the ball and it caught up to them finally.

 

 

[Gramz]

10 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

Rumor has it he was responsible for the air pressure in the balls yesterday, needless to say they were not to Tom's liking.

You're ornery tonight.  

[Gramz]

Tom got hit a lot yesterday.  Not surprised that the OL coach is taking the blame.   

[bababooey]

Isn't half the o line injured/rookies? Maybe use one of your TEs or a RB to stay home and block...

[aaron11]

probably was going to happen no matter how the season ended.  they cant run it at all or protect very well

[csmopar]

22 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

Rumor has it he was responsible for the air pressure in the balls yesterday, needless to say they were not to Tom's liking.

 I thought the balls looked a little heavy for tiny Tom to throw.....that and the ones between the legs were flatten by Von Miller and the rest of the Broncos front 7.

[2006Coltsbestever]

11 minutes ago, Mrs. Misunderstood said:

Tom got hit a lot yesterday.  Not surprised that the OL coach is taking the blame.   

That was nice to see LOL. I had faith in Denver's Defense but that even surprised me how many times they got to Tom. He was hit 23 times. That is insane.

[21isSuperman]

We should hire Dante Scarnecchia before they get the chance to lure him out of retirement

[csmopar]

55 minutes ago, dgambill said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000628378/article/patriots-fire-offensive-line-coach-dave-deguglielmo

 

Don't get me wrong you can't let your franchise qb get hit that many times but why didn't Mcdaniels go 2 TE or have running backs chip etc....just a poor game plan or play calling if you ask me. I think McDaniels ego got Tom creamed and this was less the OL coach's fault than play caller. What do you guys think?

 

 

Honestly,  I credit the Broncos...the Patriots even tried to move Gronk and have him block Von Miller....didn't work, Ware nailed Brady with von millet half a step off.

[2006Coltsbestever]

29 minutes ago, Jules said:

Not really suprised, their o line was a mess in the game. Sort of resembled the Giants 2007 SB with pressure.

 

Sometimes when the Pats get overly favored their offense turns to crap. But, this Pats o line (and run game due to injuries too) was a bit of a mirage all year. They lived and died off the passing game only.

 

Brady has had some recent playoff games where all they do is throw the ball and it caught up to them finally.

 

 

The teams that Tom has always struggled against have had at least 2 massive pass rushers. Us when we had Freeney and Mathis in the years of 2005-2009 - we were 4-1 vs Tom in that stretch, Ravens with Suggs and Lewis, and Denver yesterday with Ware and Miller. To clarify Lewis didn't really have many sacks but it was the threat of him being there. To beat the Patriots you need at least 2 dominant Defensive players that can disrupt Tom.

[crazycolt1]

15 minutes ago, bababooey said:

Isn't half the o line injured/rookies? Maybe use one of your TEs or a RB to stay home and block...

The Pats really didn't have a good blocking RB. Plus, taking Gronk out of passing patterns gives Brady a very limited receiving corps. I think the talent level of the backup TEs is subpar at best.

[Jules]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The teams that Tom has always struggled against have had at least 2 massive pass rushers. Us when we had Freeney and Mathis in the years of 2005-2009 - we were 4-1 vs Tom in that stretch, Ravens with Suggs and Lewis, and Denver yesterday with Ware and Miller.

 

The Pats have become one dimensional on offense a lot in the playoffs. They were better with it last year but this year they had some bad RB injuries too. They managed to get a ring last year with it but since 2007 it's all about the pass pass pass a lot with them. And it finally caught up to them vs. Denver who was able to key off on Brady only.

 

Last year for example in the divisional against the Ravens they pretty much did throw nonstop in the second half. I am not even sure they ran it once in the second half of that game.

 

I think vs. the Chiefs they threw a ton too. I don't know the stats from all the games but the Pats have been defying some logic in the last few years with winning games by throwing so much and running so little. 

 

The Pats were at the bottom of the league running this past year just like the Colts were. On the flip side for the Panthers they were second in the league all year running it so Denver is going to have to change some things up since they can't just prepare for a pure passing attack.

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 minutes ago, Jules said:

 

The Pats have become one dimensional on offense a lot in the playoffs. They were better with it last year but this year they had some bad RB injuries too. They managed to get a ring last year with it but since 2007 it's all about the pass pass pass a lot with them. And it finally caught up to them vs. Denver who was able to key off on Brady only.

 

Last year for example in the divisional against the Ravens they pretty much did throw nonstop in the second half. I am not even sure they ran it once in the second half of that game.

 

I think vs. the Chiefs they threw a ton too. I don't know the stats from all the games but the Pats have been defying some logic in the last few years with winning games by throwing so much and running so little. 

 

The Pats were at the bottom of the league running this past year just like the Colts were. On the flip side for the Panthers they were second in the league all year running it so Denver is going to have to change some things up since they can't just prepare for a pure passing attack.

 

 

The only thing that scares me about the Panthers Offense is Cam's ability to run. I think Denver can cover their WR's and pretty much take them out but Cam can run unlike Brady. That is why Luck gives Denver so many problems too, he can run. Luck and Cam are similar.

[Jules]

11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The only thing that scares me about the Panthers Offense is Cam's ability to run. I think Denver can cover their WR's and pretty much take them out but Cam can run unlike Brady. That is why Luck gives Denver so many problems too, he can run. Luck and Cam are similar.

 

Pretty much how I feel, if they cover everything vs. Carolina you could still have some open lane for Cam to jump, run and leap over/through But, that comes with a price too as we saw with Luck running on them and getting nailed in the stomach.

 

I think it will be interesting since the Broncos defense is so nasty and hard hitting and Cam....well I don't see him going down easy and taking a beating well either with his fired up nature.  I could imagine there might be some serious anger and fireworks in this game when the Broncos D and Panthers O mashes up for some fun.

 

 

I know I am getting OT........sigh. Okay as for the Pats I think they have been a bit overrated on o line lately to begin with but not sure it's necessarily the coach either. I have seen Brady have enough time in the pocket to eat a burger but I think vs. Denver it just fell apart big time.....and yes this is credit to the Broncos too since they were in full attack mode teeing off on him. The Pats could never (and especially on the road in a loud environment) get into a real rhythm with the crowd noise and the Broncos always on him. Any big play Brady got seemed like it was big time work to achieve.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, Jules said:

 

Pretty much how I feel, if they cover everything vs. Carolina you could still have some open lane for Cam to jump, run and leap over/through But, that comes with a price too as we saw with Luck running on them and getting nailed in the stomach.

 

I think it will be interesting since the Broncos defense is so nasty and hard hitting and Cam....well I don't see him going down easy and taking a beating well either with his fired up nature.  I could imagine there might be some serious anger and fireworks in this game when the Broncos D and Panthers O mashes up for some fun.

 

 

I know I am getting OT........sigh. Okay as for the Pats I think they have been a bit overrated on o line lately to begin with but not sure it's necessarily the coach either. I have seen Brady have enough time in the pocket to eat a burger but I think vs. Denver it just fell apart big time.....and yes this is credit to the Broncos too since they were in full attack mode teeing off on him. The Pats could never (and especially on the road in a loud environment) get into a real rhythm with the crowd noise and the Broncos always on him. Any big play Brady got seemed like it was big time work to achieve.

As many injuries the Pats have had on the O.Line Brady has had time in a lot of games, so not sure the Coach was the problem. Injuries were more than anything IMO.

[Jules]

13 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

As many injuries the Pats have had on the O.Line Brady has had time in a lot of games, so not sure the Coach was the problem. Injuries were more than anything IMO.

 

Probably, I never kept track of the Pats o line injuries this year. They may have had a few of them along the way. But, I still think being so one dimensional on offense finally caught up to them vs. a top defense. 

 

Not sure it was entirely on the o line but then again who knows what goes on behind the scenes.

[chad72]

45 minutes ago, Jules said:

 

The Pats have become one dimensional on offense a lot in the playoffs. They were better with it last year but this year they had some bad RB injuries too. They managed to get a ring last year with it but since 2007 it's all about the pass pass pass a lot with them. And it finally caught up to them vs. Denver who was able to key off on Brady only.

 

Last year for example in the divisional against the Ravens they pretty much did throw nonstop in the second half. I am not even sure they ran it once in the second half of that game.

 

I think vs. the Chiefs they threw a ton too. I don't know the stats from all the games but the Pats have been defying some logic in the last few years with winning games by throwing so much and running so little. 

 

The Pats were at the bottom of the league running this past year just like the Colts were. On the flip side for the Panthers they were second in the league all year running it so Denver is going to have to change some things up since they can't just prepare for a pure passing attack.

 

 

 

The Pats had Revis and Browner plus their O-line really gelled well towards the end of last year, biggest difference from this year. It was the opposite trajectory last year, 2-2 after the Chiefs game where their OL got owned, and progressively improved and peaked in the playoffs as a unit. This year, they peaked early, and progressively got worse that Brady had to release it in 2-2.5 seconds to make up for it. We all remember the years when you could see Brady sip a cup of tea, turn around, locate his target and throw it to Welker or someone who comes open after 4 seconds.

[Jules]

4 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

The Pats had Revis and Browner plus their O-line really gelled well towards the end of last year, biggest difference from this year. It was the opposite trajectory last year, 2-2 after the Chiefs game where their OL got owned, and progressively improved and peaked in the playoffs as a unit. This year, they peaked early, and progressively got worse that Brady had to release it in 2-2.5 seconds to make up for it. We all remember the years when you could see Brady sip a cup of tea, turn around, locate his target and throw it to Welker or someone who comes open after 4 seconds.

 

I would agree with all of this. And yeah they did peak early this year until the Denver regular season game. Before that game I think many were thinking they were becoming almost a near lock to go back to the SB.

 

Brady has had those times yes when the o line has created the Berlin Wall around him and nobody could get through lol. In 2007 until they came to Indy and got a close game I felt as that year went on too they got progressively weaker with protection until the Giants finally nailed them. I remember week 1 in 2007 vs. the Jets when like.......Brady could read War and Peace in between throws.

[Superman]

Their line has been barely average, or worse, for a couple years now. 

[Restored]

1 hour ago, Jules said:

 

The Pats have become one dimensional on offense a lot in the playoffs. They were better with it last year but this year they had some bad RB injuries too. They managed to get a ring last year with it but since 2007 it's all about the pass pass pass a lot with them. And it finally caught up to them vs. Denver who was able to key off on Brady only.

 

Last year for example in the divisional against the Ravens they pretty much did throw nonstop in the second half. I am not even sure they ran it once in the second half of that game.

 

I think vs. the Chiefs they threw a ton too. I don't know the stats from all the games but the Pats have been defying some logic in the last few years with winning games by throwing so much and running so little. 

 

The Pats were at the bottom of the league running this past year just like the Colts were. On the flip side for the Panthers they were second in the league all year running it so Denver is going to have to change some things up since they can't just prepare for a pure passing attack.

 

 

 

I would agree mostly but even last year, they had some semblance of a rushing threat to keep teams honest. This year without Blount or Lewis, the threat just wasn't there so teams automatically knew all the Patriots could do was throw. To their credit, they made it work mostly all season but against an elite defense like Denver's with a terrific pass rush, they were doomed.

[bababooey]

30 minutes ago, Superman said:

Their line has been barely average, or worse, for a couple years now. 

Nevermind the fact that Belichick has drafted exactly two offensive linemen in the first three rounds since '06...

[BloodyChamp]

Loving this...so many things happening to protect Brady from any blame. I forgot where I read this earlier, but I read something about the Broncos double teaming Gronk all game, which was why Edelman got all those targets. Then on the PAT the doubled Edelman who Brady had started looking to first even though he wasn't the first option by design.

[RockThatBlue]

1 hour ago, bababooey said:

Nevermind the fact that Belichick has drafted exactly two offensive linemen in the first three rounds since '06...

Could you imagine this board if Grigson drafted only 2 o lineman in the first 3 rounds for almost 10 years? People would want Grigson hog tied and ran outta town.

[SkyBane]

1 minute ago, RockThatBlue said:

Could you imagine this board if Grigson drafted only 2 o lineman in the first 3 rounds for almost 10 years? People would want Grigson hog tied and ran outta town.

People already want Grigson hog tied and run out of town lmao.

[RockThatBlue]

3 minutes ago, SkyBane said:

People already want Grigson hog tied and run out of town lmao.

Lol I know. Grigson obviously must do better with the o line but I thought it was a funny and true observation. There would be 100 fire Grigson threads if that was the case here 

[SkyBane]

Just now, RockThatBlue said:

Lol I know. Grigson obviously must do better with the o line but I thought it was a funny and true observation. There would be 100 fire Grigson threads if that was the case here 

The O line is better than people give it credit for, the real reason to question Grigson is his first round success rate. He's done decent-good finding talent outside the first round, but check this out

 

2012 draft:

1-1: Andrew Luck

 

2013 draft:

1-24: Bjoern Werner

 

2014 draft:

traded to Cleveland- Trent Richardson

 

2015 draft: 

1-29: Phillip Dorsett

 

W H E W

H

E

W 

[RockThatBlue]

1 minute ago, SkyBane said:

The O line is better than people give it credit for, the real reason to question Grigson is his first round success rate. He's done decent-good finding talent outside the first round, but check this out

 

2012 draft:

1-1: Andrew Luck

 

2013 draft:

1-24: Bjoern Werner

 

2014 draft:

traded to Cleveland- Trent Richardson

 

2015 draft: 

1-29: Phillip Dorsett

 

W H E W

H

E

W 

No doubt he's gotta do better in first rounds.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, BloodyChamp said:

Loving this...so many things happening to protect Brady from any blame. I forgot where I read this earlier, but I read something about the Broncos double teaming Gronk all game, which was why Edelman got all those targets. Then on the PAT the doubled Edelman who Brady had started looking to first even though he wasn't the first option by design.

 

And Gronk was wide open.

[Superman]

2 hours ago, bababooey said:

Nevermind the fact that Belichick has drafted exactly two offensive linemen in the first three rounds since '06...

 

It is what it is. I think they want someone who can coach up interior linemen, and weren't satisfied with the guy they had. 

 

I don't have any problem with a coach retooling his staff as he sees fit. We obviously have no idea what the dynamic is, or what the actual expectations are, so I hesitate to say that anyone is being scapegoated. I think Belichick wants a better OL coach, and that makes sense to me.

[BloodyChamp]

I wonder whose idea it was to pull that trick on the PAT. I'm guessing Phillips but it's *supposed* to be the HC in those situations as they happen in games. Idk...

 

Bill's coaches are glorified errand boys. The fact that 1 of them has been fired screams scapegoat imo.

[Superman]

15 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

I wonder whose idea it was to pull that trick on the PAT. I'm guessing Phillips but it's *supposed* to be the HC in those situations as they happen in games. Idk...

 

Bill's coaches are glorified errand boys. The fact that 1 of them has been fired screams scapegoat imo.

 

I disagree wholeheartedly with the bolded. Maybe none of them would do anything on another staff, but those guys know their stuff and work hard. I think McDaniels showed some serious flaws as a head coach, but he's obviously a smart offensive guy. 

 

Also, I posted an article here today about how the Texans install the offensive gameplan every week. O'Brien insists that 'Bill lets his coaches coach,' said it more than once in that piece. And he says he's patterned his staff after what they did in New England, where O'Brien worked up from low level assistant to OC. If anyone knows the Pats' modus operandi, it's O'Brien. The Texans' staff is all hands on deck when it comes to putting in the gameplan. I can't imagine Belichick not being the same way.

 

I got the same impression from the "Do Your Job" fluff piece last offseason. I recently watched it for the first time, and it's good stuff, but not nearly as in depth as I expected. Still, all the coaches work hard, from the research director to the coordinators.

[King Colt]

First, I never read, or heard any of the blame going to the OL coach, only what a great defensive game plan Phillips came up with. Maybe Belichick should learn there are time to kick a filed goal instead of believing his team is superior in every game situation. It turned out the cloud of the missed extra point stayed there for four quarters, why not fire the kicking coach as well? Hoody is a former defensive coach so why did he not offer up some ideas for his assistant before and during the game? Denver's three man rush could not have been a shock to Hoody as it was not the first time they showed it. By the way, Manning got $2,000,000  bonus money for the win, look for a thank you card in the mail Hoody. Ya gotta luv it.

[Gramz]

here's an interesting stat

Belichick has lost more games to Peyton than any other opposing QB.

Maybe Peyton is in BB's head

 

[Coltsfan1953]

7 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I disagree wholeheartedly with the bolded. Maybe none of them would do anything on another staff, but those guys know their stuff and work hard. I think McDaniels showed some serious flaws as a head coach, but he's obviously a smart offensive guy.

 

Also, I posted an article here today about how the Texans install the offensive gameplan every week. O'Brien insists that 'Bill lets his coaches coach,' said it more than once in that piece. And he says he's patterned his staff after what they did in New England, where O'Brien worked up from low level assistant to OC. If anyone knows the Pats' modus operandi, it's O'Brien. The Texans' staff is all hands on deck when it comes to putting in the gameplan. I can't imagine Belichick not being the same way.

 

I got the same impression from the "Do Your Job" fluff piece last offseason. I recently watched it for the first time, and it's good stuff, but not nearly as in depth as I expected. Still, all the coaches work hard, from the research director to the coordinators.

It doesn't seem that Pats coordinators have been too good as head coaches.

 

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

13 hours ago, dgambill said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000628378/article/patriots-fire-offensive-line-coach-dave-deguglielmo

 

Don't get me wrong you can't let your franchise qb get hit that many times but why didn't Mcdaniels go 2 TE or have running backs chip etc....just a poor game plan or play calling if you ask me. I think McDaniels ego got Tom creamed and this was less the OL coach's fault than play caller. What do you guys think?

 

Why not fire the DC his D let a 39 year old QB who the patriots have pretty much owned for a decade beat them .

 

Defense more than anything determined that game - O-line was bad for both QB's to blame it on that is simply Scapegoating .

 

The Hoodie who everyone wants to proclaim a defensive genius gets the credit along with Tommy boy on Offense they failed against Denver and thats on them .

 

The patties had 13 wins 1 game away from the SB & its the O-line coachs fault only in New England .

 

That coach won't be out of work long .

[jvan1973]

51 minutes ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

Why not fire the DC his D let a 39 year old QB who the patriots have pretty much owned for a decade beat them .

 

Defense more than anything determined that game - O-line was bad for both QB's to blame it on that is simply Scapegoating .

 

The Hoodie who everyone wants to proclaim a defensive genius gets the credit along with Tommy boy on Offense they failed against Denver and thats on them .

 

The patties had 13 wins 1 game away from the SB & its the O-line coachs fault only in New England .

 

That coach won't be out of work long .

Except they haven't owned manning led teams in the last decade.  

[bababooey]

If only they won those two extremely winnable games against the Jets and Dolphins in December. Still can't believe they lost home field advantage by saying they'll kick to start OT.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 hour ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

Why not fire the DC his D let a 39 year old QB who the patriots have pretty much owned for a decade beat them .

Pats are 1-3 vs Manning in AFC Championship Games, 2-3 in the playoffs overall.