The line was a mess

[cmgww]

I thought a lot of tonight's loss was mostly on the offensive line. Having two starters out caused a lot of trouble for Hass...Luck is mobile enough to overcome some of the lack of protection but Matt isn't. But beyond that he looked just "off" all night. Tons of checkdowns, dump offs, holding on too long (when he has been so good at getting rid of the ball fast), etc. 

I can't blame this all on the defense. They kept it close in the first half, but when we immediately went  3 and out to start the 2nd half I knew we were in trouble. Yeah the final score looked bad, but the D was on the field way too much. 

Gotta get back Castonzo and Thornton! Jax as a pretty stout front 7, it won't be an easy game. 

[Superman]

MH was a step slow, and inaccurate right from the start. The protection gradually got worse. 

[achcolts]

i agree although it was expected... also got to give credit to the very underrated steelers d and specifically pass rush because their secondary are veeeeeery average players

[GoColts8818]

Well yeah they are starting a college basketball player at left tackle, a 7th round pick from a D2 school, an undrafted second year player at center, a run blocker at one guard spot and Mewhort who is probably the NFL starter level player out there right now.  With Castonzo and Thornton they are a decent group but take them away and they are a trainwreck.  

The Steelers also played the Colts far differently than other teams have played the Colts with Matt, they let Gore run and went after Hasselbeck all night.  Most teams have focused on taking Gore away and taking their chances with a 40 year old QB only to get burned.  The Steelers went after Hasselbeck and it paid off.  

[ProblChld32]

They were extremely overwhelmed!

[Defjamz26]

It's to be expected though given the injuries. I did think Harrison in particular stuck out with his poor play. He looked lost sometimes and wasn't picking up assignments

[krunk]

Harrison is complete trash and these dumb bells keep throwing the guy out there.  I don't understand it.  Part of Hasslebecks injury came from Harrison getting bull rush/power slammed back in to Hasslebecks lap.

[Dark Superman]

The secondary looked bad, but the lack of pass rush and our inability to stop the run really killed us.

[Dark Superman]

I really hope we make the defense and offensive line a priority this off-season..

[Dark Superman]

Why is Harrison still starting? He's awful.. He looked worse than Good.

[Old Colt]

1 hour ago, ProblChld32 said:

They were extremely overwhelmed!

AGAIN!

[lollygagger8]

Why is Holmes on the sideline watching when he's clearly better than cross-eyed Harrison? 

[DougDew]

Castonzo, Reitz, Mewhort, Thornton, Good. 

It would be as good as any combination we've had this season.

[krunk]

21 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Castonzo, Reitz, Mewhort, Thornton, Good. 

It would be as good as any combination we've had this season.

Superman felt Good played bad, but that's not what I saw when I was watching.  I don't put much stock into PFF overall as far as me using it all the time to make points, but even they listed him with positive grades.  Just using my eyes I felt that Harrison, Reitz and maybe Louis were having trouble.

 

Top performers:

NT Zach Kerr (+3.1)
LB Sio Moore (+1.8)
S Dwight Lowery (+1.8)
LG Jack Mewhort (+1.7)
RT Denzelle Good (+1.5)

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/12/07/ind-pit-grades-steelers-blow-out-colts/

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

Superman felt Good played bad, but that's not what I saw when I was watching.  I don't put much stock into PFF overall as far as me using it all the time to make points, but even they listed him with positive grades.  Just using my eyes I felt that Harrison, Reitz and maybe Louis were having trouble.

 

Top performers:

NT Zach Kerr (+3.1)
LB Sio Moore (+1.8)
S Dwight Lowery (+1.8)
LG Jack Mewhort (+1.7)
RT Denzelle Good (+1.5)

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/12/07/ind-pit-grades-steelers-blow-out-colts/

Interesting. 

I don't think Reitz is a starting Tackle.  Mewhort was a highly regarded C coming out of high school.  He played all along the line at a premier Big Ten school, OSU, so his versatility is likely very high.  Obviously he'd need some reps snapping, especially from the shotgun, but I would bet he wouldn't be any worse at C than what we have now.  Good is doing fine given its his second game.

[krunk]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Interesting. 

I don't think Reitz is a starting Tackle.  Mewhort was a highly regarded C coming out of high school.  He played all along the line at a premier Big Ten school, OSU, so his versatility is likely very high.  Obviously he'd need some reps snapping, especially from the shotgun, but I would bet he wouldn't be any worse at C than what we have now.  Good is doing fine given its his second game.

I felt Good was fine overall.  I thought Reitz was getting beat, Harrison bull rushed back into the quarterback, and again maybe Lance Louis. I don't have access to any all 22, but this is what I noticed upon observation.  I didn't see a whole lot of pressure coming off the right side.  I'll be glad when Costanzo comes back.  I don't know what they will decide when that happens but I'd be okay with leaving Good at RT.  I like his upside for the most part.   As far as Mewhort is concerned I think he needs to stay put.  Overall I just think these dufuses need to wake up and smell the coffee on Harrison.  Make the necessary changes and put Holmes back in the dad gum game.  I am just completely dumbfounded as to why they think this guy needs to play over Holmes.  It's like pouring acid on my flesh it's making me so angry!

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, krunk said:

I felt Good was fine overall.  I thought Reitz was getting beat, Harrison bull rushed back into the quarterback, and again maybe Lance Louis. I don't have access to any all 22, but this is what I noticed upon observation.  I didn't see a whole lot of pressure coming off the right side.  I'll be glad when Costanzo comes back.  I don't know what they will decide when that happens but I'd be okay with leaving Good at RT.  I like his upside for the most part.   As far as Mewhort is concerned I think he needs to stay put.  Overall I just think these dufuses need to wake up and smell the coffee on Harrison.  Make the necessary changes and put Holmes back in the dad gum game.  I am just completely dumbfounded as to why they think this guy needs to play over Holmes.  It's like pouring acid on my flesh it's making me so angry!

IndyStar said Holmes has an ankle injury.  Its why he left the starting lineup to begin with, and why he took so long to earn it the past few years.  Bad ankles go back to USC senior year.  I'm done w/counting on him.  So its either invest FA money or a decent draft pick next year, or try JM, I'd try JM at this point, especially since Reitz is a quality G, IMO.

[krunk]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

IndyStar said Holmes has an ankle injury.  Its why he left the starting lineup to begin with, and why he took so long to earn it the past few years.  Bad ankles go back to USC senior year.  I'm done w/counting on him.  So its either invest FA money or a decent draft pick next year, or try JM, I'd try JM at this point, especially since Reitz is a quality G, IMO.

Don't believe that to be true.  Holmes was active last night, and I believe he was active against Tampa.  If he couldn't play I would assume they wouldn't make him active and make other plans.

 

Colts Inactives: 12 Luck 15 Dorsett 35 Thomas 50 Freeman 69 Thornton 74 Castonzo 92 Werner

— Jim Irsay (@JimIrsay)

December 7, 2015

 

 

And these were the inactives vs Tampa

 

COLTS INACTIVES

S Mike Adams

T Anthony Castonzo

WR Phillip Dorsettt

G Todd Herremans

QB Andrew Luck

LB Sio Moore

LB Bjoern Werner

*Adams, Castonzo, Dorsett, Moore and Luck are out due to injury.

[austriancolt]

Even with our startes we have an average OL at best. I really hope they will fix it next season because we don't have much beside Castonzo and Mewhort and we don't have any quality depth.

[Jay Kirk]

1 hour ago, SupermanLuck12 said:

I really hope we make the defense and offensive line a priority this off-season..

Thank you , no more WRs

[throwing BBZ]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

Don't believe that to be true.  Holmes was active last night, and I believe he was active against Tampa.  If he couldn't play I would assume they wouldn't make him active and make other plans.

 

Colts Inactives: 12 Luck 15 Dorsett 35 Thomas 50 Freeman 69 Thornton 74 Castonzo 92 Werner

— Jim Irsay (@JimIrsay)

December 7, 2015

 

 

And these were the inactives vs Tampa

 

COLTS INACTIVES

S Mike Adams

 

T Anthony Castonzo

 

WR Phillip Dorsettt

 

G Todd Herremans

 

QB Andrew Luck

 

LB Sio Moore

 

LB Bjoern Werner

 

*Adams, Castonzo, Dorsett, Moore and Luck are out due to injury.

 

 OK Krunky boy, who would have been our backup center if Holmes wasn`t active?
 Oh wait, Maybe Holmes could have played in an emergency.

[krunk]

8 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 OK Krunky boy, who would have been our backup center if Holmes wasn`t active?
 Oh wait, Maybe Holmes could have played in an emergency.

 

Where are you going with this Throwing B.S.?

[CR91]

the o-line is fine. we're just missing our starters. what did you expect was gonna happen?

[VaAllDay757]

When the starting right tackle is play left tackle you have problems

[ColtsBlueFL]

8 hours ago, Jay Kirk said:

Thank you , no more WRs

 

No more FA's!  Polian learned after one guy... Corey Simon.  Bam. Done.

Grigson has had - Gosder Cherilus, Donald Thomas, LaRon Landry, Ricky Jean Francois, trading a #1 pick to obtain Trent Richardson, and soon to be on the list Greg Toler. But his drafts have been bad at times too as in - John Boyet, Bjoern Werner.  I think all of these were in 2013 alone!!  Add Andre Johnson and Todd Herremans soon.

Grigson has some hits, but some expensive misses.  Polian relied almost fully on the draft after Simon.  Folks banged on him for not forking out big money on big names in FA, but he wasn't going to be burned by them any more. If Grigson stays on, I wonder how he works going forward.

[Jay Kirk]

11 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

No more FA's!  Polian learned after one guy... Corey Simon.  Bam. Done.

Grigson has had - Gosder Cherilus, Donald Thomas, LaRon Landry, Ricky Jean Francois, trading a #1 pick to obtain Trent Richardson, and soon to be on the list Greg Toler. But his drafts have been bad at times too as in - John Boyet, Bjoern Werner.  I think all of these were in 2013 alone!!  Add Andre Johnson and Todd Herremans soon.

Grigson has some hits, but some expensive misses.  Polian relied almost fully on the draft after Simon.  Folks banged on him for not forking out big money on big names in FA, but he wasn't going to be burned by them any more. If Grigson stays on, I wonder how he works going forward.

Would agree the FA problem is really not going after right ones , too old injury prone so on. Trying to get impact players at a bargain price, lol guess what its very rare that happens. If we don't use Draft to upgrade the OL we will be left in the dust , with a crippled QB no running game , should I continue ?

[DougDew]

42 minutes ago, Jay Kirk said:

Would agree the FA problem is really not going after right ones , too old injury prone so on. Trying to get impact players at a bargain price, lol guess what its very rare that happens. If we don't use Draft to upgrade the OL we will be left in the dust , with a crippled QB no running game , should I continue ?

Look at all of the FA signings during the past two that have switched teams.  Almost none have worked out.  Look at the Cowboys heralded Oline..first round draft picks galore....and the boys are losing games because of the lack of a QB and WRs, and a good RB that fits the system, and an aging Jason Witten.  NE was scoring points at will with three rookie Olineman drafted in the mid rounds or later, but finally succumbed to the injuries in their receiving corps.

Drafting highly talented olineman in the first or second rounds really doesn't matter, unless you need a LT, which we don't.  We'd be better off drafting a real TE in the first round and letting ours walk in free agency than spending that pick on a interior olineman (but defense is the higher priority this spring, IMO)

[Surge89]

22 hours ago, SupermanLuck12 said:

I really hope we make the defense and offensive line a priority this off-season..

 

What lol?  These are the best offensive and defensive lines Indy has had in nearly a decade. All of you overreact so bad.   The only thing needed is a center and Dline depth.   And that's 5th-7th round players and FAs.  

These were backup lineman playing against the best front 7 in football by far. Tuitt and Heyward with that loaded linebacker group will be great for years.

[DougDew]

And look at Pittsburgh...why do they score so many points.  Nobody talks about their talented oline that they spent 1st rounders on (Pouncey is hurt).  Its because of their three speedy WRs who can catch, and RBs who can make tacklers miss and break a few along the way.

[pgt_rob]

8 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

The only thing needed is a center and Dline depth.   And that's 5th-7th round players and FAs.  

 

Colts need more than just a new center. We also need a right guard and possibly a right tackle if Joe Reitz goes down (which we can be very prone to injury). Reitz can go out with injury and that's when the line gets shuffled. We can't keep playing that game. It's sickening.

[krunk]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

And look at Pittsburgh...why do they score so many points.  Nobody talks about their talented oline that they spent 1st rounders on (Pouncey is hurt).  Its because of their three speedy WRs who can catch, and RBs who can make tacklers miss and break a few along the way.

 

I think anybody could protect if you leave 8 people in to do the job.  We could protect as well if we did that.  That's what Pitt does a lot.  I don't think it's because they have all these 1st round beasts on the line.

[DougDew]

18 minutes ago, krunk said:

 

I think anybody could protect if you leave 8 people in to do the job.  We could protect as well if we did that.  That's what Pitt does a lot.  I don't think it's because they have all these 1st round beasts on the line.

That's sort of my point,  They protect Ben with things other than a highly talented oline, like multiple deep play threats.

[Archer]

I'm a little more optimistic than y'all on the OL front.  In Reitz's first game at LT, he was one of the highest graded players on the team by PFF.  He follwed it up with a poor performance at Pitt, but I've seen his name a couple of times this year in the PFF reports as a top performer.  I'm thinking that for now he is a good first option at RT (for a couple of years, at least).  And, as someone pointed out above, Good was listed as a top-5 performer vs. Pitt.  At OT, all I think we need is another late-round swing tackle to develop.

On the interior, Mewhort is good.  I think that Thornton is way too inconsistent, and our efforts this off-season should be geared towards improving the RG starter.  Brandon Brooks of the Texans is my top UFA target for the off-season.  Then, I like Thornton much better as a top back-up.  I don't think there are any easy solutions at Center.  The top UFAs usually resign with their teams, and it seems there are only a couple of special centers in the whole league.  Our options are to go with what we got or draft someone in the 2nd or 3rd who will take a couple of years to be any better than Harrison or Holmes.  (Many here seem to think we can draft an All-Pro center, but I don't.)  Honestly, improvement next year should come from a better RG, improved tackle health, and subtle improvement in Harrison/Holmes.

[Track Guy]

6 hours ago, Archer said:

I'm a little more optimistic than y'all on the OL front.  In Reitz's first game at LT, he was one of the highest graded players on the team by PFF.  He follwed it up with a poor performance at Pitt, but I've seen his name a couple of times this year in the PFF reports as a top performer.  I'm thinking that for now he is a good first option at RT (for a couple of years, at least).  And, as someone pointed out above, Good was listed as a top-5 performer vs. Pitt.  At OT, all I think we need is another late-round swing tackle to develop.

On the interior, Mewhort is good.  I think that Thornton is way too inconsistent, and our efforts this off-season should be geared towards improving the RG starter.  Brandon Brooks of the Texans is my top UFA target for the off-season.  Then, I like Thornton much better as a top back-up.  I don't think there are any easy solutions at Center.  The top UFAs usually resign with their teams, and it seems there are only a couple of special centers in the whole league.  Our options are to go with what we got or draft someone in the 2nd or 3rd who will take a couple of years to be any better than Harrison or Holmes.  (Many here seem to think we can draft an All-Pro center, but I don't.)  Honestly, improvement next year should come from a better RG, improved tackle health, and subtle improvement in Harrison/Holmes.

This year's draft class for centers is extra good. I know it's not easy for a rookie to start at C in the NFL but if there's a year to take a C it's probably this one. 

[crestmount]

We have to get a Pass Rusher and a Center in the first 2 rounds.  Going after a player to fill a major position in FA hasn't worked out well in the past, and won't in the future--there has to be a good reason why their current team is letting them go.

[rock8591]

Here's my lineup.

 

OL - Castonzo, Mewhort, Harrison, Thornton, Reitz

TE - Allen, Fleener

RB - Gore

WR - Hilton, Moncrief

 

Enough to block, also with several catching threats at TE and RB, as well as running threat, it keeps defenses honest.

[theanarchist]

On 12/7/2015 at 11:45 PM, achcolts said:

i agree although it was expected... also got to give credit to the very underrated steelers d and specifically pass rush because their secondary are veeeeeery average players

Which is why this loss was tough to watch. Ive seen the Steelers play several times this year and they struggled to pressure the passer, which they didn't against us. Their pass defense has been pretty bad most of the year, which it wasn't against us. Tough to take.

[ztboiler]

On 12/8/2015 at 9:01 PM, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

No more FA's!  Polian learned after one guy... Corey Simon.  Bam. Done.

Grigson has had - Gosder Cherilus, Donald Thomas, LaRon Landry, Ricky Jean Francois, trading a #1 pick to obtain Trent Richardson, and soon to be on the list Greg Toler. But his drafts have been bad at times too as in - John Boyet, Bjoern Werner.  I think all of these were in 2013 alone!!  Add Andre Johnson and Todd Herremans soon.

Grigson has some hits, but some expensive misses.  Polian relied almost fully on the draft after Simon.  Folks banged on him for not forking out big money on big names in FA, but he wasn't going to be burned by them any more. If Grigson stays on, I wonder how he works going forward.

You won't see Grigson go away from free agent signings until compelled to do so by the need to re-sign our homegrown talent.  Free Agency has made us a better team and he will keep signing players that make us better.  

Many act like the free agency misses have single handedly made us worse...as if doing nothing or relying solely on the draft was ever an option in these first four years.  Many of the misses have still made us marginally better than doing nothing and injuries are part of the business.  

[SteelCityColt]

On 07/12/2015 at 5:46 AM, GoColts8818 said:

Well yeah they are starting a college basketball player at left tackle, a 7th round pick from a D2 school, an undrafted second year player at center, a run blocker at one guard spot and Mewhort who is probably the NFL starter level player out there right now.  With Castonzo and Thornton they are a decent group but take them away and they are a trainwreck.  

The Steelers also played the Colts far differently than other teams have played the Colts with Matt, they let Gore run and went after Hasselbeck all night.  Most teams have focused on taking Gore away and taking their chances with a 40 year old QB only to get burned.  The Steelers went after Hasselbeck and it paid off.  

 

It was only a matter of time until someone worked out this was the way to beat MH.