Report: Colts held players-only meeting as front office tension continues

[Gavin]

I read somewhere Lance LOuis Herremans starting was his call. Also Mewhort to RT

I've made no apology for Grigsons inability to fix the O Line but they are not nearly as bad this year as some will lead you to believe, When you quit on the run game, Throw 28 times in a row, Hang into the ball for 3 seconds almost every play, Make no mistake...Im not making any grand statements of this O Line being great or even really good but I think if all healthy they are better then what many think, As a matter of fact I'd put both sacks on Luck vs the Panthers:

 

1st sack Gore ran what appeared to me to be a Texas route concept and Hilton ran what appeared to be a Drag route, Andrew appeared to have his eyes down field on Moncrief with Gore wide open with a lot of room to run after the catch (1st quarter 2:02 left...off Reitz)

 

2. 2nd sack came the 2nd play of the 4th Quarter at 14:57.......He did hang onto the ball a bit to long BUT nobody could get open, He had room to take off and scramble up the middle which would have avoided the sack given up by Castonzo

[csmopar]

You're gonna have to provide a link.

 

I read that Grigson had a good relationship with the Irsay family. But nothing of a romantic relationship.

 

Grigson is married, with six kids.

 

Irsay's oldest daughter, Carlie, is married. She's the one that's been most involved with Colts management, including representing the team at owners' meetings in 2014 when Irsay was unavailable. Grigson commented on working with her during that time, and spoke approvingly of her. Presumably, when people say that Grigson has a good relationship with one of Irsay's daughters, it's Carlie they're talking about.

 

Casey, the second oldest, is also married.

 

The youngest is Kalen, and I don't think she's married. But she graduated from college in 2010, which suggests she's in her mid 20s.

 

None of this means that Grigson can't be 'involved' with one of Irsay's daughters. But for obvious reasons, that's a pretty significant claim to make, and one should think carefully about it before making it. 

I am looking for the article.  I know I saw it on nbcsports, I am looking for it.  If I can't find it, I'll let you know.  But I am not alleging they are.  I'm just saying there WAS/IS a rumor of a dating relationship.  True or not, I have no idea.   I will update once I find something.

[DarkHorseColts]

Listened to Dan Dakich on the ride in to work this afternoon... and he brought up a good point.

 

Why, if this is a players-only meeting we're talking about here, do we even know about it?

[SteelCityColt]

I was just thinking the same about Pagano's illness having an impact.

 

But to your larger point, it could be that Pagano turning down the one year offer had more to do with his role than we realized. Rather than taking his ball and going home, he could have decided to let it play out. He's said that he doesn't plan to coach if he's not with the Colts, but maybe that's posturing. Maybe he didn't want to commit himself to a troublesome situation, knowing that with his record, he'd have other opportunities if push came to shove. 

 

And he will. Lots of NFL and college opportunities have opened up, including the Hurricanes. Pagano is nothing if not a great recruiter. College might be perfect for him.

 

I think he would made an excellent college coach. 

[Btown_Colt]

Listened to Dan Dakich on the ride in to work this afternoon... and he brought up a good point

Why, if this is a players-only meeting we're talking about here, do we even know about it?

Because Colt players are leaking information. The mere fact that Holder got this information let's us know that there is something going on with them all. Players aren't happy how things are being ran. Right or wrong and whatever it is, this needs to be stopped and issues resolved. Otherwise, at the end of the season everyone is gone.

[JPFolks]

Link:http://www.stampedeblue.com/2015/11/5/9679212/report-colts-held-players-only-meeting-as-front-office-tension-continues?utm_campaign=stampedeblue&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Reportedly happened last week. Thoughts?

Okay... I have to say this.   That is NOT a piece of journalism, it is a piece of BLANK... or to be nicer, a piece of propaganda poorly written to make the writers uneducated but preferred points.   I am no fan of Grigson, but he cites no source, not even an "unnamed" source, but acts like he does.  Who is he to make these claims and them make his own assumptions as if they are proven facts (none of which is the case).  This is hack journalism at its worst.  

 

A player meeting can mean many many many things.  First and foremost it could simply be a lot of old time vets starving for a SB at the end of their careers trying to pull some rookies and still young players together for more unified play.  It always seems like in any given game, a different area will play very well but another area will choke and lose us the game at a critical moment.  The penalties alone have taken away our margin of error in any given game and it has cost us as a turnover or missed tackle or coverage becomes overwhelming.   

 

I hope they give Chuck and company the autonomy to do their jobs and prove whether they can salvage this season.  A winning record would be a gigantic accomplishment, to go with winning the division and getting ready for the 5th best AFC team to come play us in the first round.  (No idea who that will be, either Pittsburgh or NY Jets probably, though Oakland might squeeze back into * as well).   This upcoming Pittsburgh game may be the most important remaining regular season game to see if we're competitive with a likely wild card team.   I suggest if we win that game, finish 9-7 and win the first round playoff game before we have to go to New England (or Denver) and we are competitive in that game or win it, they should keep their jobs and Grigs should be the one who goes.  If they do worse, Pagano goes, better, they all stay.  

[RockThatBlue]

Listening to JMV....Chris Hagan says he has a scoop about the players only meeting coming up. Will be interesting to see what he says.

[RockThatBlue]

Chris Hagan said his sources said it was just a run of the mill players meeting. Wasn't as deep or about Pagano or Grigson like certain media people/media outlets have put out there.

[jvan1973]

Chris Hagan said his sources said it was just a run of the mill players meeting. Wasn't as deep or about Pagano or Grigson like certain media people/media outlets have put out there.

Very common place in locker rooms of all teams from high school on. This is always made a big deal when a team is losing

[Exodus]

I'm not one for speculation, but I can't help but wonder. Bruce Arians seemed to really enjoy his time here in Indy. I wonder if one of the reasons he so quickly hopped over to Arizona was because he got a taste of this while here, and he saw the black cloud gathering.

 

Just an interesting thought 

[Jason_]

I'm not one for speculation, but I can't help but wonder. Bruce Arians seemed to really enjoy his time here in Indy. I wonder if one of the reasons he so quickly hopped over to Arizona was because he got a taste of this while here, and he saw the black cloud gathering.

 

Just an interesting thought 

 

I'd say it had much, MUCH more to do with the fact that Arians was offered a Head coaching position at Arizona...which is a promotion from Offensive Coordinator and a position he'd never been offered before.  I'd also be willing to bet that, if the rumors are true, that they didn't start until Arians left.

[Corndog]

https://m.soundcloud.com/1070-the-fan-1/1104-holder-jmv

I find this very interesting, especially with Holders article released tonight. JMV also mentions that he has heard rumor that TY returning punts was Irsay's call.

Very interesting listen, especially around the 3 minute mark when Holden says the amount of crap he has heard would crash the Star's website.  Then he says he only reports things with multiple sources and that is why everything doesn't come out through him.  

 

Personally with all of the reports coming out, it's impossible for me to believe something isn't going on.  On random websites you will get more rumors and heresy, but when journalists who have integrity reporting for major sites and papers are reporting a lot of this stuff thinking something isn't happening turns into denial.

 

 For a lot of posters here, I think it's the "say it ain't so" or "it won't happen to me" mentality.  It's too horrible for them to admit it's true, so they simply pretend it's not.  Oddly enough, many don't have a problem believing it for other teams.  

[Btown_Colt]

Very interesting listen, especially around the 3 minute mark when Holden says the amount of crap he has heard would crash the Star's website. Then he says he only reports things with multiple sources and that is why everything doesn't come out through him.

Personally with all of the reports coming out, it's impossible for me to believe something isn't going on. On random websites you will get more rumors and heresy, but when journalists who have integrity reporting for major sites and papers are reporting a lot of this stuff thinking something isn't happening turns into denial.

For a lot of posters here, I think it's the "say it ain't so" or "it won't happen to me" mentality. It's too horrible for them to admit it's true, so they simply pretend it's not. Oddly enough, many don't have a problem believing it for other teams.

I agree 100%. And it's not just Holder saying he has information, everyone is. JMV says it's the worse he has seen it, which includes 2011 when players were leaking information to lite a fire under Polian. JMV pretty much said you don't even have to dig for the info and is shocked at how many people are willing to leak information.

[Btown_Colt]

I'll also add that I think this is bigger than just a couple instances where the coaches were told to play this person over that person. I think we are barley scratching the surface of what is going on. The bottom line is, the office, coaches, and team are not on the same page and it showing up on the field.

[Cynjin]

Very interesting listen, especially around the 3 minute mark when Holden says the amount of crap he has heard would crash the Star's website.  Then he says he only reports things with multiple sources and that is why everything doesn't come out through him.  

 

Personally with all of the reports coming out, it's impossible for me to believe something isn't going on.  On random websites you will get more rumors and heresy, but when journalists who have integrity reporting for major sites and papers are reporting a lot of this stuff thinking something isn't happening turns into denial.

 

 For a lot of posters here, I think it's the "say it ain't so" or "it won't happen to me" mentality.  It's too horrible for them to admit it's true, so they simply pretend it's not.  Oddly enough, many don't have a problem believing it for other teams.  

 

 

I agree 100%. And it's not just Holder saying he has information, everyone is. JMV says it's the worse he has seen it, which includes 2011 when players were leaking information to lite a fire under Polian. JMV pretty much said you don't even have to dig for the info and is shocked at how many people are willing to leak information.

 

 

Honestly, this does not say too much for the players or anyone else that is leaking the information.  If you have a players only meeting, the details of the meeting should not be leaking out for public consumption.  Moreover, I keep reading how much the players love playing for Pagano.  Well leaking information like this does not exactly make Pagano look very good as a coach or his influence on the team. 

[Mameluc]

I've made no apology for Grigsons inability to fix the O Line but they are not nearly as bad this year as some will lead you to believe, When you quit on the run game, Throw 28 times in a row, Hang into the ball for 3 seconds almost every play, Make no mistake...Im not making any grand statements of this O Line being great or even really good but I think if all healthy they are better then what many think, As a matter of fact I'd put both sacks on Luck vs the Panthers:

 

1st sack Gore ran what appeared to me to be a Texas route concept and Hilton ran what appeared to be a Drag route, Andrew appeared to have his eyes down field on Moncrief with Gore wide open with a lot of room to run after the catch (1st quarter 2:02 left...off Reitz)

 

2. 2nd sack came the 2nd play of the 4th Quarter at 14:57.......He did hang onto the ball a bit to long BUT nobody could get open, He had room to take off and scramble up the middle which would have avoided the sack given up by Castonzo

i dont believe the oline is that bad. honestly

I kinda like Thornton regardless of this forum.

 

i just said what were examples of him meddling with coaching decitions

[Narcosys]

What i want to know is how they got into this situation to begin with? I understand Polian had almost total control over the team when he was here, but he had a resume to justify it. Did Irsay just go with what he was use to and not realize the fact that this is grigsons' first time, and had not shown that he has the capacity to run a team like that?

Why would Pagano sign on knowing that grigson has power over the roster and that he did not have complete control?

What was everyone's line of thinking?

[Corndog]

Honestly, this does not say too much for the players or anyone else that is leaking the information.  If you have a players only meeting, the details of the meeting should not be leaking out for public consumption.  Moreover, I keep reading how much the players love playing for Pagano.  Well leaking information like this does not exactly make Pagano look very good as a coach or his influence on the team. 

Considering a lot of the leaked information is about Grigson's involvement with selecting starters and the players not liking the uncertainty of Pagano's future, it doesn't seem he has lost his influence at all.  If the players went public, then you could definitely make that claim.  Maybe it's the players way of saying they don't like Grigson and feels it falls on deaf ears when they talk to Irsay about the issue.  

[Corndog]

What i want to know is how they got into this situation to begin with? I understand Polian had almost total control over the team when he was here, but he had a resume to justify it. Did Irsay just go with what he was use to and not realize the fact that this is grigsons' first time, and had not shown that he has the capacity to run a team like that?

Why would Pagano sign on knowing that grigson has power over the roster and that he did not have complete control?

What was everyone's line of thinking?

Polian didn't really abuse his power like this until the Caldwell years.  Don't remember any situations where Polian was selecting starters in Dungy's era, pretty sure the coaches called that.  In fact, from my understanding(I could certainly be wrong) Polian merely suggested starters in his last years during Caldwell's time and that even raised eyebrows.  

 

As far as Pagano signing on for this, seriously doubt it.  Grigson hadn't been a GM previously, so really Pagano was walking into this blind.  But unless he previously worked for a meddling GM, which I doubt considering I can't see John Harbaugh putting up with that, he probably didn't expect it. 

[Cynjin]

Considering a lot of the leaked information is about Grigson's involvement with selecting starters and the players not liking the uncertainty of Pagano's future, it doesn't seem he has lost his influence at all.  If the players went public, then you could definitely make that claim.  Maybe it's the players way of saying they don't like Grigson and feels it falls on deaf ears when they talk to Irsay about the issue.

The problem is that it makes Pagano look weak. By leaking the information they are accomplishing the exact opposite of what they want, assuming their goal was to support Pagano.

[Defjamz26]

But who this year? Maybe the Offensive Line 1st two games, but what else?

Yeah the OL. I think with not giving Dorsett more snaps. Also Trent Cole. He's not producing

[chad72]

Peyton held a players only meeting after the players were upset at sitting starters and not going for the perfect season in 2009. They managed to make it to the SB after that.

[Corndog]

The problem is that it makes Pagano look weak. By leaking the information they are accomplishing the exact opposite of what they want, assuming their goal was to support Pagano.

Pagano is in the final year of his contract, Grigson isn't.  Most NFL experts thought it was strange enough having Pagano go into the season in his final year, players don't like not knowing the direction of their team.  It really does handcuff a coach being in his final year and when you have someone as overbearing as Grigson, it's no surprise he was going to take advantage of the situation.  

[Grigs build the lines plz.]

Looks like the beginning of a mutiny.

 

[Btown_Colt]

The problem is that it makes Pagano look weak. By leaking the information they are accomplishing the exact opposite of what they want, assuming their goal was to support Pagano.

I agree. This whole thing stinks. It doesn't matter what the rumor is. It doesn't matter who is spreading it. The only thing that matters is that whatever issue/issues there may be, it has been allowed to build enough tension that it has caused the orgination to divide, take sides, point fingers, and leak information. Coaches aren't performing there best, players arent performing there best.

So what's left? Either get it figured out, or fire everyone. I think at the end of the season, Irsay will be looking for a new GM and coaches. Which means will be starting over again. The new coaches will want to run there schemes and get players they want. We are 4 years into Luck's career. At the time we are supposed to adding the final touches to the team and competing for superbowls, we are going to be resetting and rebuilding. I just don't want to see Luck's talents wasted here while the owner, GM, and coaches are fighting over things that should have been figured out before they signed their contracts.

[Narcosys]

Polian didn't really abuse his power like this until the Caldwell years. Don't remember any situations where Polian was selecting starters in Dungy's era, pretty sure the coaches called that. In fact, from my understanding(I could certainly be wrong) Polian merely suggested starters in his last years during Caldwell's time and that even raised eyebrows.

As far as Pagano signing on for this, seriously doubt it. Grigson hadn't been a GM previously, so really Pagano was walking into this blind. But unless he previously worked for a meddling GM, which I doubt considering I can't see John Harbaugh putting up with that, he probably didn't expect it.

But those powers have to be written into someone's contract. This should have been a #1 question for Pagano.

[ztboiler]

I was just thinking the same about Pagano's illness having an impact.

 

But to your larger point, it could be that Pagano turning down the one year offer had more to do with his role than we realized. Rather than taking his ball and going home, he could have decided to let it play out. He's said that he doesn't plan to coach if he's not with the Colts, but maybe that's posturing. Maybe he didn't want to commit himself to a troublesome situation, knowing that with his record, he'd have other opportunities if push came to shove. 

 

And he will. Lots of NFL and college opportunities have opened up, including the Hurricanes. Pagano is nothing if not a great recruiter. College might be perfect for him.

Yes, the contract scuttlebutt could absolutely be Pagano's way of saying I won't go forward in this role the way it is, just as it seems to be Irsay and Grigson's way of saying that we are unconvinced that you can take us where we want to go.  

 

What makes no sense to me is the assumption by many that Pagano is purely a victim rather than part of a two way street.

[ztboiler]

The type of coach that believes in working through his contract and feels thankful to an organization that stuck with him during a very important and potentially tragic time in his life.

 

Perhaps that is why the colts made a joke of an extension offer... perhaps Pagano told them he would reject any offer that didn't give him control over who plays on game day.

 

The type of coach that believes in working through his contract and feels thankful to an organization that stuck with him during a very important and potentially tragic time in his life.

 

Perhaps that is why the colts made a joke of an extension offer... perhaps Pagano told them he would reject any offer that didn't give him control over who plays on game day.

 

A head coach owes it to himself, his staff and his team to grab control over who plays on gameday since it is very much implied by the definition of the role.  If he doesn't have that authority then he's not being subverted, he's not really the coach.

[Vinatieri4]

Please see the article for my source. It states in the article players would come to Chuck with suggestions, and they would give the answer "we can't do that because we don't have the power to." 

 

It's never been Chuck. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000574231/article/report-chuck-pagano-forced-into-lineup-decisions

[TKnight24]

So basically another "Blame Grigson" thread?

[Coltsman1788]

This has been discussed at length starting a couple of days ago in another thread based on the Doyle article in the Indy Star.  This thread will probably be closed or merged with that one...but yeah basically Grigson  is a control freak and has essentially reduced Pagano into a faux coach.

[DougDew]

Hmmm. I sense a string of a lot of dumb posts starting.

[BProland85]

Yeah Grigson needs to go. And Irsay needs to let his coaches do their jobs.

[jvan1973]

There is a very long thread already talking about this.

I'll just say there is plenty of blame to go around

[Vinatieri4]

This isn't a blame Grigson thread. Why do people on forum's get so worked up sometimes over something that as posted? lol

[Dustin]

Grigson sucks.

[Colts_Fan12]

Grigson sucks.

just need to can EVERYONE and move on

[YourNextGM]

Why doesn't Chuck get blame for being weak. What other coach would agree to this?

[K-148]

So it was Grigson who made our OL Top-10 pass blocking unit, not Chuck?

[jvan1973]

So it was Grigson who made our OL Top-10 pass blocking unit, not Chuck?

Yeah, that's not the case. I don't care what pff has them ranked