Report: Colts held players-only meeting as front office tension continues

[austriancolt]

He really wasn't playing very well, He missed multiple line calls...He is also sitting on the bench in Arizona

 

Gavin I really respect you and it was always a pleasure to read your opinion but sometimes you sound like a Grigson fanboy. While Shipley wasn't a hall of famer, he was better than Harrison and Holmes at this time.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not a Grigson hater I just think he is not as good as some believe he is. He made some good decisions but also some bad ones. With so many reports confirming that he has way too much control that's just not a good sign. And you won't get an official statement from the Colts that will confirm some very unpleasant facts... 

[csmopar]

I will start by saying that my response is based on assuming this is all true....

With that being said, this really makes me angry as a fan. Who knows how much better we could have been had the coaches been allowed to play the people they felt were the best fit. We may have one the SB by now. It could also be said that we could have done worse but I would take the opinion of the coaches who are with the players every practice over that of the front office.

Maybe canning Grigson isn't enough. Perhaps Irsay should just turn operations over to his daughter. It appears that his judgment is impaired if he is allowing this implosion to happen. It's now clear to everyone that Grigson is the common denominator here.

 

 

Time out:

 

First: I thought his daughter was already running day to day operations and had been since his arrest for the pills?

 

Second: If so, could explain Grigson's sudden power over everything because of the rumored romantic relationship between the daughter and Grigson

 

Third: The firing could be Irsay finally taking the reins back over, assuming 1 and 2 are correct

[Mameluc]

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2015/11/05/indianapolis-colts-team-meeting-chuck-pagano/75248720/

 

Why go to SB when Holder has the actual article? And because of the portion quoted below, this article has teeth. Much more than anything else that has been reported about this staff.

 

 

That's not good.

 

The article is written in such a way that I don't think Holder's sources are players, but rather 'NFL sources' who claim to have heard this from Colts players. Either way, this story is going round and round, and if it's true that this meeting was last week -- before the Panthers game, and before Pep was fired -- then it calls into question the effectiveness of this kind of leadership.

 

No question Pep needed to go. If it's true that he was Grigson's guy, then the fact that he's now gone might be a sign that Grigson's authority is reduced from what it was previously. 

Or Grigson trying to save his job (along with Pagano)

[Mameluc]

I'd personally like a detailed account of the changes in who plays and who sits Grigson is accused of making

I read somewhere Lance LOuis Herremans starting was his call. Also Mewhort to RT

[Superman]

Gavin I really respect you and it was always a pleasure to read your opinion but sometimes you sound like a Grigson fanboy. While Shipley wasn't a hall of famer, he was better than Harrison and Holmes at this time.

Don't get me wrong I'm not a Grigson hater I just think he is not as good as some believe he is. He made some good decisions but also some bad ones. With so many reports confirming that he has way too much control that's just not a good sign. And you won't get an official statement from the Colts that will confirm some very unpleasant facts...

Shipley really wasn't good. Whoever's decision it was to move on from him, it wasn't the disaster everyone made it out to be.

[Superman]

Time out:

First: I thought his daughter was already running day to day operations and had been since his arrest for the pills?

Second: If so, could explain Grigson's sudden power over everything because of the rumored romantic relationship between the daughter and Grigson

Third: The firing could be Irsay finally taking the reins back over, assuming 1 and 2 are correct

There's no romantic relationship between Grigson and any of the Irsay girls.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

Richardson is an obvious won. He never got better week to week either so it's not like the "showing progress" excuse was applicable. He remained in the lineup until the infamous "healthy scratch" incident.

Nicks might be another example too. Moncrief was clearly better by mid season last season,

Lol I see what you did there

[ztboiler]

Thanks for posting the link Superman.

 

This goes to a comment I made a week or so ago.  Assuming the items mentioned in Holder's article are true, no coach worth his salt is going to come to Indy... nor should they, to carry on with Parcells cooking analogy, not only is he not being allowed to buy the ingredients, but he is also being told what kitchen utensils to use and in what order the ingredients need to be mixed in.

 

Perhaps that is Grigson's plan.  perhaps after this season Grigs wants to install himself as the HC (that is just speculation on my part).

If the case against Grigson as one who is delving into what should be coaching decisions - is seen as firming up with these reports (not saying it is), why are we not spending as much or more time on the question of "What coach worth his salt sets there and takes it while trudging along as a puppet"?  Especially a coach with 3 seasons of 11-5 in tow and 3 playoff wins?

 

From my point of view, if Grigson has wrestled coaching decision authority away from Pagano, in what is designed as a complementary shared power relationship, then that is more condemning of Pagano than it is of Grigson.  Pagano shouldn't be painted as some kind of victim here.  If you don't have enough clout to keep your authority in this business then it rightly goes to those who do.  That may seem a little bit harsh, and I only say it that way for effect, but the principle needs a little room to breathe before everybody assigns roles of villain and victim.

 

In fairness to Grigson, Irsay and Pagano, this whole thing is muddled by circumstance.  Pagano was sick, roles had to change.  Sometimes things are never quite the same after that.

[csmopar]

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2015/11/05/indianapolis-colts-team-meeting-chuck-pagano/75248720/

 

Why go to SB when Holder has the actual article? And because of the portion quoted below, this article has teeth. Much more than anything else that has been reported about this staff.

 

 

That's not good.

 

The article is written in such a way that I don't think Holder's sources are players, but rather 'NFL sources' who claim to have heard this from Colts players. Either way, this story is going round and round, and if it's true that this meeting was last week -- before the Panthers game, and before Pep was fired -- then it calls into question the effectiveness of this kind of leadership.

 

No question Pep needed to go. If it's true that he was Grigson's guy, then the fact that he's now gone might be a sign that Grigson's authority is reduced from what it was previously. 

 

 

We need a guy with leadership abilities....A guy that wont let this crap get out of control.....A guy named......Reggie.....Reggie Wayne.  Go sign his butt and get him back here if only to get this leadership or lack thereof under control

[csmopar]

There's no romantic relationship between Grigson and any of the Irsay girls.

 

 

There's been reports of dating between Grigson and Irsay's daughter...

[GoColts8818]

Why would Jimmy not meddle? It's his team. 

You don't want your owner deciding who should be and who shouldn't be playing.  That was the report yesterday on the radio.  For years this franchise had an Owner who would do that and those were the days when 9-7 was a great season.  The one time they had major extended success under the Irsay family is when Jim removed himself from the process and let Polian pretty much run things.  That's what successful owners do, they let the people they hired do the jobs they were hired for. 

[GoColts8818]

At this point Irsay should be sticking his nose into what has been going on, actually long overdue. I am only surprised/disappointed if the reports are true that Irsay allowed Grigson to be micro-managing the coaches.

Irsay should not be making calls on who should play and who shouldn't play.  He tried that once.  The result was a lot of 4-12, 3-13, and yes even a 1-15 seasons.  That's the point here the report I heard yesterday is that it's not just Grigson micro-managing the coaches it's also the Owner, which tells me some of Grigson mico-managing might be being directed at him from the Owner. 

[Jason_]

There's been reports of dating between Grigson and Irsay's daughter...

 

source?

[Cynjin]

Irsay should not be making calls on who should play and who shouldn't play.  He tried that once.  The result was a lot of 4-12, 3-13, and yes even a 1-15 seasons.  That's the point here the report I heard yesterday is that it's not just Grigson micro-managing the coaches it's also the Owner, which tells me some of Grigson mico-managing might be being directed at him from the Owner.

Got it, I agree that neither Grigson or Irsay should be making those decisions. I misinterpreted your post.

[RollerColt]

There's been reports of dating between Grigson and Irsay's daughter...

Wha?

 

I've never heard anything of the like... Jeeze that would sure complicate matters wouldn't it?

[PeterBowman]

Wha?

 

I've never heard anything of the like... Jeeze that would sure complicate matters wouldn't it?

besides, isn't Grigson married?

[csmopar]

source?

It's been a couple weeks since I heard it, I'll find the link.  It was on nbcsports if I recall right

[csmopar]

besides, isn't Grigson married?

Has that stopped men or women before.....

[Colt^2]

Now there's a report from NFL.com and BR saying Pagano has been forced into lineup decisions... Good lord. At this point I'm not even sure what to believe honestly.

[Flash7]

Here is Grigson's history before the Colts:

Playing career[edit] College[edit]

Grigson played college football for the Purdue Boilermakers from 1991–1994.^[1] On October 10, 1992 in a game against Minnesota, Grigson was hit in the stomach by a defender and developed a kidney ailment. He was hospitalized immediately after and missed the rest of the season.^[2][3] Grigson returned for the 1993 season and was named one of three captains, along with Mike Alstott and Matt Kingsbury, for the 1994 season (Purdue's first winning season in a decade).^[4]

Professional[edit]

Grigson was drafted by the Cincinnati Bengals in the sixth round (175th overall) of the 1995 NFL Draft. He was signed to a contract by the Bengals on June 10, 1995, but was waived during final cuts on August 28. He was signed by the Detroit Lions shortly thereafter and spent the 1995 season with the team. He was released by the Lions on August 14, 1996.^[5] He played for the Toronto Argonauts of the Canadian Football League in 1997 before he suffered a career-ending back injury and was forced to retire.^[1]

Executive and coaching career[edit] Early career[edit]

Following his retirement from playing, Grigson became a pro scout for the Saskatchewan Roughriders in 1998. In the same year, he was an assistant coach for McPherson College's football team. In 1999, he was a player personnel coordinator and assistant coach for the Buffalo Destroyers of the Arena Football League.^[1]

National Football League[edit]

Grigson was hired by the St. Louis Rams as a national scout in 1999. He was part of the Rams' Super Bowl XXXIV championship team in 1999 and the Rams' NFC Championship/Super Bowl XXXVI team in 2001 as an area scout.

On May 15, 2004, Grigson was hired by the Philadelphia Eagles as a western regional scout. He was a part of the Eagles' NFC Championship/Super Bowl XXXIX team in 2004. On June 8, 2006, he was promoted to director of college scouting,^[1] and on February 3, 2010, he was promoted to director of player personnel.^[6]

 

 

^​

 

 

It really hurts to take a look at who exactly we hired to be our GM...  His playing career in the NFL was short lived.  Drafted in the 6th, cut before the season started, and then picked up for one year as a deep backup.  He was then waived from that team also and joined the ​CFL where he was injured and forced to retire. 

PLAYER GRADE = F

 

So he wasn't a very good player, maybe he was a good lower level coach or something before we picked him to be our GM.  Lets see....

He was a ​​scout for a CFL team, assistant coach for a liberal arts college, and a player personnel coordinator for an arena league team.

He was a scout for the Rams and Eagles.  He put together the epic fail of a "Dream Team" in Philly.

NFL COACHING/PERSONNEL EXPERIENCE = D

 

What in the hell were we thinking hiring someone so freaking inexperienced to be the leader of our front office?????????????????????? 

 

​

 

​

Kyle, thanks for the info. However, respectfully, I find your conclusion a little off base.

 

Here's why: Not all GMs have experience playing football at high levels, whether in college or the NFL. Grigson has both college and NFL experience -- so that should be a plus as a GM, yet you gave him a player grade of an F. That's fine, if graded just as a player, which it appears that you have. 

 

When looking at his career history, it's fairly clear that he worked his way up the ranks, starting out in the CFL and then into the NFL. When he was working in the NFL, he worked for championship organizations (and I assume he hand in their success, as small as it may have been). Yet, you only point out that he was part of the "Dream Team" fiasco. This isn't an objective view of his career, in my opinion. If we only look for the bad and ignore the good, we are not evaluating him fairly.

 

I am not a Grigson basher or supporter at this point, but I do want to formulate my opinion of him based on his performance while with the Colts, and try to keep an objective point of view.

[Kyle]

Have the Colts won a single game that they completely manhandled a team in the last 3 years???  i don't feel like looking it up but I can't remember a single one.  We have had lots of comebacks, and have had decent leads that almost slip away but we still win.  But who have we beat in the way that the Pats, Steelers, Rams, and Saints have beat us?  

 

We have been a good team that beats bad teams and can sometimes pull out a win when we shouldn't.... But we need to be able to beat the bricks off lesser teams and we just plain don't.

[ProblChld32]

Probably to tell luck to get his ish under control and stop forcing throws...and involve gore and bradshaw more ! 

 

involving gore and bradshaw isnt a players thing thats a coach thing.

[Flash7]

Have the Colts won a single game that they completely manhandled a team in the last 3 years???  i don't feel like looking it up but I can't remember a single one.  We have had lots of comebacks, and have had decent leads that almost slip away but we still win.  But who have we beat in the way that the Pats, Steelers, Rams, and Saints have beat us?  

 

We have been a good team that beats bad teams and can sometimes pull out a win when we shouldn't.... But we need to be able to beat the bricks off lesser teams and we just plain don't.

Here's what I recall.

2014: 

Colts 44 - Jags 17

Colts 41 - Titans 17

Colts 27 - Bengals 0

Colts 49 - Washington 27

Colts 23 - Jags 3

[PeterBowman]

Here's what I recall.

2014:

Colts 44 - Jags 17

Colts 41 - Titans 17

Colts 27 - Bengals 0

Colts 49 - Washington 27

Colts 23 - Jags 3

Heck id even throw in the Denver playoff game last...defensively they manhandled Denver.

[will426]

Here's what I recall.

2014:

Colts 44 - Jags 17

Colts 41 - Titans 17

Colts 27 - Bengals 0

Colts 49 - Washington 27

Colts 23 - Jags 3

lol and besides the bengals none of those teams are good but I assume we're suppose to do that vs those teams anyway

[Flash7]

lol and besides the bengals none of those teams are good but I assume we're suppose to do that vs those teams anyway

Yeah, I agree, but it's a good sign that we did put a beat down on the teams that we were supposed to beat down. 

[jvan1973]

It's been a couple weeks since I heard it, I'll find the link. It was on nbcsports if I recall right

Yeah, I think you had a dream about this.

[Coltsman1788]

I'd personally like a detailed account of the changes in who plays and who sits Grigson is accused of making

Join the club.  Good luck getting it.

[NewColtsFan]

Grigson has had ample time to get protection for Luck.

Luck is still paranoid it seems.

If Grigson is not letting Pagano coach, he needs to either be fired or fire Grigson.

 

For Luck to be "STILL" paranoid,  that would mean he's been paranoid for some time.

 

When did this happen?      You writing it here is the first mention of it that I've seen on this website.

 

I don't pretend to have read everything,   but I haven't seen it anywhere else except your post.

 

Paranoid?     Really?       You sure that's the word you want?

[Coffeedrinker]

If the case against Grigson as one who is delving into what should be coaching decisions - is seen as firming up with these reports (not saying it is), why are we not spending as much or more time on the question of "What coach worth his salt sets there and takes it while trudging along as a puppet"?  Especially a coach with 3 seasons of 11-5 in tow and 3 playoff wins?

 

From my point of view, if Grigson has wrestled coaching decision authority away from Pagano, in what is designed as a complementary shared power relationship, then that is more condemning of Pagano than it is of Grigson.  Pagano shouldn't be painted as some kind of victim here.  If you don't have enough clout to keep your authority in this business then it rightly goes to those who do.  That may seem a little bit harsh, and I only say it that way for effect, but the principle needs a little room to breathe before everybody assigns roles of villain and victim.

 

In fairness to Grigson, Irsay and Pagano, this whole thing is muddled by circumstance.  Pagano was sick, roles had to change.  Sometimes things are never quite the same after that.

The type of coach that believes in working through his contract and feels thankful to an organization that stuck with him during a very important and potentially tragic time in his life.

 

Perhaps that is why the colts made a joke of an extension offer... perhaps Pagano told them he would reject any offer that didn't give him control over who plays on game day.

[Jason_]

involving gore and bradshaw isnt a players thing thats a coach thing.

 

Well, when Luck is the one actually choosing what play to run at the LOS, then it's also a Luck thing.  

[Superman]

If the case against Grigson as one who is delving into what should be coaching decisions - is seen as firming up with these reports (not saying it is), why are we not spending as much or more time on the question of "What coach worth his salt sets there and takes it while trudging along as a puppet"?  Especially a coach with 3 seasons of 11-5 in tow and 3 playoff wins?

 

From my point of view, if Grigson has wrestled coaching decision authority away from Pagano, in what is designed as a complementary shared power relationship, then that is more condemning of Pagano than it is of Grigson.  Pagano shouldn't be painted as some kind of victim here.  If you don't have enough clout to keep your authority in this business then it rightly goes to those who do.  That may seem a little bit harsh, and I only say it that way for effect, but the principle needs a little room to breathe before everybody assigns roles of villain and victim.

 

In fairness to Grigson, Irsay and Pagano, this whole thing is muddled by circumstance.  Pagano was sick, roles had to change.  Sometimes things are never quite the same after that.

 

I was just thinking the same about Pagano's illness having an impact.

 

But to your larger point, it could be that Pagano turning down the one year offer had more to do with his role than we realized. Rather than taking his ball and going home, he could have decided to let it play out. He's said that he doesn't plan to coach if he's not with the Colts, but maybe that's posturing. Maybe he didn't want to commit himself to a troublesome situation, knowing that with his record, he'd have other opportunities if push came to shove. 

 

And he will. Lots of NFL and college opportunities have opened up, including the Hurricanes. Pagano is nothing if not a great recruiter. College might be perfect for him.

[Coffeedrinker]

There's been reports of dating between Grigson and Irsay's daughter...

There has not been any reports.  One, someone would have posted it on this site and two, any time this conversation came up(which is 50% of the threads over the past three or four weeks, (Grigson and power) someone would have been mentioning that.

 

Not to mention that he is married and the only Irsay daughter that is not married is about half his age and completely out of his league.

[RockThatBlue]

Colts organization is a complete mess. Pagano is still a poor coach, but apparently he isn't able to do aspects of his job because of Grigson. What a mess.

[will426]

Yeah, I agree, but it's a good sign that we did put a beat down on the teams that we were supposed to beat down.

yeah bc those teams are nearly beating us this year. I think the only real competition is the jags this year..but we could've competed with anyone this year with our defense it's the offense who has made us look like trash

[Superman]

There's been reports of dating between Grigson and Irsay's daughter...

 

You're gonna have to provide a link.

 

I read that Grigson had a good relationship with the Irsay family. But nothing of a romantic relationship.

 

Grigson is married, with six kids.

 

Irsay's oldest daughter, Carlie, is married. She's the one that's been most involved with Colts management, including representing the team at owners' meetings in 2014 when Irsay was unavailable. Grigson commented on working with her during that time, and spoke approvingly of her. Presumably, when people say that Grigson has a good relationship with one of Irsay's daughters, it's Carlie they're talking about.

 

Casey, the second oldest, is also married.

 

The youngest is Kalen, and I don't think she's married. But she graduated from college in 2010, which suggests she's in her mid 20s.

 

None of this means that Grigson can't be 'involved' with one of Irsay's daughters. But for obvious reasons, that's a pretty significant claim to make, and one should think carefully about it before making it. 

[Superman]

We need a guy with leadership abilities....A guy that wont let this crap get out of control.....A guy named......Reggie.....Reggie Wayne.  Go sign his butt and get him back here if only to get this leadership or lack thereof under control

 

No thank you, but Reggie probably would have been a good stabilizing force this season. He's definitely done as a player, though.

[Detectacon]

Time out:

 

First: I thought his daughter was already running day to day operations and had been since his arrest for the pills?

 

Second: If so, could explain Grigson's sudden power over everything because of the rumored romantic relationship between the daughter and Grigson

 

Third: The firing could be Irsay finally taking the reins back over, assuming 1 and 2 are correct

 

 

1: I am not talking about her running the day to day company stuff. I am talking about her running everything.

3: I concede that this is possible.

 

2: This is the first I am hearing of a possible romantic relationship. Where have you learned this information?

[Flash7]

yeah bc those teams are nearly beating us this year. I think the only real competition is the jags this year..but we could've competed with anyone this year with our defense it's the offense who has made us look like trash

This year has been worrisome. And to me, it all rests on Luck's shoulders. He has been playing really, really bad. If he wasn't Andrew Luck, with his resume over the past 3 years, he would've been benched, merited solely by his play on the field this year. But, we've all seen what he is capable of and that's why we still have hope for this season. As Luck goes, the Colts go.

[cbear]

Since it came from Holder and he sites multiple sources/players, i tend to think this is true.  If it came just from Wilson, that would be another story.